Re: FreeBSD for the common man(or woman) (was: upgrade 7.2 overwrites partitions)
On Thursday 06 August 2009 09:43:47 Mark Stapper wrote: In light of this, I would really enjoy seeing a Ubuntu like movement in the FreeBSD corner. What I mean is that it would be nice for my mother to install and use FreeBSD. [snip] To achieve this, there are two things that should be made easier: 1. Installing a basic desktop system(next to any currently installed OS) 2. Keeping the base system and ports up to date. And when I mean easier I mean it should be done without bothering the user unless you about to rm -rf / as root, so to say. This is what a couple of projects are already doing. PC-BSD springs to mind - I can't remember what the other one is called. PC-BSD is FreeBSD, pre-packaged with a usable desktop and its own simplified package manager. Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD for the common man(or woman) (was: upgrade 7.2 overwrites partitions)
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:56 AM, Jonathan McKeownj.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: On Thursday 06 August 2009 09:43:47 Mark Stapper wrote: In light of this, I would really enjoy seeing a Ubuntu like movement in the FreeBSD corner. What I mean is that it would be nice for my mother to install and use FreeBSD. [snip] To achieve this, there are two things that should be made easier: 1. Installing a basic desktop system(next to any currently installed OS) 2. Keeping the base system and ports up to date. And when I mean easier I mean it should be done without bothering the user unless you about to rm -rf / as root, so to say. This is what a couple of projects are already doing. PC-BSD springs to mind - I can't remember what the other one is called. DesktopBSD PC-BSD is FreeBSD, pre-packaged with a usable desktop and its own simplified package manager. Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD for the common man(or woman) (was: upgrade 7.2 overwrites partitions)
In light of this, I would really enjoy seeing a Ubuntu like movement in the FreeBSD corner. What I mean is that it would be nice for my mother to install and use FreeBSD. I am not saying that a Windows user should be able to feel right at home on a box running FreeBSD, but a computer user should. The problem herein, i am afraid, lies not with FreeBSD(or any other BSD flavour), nor with it's community, but with the computer user. Most computer users see an operating system(and the application they run most) as part of a computer. How many people say My computer is broken when µ$ Office doesn't start anymore. They don't care about which kernel they run, or which browser they use, they care about typing e-mail, chatting and watching youtube video's. (However sad it makes me that most people use less then 10% of the features/programs/potential/computing-power the computer came with, they do make sure we pay less for our components.) Even though I'd feel less cool or nerdy (which is basically the same thing ;-) ) if I'd run(or USE) the same OS as my 76 year old grandfather, it would be nice for him to be able to buy a computer for $20 less because it runs FreeBSD. To achieve this, there are two things that should be made easier: 1. Installing a basic desktop system(next to any currently installed OS) 2. Keeping the base system and ports up to date. And when I mean easier I mean it should be done without bothering the user unless you about to rm -rf / as root, so to say. Since most people never reinstall their computer, making it easier to install a basic desktop system won't help my 76 year old grandpa, but it will make it easier for unsatisfied Windows users to try FreeBSD. Besides, in making it easy to install a basic desktop system, comes the hardest part of any *nix like system: defining a basic desktop and collecting the basic/standard applications. It's hard just to pick either one Gnome, KDE or XFCE (or iceWM ;-) ) let alone mail-clients, internet browsers, IM, etc. etc. One of the advantages of using a descent operating system is the freedom of choice. However most users don't care! I am more then happy to tel anyone which e-mail client not to use (Lotus notes, outlook express, anyone else's neck hears standing up?), but I don't want to tell people they HAVE to use Thunderbird(I do tell them they SHOULD but that's different) or evolution etc. The problem is, most people don't want to make this choice either. And the circle of life continues. So basically, to make sure people will be using freeBSD (or any *nix operating system) it needs to be easy to install (So that PC-manufacturers will ship their pc's with it), a nicely filled standard desktop environment with lot's of youtube/chat/word process capabilities and I won't bother you with it but i'm updating functionality. Just some thoughts.. I'll get back to work now... ... I must say that I find this (new) thread a bit funny since it was inspired by a guy (the OP) who has been using fBSD for many years (over 5 . . . I can't remember the exact number). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD for the common man(or woman) (was: upgrade 7.2 overwrites partitions)
[snip] In light of this, I would really enjoy seeing a Ubuntu like movement in the FreeBSD corner. What I mean is that it would be nice for my mother to install and use FreeBSD. I am not saying that a Windows user should be able to feel right at home on a box running FreeBSD, but a computer user should. The problem herein, i am afraid, lies not with FreeBSD(or any other BSD flavour), nor with it's community, but with the computer user. Most computer users see an operating system(and the application they run most) as part of a computer. How many people say My computer is broken when µ$ Office doesn't start anymore. They don't care about which kernel they run, or which browser they use, they care about typing e-mail, chatting and watching youtube video's. (However sad it makes me that most people use less then 10% of the features/programs/potential/computing-power the computer came with, they do make sure we pay less for our components.) Even though I'd feel less cool or nerdy (which is basically the same thing ;-) ) if I'd run(or USE) the same OS as my 76 year old grandfather, it would be nice for him to be able to buy a computer for $20 less because it runs FreeBSD. To achieve this, there are two things that should be made easier: 1. Installing a basic desktop system(next to any currently installed OS) 2. Keeping the base system and ports up to date. And when I mean easier I mean it should be done without bothering the user unless you about to rm -rf / as root, so to say. Since most people never reinstall their computer, making it easier to install a basic desktop system won't help my 76 year old grandpa, but it will make it easier for unsatisfied Windows users to try FreeBSD. Besides, in making it easy to install a basic desktop system, comes the hardest part of any *nix like system: defining a basic desktop and collecting the basic/standard applications. It's hard just to pick either one Gnome, KDE or XFCE (or iceWM ;-) ) let alone mail-clients, internet browsers, IM, etc. etc. One of the advantages of using a descent operating system is the freedom of choice. However most users don't care! I am more then happy to tel anyone which e-mail client not to use (Lotus notes, outlook express, anyone else's neck hears standing up?), but I don't want to tell people they HAVE to use Thunderbird(I do tell them they SHOULD but that's different) or evolution etc. The problem is, most people don't want to make this choice either. And the circle of life continues. So basically, to make sure people will be using freeBSD (or any *nix operating system) it needs to be easy to install (So that PC-manufacturers will ship their pc's with it), a nicely filled standard desktop environment with lot's of youtube/chat/word process capabilities and I won't bother you with it but i'm updating functionality. [/snip] What you're talking about is indeed needed and does, to an extent, exist; It's called PC-BSD, Ubuntu (as you mentioned) or even Microsoft Windows. I think it's great that such things exist. (Yes, even Windows.) I think it's great that they can help people, who would otherwise be helpless, use a computer to get their work done. I even applaud the efforts of the tyrannical Microsoft for largely accomplishing this feat. Hats off to all involved! But it doesn't end here... On the other end of the coin there is also a need for an operating system which does exactly what I, the user, commands it to do, regardless of what that could mean. For some things, I need a system which trusts me, the user, to make the right decisions. Knowing this, I must be willing to accept the consequences of my actions, should my choices prove to be incorrect. If you prevent stupid people from doing stupid things, you prevent clever people from doing clever things. While one cannot throw any philosophy, in a blind fashion, at a given problem, there is some truth to the statement. Both types of systems are needed, and I sincerely hope that both continue to exist. -Modulok- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD for the common man(or woman) (was: upgrade 7.2 overwrites partitions)
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:56:59 +0200, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: PC-BSD is FreeBSD, pre-packaged with a usable desktop and its own simplified package manager. If you're talking about PBI, that's what the average user expects: You open a web browser (d'oh), search for what you think will be the software you need (plus-d'oh) and download it (doubleplus-d'oh). As long as you use PBI only, there's no interference with ports or packages, but you are not encouraged to use a mix, allthough it's mostly possible. Don't get me wrong: I have several friends who use PC-BSD for years happily now, but it's definitely not my cup of tea for several reasons. PC-BSD does probide a KDE-based preconfigured environment and lots of preinstalled software. It's completely sufficient for the average user, allthough not for the average user in Germany, because KDE's internationalisation is not so good (Gnome's is better, as far as I've seen), and not all PBI packages do conform to the language setting (e. g. install in German, install kmplayer, it will be in English, and error messages will be in English, too, that scares the average German user away). -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
