Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Tony, cc questions@ I also hear PostgreSQLhttp://www.postgresql.org/is planning to sue FreeBSD for stealing its design. URLs please. I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on Helveticahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkoX0pEwSCw. Requires Flash. 3rd party commercial binary. No source, no security, no view. it'll remain as current now as it will be a hundred years from now The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. Storms of a century come every 10 ;-) FreeBSD has had it's 'new' front page since the SoC student mangler of 2005. I preferred the older one: http://berklix.org/freebsd.org/ All, Please remember when starting threads on freebsd-questions@freebsd.org questions@ is Not for any topic about FreeBSD. There are 50+ other list @freebsd.org themed to interests, see: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo in this case: freebsd-advoc...@freebsd.org or freebsd-...@freebsd.org Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, indent with . Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Julian H. Stacey wrote [2012-04-13 13:13+0200]: The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. 13. Not for all, though. --steffen Forza Figa! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Hi, On Friday 13 April 2012 18:44:07 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso wrote: Julian H. Stacey wrote [2012-04-13 13:13+0200]: The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. 13. Not for all, though. 1945 - 1933 gives 12. Do I have to start a calculator now? Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Erich Dollansky Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:12 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Julian H. Stacey; Tony; Steffen Daode Nurpmeso Subject: Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity Hi, On Friday 13 April 2012 18:44:07 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso wrote: Julian H. Stacey wrote [2012-04-13 13:13+0200]: The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. 13. Not for all, though. 1945 - 1933 gives 12. Do I have to start a calculator now? Its 13 INCLUSIVE. You're calculating exclusive ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. Do I have to start a calculator now? Once i went to Dachau with my school year in the mid-eighties our guide collected us (all) in a small, low-ceilinged room with a quadratic hole in the thick ceiling and spoke from conviction: Hier wurden keine Juden vergast! (No jews were gassed here!) Then he opened the next thick door and we had a short look into the crematorium. (All inclusive was the walk back to the main building and the film with all those pictures which should be well known.) On the other hand there is one picture left which shows the house where my grandmother lived and it shows a hole in the roof. The bomb fell through the sleeping room, passed the ceiling to the first floor and also damaged the ceiling of the cellar in which my grandmother and my two year old dad were searching for shelter. Like that, they suffered only minor splinter injuries. (Our hometown was bombed/burned only one night. Unless you count the camp in which the americans put away some people for some time after the war.) Point taken :-) Yup. --steffen Forza Figa! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Once i went to Dachau with my school year in the mid-eighties our ( Happened to interest me, as I happen to live nearish, into history), But to avoid being off remit for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions I set Reply-to: c...@freebsd.org http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat Please all take a look at http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo to know what lists are available for different FreeBSD tech topics. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, indent with . Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Friday 13 April 2012 20:56:35 Sean Cavanaugh wrote: Hi, -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Erich Dollansky Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:12 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Julian H. Stacey; Tony; Steffen Daode Nurpmeso Subject: Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity Hi, On Friday 13 April 2012 18:44:07 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso wrote: Julian H. Stacey wrote [2012-04-13 13:13+0200]: The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. 13. Not for all, though. 1945 - 1933 gives 12. Do I have to start a calculator now? Its 13 INCLUSIVE. You're calculating exclusive it also fits better to today's date. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:59:41 +0700, Erich Dollansky wrote: On Friday 13 April 2012 20:56:35 Sean Cavanaugh wrote: Hi, -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Erich Dollansky Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:12 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Julian H. Stacey; Tony; Steffen Daode Nurpmeso Subject: Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity Hi, On Friday 13 April 2012 18:44:07 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso wrote: Julian H. Stacey wrote [2012-04-13 13:13+0200]: The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. 13. Not for all, though. 1945 - 1933 gives 12. Do I have to start a calculator now? Its 13 INCLUSIVE. You're calculating exclusive it also fits better to today's date. Fits even better next Friday! ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Quoting Sean Cavanaugh millenia2...@hotmail.com: El Snippo 13. Not for all, though. 1945 - 1933 gives 12. Do I have to start a calculator now? Its 13 INCLUSIVE. You're calculating exclusive All i'm saying is, Iron Sky. :D Mike Woods Full of squishy cynicism ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Hi, On Friday 13 April 2012 23:37:16 Polytropon wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:59:41 +0700, Erich Dollansky wrote: On Friday 13 April 2012 20:56:35 Sean Cavanaugh wrote: -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Erich Dollansky Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:12 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Julian H. Stacey; Tony; Steffen Daode Nurpmeso Subject: Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity On Friday 13 April 2012 18:44:07 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso wrote: Julian H. Stacey wrote [2012-04-13 13:13+0200]: The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. 13. Not for all, though. 1945 - 1933 gives 12. Do I have to start a calculator now? Its 13 INCLUSIVE. You're calculating exclusive it also fits better to today's date. Fits even better next Friday! ;-) oh, yeah, the big birthday bash. Is it organised via facebook? Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:49:40 +0700, Erich Dollansky wrote: Hi, On Friday 13 April 2012 23:37:16 Polytropon wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:59:41 +0700, Erich Dollansky wrote: On Friday 13 April 2012 20:56:35 Sean Cavanaugh wrote: -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Erich Dollansky Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:12 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Julian H. Stacey; Tony; Steffen Daode Nurpmeso Subject: Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity On Friday 13 April 2012 18:44:07 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso wrote: Julian H. Stacey wrote [2012-04-13 13:13+0200]: The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. 13. Not for all, though. 1945 - 1933 gives 12. Do I have to start a calculator now? Its 13 INCLUSIVE. You're calculating exclusive it also fits better to today's date. Fits even better next Friday! ;-) oh, yeah, the big birthday bash. Is it organised via facebook? Who with a sane mind would press his face into a book? :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Apr 13, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:49:40 +0700, Erich Dollansky wrote: Hi, On Friday 13 April 2012 23:37:16 Polytropon wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:59:41 +0700, Erich Dollansky wrote: On Friday 13 April 2012 20:56:35 Sean Cavanaugh wrote: -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Erich Dollansky Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:12 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Julian H. Stacey; Tony; Steffen Daode Nurpmeso Subject: Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity On Friday 13 April 2012 18:44:07 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso wrote: Julian H. Stacey wrote [2012-04-13 13:13+0200]: The 1000 year Reich lasted 6. 13. Not for all, though. 1945 - 1933 gives 12. Do I have to start a calculator now? Its 13 INCLUSIVE. You're calculating exclusive it also fits better to today's date. Fits even better next Friday! ;-) oh, yeah, the big birthday bash. Is it organised via facebook? Who with a sane mind would press his face into a book? :-) Certainly _not_ Gutenberg (considering the size of his press, OUCH!!) ;-) -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Hi, On Saturday 14 April 2012 07:54:40 Polytropon wrote: Its 13 INCLUSIVE. You're calculating exclusive it also fits better to today's date. Fits even better next Friday! ;-) oh, yeah, the big birthday bash. Is it organised via facebook? Who with a sane mind would press his face into a book? :-) maybe the same people who wait for next week's big birthday bash? Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:29:42 +1000, Da Rock wrote: On 04/10/12 21:32, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Mark Felderf...@feld.me wrote: Python on Planes is the future, mn. Shouldn't that be spelled plains, as in the places where the snake-containing grass grows? :-) Ha! One would think so, but with ruby on rails one would think that python on plains wouldn't sound anywhere near as exciting or appear too quick. That and a shaded reference to a certain similarly titled movie with Samuel L Jackson- corny! :D Should we modernize programming languages by putting them on something? Like awk on a anchor, C on a chimney or Java on Jambalaya? :-) Sather on sabattical? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Tony ableton...@gmail.com wrote: The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more forced than well thought out. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) that might look cool the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like what the hell *is* that thing anyway? (...) Last time, a redesign brought us the sex toy logo to appease the anti-Beastie fraction. So, please, not again. Let's concentrate on improving FreeBSD itself. There's more than enough work to do in this department before we even consider letting ourselves be distracted by design issues again. Thank you, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:29:42 +1000, Da Rock wrote: On 04/10/12 21:32, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Mark Felderf...@feld.me wrote: Python on Planes is the future, mn. Shouldn't that be spelled plains, as in the places where the snake-containing grass grows? :-) Ha! One would think so, but with ruby on rails one would think that python on plains wouldn't sound anywhere near as exciting or appear too quick. That and a shaded reference to a certain similarly titled movie with Samuel L Jackson- corny! :D Should we modernize programming languages by putting them on something? Like awk on a anchor, C on a chimney or Java on Jambalaya? :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Mon Apr 9 23:40:07 2012 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 04:32:09 -0700 From: per...@pluto.rain.com To: f...@feld.me Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity Mark Felder f...@feld.me wrote: Python on Planes is the future, mn. Shouldn't that be spelled plains, as in the places where the snake-containing grass grows? Nay. As written, it describes a problem in wood-shop tool-storage. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Sun, Apr 08, 2012 at 10:16:49AM -0700, Devin Teske wrote: On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:40 AM, Tony wrote: http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ It's like a punch-line almost. I admit to enjoying the Helvetica Trailer video linked-to above. I even admit to liking the proposed motto's. But I disagree with any sentiment that designcouncil.org.uk embodies the same clean lines and well-thought-out design that is being encouraged here. Most egregious is the mishmash of serif with sans-serif and misaligned content areas. I thought maybe you were just being snarky here, but then I took a look at the site. I actually had a minimal education in design, once upon a time, and the first thing I think when I see the Design Council site is Was that thing designed by children? It is nothing like what Tony suggests would be a good approach to the design of the FreeBSD site, which is actually a good recommendation for the design he suggests for the FreeBSD site. Gawd, it's comically bad for something called the Design Council, unless you take the name as an ironic reference to the idea that design by committee is a horrible idea. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 14:40:12 +0200, Tony wrote: As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate identity. What's wrong with it? It's very accessible (especially for blind users) and it presents the availabe information in a structured way. Sure, it does not use many of today's modern extensions to get simple things done, as it uses _simple_ things to get them done (e. g. a href= for a link istead of Flash), but that's not a problem in my opinion. The pages load fast, they display well in all four major browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera), and it even renders properly in browsers with limited abilities (lynx, links, w3m, dillo). Actually the site does not display well in all four major browsers in general: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=91539 It might work with your browser configuration but it fails with others. And while it might (or might not) be accessible for blind users, visually impaired users run into problems if they increase the browser's default font size. Fabian signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Sun, Apr 08, 2012 at 02:40:12PM +0200, Tony wrote: Hello! As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look at over and over without getting annoyed. Whereas there are a few small things I could see improved in the FreeBSD website, generally, it is functional and does what it is supposed to do; provide information about FreeBSD for people looking for information. It is not there to be wallpaper for someones desktop. The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more forced than well thought out. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) that might look cool the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like what the hell *is* that thing anyway? (ref: Tres Logoshttp://www.amazon.com/Tres-Logos-Robert-Klanten/dp/3899552679/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1332777820sr=8-1 Don't see anything useful there. As far as the sextoy logo, can't say that I like it, but Where is anything better? ) Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual education in design http://www.royalacademy.org.uk/. There is no natural flow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow and the whole thing just comes off as corny http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=corny - and this makes us all look bad. I also hear PostgreSQLhttp://www.postgresql.org/is planning to sue FreeBSD for stealing its design. The FreeBSD site heirarchy of information leading to further information is a bit ragged in places, but show us something better. The Royal Academy front page is not too bad of a website home page, but isn't really appropriate to FreeBSD. FreeBSD is a serious working project, not some bling bling sales site. I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on Helveticahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkoX0pEwSCw. No devil logo, no bells and whistles, just straight forward FreeBSD - the world's best operating system. So simple that hardly anything it will go out of fashion and need to be replaced, so simple that it'll remain as current now as it will be a hundred years from now. There was nothing there. The site didn't work. Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. I looked at the URLs that you include and saw nothing that made any sense relative to FreeBSD. The socalled 'design council' page made one of the cardinal errors in web page design by making it a fixed width beyond the browser window's size. It subverts browser reflow. I hate that. It abuses the whole sysem and makes it hard for people so hav a desktop layout the way they want/need. eg, it trashes the page. So, come up with some actually good design before you next barf all over the list. Then, maybe someone will incorporate some of the worthwhile ideas. jerry Tony http://siegelgale.com/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Hi all! Thanks everyone for all the feedback - it has been most helpful! Just to clarify, Siegel+Gale and the UK Design Council are just the places where I work. I should have taken them out of my signature to avoid confusion, my bad. I will start work on a major Rails-basedhttp://rubyonrails.org/screencasts/rails3redesign for FreeBSD. I really liked Mikkel's suggestion of going back to the old designhttp://web.archive.org/web/20030727123044/http://www2.freebsd.org/and take it from there, so that's what I will be doing. It might take a couple of months though. Tony http://siegelgale.com/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Jerry McAllister jerr...@msu.edu wrote: On Sun, Apr 08, 2012 at 02:40:12PM +0200, Tony wrote: Hello! As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look at over and over without getting annoyed. Whereas there are a few small things I could see improved in the FreeBSD website, generally, it is functional and does what it is supposed to do; provide information about FreeBSD for people looking for information. It is not there to be wallpaper for someones desktop. The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more forced than well thought out. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) that might look cool the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like what the hell *is* that thing anyway? (ref: Tres Logos http://www.amazon.com/Tres-Logos-Robert-Klanten/dp/3899552679/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1332777820sr=8-1 Don't see anything useful there. As far as the sextoy logo, can't say that I like it, but Where is anything better? ) Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual education in design http://www.royalacademy.org.uk/. There is no natural flow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow and the whole thing just comes off as corny http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=corny - and this makes us all look bad. I also hear PostgreSQLhttp://www.postgresql.org/is planning to sue FreeBSD for stealing its design. The FreeBSD site heirarchy of information leading to further information is a bit ragged in places, but show us something better. The Royal Academy front page is not too bad of a website home page, but isn't really appropriate to FreeBSD. FreeBSD is a serious working project, not some bling bling sales site. I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on Helveticahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkoX0pEwSCw. No devil logo, no bells and whistles, just straight forward FreeBSD - the world's best operating system. So simple that hardly anything it will go out of fashion and need to be replaced, so simple that it'll remain as current now as it will be a hundred years from now. There was nothing there. The site didn't work. Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. I looked at the URLs that you include and saw nothing that made any sense relative to FreeBSD. The socalled 'design council' page made one of the cardinal errors in web page design by making it a fixed width beyond the browser window's size. It subverts browser reflow. I hate that. It abuses the whole sysem and makes it hard for people so hav a desktop layout the way they want/need. eg, it trashes the page. So, come up with some actually good design before you next barf all over the list. Then, maybe someone will incorporate some of the worthwhile ideas. jerry Tony http://siegelgale.com/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:55:07 -0500, Tony ableton...@gmail.com wrote: I will start work on a major Rails-based redesign I'm praying this is a troll. Ruby as a language is so broken, and anyone who has tried to host a Ruby project knows my pain. The only thing you could have said that would set off my troll senses even more is if you suggested PHP on Trax which I think is an attempt at satire. Python on Planes is the future, mn. ~Disgruntled Sysadmin ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Sun, 8 Apr 2012, Tony wrote: Satanic 3D-lookalike logo Satanic logo complaints: Hallmark of retarded trolls -- Lars Eighner http://www.larseighner.com/index.html 8800 N IH35 APT 1191 AUSTIN TX 78753-5266 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Tony ableton...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all! Thanks everyone for all the feedback - it has been most helpful! Just to clarify, Siegel+Gale and the UK Design Council are just the places where I work. I should have taken them out of my signature to avoid confusion, my bad. I will start work on a major Rails-basedhttp://rubyonrails.org/screencasts/rails3redesign for FreeBSD. I really liked Mikkel's suggestion of going back to the old designhttp://web.archive.org/web/20030727123044/http://www2.freebsd.org/and take it from there, so that's what I will be doing. It might take a couple of months though. Whatever you do, make sure: 1) everything works _without_ javascript or relying on color distinctions or 'background images' -- a fair number of people force 'use my colors' rather than letting the server choose. (browsing multiple web-sites is a *lot* less painful on the eyes, when they _all_ display in color combinations *I* find pleasing. *GRIN* ) 2) Make sure *every* 'img ' tag has a meaningful alt=' field. (if it is just a filler/spacer image, _still_ put an 'alt= ' field on it. This explicitly declares that the image has 'no content') 3) Make sure everything passes the validator at http://validator.w3.org with -zero- complaints. 4) Make sure everything 'works' in 'lynx', the text-only browser. see http://lynx.browser.org/ 5) Make sure everything is usable in Firefox, with ALL SCRIPTING DISABLED, *and* then go to 'Tools-Options', the 'Content' tab, change the font size to say, 64 pt; Also click the 'colors' button and *UN-CHECK* the 'allow pages to chose their own colors' box, click 'ok' twice to dismiss the two pop-up windows, and make sure everything displays OK. 6) Try resizing the browser panel -- wide (side-to-side) and short (top- to-bottom), and narrow (side-to-side) and tall (top-to-bottom). Does it work _acceptably_ in a 640x480 window? (why not? There are users out there with VGA-only displays.) *IDEALLY* there should be no need for horizontal scrolling unless the window is -very- narrow (circa 15% of screen width or less). *IDEALLY* the content should expand to fill whatever width there is available (I have a display 1920 pixels wide, the current webpage =refuses= to use more than about 1/2 of it. Get this right, and you show you understand that HTML is -not- a 'page layout' language, That one is merely providing 'hints' for the browser to 'do with as it sees fit'. Web layout *is* a very different discipline from layout for the printed page. Once you have -that- 100% functional with no errors, -then-, and *only* *then* is is appropriate to add *optional* (for the user) 'enhancements' in addition to the basic functionality. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Allow me a few additions: On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:58:43 -0500 (CDT), Robert Bonomi wrote: 2) Make sure *every* 'img ' tag has a meaningful alt=' field. (if it is just a filler/spacer image, _still_ put an 'alt= ' field on it. This explicitly declares that the image has 'no content') And also note the longdesc= parameter to img. It should be used to give a meaningful (!) description of an image's content. 6) Try resizing the browser panel -- wide (side-to-side) and short (top- to-bottom), and narrow (side-to-side) and tall (top-to-bottom). Does it work _acceptably_ in a 640x480 window? (why not? There are users out there with VGA-only displays.) Also note that following this auto-resize approach enables a web page to be used in all its beauty on mobile devices, such as tablets and smartphones. If done right, no separate version is needed there. *IDEALLY* the content should expand to fill whatever width there is available (I have a display 1920 pixels wide, the current webpage =refuses= to use more than about 1/2 of it. Excellent idea for improving. Many web pages could learn from that simple idea. The habit of being optimized for 1024x768 is very annoying, especially if you _have_ a large display where you arrange non-fullscreen windows on. Pages that fail to accomodate to the window's size are very annoying. In fact, they are the majority. Get this right, and you show you understand that HTML is -not- a 'page layout' language, That one is merely providing 'hints' for the browser to 'do with as it sees fit'. Web layout *is* a very different discipline from layout for the printed page. Many web developers seem to be unable to see HTML as a markup language that defines structure (indead of layout). If you want to have pixel-precise 1:1 reproduction, use PDF. With HTML5 (but also applies to HTML4), it's easy to use the HTML tags to define what text _is_ instead of what it should look like. A usable approach is to use CSS for styling, and HTML for content-oriented structural description. That way, from the HTML content one can determine what's a heading, what's a paragraph, what's an address - instead of thinking in terms like this is in bold text or this is underlined text with 18px in 'Comic Sans'. The idea of semantic browsing can be utilized. Once you have -that- 100% functional with no errors, -then-, and *only* *then* is is appropriate to add *optional* (for the user) 'enhancements' in addition to the basic functionality. I think there _is_ potential to improve the FreeBSD website, in layout, content and structure. But it should be done carefully so it doesn't break anytime soon (such as modern web pages do when a new version of some arbitrary extension is out or when the underlying implementation language breaks things due to updates). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Mark Felder f...@feld.me wrote: Python on Planes is the future, mn. Shouldn't that be spelled plains, as in the places where the snake-containing grass grows? :-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On 04/10/12 21:32, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Mark Felderf...@feld.me wrote: Python on Planes is the future, mn. Shouldn't that be spelled plains, as in the places where the snake-containing grass grows? :-) Ha! One would think so, but with ruby on rails one would think that python on plains wouldn't sound anywhere near as exciting or appear too quick. That and a shaded reference to a certain similarly titled movie with Samuel L Jackson- corny! :D ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Hello! As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look at over and over without getting annoyed. The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more forced than well thought out. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) that might look cool the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like what the hell *is* that thing anyway? (ref: Tres Logoshttp://www.amazon.com/Tres-Logos-Robert-Klanten/dp/3899552679/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1332777820sr=8-1 ) Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual education in design http://www.royalacademy.org.uk/. There is no natural flow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow and the whole thing just comes off as corny http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=corny - and this makes us all look bad. I also hear PostgreSQLhttp://www.postgresql.org/is planning to sue FreeBSD for stealing its design. I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on Helveticahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkoX0pEwSCw. No devil logo, no bells and whistles, just straight forward FreeBSD - the world's best operating system. So simple that hardly anything it will go out of fashion and need to be replaced, so simple that it'll remain as current now as it will be a hundred years from now. Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. Tony http://siegelgale.com/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Hi, not again. Erich On Sunday 08 April 2012 19:40:12 Tony wrote: Hello! As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look at over and over without getting annoyed. The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more forced than well thought out. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) that might look cool the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like what the hell *is* that thing anyway? (ref: Tres Logoshttp://www.amazon.com/Tres-Logos-Robert-Klanten/dp/3899552679/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1332777820sr=8-1 ) Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual education in design http://www.royalacademy.org.uk/. There is no natural flow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow and the whole thing just comes off as corny http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=corny - and this makes us all look bad. I also hear PostgreSQLhttp://www.postgresql.org/is planning to sue FreeBSD for stealing its design. I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on Helveticahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkoX0pEwSCw. No devil logo, no bells and whistles, just straight forward FreeBSD - the world's best operating system. So simple that hardly anything it will go out of fashion and need to be replaced, so simple that it'll remain as current now as it will be a hundred years from now. Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. Tony http://siegelgale.com/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
Tony wrote: Hello! As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look at over and over without getting annoyed. Since you seem to know so much about web design WHY don't you create your version for review and maybe acceptance if the community likes it? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:40 AM, Tony wrote: Hello! As much as I love FreeBSD, [snip] I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on Helveticahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkoX0pEwSCw. [snip] Tony [snip] http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ It's like a punch-line almost. I admit to enjoying the Helvetica Trailer video linked-to above. I even admit to liking the proposed motto's. But I disagree with any sentiment that designcouncil.org.uk embodies the same clean lines and well-thought-out design that is being encouraged here. Most egregious is the mishmash of serif with sans-serif and misaligned content areas. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 14:40:12 +0200 Tony wrote: Tony http://siegelgale.com/ The FreeBSD site isn't great, but this site is worse. Has no-one ever pointed-out the irony that the top 20% of the page bangs-on about simplifying, and has a fight bloat on your website link, but the other 80% is a cluttered mess. It also has a pet hate of mine: menus that make the rest of the page move around even when the pointer is just passing-over them. I can forgive the FreeBSD site all its faults for not doing that. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On 04/09/12 07:44, RW wrote: On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 14:40:12 +0200 Tony wrote: Tony http://siegelgale.com/ The FreeBSD site isn't great, but this site is worse. Has no-one ever pointed-out the irony that the top 20% of the page bangs-on about simplifying, and has a fight bloat on your website link, but the other 80% is a cluttered mess. It also has a pet hate of mine: menus that make the rest of the page move around even when the pointer is just passing-over them. I can forgive the FreeBSD site all its faults for not doing that. The FreeBSD site is accessible (as is legal required) and to the point. That is what matters. It provides all the information needed and communicates it exceedingly well. FreeBSD is a no nonsense get the job done without bloat OS: the site communicates that as well, and communication is not just about the words. My 2c. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 01:25:54 +0200 Mikkel Bang wrote: Den 23:44 8. april 2012 skrev RW rwmailli...@googlemail.com følgende: The FreeBSD site isn't great, but this site is worse. Has no-one ever pointed-out the irony that the top 20% of the page bangs-on about simplifying, and has a fight bloat on your website link, but the other 80% is a cluttered mess. It also has a pet hate of mine: menus that make the rest of the page move around even when the pointer is just passing-over them. I can forgive the FreeBSD site all its faults for not doing that. I understand you're trying to stand up for FreeBSD, You understand wrongly. I don't really care about the FreeBSD site. I genuinely think that Siegel+Gale have a substandard website. Take a look at the Royal Academy and Design Council sites he linked - it's not in the same league. but what you're saying makes little sense. Siegel+Gale is one of the world's most respected design agencies. And like, who are you? So what are you saying? - I'm automatically wrong (irrespective of the facts) because they're respected design agency and I'm a nobody - You didn't understand what I wrote. - you disagree with a specific point that you're not bothering to mention Haters gonna hate. I'm not a hater. I'm at most a mocker. In particular I find it amusing that their own website fails to follow the vision that they advocate for other peoples. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On 04/08/2012 05:40 AM, Tony wrote: Hello! As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look at over and over without getting annoyed. The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more forced than well thought out. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) that might look cool the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like what the hell *is* that thing anyway? (ref: Tres Logoshttp://www.amazon.com/Tres-Logos-Robert-Klanten/dp/3899552679/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1332777820sr=8-1 ) Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual education in designhttp://www.royalacademy.org.uk/. There is no natural flowhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow and the whole thing just comes off as cornyhttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=corny - and this makes us all look bad. I also hear PostgreSQLhttp://www.postgresql.org/is planning to sue FreeBSD for stealing its design. I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on Helveticahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkoX0pEwSCw. No devil logo, no bells and whistles, just straight forward FreeBSD - the world's best operating system. So simple that hardly anything it will go out of fashion and need to be replaced, so simple that it'll remain as current now as it will be a hundred years from now. Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. Tony http://siegelgale.com/http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Now your are starting to sound like a troll. get lost ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity
On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 14:40:12 +0200, Tony wrote: Hello! As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate identity. What's wrong with it? It's very accessible (especially for blind users) and it presents the availabe information in a structured way. Sure, it does not use many of today's modern extensions to get simple things done, as it uses _simple_ things to get them done (e. g. a href= for a link istead of Flash), but that's not a problem in my opinion. The pages load fast, they display well in all four major browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera), and it even renders properly in browsers with limited abilities (lynx, links, w3m, dillo). Your next point: Corporate identity. I sadly fail to see where FreeBSD can be seen as a corporation. It's rather a community, having some core installations, but it's not a company that has to maintain a specific design across all its products. However, FreeBSD's projects are consistent regarding naming and logos. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a design that reflects this. In your opinion, what would you consider a good example to imitiate, or at least to consider as a source of inspiration? I don't say design couldn't be improved - but what are _your_ opinions in how it should be done? Can you be more specific? A design that is so neutral and stripped of any unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look at over and over without getting annoyed. Hmmm... I always thought exactly that is what the landing page of the FreeBSD project already is. You're describing the status quo. The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more forced than well thought out. That may be due to the reason that those are different project which are somewhat independent. The home page is a different thing than the documentation (different maintainers, different projects), and the wiki, as well as other sources, are associated projects not governed by the the core team of the FreeBSD project. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) [...] Despite you say the opposite, it's not. :-) [...] that might look cool the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like what the hell *is* that thing anyway? It's a logo, nothing more, nothing less. There are many logos in the corporate world that raise the question of What _is_ this?!, and even in some cases, it cannot be answered because it's _nothing_ (except a graphical exercise). See the logo in that way, and see the mascot. Both of them are not satanic. They have horns, the mascot has a tail. A bull also has horns and a tail. Is it satanic therefore? Would you refuse to eat a steak because it might be satanic as well? (ref: Tres Logoshttp://www.amazon.com/Tres-Logos-Robert-Klanten/dp/3899552679/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1332777820sr=8-1 ) This reference cannot be reviewed for free, so I sadly have to discard it. If you could be more specific on the FreeBSD case, please _be_ more specific. Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual education in design http://www.royalacademy.org.uk/. No, the design caters the _content_. That is the purpose of design aiming at the designated target audience. There is no natural flow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow and the whole thing just comes off as corny http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=corny - and this makes us all look bad. I also hear PostgreSQLhttp://www.postgresql.org/is planning to sue FreeBSD for stealing its design. Let's watch the result of the lawsuit then. :-) I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on Helveticahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkoX0pEwSCw. I don't think you can consider a font being the center of a web design. What if that font isn't even installed? What if a blind user accesses the page? Even though I like the Helvetica font, I believe it's not enough, and even not possible to design around a font. Or am I misunderstanding your intention? No devil logo, [...] There already is no devil logo. [...] no bells and whistles, [...] Fully agreed, and already present. Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. Very good. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
