Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 01:52:04AM -0500, Anonymous wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project to meet its future release dates. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for 9.1-RELEASE to be finalized. I desperately want it as soon as possible for a laptop currently running such a piece of shit OS (Debian -- used to be good, but after half a dozen years away it went significantly downhill) that I'm about ready to pull out my hair. It needs hardware support not available with FreeBSD until now, and I want stable, -RELEASE software on it to suit my needs. Wouldn't stable/9 give you the same results as 9.1Release? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
Hi, On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:21:50 +0100 Matthias Gamsjager mgamsja...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 01:52:04AM -0500, Anonymous wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project to meet its future release dates. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for 9.1-RELEASE to be finalized. I desperately want it as soon as possible for a laptop currently running such a piece of shit OS (Debian -- used to be good, but after half a dozen years away it went significantly downhill) that I'm about ready to pull out my hair. It needs hardware support not available with FreeBSD until now, and I want stable, -RELEASE software on it to suit my needs. Wouldn't stable/9 give you the same results as 9.1Release? I also do not understand this crying here. There are currently 7.4, 8.3 and 9.0 as a RELEASE out. Nobody will stop a user to install the current release candidate for 9.1 or even the 10.0. I would not bother to think a second but take what ever is out there which seems to fit to my hardware and install it. If nothing works, I would have a try with 10. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On topic... We do have these... http://www.freebsd.org/releases/9.1R/schedule.html http://wiki.freebsd.org/Releng/9.1TODO which serve well to illustrate at least a few parts of the problem: - Different dates listed for the same events. - Two different sites/pages for the same type of info. - Neither particularly utilized for/to their purpose (release commits this month not yet noted for the public, blanks in tables) - Ineffective decisions as to which of the two pages to adopt and to delete the other as a waste of commmunity resources and confusion as to which is authoritative. This is not meant to single out 9.1, but the aggregate of all releases, 9..8..7..6... viewed in sliding windows if need be to identify particular problem areas. And whatever 'other stuff' the project needs. A little criticism or kudos now and then is a good thing. I've used FreeBSD fulltime since at at least 10 years, it's that good. Off topic... No we don't. Really? Nothing wrong with this being a survey thread. Go back to posting your pictures of kiddie porn I prefer adults, exclusively. Sorry to disappoint the prurient interests that are clearly on your mind. anonymous. Sure 'illoai', what's your residence address again? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
From: Anonymous anonym...@foto.ro1.torservers.net On topic... More off remit noise (**) Questions@ is for questions, Not an opinion dump. http://www.freebsd.org/releases/9.1R/schedule.html http://wiki.freebsd.org/Releng/9.1TODO (** wiki web could benefit from greater synch., But www wiki doc teams will have better understanding of issues, Anonymous@ should have raised that issue on their lists, not here.) - Different dates listed for the same events. A point, But now's a bad time for this anonymous@ to again try to stir a premature `drains up' while the release is finalising. Release engineers others will presumably later discuss release scheduling etc, after they've got the release out, taken a well deserved rest; Till then best refute critics that could demotivate unpaid hard working release builders. I've used FreeBSD fulltime since at at least 10 years If true, failed to learn http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo has different lists for different topics, in this case doc@ www etc. failed to learn best to send-pr a patch with eg SGML for www wiki. This anonymous@ troll could be blocked. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, like a play script. Indent old text with . Send plain text. Not: HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 01:52:04AM -0500, Anonymous wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project to meet its future release dates. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for 9.1-RELEASE to be finalized. I desperately want it as soon as possible for a laptop currently running such a piece of shit OS (Debian -- used to be good, but after half a dozen years away it went significantly downhill) that I'm about ready to pull out my hair. It needs hardware support not available with FreeBSD until now, and I want stable, -RELEASE software on it to suit my needs. That having been said, I don't challenge the FreeBSD project to meet future release dates. This isn't Ubuntu; it's FreeBSD. I'd rather they get it *right* than get it out *quickly*. Hell, even before I stopped using Debian, when I thought it was still good, there were signs of its impending slide into crappiness -- and they all happened around the time the Debian project started trying to meet release dates on a faster development schedule. No . . . I don't want to push the FreeBSD core team to sacrifice the things that make FreeBSD valuable just to meet arbitrary release date guesstimates. Screw that. Why: Because the FreeBSD project has not met a significant number of its release dates. It's an apalling state of affairs and makes you, the project, look silly. Business and personal users plan elements of their schedules, budgets and capabilities around OS updates. And the continual failure of FreeBSD to deliver causes us to have no alternative but to look at our bosses and just shrug. We've taken to padding it out a week, two weeks, a month, two months... just to cover the random slippage. Since there seems to be no public statements about this ongoing situation, we might as well pad it to a quarter or a half... FreeBSD's already a half behind on status reports. Here you make a point I'd like to see addressed. I wish we had a simple way to find out what's going on with the wait. That doesn't mean I want anyone prioritizing speed over quality, though. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Stephen Cook scli...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/11/2012 1:52 AM, Anonymous wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project to meet its future release dates. Similarly, I'm a bit concerned that 9.0 loses support at the end of January, but there is no release date for 9.1 (at http://www5.us.freebsd.org/releases/9.1R/schedule.html, the last actual date shown is November 3, 2012, for RC3). I'm confused as to the best course of action: continue to use an unsupported version and hope the new one comes out sooner than later, or downgrade to a supported version (8.3). From security.freebsd.org: Normal Releases which are published from a -STABLE branch will be supported by the Security Officer for a minimum of 12 months after the release, and for sufficient additional time (if needed) to ensure that there is a newer release for at least 3 months before the older Normal release expires. So the real EoL for 9.0 is the date of 9.1 release plus 3 months. -- Nino ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 01:52:04AM -0500, Anonymous wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project to meet its future release dates. OK. Get busy. You have a lot of work to do. Have you ever created or maintained a large project using volunteer help? Get serious and think what you are talking about before making such comments. Release dates are estimates. Would it help your sensitive situation to call them release estimates rather than release dates? jerry Why: Because the FreeBSD project has not met a significant number of its release dates. It's an apalling state of affairs and makes you, the project, look silly. Business and personal users plan elements of their schedules, budgets and capabilities around OS updates. And the continual failure of FreeBSD to deliver causes us to have no alternative but to look at our bosses and just shrug. We've taken to padding it out a week, two weeks, a month, two months... just to cover the random slippage. Since there seems to be no public statements about this ongoing situation, we might as well pad it to a quarter or a half... FreeBSD's already a half behind on status reports. No one is asking for a commercial dictatorship here. But please FreeBSD, coordinate better amongst yourselves!!! Be honest about what is and isn't going to make it. Grow the wiki as your central coordination center [ie 1] and start moving dynamic docs from www to there (the community). Replace GNATS (omg, ugh), SVN, and even MoinMoin so the world can interface with some things that it has some (good / market leading) experience with [2]. Other than that, FreeBSD is great :) [1] http://wiki.freebsd.org/WhatsNew/FreeBSD10 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_issue_tracking_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_help_desk_issue_tracking_software http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software_(PHP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software http://www.simplemachines.org/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Anonymous anonym...@foto.nl1.torservers.net wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD You speak only for yourself. - M PS I'll bet waiters in restaurants spit in your food ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:58:38 -0800 Michael Sierchio articulated: On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Anonymous anonym...@foto.nl1.torservers.net wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD You speak only for yourself. Another interesting item referencing FreeBSD. http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/12/09/1726222/freebsd-project-falls-short-of-year-end-funding-target-by-nearly-50 -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
The FreeBSD Foundation is not the FreeBSD Project. I encourage you to give to the Foundation, because it exists to support the Project. But the majority of work done on the development and maintenance is not funded by the Foundation - by and large, it is self-funded by contributors, or occasionally funded by outside grants for specific functions (e.g. the Trusted BSD framework). http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
anonym...@foto.nl1.torservers.net wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project Troll Detected ? - List remit requires a question. Poster gave no question, just criticised. http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions - There are better addresses than questions@ to contact influence more FreeBSD volunteer workers decision makers. - questions@ iswrong address for disparate people responsible for seperate issues eg release schedules, wikis, etc. Aggregating noise here is Bad. - Anonymous criticism discourages consideration of points which might benefit FreeBSD if raised for consideration [later], to other addresses, Not posted anonymously. postmas...@freebsd.org can be requested to block addresses. For random chat: freebsd-c...@freebsd.org http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat Other lists http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo If waiting for 9.1-RELEASE, src/ available last week compiles runs. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2012-December/071044.html Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, like a play script. Indent old text with . Send plain text. Not: HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project to meet its future release dates. Why: Because the FreeBSD project has not met a significant number of its release dates. It's an apalling state of affairs and makes you, the project, look silly. Business and personal users plan elements of their schedules, budgets and capabilities around OS updates. And the continual failure of FreeBSD to deliver causes us to have no alternative but to look at our bosses and just shrug. We've taken to padding it out a week, two weeks, a month, two months... just to cover the random slippage. Since there seems to be no public statements about this ongoing situation, we might as well pad it to a quarter or a half... FreeBSD's already a half behind on status reports. No one is asking for a commercial dictatorship here. But please FreeBSD, coordinate better amongst yourselves!!! Be honest about what is and isn't going to make it. Grow the wiki as your central coordination center [ie 1] and start moving dynamic docs from www to there (the community). Replace GNATS (omg, ugh), SVN, and even MoinMoin so the world can interface with some things that it has some (good / market leading) experience with [2]. Other than that, FreeBSD is great :) [1] http://wiki.freebsd.org/WhatsNew/FreeBSD10 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_issue_tracking_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_help_desk_issue_tracking_software http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software_(PHP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software http://www.simplemachines.org/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On 11 December 2012 01:52, Anonymous anonym...@foto.nl1.torservers.net wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project to meet its future release dates. No we don't. Go back to posting your pictures of kiddie porn, anonymous. -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On 12/11/2012 1:52 AM, Anonymous wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project to meet its future release dates. Similarly, I'm a bit concerned that 9.0 loses support at the end of January, but there is no release date for 9.1 (at http://www5.us.freebsd.org/releases/9.1R/schedule.html, the last actual date shown is November 3, 2012, for RC3). I'm confused as to the best course of action: continue to use an unsupported version and hope the new one comes out sooner than later, or downgrade to a supported version (8.3). I know FreeBSD is free and community-supported, but this still seems a bit... improper? Right now I'm only dealing with personal machines (and nothing truly vital at that), but I am formulating plans to use FreeBSD commercially and this makes me uneasy. -- Stephen ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Release Date Challenge, plus other stuff the project needs
On 12/11/2012 08:17 AM, Stephen Cook wrote: On 12/11/2012 1:52 AM, Anonymous wrote: We, the users of FreeBSD, *do hereby challenge* the FreeBSD project to meet its future release dates. Similarly, I'm a bit concerned that 9.0 loses support at the end of January, but there is no release date for 9.1 (at http://www5.us.freebsd.org/releases/9.1R/schedule.html, the last actual date shown is November 3, 2012, for RC3). I'm confused as to the best course of action: continue to use an unsupported version and hope the new one comes out sooner than later, or downgrade to a supported version (8.3). I know FreeBSD is free and community-supported, but this still seems a bit... improper? Right now I'm only dealing with personal machines (and nothing truly vital at that), but I am formulating plans to use FreeBSD commercially and this makes me uneasy. Well for production servers I have the habit of staying on 8.3-RELEASE, in this case, which is supported until April 30 2014 and then move them to 9.1-RELEASE I have been doing so for previous releases also, no need to get worried. For personal and testing systems, like being not for clients production systems, I use whatever is desired, RELEASE, BETA, or RC (freebsd-update) and STABLE, or CURRENT (source svn) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
