Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:04:22 -0600, Paul Schmehl pschmehl_li...@tx.rr.com wrote: --On Friday, December 11, 2009 07:59:00 -0600 Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: I suppose this falls under the works for me category - I haven't ever used HAL on FreeBSD. I have, and I would say that it's not quite ready for primetime. So I'm back to manual configuration and happy about it. Paul, you're mentioning an important choice the developer of an OS or the distributor of a specific software compilation has to make: (a) No configuration (equals user configuration) This choice makes sure that the user can set all parameters to fit his particular needs. He isn't hindered to do so. (b) Pre-configuration With this choice, the one who set the defaults has a very high responsibility. In most cases, a certain target group is assumed, and so the parameters are defined. This may lead to the problem that the result doesn't fit in other settings. (c) Auto-configuration This often works, but involves a certain overhead that does the automatic detection. Furthermore, not everything gets detected correctly, or detected at all. The result can be an only partially configured system, even being unusable. This is the case especially with hardware that is not up to date, or just too new. Hardware that doesn't conform to existing and assumed standards leads to the same results. In the past, X was defaulting to (a), giving you the choice of (c) by command, and you could modify its result in case of errors. I would say this was the case with XFree86 and early X.org (when e. g. I could run my screen by xorg.conf at 1400x1050, now I need xrandr in .xinitrc to do so because X only allows 1152x864). Overall speed is another topic, of course. The FreeBSD OS, on the other hand, follows approach (a) and aids the user with (b) - the defaults are intendedly and wisely chosen, so they usually don't cause problems, because they don't assume something stupid, like The user will want to have a web server included, and enabled by default. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:24:29 -0600, Paul Schmehl pschmehl_li...@tx.rr.com wrote: --On December 12, 2009 10:31:59 AM -0600 Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: The FreeBSD OS, on the other hand, follows approach (a) and aids the user with (b) - the defaults are intendedly and wisely chosen, so they usually don't cause problems, because they don't assume something stupid, like The user will want to have a web server included, and enabled by default. :-) Or the user can't possibly maintain the server without a GUI interface.. Oh yes, I just forgot that it's common corporate guideline to have the users maintain the server. :-) I have FreeBSD servers that have 30 ports installed. My desktop has 714. It should be up to me what runs on the box, not the manufacturer. But finally, that's what average users are expecting. I completely agree with you. Maybe it's some work needed to get exactly what you want, but finally, you GOT it, and without the need to install things you do not use, occupying disk space and needing your attention. This situation - being up to date, especially in regards of security - is very important on servers. I don't need a ton of cruft to run a single application that does some sort of task for me. For such a situation - and if you really want it - PC-BSD is the right choice. Still it's FreeBSD under the hood that lets you solve problems and correct non-working things by yourself, instead of just claiming that's not possible or not supported. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
--On December 12, 2009 10:31:59 AM -0600 Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: The FreeBSD OS, on the other hand, follows approach (a) and aids the user with (b) - the defaults are intendedly and wisely chosen, so they usually don't cause problems, because they don't assume something stupid, like The user will want to have a web server included, and enabled by default. :-) Or the user can't possibly maintain the server without a GUI interface.. I have FreeBSD servers that have 30 ports installed. My desktop has 714. It should be up to me what runs on the box, not the manufacturer. I don't need a ton of cruft to run a single application that does some sort of task for me. Even the webservers I maintain have less than 60 ports installed. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
On Friday 11 December 2009 08:17:06 Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:38:04 -0700 (MST), Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: Please see the Handbook section on X11 configuration instead: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html Just a side question: 5.4.2 Note 2 § 5 states: You will have to reboot your machine to force hald to read this file. which refers to /usr/local/etc/hal/fdi/policy/x11-input.fdi that re-enables Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to kill X. Is it really, really needed to reboot the machine? Can't HAL just be restarted? I always thought reboot to make a minor setting work was the domain of Windows... At the risk of me-tooing, I also wondered about this. It seems insane to have to restart the OS and hardware to reread a config file. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: On Thu, 10 Dec 2009, Glen Barber wrote: On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:55 PM, mpd m...@jesters-court.net wrote: I just updated my system from 7.2 to 8.0 STABLE. What do I need to do to make my mouse work in X again? This system has an unbroken chain of fbsd since 2.2.6, but I'm about to drop it due to this. This is horrible. Since you have given no information on what the symptoms are, nor on what you have tried, I'll take a long-shot here: Have a look ate the 20090124/20090123 entries of /usr/ports/UPDATING That information was current a year ago, but is outdated now. Please see the Handbook section on X11 configuration instead: UPDATING is a more familiar source of reference for those without a working Xorg - even moreso if they only have one machine. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html More specifically, AllowEmptyInput is a source of problems: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2009-December/003807.html I suppose this falls under the works for me category - I haven't ever used HAL on FreeBSD. -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
Warren Block wrote: On Thu, 10 Dec 2009, Glen Barber wrote: On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:55 PM, mpd m...@jesters-court.net wrote: I just updated my system from 7.2 to 8.0 STABLE. What do I need to do to make my mouse work in X again? This system has an unbroken chain of fbsd since 2.2.6, but I'm about to drop it due to this. This is horrible. Since you have given no information on what the symptoms are, nor on what you have tried, I'll take a long-shot here: Have a look ate the 20090124/20090123 entries of /usr/ports/UPDATING That information was current a year ago, but is outdated now. Please see the Handbook section on X11 configuration instead: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html More specifically, AllowEmptyInput is a source of problems: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2009-December/003807.html That is, if you think HAL can be fixed. A deluded assumption in my opinion. HAL is broken by design and should not be activated. -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:38:04 -0700 (MST), Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: Please see the Handbook section on X11 configuration instead: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html Just a side question: 5.4.2 Note 2 ? 5 states: You will have to reboot your machine to force hald to read this file. which refers to /usr/local/etc/hal/fdi/policy/x11-input.fdi that re-enables Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to kill X. Is it really, really needed to reboot the machine? Can't HAL just be restarted? I always thought reboot to make a minor setting work was the domain of Windows... I had the same question a while back: http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=595146+0+archive/2009/freebsd-doc/20091101.freebsd-doc -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
--On Friday, December 11, 2009 07:59:00 -0600 Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: I suppose this falls under the works for me category - I haven't ever used HAL on FreeBSD. I have, and I would say that it's not quite ready for primetime. So I'm back to manual configuration and happy about it. -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason as to administer medication to the dead. Thomas Jefferson ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
I just updated my system from 7.2 to 8.0 STABLE. What do I need to do to make my mouse work in X again? This system has an unbroken chain of fbsd since 2.2.6, but I'm about to drop it due to this. This is horrible. Please respond directly. I dropped this list in the '90s. peace, -mpd ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:55 PM, mpd m...@jesters-court.net wrote: I just updated my system from 7.2 to 8.0 STABLE. What do I need to do to make my mouse work in X again? This system has an unbroken chain of fbsd since 2.2.6, but I'm about to drop it due to this. This is horrible. Since you have given no information on what the symptoms are, nor on what you have tried, I'll take a long-shot here: Have a look ate the 20090124/20090123 entries of /usr/ports/UPDATING -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:19:43PM -0500, Glen Barber wrote: On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:55 PM, mpd m...@jesters-court.net wrote: I just updated my system from 7.2 to 8.0 STABLE. What do I need to do to make my mouse work in X again? This system has an unbroken chain of fbsd since 2.2.6, but I'm about to drop it due to this. This is horrible. Since you have given no information on what the symptoms are, nor on what you have tried, I'll take a long-shot here: Have a look ate the 20090124/20090123 entries of /usr/ports/UPDATING Option AllowEmptyInput off was the fix. Thanks! -- Glen Barber -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009, Glen Barber wrote: On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:55 PM, mpd m...@jesters-court.net wrote: I just updated my system from 7.2 to 8.0 STABLE. What do I need to do to make my mouse work in X again? This system has an unbroken chain of fbsd since 2.2.6, but I'm about to drop it due to this. This is horrible. Since you have given no information on what the symptoms are, nor on what you have tried, I'll take a long-shot here: Have a look ate the 20090124/20090123 entries of /usr/ports/UPDATING That information was current a year ago, but is outdated now. Please see the Handbook section on X11 configuration instead: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html More specifically, AllowEmptyInput is a source of problems: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2009-December/003807.html -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: upgraded to 8, no mouse is broken
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:38:04 -0700 (MST), Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: Please see the Handbook section on X11 configuration instead: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html Just a side question: 5.4.2 Note 2 § 5 states: You will have to reboot your machine to force hald to read this file. which refers to /usr/local/etc/hal/fdi/policy/x11-input.fdi that re-enables Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to kill X. Is it really, really needed to reboot the machine? Can't HAL just be restarted? I always thought reboot to make a minor setting work was the domain of Windows... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
