Re: Printer recommendation please
Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: Furthermore, there are means of encrypting print data ... Utterly irrelevant to the topic under discussion, which is the additional malware exposure that a PDF-accepting printer has relative to a printer that accepts only PCL and/or PS. FROM YOUR ORIGINAL POST: All the more reason to avoid wireless. (I had been thinking more along the lines of someone intercepting sensitive print files, e.g. tax returns, as they were being sent to the printer.) I think you must have missed the parentheses, and the had been. When I initially stated my distrust of wireless (in a post prior to the one you quoted here), I didn't specify a particular security- related reason, just general concern that it effectively bypasses the firewall. Here I note that Poly's concern about a printer being corrupted by receiving a malicious firmware update job is important, and acknowledge that my original concern about sniffing pales by comparison. I again restate my original statement that there exists means of encrypting data sent to a printer. Yes, provided the printer supports the corresponding decryption operation, but that capability is still irrelevant to the question of whether the printer's firmware can be corrupted by a malicious firmware update job. According to the report that Poly linked to, there are at least some printers that are vulnerable to that kind of attack. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: Obviously you are not aware of the latest trend towards the movement to standardize PDF as the standard print format. I would recommend you start by reading the documentation located at: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting and continue on from there. That page seems to be concerned with using PDF, rather than PS, as a common intermediate print language in CUPS. I see nothing there relevant to sending PDF directly to a printer. While there might be some rational for your security concerns on a business network in regards to wireless networks, they are not really relevant on a home networks. The simple ease of use that a wireless network gives a user on a home network far outweigh any pseudo claims of espionage. Following that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion would lead one to believe that home networks have no need of any malware protection, e.g. anti-virus. Any ISP which has had to deal with incidents precipitated by customers' infected machines -- including but likely not limited to DDoS and spambots -- would likely disagree. Furthermore, there are means of encrypting print data ... Utterly irrelevant to the topic under discussion, which is the additional malware exposure that a PDF-accepting printer has relative to a printer that accepts only PCL and/or PS. I maintain that an attacker can more easily trick a less-than- paranoid user into sending a malware print file to a PDF-accepting printer than to a non-PDF-accepting printer, simply because PDF is such a commonly used distribution format. If someone prints a malware PDF file that they have downloaded, and the process of printing it does not require that it be transformed in any way (such as conversion to PS) before being sent to the printer, their only protection from disaster is whatever validation may be built into the printer itself. (Keep in mind that what started the malware discussion was Poly's link to a report stating that some printers do not sufficiently validate an update firmware job.) Granted the identical exposure exists for a PS printer if the downloaded malware file is identified as a PS file, however the risk is much less in practice because distribution of PS files is sufficiently uncommon that most unsophisticated users would have no idea what to do with one if they were to come across it. By the way, since you seem so concerned over your printers security, I assume that you all ready have it at least password protected. No need. I have no wireless at all -- everything is hardwired -- and I trust my firewall. There's no way for anyone to either sniff or inject anything from outside (i.e. without physical access to the network on the secure side of the firewall). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 04/04/12 04:22, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Jerryje...@seibercom.net wrote: By the way, since you seem so concerned over your printers security, I assume that you all ready have it at least password protected. No need. I have no wireless at all -- everything is hardwired -- and I trust my firewall. There's no way for anyone to either sniff or inject anything from outside (i.e. without physical access to the network on the secure side of the firewall). And of course you can't login to firewall from the internet, and therefore no CE devices exposed. This then allows you to concentrate on what happens inside your network, without worrying about outside forces getting in without your knowledge. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:22:24 -0700 per...@pluto.rain.com articulated: Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: Obviously you are not aware of the latest trend towards the movement to standardize PDF as the standard print format. I would recommend you start by reading the documentation located at: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting and continue on from there. That page seems to be concerned with using PDF, rather than PS, as a common intermediate print language in CUPS. I see nothing there relevant to sending PDF directly to a printer. PDF is slowly, but surely, becoming the default printing format on several operating systems. A relatively quick check will reveal that more and more manufacturers are now starting to natively support this print format. While there might be some rational for your security concerns on a business network in regards to wireless networks, they are not really relevant on a home networks. The simple ease of use that a wireless network gives a user on a home network far outweigh any pseudo claims of espionage. Following that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion would lead one to believe that home networks have no need of any malware protection, e.g. anti-virus. Any ISP which has had to deal with incidents precipitated by customers' infected machines -- including but likely not limited to DDoS and spambots -- would likely disagree. Your line of reasoning has somehow gotten totally sidetracked. At no point did I state that NO security measures were ever need. Obviously, everyone needs to establish a certain security baseline for his/her system. Whether or not that system is wireless or hard wired makes absolutely no difference. In fact, I might make a case that it is easier to navigate a hard wired system as opposed to a wireless one since most hard wired systems do not require passwords or certificates to access various components of said system. You stated further on that you have no password or certificate protection on your system. One grenade and you all die. Furthermore, there are means of encrypting print data ... Utterly irrelevant to the topic under discussion, which is the additional malware exposure that a PDF-accepting printer has relative to a printer that accepts only PCL and/or PS. FROM YOUR ORIGINAL POST: All the more reason to avoid wireless. (I had been thinking more along the lines of someone intercepting sensitive print files, e.g. tax returns, as they were being sent to the printer.) I again restate my original statement that there exists means of encrypting data sent to a printer. Whether or not you choose to employ them is your business. Requiring security certificates to access the printer offers even greater protection. I maintain that an attacker can more easily trick a less-than- paranoid user into sending a malware print file to a PDF-accepting printer than to a non-PDF-accepting printer, simply because PDF is such a commonly used distribution format. If someone prints a malware PDF file that they have downloaded, and the process of printing it does not require that it be transformed in any way (such as conversion to PS) before being sent to the printer, their only protection from disaster is whatever validation may be built into the printer itself. (Keep in mind that what started the malware discussion was Poly's link to a report stating that some printers do not sufficiently validate an update firmware job.) And some do. It is a constantly moving target. You make a better mouse trap, they make a better mouse. It is the degree of paranoia that you are willing to live with. If the user spends his/her time visiting porno sites, then they can reasonably expect to be infected with a malignant file. It is virtually impossible to protect someone from their own bad habits. Please, don't waste your time with the, I caught it from a toilet seat explanation. While you could get infected spending a day in the Smithsonian Institution, your odds greatly increase if you spend it in a whore house. Granted the identical exposure exists for a PS printer if the downloaded malware file is identified as a PS file, however the risk is much less in practice because distribution of PS files is sufficiently uncommon that most unsophisticated users would have no idea what to do with one if they were to come across it. By your own words, the problem exists. The question here is the degree of exposure. By the way, since you seem so concerned over your printers security, I assume that you all ready have it at least password protected. No need. I have no wireless at all -- everything is hardwired -- and I trust my firewall. There's no way for anyone to either sniff or inject anything from outside (i.e. without physical access to the network on the secure side of the firewall). Don't worry Captain Smith, this ship can't sink. On a serous note, I have spent the last
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:40:05 -0400, Jerry wrote: On a serous note, I have spent the last 12 hours, more or less, checking with my friends and business associates. Not a single one has ever had or knows of a single incident of anyone actually ever being infected or having suffered any negative reaction to having printed a PDF file. Most, but not all of these friends / associates are Microsoft users; however, that should not invalidate the statistics. That might be a problem: Malicious acts take place in the background. The time where a virus would pop a funny message on the screen are long over. In Windows land, there are limited resources for means of diagnostics and troubleshooting. Many people believe (and please take that word seriously) that they have no virus, and if you bring a laptop with a traffic scanner (e. g. Wireshark, ex Ethereal), you can see scary things happen on their network. In worst case, the police rushes in, takes all the PCs, and the sloppy explaination they give is: We're investigating a case of copyright infringement, we suspect your PCs being an active sharepoint of copyrighted material. While Windows and its programs presents lots of bells whistles to the user, there's no real chance to find out what's _really_ happening behind that curtain. There are _tons_ of programs out there that can be considered snake oil in regards of security. Windows users know 'em, many of them use 'em. I can imagine if PDF printers spread more and more, they become more interesting to attackers, and malware like Professional Printer Anti-Malware Check XXL Super High Security Programs will spread, waiting for the poor-minded victims to run them, and BANG! printer pwn'd. This is the _first_ step into turning a corporate network into a botnet. If the attacker is able to hide inside a printer, it's much easier for him to do sniper attacks with precision as he is in control of a full-featured networking devices that nobody recognizes... or verifies. Running virus scans, malware scans and so on on Windows PCs has become standard by the majority of its users. Printers are not concerned here, and maybe there are no proper tools available to do the pending tests. Applying that consideration to PDF files, virus scanners would have to check them before they are sent to the printer. In fact, the FOSS society claims MS is more vulnerable to infections/hijacking then they are. This is due to its usage share. I believe if Linux (for example) would run on 90% of home PCs, attackers would concentrate their activities on that platform. Given the statement that the platform is more secure in a technical way (by design and implementation), attackers would potentially try to access the weakest part: the user. This kind of attack is different from those that work in a technical way (e. g. overwriting a printer's firmware silently and secretly), because it does not depend on technical vulnerabilities in the first place. FOSS or not, people have to understand that security is not a static thing, it's a process that involves _them_ to act. A Linux server with telnet enabled and empty root password is as dangerous as a Windows PC in a corporate network. Now there's something interesting hidden: Let's say a malicious file is sent to the printer to compromise it. It's send from a Linux workstation. Will Linux (to keep this example) have to contain a kind of PDF virus scanner by default? Take into mind what I said about behind the curtain. When a printer is compromised, and it acts maliciously within a Linux environment that is poorly secured, I agree with your statement that using a FOSS system does not imply security per se. The original PDF code was written years ago. Since about 2006 hackers have started finding vulnerabilities in it. That's a well-known fact in IT security. As I said, it's up to the manufacturers to properly deal with the security issues as good as possible. If they _can_ remove certain attack vectors for example by ignoring specific sections of PDF data, it would be a benefit for security without actually reducing functionality. It starts beginning complicated if there is a feature that is needed which can be used _against_ the system. Maybe data validation can help here... There was one that attacked scanned documents in MS Office. That problems was fixed over two years ago. Virtually all PDF attacks now target Web Browsers. A case can be made that viewing PDF files in a Web Browser is far more likely to infect a machine than printing such document ever could. Yes, that approach is welcome to attackers as it allows them to take over a full-featured Windows PC within seconds - the user just has to visit a certain web page. By auto-open magic of certain MUAs it's even easier to accomplish. Attacking a printer, however, is much more silent. Why? Because nobody CARES. Printers are not in the scope of security. Does anyone imagine to run a virus check on a printer? Does the
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:22:24 -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: Obviously you are not aware of the latest trend towards the movement to standardize PDF as the standard print format. I would recommend you start by reading the documentation located at: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting and continue on from there. That page seems to be concerned with using PDF, rather than PS, as a common intermediate print language in CUPS. I see nothing there relevant to sending PDF directly to a printer. See this page: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting/pdfasstandardprintjobformat It discusses (quite short, I admit) programs outputting PDF instead of PS when generating printing data. Handing that data over to the printer does not involve any conversion or intermediate formats anymore. The functionality of CUPS would then be reduced to what the system's default printer spooler does (and did since the 1970's): Read data from a program and send it to the printer. Only the format of data has changed: pure text, text with control characters, PS, PCL, PDF. It starts at the application front. While there might be some rational for your security concerns on a business network in regards to wireless networks, they are not really relevant on a home networks. The simple ease of use that a wireless network gives a user on a home network far outweigh any pseudo claims of espionage. Following that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion would lead one to believe that home networks have no need of any malware protection, e.g. anti-virus. Any ISP which has had to deal with incidents precipitated by customers' infected machines -- including but likely not limited to DDoS and spambots -- would likely disagree. Home networks and carelessly treated corporate networks make the majority of what causes trouble on the Internet. Don't notice == doesn't exist. :-) I maintain that an attacker can more easily trick a less-than- paranoid user into sending a malware print file to a PDF-accepting printer than to a non-PDF-accepting printer, simply because PDF is such a commonly used distribution format. In regards of the web being a main source of attacks, few lines of Javascript would allow to automatically access the printer and send it some PDF data, drive-by attacks made simple. If someone prints a malware PDF file that they have downloaded, and the process of printing it does not require that it be transformed in any way (such as conversion to PS) before being sent to the printer, their only protection from disaster is whatever validation may be built into the printer itself. (Keep in mind that what started the malware discussion was Poly's link to a report stating that some printers do not sufficiently validate an update firmware job.) That's why I _hope_ printer manufacturers will take care about that topic. As far as it's _possible_ to validate PDF data that _might_ be a threat, it should be done, and in worst case, malicious portions of the data should be ignored. Granted the identical exposure exists for a PS printer if the downloaded malware file is identified as a PS file, however the risk is much less in practice because distribution of PS files is sufficiently uncommon that most unsophisticated users would have no idea what to do with one if they were to come across it. Furthermore, PS files would - on most cases - undergo another conversion, for example to PCL. A PS interpreter would have to be exploited to carry malicious code from PS to PCL (if the PCL language allows the same kind of hostile manipulation as the PS language would). In this case, FOSS is a good shield. Code that gets many reviews by the _public_ is less prone to contain backdoors (phrase incorrectly used) that would allow such mis-interpretation. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 04/03/12 23:30, Polytropon wrote: On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:40:05 -0400, Jerry wrote: On a serous note, I have spent the last 12 hours, more or less, checking with my friends and business associates. Not a single one has ever had or knows of a single incident of anyone actually ever being infected or having suffered any negative reaction to having printed a PDF file. Most, but not all of these friends / associates are Microsoft users; however, that should not invalidate the statistics. That might be a problem: Malicious acts take place in the background. The time where a virus would pop a funny message on the screen are long over. In Windows land, there are limited resources for means of diagnostics and troubleshooting. Many people believe (and please take that word seriously) that they have no virus, and if you bring a laptop with a traffic scanner (e. g. Wireshark, ex Ethereal), you can see scary things happen on their network. In worst case, the police rushes in, takes all the PCs, and the sloppy explaination they give is: We're investigating a case of copyright infringement, we suspect your PCs being an active sharepoint of copyrighted material. While Windows and its programs presents lots of bells whistles to the user, there's no real chance to find out what's _really_ happening behind that curtain. There are _tons_ of programs out there that can be considered snake oil in regards of security. Windows users know 'em, many of them use 'em. I can imagine if PDF printers spread more and more, they become more interesting to attackers, and malware like Professional Printer Anti-Malware Check XXL Super High Security Programs will spread, waiting for the poor-minded victims to run them, and BANG! printer pwn'd. This is the _first_ step into turning a corporate network into a botnet. If the attacker is able to hide inside a printer, it's much easier for him to do sniper attacks with precision as he is in control of a full-featured networking devices that nobody recognizes... or verifies. Running virus scans, malware scans and so on on Windows PCs has become standard by the majority of its users. Printers are not concerned here, and maybe there are no proper tools available to do the pending tests. No. A traffic sniffer would be required to intercept traffic and discover any abnormalities. Most sysadmins wouldn't pay much attention, but you can bet it _will_ require a printer technician with training on the model to fix it- firmware usually requires either passworded telnet access or similar, possibly in conjunction with service software only available to the dealer- and may provide yet a whole new market for office machine service. I'd say sysadmins would expect the manufacturer to actually handle this issue. Applying that consideration to PDF files, virus scanners would have to check them before they are sent to the printer. In fact, the FOSS society claims MS is more vulnerable to infections/hijacking then they are. This is due to its usage share. I believe if Linux (for example) would run on 90% of home PCs, attackers would concentrate their activities on that platform. Given the statement that the platform is more secure in a technical way (by design and implementation), attackers would potentially try to access the weakest part: the user. This kind of attack is different from those that work in a technical way (e. g. overwriting a printer's firmware silently and secretly), because it does not depend on technical vulnerabilities in the first place. FOSS or not, people have to understand that security is not a static thing, it's a process that involves _them_ to act. A Linux server with telnet enabled and empty root password is as dangerous as a Windows PC in a corporate network. Now there's something interesting hidden: Let's say a malicious file is sent to the printer to compromise it. It's send from a Linux workstation. Will Linux (to keep this example) have to contain a kind of PDF virus scanner by default? Take into mind what I said about behind the curtain. When a printer is compromised, and it acts maliciously within a Linux environment that is poorly secured, I agree with your statement that using a FOSS system does not imply security per se. Having found a poorly 'written' pdf, I believe a simple pdf2pdf (using gs with similar commands as pdf2ps) will be sufficient to 'clean' the pdf file- or render it harmless. But essentially running through the cups filters (speaking of the general user) will do this I think- easily verified. Incidentally the pdf was written using MS Office, which offers yet another can o' worms. The original PDF code was written years ago. Since about 2006 hackers have started finding vulnerabilities in it. That's a well-known fact in IT security. As I said, it's up to the manufacturers to properly deal with the security issues as good as possible. If they _can_ remove certain attack vectors for example by ignoring specific sections of PDF
Re: Printer recommendation please
Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:01:43 -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I personally don't trust wireless, because it's well nigh impossible to truly secure it. In that case, one should also pay attention to secure the printer. Wait - secure the printer? What am I talking about? Firmware attacks! Yes - malware has already reached printers ... All the more reason to avoid wireless. (I had been thinking more along the lines of someone intercepting sensitive print files, e.g. tax returns, as they were being sent to the printer.) A printer connected to a hard-wired network, behind a firewall with no tunnelling to it allowed, is not going to get anything sent to it from outside. Granted this does not protect against malware jobs sent from a local machine, but it at least avoids having malware sent wirelessly to the printer by someone parked out front, thus there's one less pathway needing to be secured. It may also be a reason to _avoid_ printers that accept PDF directly. Since PDFs are often downloaded and printed, an attacker could post a bogus firmware download under an innocent-sounding name like manual.pdf leading someone to do $ fetch http://.../manual.pdf lpr manual.pdf Oops. However if said PDF has to first be locally converted to PS (e.g. by xpdf) before being sent to the printer, an attacker would have to (somehow) formulate a PDF that would cause xpdf to emit a PostScript file that looked to the printer like a firmware download. I don't know enough about either PDF or xpdf to say whether that's possible, but I imagine it would at least be a whole lot more difficult than in the direct PDF case. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 04/03/12 01:09, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Polytroponfree...@edvax.de wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:01:43 -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I personally don't trust wireless, because it's well nigh impossible to truly secure it. In that case, one should also pay attention to secure the printer. Wait - secure the printer? What am I talking about? Firmware attacks! Yes - malware has already reached printers ... All the more reason to avoid wireless. (I had been thinking more along the lines of someone intercepting sensitive print files, e.g. tax returns, as they were being sent to the printer.) A printer connected to a hard-wired network, behind a firewall with no tunnelling to it allowed, is not going to get anything sent to it from outside. Granted this does not protect against malware jobs sent from a local machine, but it at least avoids having malware sent wirelessly to the printer by someone parked out front, thus there's one less pathway needing to be secured. It may also be a reason to _avoid_ printers that accept PDF directly. Since PDFs are often downloaded and printed, an attacker could post a bogus firmware download under an innocent-sounding name like manual.pdf leading someone to do $ fetch http://.../manual.pdf; lpr manual.pdf Oops. However if said PDF has to first be locally converted to PS (e.g. by xpdf) before being sent to the printer, an attacker would have to (somehow) formulate a PDF that would cause xpdf to emit a PostScript file that looked to the printer like a firmware download. I don't know enough about either PDF or xpdf to say whether that's possible, but I imagine it would at least be a whole lot more difficult than in the direct PDF case. Sounds pretty good to me. I'd implement it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:09:07 -0700 per...@pluto.rain.com articulated: Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:01:43 -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I personally don't trust wireless, because it's well nigh impossible to truly secure it. In that case, one should also pay attention to secure the printer. Wait - secure the printer? What am I talking about? Firmware attacks! Yes - malware has already reached printers ... All the more reason to avoid wireless. (I had been thinking more along the lines of someone intercepting sensitive print files, e.g. tax returns, as they were being sent to the printer.) A printer connected to a hard-wired network, behind a firewall with no tunnelling to it allowed, is not going to get anything sent to it from outside. Granted this does not protect against malware jobs sent from a local machine, but it at least avoids having malware sent wirelessly to the printer by someone parked out front, thus there's one less pathway needing to be secured. It may also be a reason to _avoid_ printers that accept PDF directly. Since PDFs are often downloaded and printed, an attacker could post a bogus firmware download under an innocent-sounding name like manual.pdf leading someone to do $ fetch http://.../manual.pdf lpr manual.pdf Oops. However if said PDF has to first be locally converted to PS (e.g. by xpdf) before being sent to the printer, an attacker would have to (somehow) formulate a PDF that would cause xpdf to emit a PostScript file that looked to the printer like a firmware download. I don't know enough about either PDF or xpdf to say whether that's possible, but I imagine it would at least be a whole lot more difficult than in the direct PDF case. Obviously you are not aware of the latest trend towards the movement to standardize PDF as the standard print format. I would recommend you start by reading the documentation located at: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting and continue on from there. While there might be some rational for your security concerns on a business network in regards to wireless networks, they are not really relevant on a home networks. The simple ease of use that a wireless network gives a user on a home network far outweigh any pseudo claims of espionage. Furthermore, there are means of encrypting print data. I leave the mastery of that matter up to the student. By the way, since you seem so concerned over your printers security, I assume that you all ready have it at least password protected. Personally, I prefer using certificates. Now that is real security. Again, I assume you are using printers capable of that security. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ Faith goes out through the window when beauty comes in at the door. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 07:33:03 -0400, Jerry wrote: Obviously you are not aware of the latest trend towards the movement to standardize PDF as the standard print format. I would recommend you start by reading the documentation located at: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting and continue on from there. Seconded, good introductional read. Addition: PDF as Standard Print Job Format http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting/pdfasstandardprintjobformat While there might be some rational for your security concerns on a business network in regards to wireless networks, they are not really relevant on a home networks. The simple ease of use that a wireless network gives a user on a home network far outweigh any pseudo claims of espionage. I think you're underestimating the threat coming from hijacked home consumer networks. Of course, business networks are more interesting, as they might contain data one could sell (personnel data, inventions, business figures, pricing, internal products calculations and so on), but home networks seem to be more easily to crack. The typical point of attack is a Windows PC in such a network, and the result is a machine controlled by a criminal, acting as a spam server, as part of a botnet, as a participant in illegal file sharing or as a storage point for child pornography. The user itself often doesn't recognize any of those activities. In today's Internet, more than 90% of the traffic generated in email is spam. What do you think they come from? Now let's assume printers are easily exploitable because manufacturers are careless when implementing the PDF printing standard, or they leave extensions active that can be abused. While average Windows users are more and more aware of caring about viruses, trojans, malware and other attacks for their _own_ security, such considerations about a printer aren't wide spread. But it's only a printer, it can't do anything! What I want to say: Printers _are_ and _will be_ attack vectors that need attention. If the manufacturers provide a good basis, that would be great. For example, if a PDF file contained malicious code, the printer accepts it, prints it, but doesn't do anything more, it would be a safe procedure. But as PDF is _known_ to be unsafe in regards that it _can_ contain stuff to attack a computer, the conclusion is that (depending on what manufacturers actually implement) it might do so to a printer too. The danger of PDF is comparable to the danger of Office files (typically macros as hooks for malicious code). Now add some auto-opening functionality to a MUA, and you're done. Summary: PDF as a printing standard is very welcome, as long as it takes the chance to be a secure thing. Furthermore, there are means of encrypting print data. I leave the mastery of that matter up to the student. That's interesting, I'll investigate on that further. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 2012, Mar 30, at 11:17, Warren Block wrote: It should work with FreeBSD, certainly for text. For graphics output, Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the 6500, but one of the similar printers probably will work. Don't expect photo quality, color lasers have to do halftones. It doesn't surprise me that Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the 6500 because Xerox provides one: http://www.support.xerox.com/support/phaser-6500/downloads/enus.html?operatingSystem=linuxfileLanguage=en I have a Phaser 6300 (older model), and it has worked well for every OS that I have thrown at it, including Mac, Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, iOS, etc. Echoing others, get a real postscript printer, get a real network printer (not USB), and get a laser printer (although Thermal Wax would also be acceptable). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Da Rock freebsd-questi...@herveybayaustralia.com.au wrote: On 04/01/12 19:29, Polytropon wrote: Firmware attacks! ROFL! Sorry my mind went to an interesting place with this one images of printers on spring break flashing their cartridges, opening flaps to show off their drums... :D Reminds me of the VAXorcist... ;-) http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/vaxorcist.html -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:20:41 +0200, Lino Miklav wrote: On 31.03.2012 00:16, Peter A. Giessel wrote: It doesn't surprise me that Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the 6500 because Xerox provides one: Uf, I have this idea to only use LPD and filters. That should be no problem. If I read the specifications for the Xerox Phaser 6280V DN correctly, it supports both PS and PCL. Here's an example for a PCL printer filter: #!/bin/sh printf \033k2G || exit 2 gs -q -dBATCH -dNOPAUSE -dPARANOIDSAFER -dSAFER -sPAPERSIZE=a4 -r600x600 \ -sDEVICE=ljet4 -sOutputFile=- - exit 0 exit 2 The ljet4 produces PCL, it can also be used to access features like duplexer (add -dDuplex=true). It basically does the same as the apsfilter filter, except that the apsfilter one has support for pretty printing and direct command line printing, so % lpr foo.c or % lpr bar.png can be issued directly, no need to create a PS stream by another application. You can easily add that filter to /etc/printcap's if= setting, add rm= with the IP or hostname of the printer, prepare the spool and it should work. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:01:43 -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I personally don't trust wireless, because it's well nigh impossible to truly secure it. In that case, one should also pay attention to secure the printer. Wait - secure the printer? What am I talking about? Firmware attacks! Yes - malware has already reached printers. As they contain all typical parts of a computer and are equipped with net- working capabilities, they can cause trouble in networks the same way as what hujacked Windows PCs typically do. They can be turned into networked allies, carrying out the attackers orders within networks. Those who are interested may find some information here: Exclusive: Millions of printers open to devastating hack attack, researchers say http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395-exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack-attack-researchers-say ShmooCon 2011: Printers Gone Wild! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZgLX60U3sY#t=3m40s ShmooCon 2011: Printer to PWND: Leveraging Multifunction Printers During http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPhisPLwm2A Printer malware: print a malicious document, expose your whole LAN http://boingboing.net/2011/12/30/printer-malware-print-a-malic.html Print Me If You Dare Firmware Modification Attacks and the Rise of Printer Malware http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/Fahrplan/events/4780.en.html HP firmware to 'mitigate' LaserJet vulnerability http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57347817-83/hp-firmware-to-mitigate-laserjet-vulnerability/ It seems that printers can be infected via specific network traffic or closed-source malicious drivers (that nobody can examine content-wise) that will find their way to the device. Depending on your local legislation, that can develop into dangerous (and expensive) directions... 2. Standard language. Postscript and PCL. Make sure the printer understands at least one of them. or, alternatively, PDF (which some of the newer printers are reputed to take directly, rather than requiring the host to convert it to PS or PCL). Jerry mentioned this, and I think it's a feature worth demanding when buying a new printer. Still if PDF input is not possible, PCL or PS should be looked for. All those considerations make sure you can use the printer with _any_ OS you like, and due to this fact it will be usable even after the target OS will be out of support (and follow-up drivers won't be provided). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 04/01/12 19:29, Polytropon wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:01:43 -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I personally don't trust wireless, because it's well nigh impossible to truly secure it. In that case, one should also pay attention to secure the printer. Wait - secure the printer? What am I talking about? Firmware attacks! Yes - malware has already reached printers. As they contain all typical parts of a computer and are equipped with net- working capabilities, they can cause trouble in networks the same way as what hujacked Windows PCs typically do. They can be turned into networked allies, carrying out the attackers orders within networks. Those who are interested may find some information here: Exclusive: Millions of printers open to devastating hack attack, researchers say http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395-exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack-attack-researchers-say ShmooCon 2011: Printers Gone Wild! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZgLX60U3sY#t=3m40s ROFL! Sorry my mind went to an interesting place with this one images of printers on spring break flashing their cartridges, opening flaps to show off their drums... :D The content isn't funny though. They really should consider their headlines before releasing... ShmooCon 2011: Printer to PWND: Leveraging Multifunction Printers During http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPhisPLwm2A Printer malware: print a malicious document, expose your whole LAN http://boingboing.net/2011/12/30/printer-malware-print-a-malic.html Print Me If You Dare Firmware Modification Attacks and the Rise of Printer Malware http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/Fahrplan/events/4780.en.html HP firmware to 'mitigate' LaserJet vulnerability http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57347817-83/hp-firmware-to-mitigate-laserjet-vulnerability/ It seems that printers can be infected via specific network traffic or closed-source malicious drivers (that nobody can examine content-wise) that will find their way to the device. Depending on your local legislation, that can develop into dangerous (and expensive) directions... 2. Standard language. Postscript and PCL. Make sure the printer understands at least one of them. or, alternatively, PDF (which some of the newer printers are reputed to take directly, rather than requiring the host to convert it to PS or PCL). Jerry mentioned this, and I think it's a feature worth demanding when buying a new printer. Still if PDF input is not possible, PCL or PS should be looked for. All those considerations make sure you can use the printer with _any_ OS you like, and due to this fact it will be usable even after the target OS will be out of support (and follow-up drivers won't be provided). From my memory Xerox are pretty good with this. Besides schmoozing the printed graphics industry they've been a _big_ proponent of the Unix system; in particular the birth of X-Windows, and various print standards long before and after M$ came on the scene. They have still remained a strong supporter of the Unix and printing community. The Phaser is a good choice. Unfortunately they are a bit of an elite brand which puts them out of most home users price range :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 03/31/12 05:17, Warren Block wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2012, Karel Miklav wrote: Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? The Phaser 6500 has some good specifications. Genuine Adobe PostScript 3, gigabit Ethernet, 24 PPM. The duty cycle is 4,000 pages per month, which is very low. Toner is expensive. Reviews are somewhat mixed. It should work with FreeBSD, certainly for text. For graphics output, Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the 6500, but one of the similar printers probably will work. Don't expect photo quality, color lasers have to do halftones. Depending. Xerox C410 used a Fiery engine onboard which produced dramatic results- awesome photo quality I have yet to see even in an inkjet. Not sure what the Phasers are like though; they're not actually Xerox designed per se, but use the Xerox processes so hence the brand. Anyway, I digress. The critical point is the print engine- if it says Fiery grab it don't let go! :) Results may vary a little between brands, but anything with Fiery in it is better than without. And you don't need Gutenprint because thats what Gutenprint is attempting to emulate. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 03/31/12 07:23, Polytropon wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:36 +0200, Karel Miklav wrote: Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? Allow me to mention some things that are worth investing in. 1. Network connection. Don't bother with USB stuff. Buy a printer that offers Ethernet and maybe also WLAN, this will save you many trouble, and you are free to put the printer wherever you want. 2. Standard language. Postscript and PCL. Make sure the printer understands at least one of them. PCL is very common among HP printers. Regarding drivers - you don't need them. PS is the default output format for printing from every application. Printer filter collections such as apsfilter or CUPS tend to support non-PS printers very well, and it's quite easy to write your own printer filter (may even be a one-liner) using ghostscript. There's nothing wrong with PS because (as I said) you don't need any drivers, but the data transfer may need some time, and the processing speed depends on how fast and how good (!) the PS interpreter in the printer is. In my experience (with the printers I'm going to mention at the end of this message) PCL is faster. +1. +1 +1 +1 ;) A definite must! Cannot be emphasised enough; the others are manufacturer errors! 3. Laser printer. Don't believe that inkpee printers are genereally cheaper. They are not. The only excuse for using them is that you need photo quality color prints (requiring the proper paper, too). Usually by the time you need to replace a cartridge you may want to buy another printer- it will take you that long to go through the cartridge (4000 prints as opposed to the 40 in an inkjet that you _may_ get out of it). Remember you have to pay nearly the same amount _somewhere_; either through ink/toner or initial cost (or pain :) ). 4. Additional functionalities. Before buying something, ask yourself what you need. Does it need to have a scanner? Does the scanner part support FreeBSD? Is there a way to scan to local storage (e. g. USB stick) in the printer? Does it need a sheet feeder for scan input? Does it need to scan photo positive/negative films? Does it need to fax? I have had good luck with my army of laser printers here. HP Laserjet II, 4, 4000 duplex, as well as a Samsung color laserprinter CLX-2160. All this stuff works out of the box. I don't have any need for inkpee. Photos can be printed at much better quality at my local drugstore, if I need that. The printer filters are gs one-liners I wrote myself, because I speak PCL to the laser printer, and some splix gibberish using foo2qpdl to the (sadly USB connected) color printer. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 03/31/12 08:32, RW wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 Mike Jeays wrote: I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the lack of colour, IMO. How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the consumables become perishables. Quite well. Toner doesn't dry up :) Watch the older type fusers though- they can develop 'flat spots' on the rollers. The newer printers use a ceramic type fuser which has fast warm-up and no flat spot troubles. Also keep the dust low on _any_ printer and it will last longer and perform better. Dusty paper can cause major issues (both printing and mechanical) as well. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:17:52 +1000, Da Rock wrote: Watch the older type fusers though- they can develop 'flat spots' on the rollers. The newer printers use a ceramic type fuser which has fast warm-up and no flat spot troubles. But it's still possible to get replacement parts for older office printers. I said _office_ printers, even used ones that you can pick up for few dollars or a bottle of beer. Spare parts aren't expensive, and in many cases, you can install them yourself. The funny thing: Even for 10 years old printers (and even older ones), they are available. Try _that_ with a home consumer inkpee printer! :-) Also keep the dust low on _any_ printer and it will last longer and perform better. Dusty paper can cause major issues (both printing and mechanical) as well. Sometimes rubber parts tend to harden. There are a few tricks to make them soft again, but the typical solution is to replace them for few dollars. Note that this isn't something you'll notice in 2 - 5 years of use. You often need 10 or more years to find fail and trouble in a good printer. Good printer == office printer, as I said befire. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:08:57 +0700 Erich Dollansky articulated: I know a person who did this too. But for the purpose of saving money. It was during a time when new printers with refill have been cheaper than the refill. This guy actually saved money and has had the latest model. Kodak made a major change in their price structure to actually front load the cost of the printer while most other manufacturers still basically give away the printer with the expectations of making profit on the selling of the ink. Hence, many individuals, especially college students purchase cheap ink-jet printers that can actually rival the output of many high priced color laser units and simply discard them in six months when the ink runs dry. Plus, they have the functionality of being able to plug those ink-jets into virtually any Microsoft product, sans driver and still have a fully functional device. By the way, PS is going the way of the dodo bird. PDF is quickly becoming the printing norm. If you are going to spend a significant amount of money on a printing device, make sure it supports native PDF. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 03/31/12 21:32, Polytropon wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:17:52 +1000, Da Rock wrote: Watch the older type fusers though- they can develop 'flat spots' on the rollers. The newer printers use a ceramic type fuser which has fast warm-up and no flat spot troubles. But it's still possible to get replacement parts for older office printers. I said _office_ printers, even used ones that you can pick up for few dollars or a bottle of beer. Spare parts aren't expensive, and in many cases, you can install them yourself. The funny thing: Even for 10 years old printers (and even older ones), they are available. Try _that_ with a home consumer inkpee printer! :-) Also keep the dust low on _any_ printer and it will last longer and perform better. Dusty paper can cause major issues (both printing and mechanical) as well. Sometimes rubber parts tend to harden. There are a few tricks to make them soft again, but the typical solution is to replace them for few dollars. Note that this isn't something you'll notice in 2 - 5 years of use. You often need 10 or more years to find fail and trouble in a good printer. Good printer == office printer, as I said befire. :-) All absolutely true. My point was the few 'gotchas' for printers and what to watch for. Also the better features for new printers. I seem to remember using eucalyptus oil to revive cracked rubber - not that it happened much with the latest rubbers (2k+). A little alcohol cleaner will clean them up usually to get them going again for another 100 or so pages- usually a lot more :) You can also use a little mag polish on the exterior panels of the older ones to remove stubborn marks and make them look new again (unless they've gone mediteranean and been a bit sunburnt). Parts (for the old and new - trick is to find a supplier, a quick google will do) are a dime a dozen almost - can be touchier on the colour printers though, not that the parts on those wear out too quickly: you can usually expect 30k out of those parts anyway- a lifetime for those printers. Try and get a printer _designed_ to run 100k before servicing (like Kyocera), and you'll buy a new printer before buying a new cartridge (possibly). A 1010/1020 did that, I'm not sure what the (descendant) newer models are. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
Hello I use a HP LaserJet 1320n from a handicap workshop for some Euros. it works great. It is connected via internal LAN with a lot of features. I put it into the WLAN via an access point and a switch. No problems so far. Can also get connected via USB. ps works just fine. best regards Daniel Am 30.03.2012 17:38, schrieb Karel Miklav: Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? -- Thanks, Karel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:36 +0200, Karel Miklav wrote: Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice ... Allow me to mention some things that are worth investing in. 1. Network connection. Don't bother with USB stuff. Buy a printer that offers Ethernet +1 and maybe also WLAN, I personally don't trust wireless, because it's well nigh impossible to truly secure it. 2. Standard language. Postscript and PCL. Make sure the printer understands at least one of them. or, alternatively, PDF (which some of the newer printers are reputed to take directly, rather than requiring the host to convert it to PS or PCL). 3. Laser printer. Don't believe that inkpee printers are genereally cheaper. They are not. +1, especially if used only occasionally. If I needed a monochrome printer this weekend, I'd head for the local Fry's where they're advertising the (network duplex capable) Samsung ML-2955ND for $80. I haven't used that model, but it looks very similar to the (network-capable, but no duplex) ML-2571N that's been working just fine since I got it a few years ago. The only excuse for using them is that you need photo quality color prints (requiring the proper paper, too). I've gotten quite adequate printing of digital-camera photos from a Xerox Phaser 6130 (about $400 a few years ago IIRC). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On 31.03.2012 00:16, Peter A. Giessel wrote: On 2012, Mar 30, at 11:17, Warren Block wrote: It should work with FreeBSD, certainly for text. For graphics output, Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the 6500, but one of the similar printers probably will work. Don't expect photo quality, color lasers have to do halftones. I've requested a test printout, but they claim their 600 x 600 x 16 technology gives similar results than 1200 dpi inkjets. It doesn't surprise me that Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the 6500 because Xerox provides one: Uf, I have this idea to only use LPD and filters. I have a Phaser 6300 (older model), and it has worked well for every OS that I have thrown at it, including Mac, Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, iOS, etc. Echoing others, get a real postscript printer, get a real network printer (not USB), and get a laser printer (although Thermal Wax would also be acceptable). Just got an incredible deal, Xerox Phaser 6280V DN with toners for 2000+ pages for 362 EUR. That's exactly the price I've paid for ink in the last five years. I think I'll go with this one. Regards and thanks to everyone who chimed in with a piece of good advice. Karel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
Karel Miklav wrote:
Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD?
HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like
to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks
nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper
alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh?
Postscript printers make [more] sense If:
- Corporate use .. maybe ?
- Trying to offload connected PC CPU (rarely need to for home
use, now PCs are fast).
- Coms link to printer is slow
Worst case: I once had a serial cable to a serial
to parallel converter, then you notice how big PCL data is.
especially if doing own font rendering, not using printer
built in font sets, ( I made my own Russian font sets once).
So now CPU load no longer an issue, as
these days an ethernet to centronics type converter is cheap, connect
any old PCL laser with centronics (eg my Old HP 4L cost me ~ 3 beers)
Ghostscript converts { PS PDF etc } to PCL,
called automatically as a filter from /etc/printcap
I wrote my own filter,
http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/jhs/bin/local/lpf_vsl/lpf_vsl
before becoming aware there's a standard one:
/usr/ports/print/apsfilter
There's a section in the Handbook about CUPS you should read
For some new HP USB you want certain options in out of kernel.
Cheers,
Julian
--
Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, indent with .
Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable.
Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/
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Re: Printer recommendation please
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 Mike Jeays articulated: I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the lack of colour, IMO. I have used an HP 1020 for three years now, and it works fine after three cartridges. I had an inkjet fail at the first cartridge change, after I bought new cartridges. (EPSON - never again). I know several students that purchase inexpensive ink-jet printers that work perfectly. When the ink runs out, they just replace the unit. The cost is about the same. I could replace probably four cheap ink-jet units for what it is gong to cost me just to replace the cartridges in my Brother Laser Color unit. Then when you factor in the other parts that eventually will need replacement, it really gets expensive. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:36 +0200, Karel Miklav wrote: Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? Allow me to mention some things that are worth investing in. 1. Network connection. Don't bother with USB stuff. Buy a printer that offers Ethernet and maybe also WLAN, this will save you many trouble, and you are free to put the printer wherever you want. 2. Standard language. Postscript and PCL. Make sure the printer understands at least one of them. PCL is very common among HP printers. Regarding drivers - you don't need them. PS is the default output format for printing from every application. Printer filter collections such as apsfilter or CUPS tend to support non-PS printers very well, and it's quite easy to write your own printer filter (may even be a one-liner) using ghostscript. There's nothing wrong with PS because (as I said) you don't need any drivers, but the data transfer may need some time, and the processing speed depends on how fast and how good (!) the PS interpreter in the printer is. In my experience (with the printers I'm going to mention at the end of this message) PCL is faster. 3. Laser printer. Don't believe that inkpee printers are genereally cheaper. They are not. The only excuse for using them is that you need photo quality color prints (requiring the proper paper, too). 4. Additional functionalities. Before buying something, ask yourself what you need. Does it need to have a scanner? Does the scanner part support FreeBSD? Is there a way to scan to local storage (e. g. USB stick) in the printer? Does it need a sheet feeder for scan input? Does it need to scan photo positive/negative films? Does it need to fax? I have had good luck with my army of laser printers here. HP Laserjet II, 4, 4000 duplex, as well as a Samsung color laserprinter CLX-2160. All this stuff works out of the box. I don't have any need for inkpee. Photos can be printed at much better quality at my local drugstore, if I need that. The printer filters are gs one-liners I wrote myself, because I speak PCL to the laser printer, and some splix gibberish using foo2qpdl to the (sadly USB connected) color printer. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 Mike Jeays wrote: I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the lack of colour, IMO. How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the consumables become perishables. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012, RW wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 Mike Jeays wrote: I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the lack of colour, IMO. How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the consumables become perishables. In exactly that scenario, ink nozzles can dry out, rendering your inkjet printer inoperable. I only print every few weeks, and if I had to replace ink for every print just because it dried out, I think I might become angry. My laser printer works even after months of inactivity. For the record, I completely agree with Mike. I also would not buy a printer that did not speak Postscript. My PS-speaking LaserJet was working as fast as I could edit /etc/printcap - no CUPS, no drivers, no ghostscript, no filters. -- Chris Hill ch...@monochrome.org ** [ Busy Expunging / ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Printer recommendation please
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Karel Miklav Sent: 30 March 2012 16:39 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Printer recommendation please Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? -- Thanks, Karel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Not exactly conclusive, I have a Dell 1320C with the Ethernet module, and while I have never needed to connect it to one of my FreeBSD machines, it would work with OS X and CUPS, since then Dell has released an official driver for OS X. However I am not sure as to how much use an OS X driver would be for FreeBSD, for £90 I am satisfied with its performance. Regards Graeme ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Printer recommendation please
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 Mike Jeays wrote: I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the lack of colour, IMO. How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the consumables become perishables. Toner really doesn't go bad, and good laser printers are built to last. My first laser printer was an HP LaserJet 5P that my local bank branch was throwing away in 2003. It ran on its existing toner cartridge for 5 or 6 years under light use - maybe 500 pages per year. Matt ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 00:12:07 -0400, Matt Emmerton wrote: Toner really doesn't go bad, and good laser printers are built to last. My first laser printer was an HP LaserJet 5P that my local bank branch was throwing away in 2003. It ran on its existing toner cartridge for 5 or 6 years under light use - maybe 500 pages per year. Ha, that's nothing! I _still_ have a fully functional HP Laserjet 4. I got it in a heavily used state in 1996, and I've never treated it in a polite way: always quite heavy use. The printer is still working today, after more than 15 years. It has been on pause for some years, and right after plugging it in again, it produced regular quality results. Just try _that_ with typical home consumer inkpee stuff. :-) I can't tell you how many pages the printer has done in its life. The page counter must have encountered an overrun and now says some 4 digit number which doesn't increase anymore. So now I can sell it as only few pages printed, like new... :-) If durability is interesting, buying a laser printer will be the right choice. Today's inkpee printers seem to be the same price as a full ink cartridge refill (or even lower), creating cheaper devices on one hand (good), but creating more electronic waste at the other hand (bad). So if you want to reduce garbage, get a printer that will serve you for a long time. When I was at university, there was a student, a rich one as one could assume: When he had emptied a printer, he bought a new one, dropping the old one into the garbage can. He even bought a new printer when he failed to plug in the one he just bought, and he also bought a new one when he didn't get the drivers installed of another new printer. He threw away two (maybe more?) fully functional printers. You see, money can compensate stupidity. His educational result? He got a degree in computer science. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
RW rwmailli...@googlemail.com wrote: Mike Jeays wrote: I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the lack of colour, IMO. How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the consumables become perishables. Laser 'consumables' do _not_ suffer problems if the printer is only used occasionally. This is, in fact, one of the *BIG* advantaes of lasers over inkpee units. The 'cost per page' of output, at the rated pagecount is substantially lower for lasers, *AND* you will get the rated pagecount, even if it takes a decade, or longer. I've got a low-end laser I bought, *used*, over a decade ago. I have -yet- to replace the _used_ toner cartridge that came with the printer. Print quality is still as good as when I got it. My 'total cost of ownership' is, so far, around $3/year, and _declining_. Or, under two cents per page, _including_ the cost of the hardware. With inkpee printers you have to print a some pages every couple of weeks (preferably somewhat more often) or you run a _high_ probability of the cartridge having gotten 'gummed up', and rendered unusable, *despite* the amount of ink remaining in it. In 'lightly used' units, this can result in a _tripling_ (or more) of the (already high) 'true cost' per page of output. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
Hi, On Saturday 31 March 2012 11:28:55 Polytropon wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 00:12:07 -0400, Matt Emmerton wrote: When I was at university, there was a student, a rich one as one could assume: When he had emptied a printer, he bought a new one, dropping the old one into the garbage can. He even bought a new printer when he failed to plug in the one he just bought, and he also bought a new one when he didn't get the drivers installed of another new printer. He threw away two (maybe more?) fully functional printers. I know a person who did this too. But for the purpose of saving money. It was during a time when new printers with refill have been cheaper than the refill. This guy actually saved money and has had the latest model. I do not know if the pricing is still this strange. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Printer recommendation please
Hi, On Saturday 31 March 2012 11:12:07 Matt Emmerton wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 Mike Jeays wrote: I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the lack of colour, IMO. How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the consumables become perishables. Toner really doesn't go bad, and good laser printers are built to last. My first laser printer was an HP LaserJet 5P that my local bank branch was throwing away in 2003. It ran on its existing toner cartridge for 5 or 6 years under light use - maybe 500 pages per year. yes, take a laser. Inkjets just dry out before the next use. You need then to take some time to fix it. I have had only one in my life. I thought it was a good buy until I realised this problem. My first laser printer was a IIP running for at least a decade until the electronics gave way. I just realised that I have had no laser printer failing mechanically. The problem might will be to find a cheap one which works with FreeBSD. Friends bought the cheapest Samsung AIO. It did not give them any problems running Linux. Erich Matt ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
