Re: [ft-devel] Something in 2.6.4 broke my windows (Re: Freetype-devel Digest, Vol 138, Issue 9)

2016-07-07 Thread Nikolaus Waxweiler 

I don't seem to have the very beginning of this thread so it is a bit
difficult to see what's going on, anyway, there are a few things I
like to respond to...


That's because Martin sent me a private mail first that I quoted and 
CC'd to the mailing list. I figured I'd have complaints like that sooner 
or later, anyway, so I wanted to discuss them publicly.



That's not true - BTW, I keep my wine installation quite up to date
to wine's bi-weekly release schedule. My wine install has a couple of
permanently-non-streamed patches, so I upgrade about once a month.
Wine has had its own version of the MS fonts for many years now. They
work okay, and are metric-identical to their genuine counter parts, I
think. [...]


Okay, so I actually wanted to say that the Wine packages I know usually 
pull in the old core web fonts, so lots of users have them.



That was what I was commenting on a few days ago - while it is nice
to merge all the hard work - it seems  a bit drastic to switch it on
by default.


To quote myself: "The new look has the objective advantage that 
different fonts render much more harmoniously even when the hinting is 
shoddy by discarding an entire axis that happens to be important for 
horizontal text like what you're reading right now. That's why I think 
it's the objectively better choice for a default". Millions of Windows 
users look at similar font rendering every day. I know it's a jarring 
change to users that are used to what was previously, but I think it's a 
necessary step because the old way was unsatisfactory in several ways.



The original poster appears to want it system-wide, from the later
post :-). I think he needs my patch above...


Or set the variable system-wide ;)


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Re: [ft-devel] Something in 2.6.4 broke my windows (Re: Freetype-devel Digest, Vol 138, Issue 9)

2016-07-07 Thread Nikolay Sivov 
On 07.07.2016 19:56, Hin-Tak Leung wrote:
> I don't seem to have the very beginning of this thread so it is a bit 
> difficult to see what's going on, anyway, there are
> a few things I like to respond to...
> 
> 
> On Thu, 7/7/16, freetype-devel-requ...@nongnu.org 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>  From: Nikolaus Waxweiler 
> 
>> I think everyone with Wine installed has Microsoft's fonts
>  :)
> 
> That's not true - BTW, I keep my wine installation quite up to date to wine's 
> bi-weekly release schedule. My wine install has a couple of 
> permanently-non-streamed patches, so I upgrade about once a month. Wine has 
> had its own version of the MS fonts for many years now. They work okay, and 
> are metric-identical to their genuine counter parts, I think. I do have the 
> genuine Microsoft fonts in my hard disk, but they are not hooked up to my 
> display system, at all.
> My display system uses the wine version of those fonts.

That's misleading. Wine only provides Tahoma, Tahoma Bold, and a couple
of symbol fonts - Symbol, Marlett, Wingdings. None of them are hinted,
for Tahoma we have embedded bitmaps for certain commonly used sizes.

Common scenarios of using MS fonts with Wine are:

- installed corefonts package because application explicitly wants
  certain specific font (original WPF framework for example);
- Microsoft Office, that installs a lot of fonts on its own.

So no, not everyone with Wine uses MS fonts, but it happens quite often.

If previous behaviour for engine v38 will be kept, it's easy to switch
over to it, if new code produces disturbing results with some of MS
fonts. And if it's unexpected results, it should be fixed imho.


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Re: [ft-devel] Something in 2.6.4 broke my windows (Re: Freetype-devel Digest, Vol 138, Issue 9)

2016-07-07 Thread Hin-Tak Leung 
I don't seem to have the very beginning of this thread so it is a bit difficult 
to see what's going on, anyway, there are
a few things I like to respond to...


On Thu, 7/7/16, freetype-devel-requ...@nongnu.org 
 wrote:


 From: Nikolaus Waxweiler 

> I think everyone with Wine installed has Microsoft's fonts
 :)

That's not true - BTW, I keep my wine installation quite up to date to wine's 
bi-weekly release schedule. My wine install has a couple of 
permanently-non-streamed patches, so I upgrade about once a month. Wine has had 
its own version of the MS fonts for many years now. They work okay, and are 
metric-identical to their genuine counter parts, I think. I do have the genuine 
Microsoft fonts in my hard disk, but they are not hooked up to my display 
system, at all.
My display system uses the wine version of those fonts.


> I don't know of a clean way to handle this in FreeType and I
 frankly 
 have little interest in bringing the "old" look back to the
 foreground 
 as I'm more of a DirectWrite/ClearType person :)
 

That was what I was commenting on a few days ago - while it is nice to merge 
all the hard work - it seems  a bit drastic to switch it on by default.


I do have  a patch sitting in my hard disk which revert the default change (and 
still keeping the capability to switch it on via property_set).
 
it is just this:
===
commit ea9763c8ec26dd009121afae27823c7cf5fe5386
Author: Hin-Tak Leung 
Date:   Wed Jul 6 02:13:19 2016 +0100

Do not switch on subpixel-hinting even if compiled in

diff --git a/src/truetype/ttobjs.c b/src/truetype/ttobjs.c
index ed3be2d..fb4dc63 100644
--- a/src/truetype/ttobjs.c
+++ b/src/truetype/ttobjs.c
@@ -1289,10 +1289,14 @@
 
 driver->interpreter_version = TT_INTERPRETER_VERSION_35;
 #ifdef TT_SUPPORT_SUBPIXEL_HINTING_INFINALITY
+/*
 driver->interpreter_version = TT_INTERPRETER_VERSION_38;
+*/
 #endif
 #ifdef TT_SUPPORT_SUBPIXEL_HINTING_MINIMAL
+/*
 driver->interpreter_version = TT_INTERPRETER_VERSION_40;
+*/
 #endif
 
 #else /* !TT_USE_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER */
===


 --
 
 From: Werner LEMBERG 

> Hmm.  I can imagine to have (optional) environment
 variable support in
 FreeType to provide default values for font driver
 properties, e.g.
 
   FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=35
 \
                
       cff:no-stem-darkening=1 \
                
       autofitter:warping=1



The original poster appears to want it system-wide, from the later post :-). I 
think he needs my patch above...


> What do you think?  Due to a linking problem on OS X I
 have to release
 a new FreeType version quite soon, and I could add this
 rather easily
 by implementing a hook into `FT_Init_FreeType' that simply
 calls
 `FT_Property_Set'.


I have just finished cross-compiling libpng for Mac OS X (which freetype 
depends on) and about to cross compile freetype for OS X also. What's the 
issue? I probably will find out in an hour or two when I get to it? 

 
 
 
 From: "Martin \"eto\" Misuth" 
 
> Strange thing about this is, that gtk2 program and qt5
 program windows don't
 explode, and such applications display fonts in window
 controls normally, but
 Gecko engines and some things (yes, I am too lazy check
 again) do have problems,
 indeed.


Much of Freetype's behavior is dynamically changeable, so application which 
depends on it can make their own choices. Maybe it is just gtk2 + qt5 chose 
differently from gecko.

 
 
 > I was reffering to this email from Werner I found:
 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.fonts.freetype.devel/10497
 
Yes, the infinality special font treatment list is in src/truetype/ttsubpix.c

 > And, well it breaks rendering to almost unreadable levels
 indeed. So I would
 say it is kind of "critical".
 
You could always downgrade freetype back to 2.6.3, you know :-). There is a 
price to pay staying *too* up-to-date...


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