Re: Getting tlmgr working
On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 06:04:03PM -0400, Jerry wrote: Has there been any movement on getting tlmgr working on FreeBSD? The inability to get and install updates is annoying. Basically there are two ways of dealing with TeXLive; 1) Install it from ports. This also means using ports to update it. 2) Use the TeXLive installer to install it. In this case you can use tlmgr to update it. I've used method 2 since 2007, and that has worked fine for me. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://rsmith.home.xs4all.nl/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpXU3dq92wKP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Getting tlmgr working
On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:26:09 +0200 Roland Smith articulated: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 06:04:03PM -0400, Jerry wrote: Has there been any movement on getting tlmgr working on FreeBSD? The inability to get and install updates is annoying. Basically there are two ways of dealing with TeXLive; 1) Install it from ports. This also means using ports to update it. 2) Use the TeXLive installer to install it. In this case you can use tlmgr to update it. I've used method 2 since 2007, and that has worked fine for me. The problem is that the ports system is not keeping individual TeXLive packages. I primarily use TeXLive on an MS Windows system where it runs faster and is easier to maintain then on FreeBSD. There is an old adage, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unfortunately, in the case of tlmgr, they failed to pay heed to that advice. The ports system is not keeping individual TeXLive packages updated. Besides, using a big, complex system like the FreeBSD ports system to keep the individual packages of a single program, in this case TeXLive, updated when the program supplies its own mechanism for doing so, is just another failed attempt at reinventing the wheel. As my deceased grandmother would say when she witnessed something incredibly stupid being done, What the hell were they thinking? There area also a slew of other ports that fail to install if the system is configured to run TeXLive. When they will get that problem solved is anyone's guess. The bottom line is the port and all of the assorted problems with it and other ports it affects were not resolved prior to its release. At the very least, a nice large warning banner should have been displayed when the port was first installed clearly listing all of the known problems and side effects of the port. However, that is just my 2¢. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Getting tlmgr working
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 07:59:32AM -0400, Jerry wrote: On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:26:09 +0200 Roland Smith articulated: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 06:04:03PM -0400, Jerry wrote: Has there been any movement on getting tlmgr working on FreeBSD? The inability to get and install updates is annoying. Basically there are two ways of dealing with TeXLive; 1) Install it from ports. This also means using ports to update it. 2) Use the TeXLive installer to install it. In this case you can use tlmgr to update it. I've used method 2 since 2007, and that has worked fine for me. The problem is that the ports system is not keeping individual TeXLive packages. My guess would be that this was a consideration between convenience and workload, given that TeXLive contains a gazillion packages. Check the archives of the freebsd-ports list for more info. In _principle_ it would have been possible to make a port out of all CTAN/TeXLive packages. But the maintenance overhead would be _huge_. Plus, it takes a TeXpert to determine which specific packages you need to do something, and even most TeX users don't fall into that category. So that approach is unrealistic. Given the amount of disk space on a modern PC, doing a full install would not be a problem for most people. (Unless you're trying to run TeXLive on a raspberry pi or a beaglebone, in which case I would respectfully question your sanity. :-) ) There is an old adage, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unfortunately, in the case of tlmgr, they failed to pay heed to that advice. There were other considerations. Suppose a single TeXLive port was made, that would just let tlmgr do its thing. What would that port provide, and what would its dependencies be? That is _impossible_ for the ports system to tell, because it would be determined _outside_ the ports system. In this case you could get a situation that a program that depends on a part of TeXLive could be installed (because the TeXLive port is installed) but it wouldn't work because the right option wasn't selected in tlmgr. Not a good situation. Another problem scenario is that you use tlmgr to install something that doesn't work because it needs a library that isn't installed yet. The ports system is not keeping individual TeXLive packages updated. Indeed, but is that such a big deal? TeX is a relatively mature piece of software. That's one of the reasons why there is only one release every year. I tend to update my TeXLive install once every year after the new release comes out, and that strategy has served me well over the years. Besides, using a big, complex system like the FreeBSD ports system to keep the individual packages of a single program, in this case TeXLive, updated when the program supplies its own mechanism for doing so, is just another failed attempt at reinventing the wheel. Damned if they do, damned if they don't? The thing is, TeXLive _isn't_ a single program, that is the basis of the problem. There area also a slew of other ports that fail to install if the system is configured to run TeXLive. When they will get that problem solved is anyone's guess. Submitting PRs would help. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://rsmith.home.xs4all.nl/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpnVa6GeWgS8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Getting tlmgr working
On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 19:39:17 +0200 Roland Smith articulated: On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 07:59:32AM -0400, Jerry wrote: On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:26:09 +0200 Roland Smith articulated: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 06:04:03PM -0400, Jerry wrote: Has there been any movement on getting tlmgr working on FreeBSD? The inability to get and install updates is annoying. Basically there are two ways of dealing with TeXLive; 1) Install it from ports. This also means using ports to update it. 2) Use the TeXLive installer to install it. In this case you can use tlmgr to update it. I've used method 2 since 2007, and that has worked fine for me. The problem is that the ports system is not keeping individual TeXLive packages. My guess would be that this was a consideration between convenience and workload, given that TeXLive contains a gazillion packages. Check the archives of the freebsd-ports list for more info. In _principle_ it would have been possible to make a port out of all CTAN/TeXLive packages. But the maintenance overhead would be _huge_. Plus, it takes a TeXpert to determine which specific packages you need to do something, and even most TeX users don't fall into that category. So that approach is unrealistic. Given the amount of disk space on a modern PC, doing a full install would not be a problem for most people. (Unless you're trying to run TeXLive on a raspberry pi or a beaglebone, in which case I would respectfully question your sanity. :-) ) There is an old adage, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unfortunately, in the case of tlmgr, they failed to pay heed to that advice. There were other considerations. Suppose a single TeXLive port was made, that would just let tlmgr do its thing. What would that port provide, and what would its dependencies be? That is _impossible_ for the ports system to tell, because it would be determined _outside_ the ports system. In this case you could get a situation that a program that depends on a part of TeXLive could be installed (because the TeXLive port is installed) but it wouldn't work because the right option wasn't selected in tlmgr. Not a good situation. Another problem scenario is that you use tlmgr to install something that doesn't work because it needs a library that isn't installed yet. The ports system is not keeping individual TeXLive packages updated. Indeed, but is that such a big deal? TeX is a relatively mature piece of software. That's one of the reasons why there is only one release every year. I tend to update my TeXLive install once every year after the new release comes out, and that strategy has served me well over the years. Besides, using a big, complex system like the FreeBSD ports system to keep the individual packages of a single program, in this case TeXLive, updated when the program supplies its own mechanism for doing so, is just another failed attempt at reinventing the wheel. Damned if they do, damned if they don't? The thing is, TeXLive _isn't_ a single program, that is the basis of the problem. There area also a slew of other ports that fail to install if the system is configured to run TeXLive. When they will get that problem solved is anyone's guess. Submitting PRs would help. I was told by the maintain of the *-freebsd-doc-* ports that they know there is a problem and that it will be looked into. Interestingly enough, that is the exact same answer I use when I have no clue what is wrong and no intention of doing anything about it in the immediate future. Clearly, this should not have happened. Seriously though, tlmgr is the name of the package and configuration manager included in TeX Live. It operates completely separately from any package manager the operating system may provide. I fail to see why it was disabled. I think I will take the advice I was given and clear TeXLive from my system and then download and install it from it from tug.org. I have been told it works perfectly and without any of the BS that FreeBSD apparently decided to attach to it. Again, if it wasn't broke, why did they feel the need to fix it? Are we sure that FreeBSD doesn't work for the government? -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Getting tlmgr working
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: Seriously though, tlmgr is the name of the package and configuration manager included in TeX Live. It operates completely separately from any package manager the operating system may provide. I fail to see why it was disabled. I think I will take the advice I was given and clear TeXLive from my system and then download and install it from it from tug.org. I have been told it works perfectly and without any of the BS that FreeBSD apparently decided to attach to it. Again, if it wasn't broke, why did they feel the need to fix it? Are we sure that FreeBSD doesn't work for the government? -- Have you used the freebsd-texlive ports? https://code.google.com/p/freebsd-texlive/ For a good while, Romain Tartiere has provided these ports which took care of many complicated things that had not been done natively in FreeBSD. Again, if it wasn't broke, why did they feel the need to fix it? They* never fixed it, up till recently, texlive has officially been added to the FreeBSD ports: root@grullahighschool:~ # cat /usr/ports/UPDATING | grep 'texlive' Specifying TEX_DEFAULT=texlive, almost all of ports which use TeX The directory layout of them is as follows. Please use print/texlive-full - print/texlive-full: meta port to install all of the TeXLive components - print/texlive-base: binary programs in TeXLive - print/texlive-texmf: macro and font data in TeXLive - print/texlive-infra: tlmgr dependency (Perl modules) 20130511: AFFECTS: users of TeX AUTHOR: h...@freebsd.org One can now choose TeXLive or teTeX by using TEX_DEFAULT. Specifying TEX_DEFAULT=texlive, almost all of ports which use TeX will install and depend on TeXLive-based ones. Note that the default value is still tetex and the two cannot coexist. You need to remove all of the TeX-related packages based on teTeX to try TeXLive. 20130506: AFFECTS: users of TeX AUTHOR: h...@freebsd.org TeXLive ports have been imported. Although most of ports still depend on teTeX at this moment, they will be converted to use TeXLive. The directory layout of them is as follows. Please use print/texlive-full if you are not familiar with how each component works. Finer-grained ports will be added (specifically, meta ports for smaller installation and so on). Note that the full installation needs around 3GB of disk space. teTeX-based ports and TeXLive are mutually exclusive. This means TeXLive ports cannot be installed when teTeX is already installed. You need to remove all of the TeX-related packages based on teTeX to try TeXLive. Migration procedure will be announced when conversion of the port dependency is completed. * Meta port - print/texlive-full: meta port to install all of the TeXLive components * Libraries - devel/tex-kpathsea: kpathsea library - devel/tex-web2c: WEB2C toolchain and TeX engines - print/tex-ptexenc: character code conversion library for pTeX * Base part of the TeXLive - print/texlive-base: binary programs in TeXLive - print/texlive-texmf: macro and font data in TeXLive - print/texlive-infra: tlmgr dependency (Perl modules) - print/tex-formats: * TeX Formats - print/tex-formats: TeX, LaTeX, PDFTeX, AMSTeX, ConTeXT, CSLaTeX, EplainTeX, METAFONT, MLTeX, PDFTeX, TeXsis - print/tex-aleph: Aleph/Lambda - print/tex-xetex: XeTeX - print/tex-luatex: LuaTeX - print/tex-jadetex: JadeTeX - print/tex-xmltex: XMLTeX - japanese/tex-ptex: pTeX * DVI ware - print/tex-xdvik: XDvi It took a BIG WHILE to get texlive onboard natively on official FreeBSD ports. TeTeX has been depracated since 2006 and now it is there, but people are never happy. Are we sure that FreeBSD doesn't work for the government? Which government? I hope not the U.S. government which is doing things backwards and thinking on their feet instead of their brains and not respecting * Best Regards, Antonio ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Getting tlmgr working
Has there been any movement on getting tlmgr working on FreeBSD? The inability to get and install updates is annoying. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
