Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
I was all ready to point out that administrators (at least on en.wiki, theoretically) discount comments like that, but that was *not* done in this case per the closing summary. Nepenthe On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Sarah slimvir...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:36, Sarah Stierch sa...@sarahstierch.comwrote: If anyone is interested in contributing to the decisions made about what goes up on the front page of Commons, please visit here, I just found out about this today, and I look forward to contributing: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Featured_picture_candidates One of the reasons for approving the image of the day was because the featured fictional person had big tits. The breasts were indeed a factor, and one comment in favour was i like her big tits. The old discussion is here -- http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Featured_picture_candidates/candidate_listoldid=48076437#File:On_the_edge_-_free_world_version.jpg.2C_featured Sarah ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
Fred, as I've already noted, the offending comment was apparently *not*eliminated from the final tally of the votes made by George Chernilevsky, though omitting it would not have changed the outcome of the vote. Nepenthe On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: --- On Wed, 18/5/11, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: From: Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt Subject: Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, 18 May, 2011, 12:54 Andreas, Again: Stop canvassing your POV!!! This list (and Commons-l) are not for that. That is my last warning This list was set up to discuss systemic issues in Foundation projects. In the opinion of several contributors here, this specific issue is profoundly symptomatic of the issue this list was set up to discuss. I doubt women generally support censorship or benefit from it. This includes Commons selecting images for featured status on the basis of comments like I like her big tits, rather than artistic merit, and then featuring them on the main page. You've been informed several times that such remarks are discounted when discussions are evaluated. Fred ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedystka
I'm curious; which feminists are these? I've never encountered that line of reasoning. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: It seems we may be coming full circle, in that an increasing number of feminist women are seeking to return to the sex-differentiated terms. Risker/Anne ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] the state of civility on en.wiki
Well, I'm inclined to agree with the defense brigade. How *dare* you think of taking action against such a fantastic contributor!? I mean, you Kaldari, like every other administrator, has never done *anything* to help the encyclopedia! Why do you not bow down before the content contributors? You are merely a high school student on a power trip! /sarcasm By god I hate that man. But there's nothing any one can do about it, as far as I can tell. He has a few admins to in his pocket and no block will ever stick. This incident will only fuel his delusions of persecution. I'm predicting even heavier whinging about how adminship is terrible idea because they might block *him*, as if there's any chance of that. Nepenthe On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote: RANT START If these people were behaving the way they do on other websites (i.e. Facebook, certain forums, whatever) or in other educational environments (such as universities, museums) or tech firms (i.e. WMF staff, Google) - they'd eventually be thrown out the door with perhaps even a legal case against them depending on the words they use and the behavior they emit. I'm not saying 24, 2 week, 1 year blocks are the key, I really don't know about that. The internet is safe harbor for assholes because people can chose anonymity. I believe that Wikipedia is failing to be a welcome and safe environment because certain groups of users actively support the keep of these said assholes. I often say to people take it to Encyclopedia Dramatica. There are places where this type of behavior is welcome, and the fact that Wikipedia has become one of those places, is really appalling. I'd rather have ten new users that need to learn about policy and are receptive to learning about it than 1 jerk user who calls people idiots (or worse) who contributes vast quantities of quality content. And frankly, when you act like an asshole in a repeat-offender manner, and people fail to speak up about it, or people fail to make that user see that they aren't making for a civil environment (with effort followed by failure) - what are you stuck with? Waiting for some big drama like MEN'S RIGHTS to erupt or wait until we have another example of about 20 women who proceeded to tell me about the stalkers they've had? It's tiring, and the activities and name calling I see (and on Commons, where there is little done to correct bad behavior) EVERY DAY makes me question if I'm wasting my time. Then I think about the amazing people I've met and continue to meet and the mission of WIkipedia and I have chosen to make this a better place. Across the board most users want a welcome friendly environment. There's always going to be a jerk, but, why should those of us who want civility have to pay the price. And that whole ignore it concept is one I stopped getting behind years ago in some regards. I get tired of saying Oh, ok, I'll let it go. And trying to change the system or rid the community of someone's behavior doesn't mean you have to be vocal about it - you can report it, you an share it with other users, and just by letting people know what's happening can make a bigger impact than ignoring it and being silenced. What are people supposed to do? People are also afraid to do things like speak out, which means that there is a problem. This is one of my favorite punk rock songs of all time: Viva La Revolution by the Adicts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3zBor3A8s0 and it sums up what I feel needs to happen at Wikipedia and it all ends with the revolutionaries drinking the rich man's wine. Sounds good to me. Sarah Who believes in the if you won't say it to my face, don't say it on the internet, idea. And also believes that Kaldari is one of the kindest and most well meaning individuals she has ever met (and yes, I'll say that to his face!). RANT END On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 7:19 AM, ChaoticFluffy chaoticflu...@gmail.comwrote: There are, in my opinion, a certain number of toxic users on wikipedia, more than there is a toxic environment as a whole. The person Kaldari blocked is one of those people, but certainly not the only one. These people are untouchable, as he quickly discovered, because any attempt to force them to behave in a collegial manner is treated as an attack, and these people cheerfully drive off other contributors - in this particular case, for example, I deliberately avoid, and have for quite a while, touching articles edited by the person Kaldari blocked, because I find aggression extremely alarming, and it's not something I voluntarily put myself in for. Certainly the encyclopedia isn't going to collapse without me editing that subset of articles, but it's still a loss that shouldn't have to be taken. The result of all this is that these vested contributors - and yes, they are exactly that - are able to operate in a bubble that insulates them from
Re: [Gendergap] Joseph Reagle on Wikipedia's category taxonomy
Indeed Mike, how dare you accuse the august NYT of being influenced by so-called class privilege. That's ridiculous. The New York Times is not biased and publishes op-eds solely based on their individual merits. The opinions contained within have nothing to do with the privileges their authors may have or not have. Pff. Pretty soon you'll be suggesting that the fact that 83% of their columnists are men and that 92% are white has something to do with gender and race privilege. And after that, what. Are you going to suggest that gender and race affect viewpoint as well? Are you going to suggest that there's some sort of class gap on Wikipedia too? Utter tosh. I hope you don't intend on editing any Wikipedia articles based on these ridiculous assertions. Nepenthe On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Joseph Reagle joseph.2...@reagle.orgwrote: On 04/30/2013 12:03 AM, Risker wrote: Michael, you miss my point entirely. This is exactly the kind of nastiness - trashing someone who takes umbrage at the way Wikipedia does something that directly relates to her own real life - that brings the project into disrepute, and that women in particular find hostile. Agreed. __**_ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/gendergaphttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Topless image retention -don't give up
The more I look into it, the more it seems like it's a pointless endeavor. From the deletion discussions I've looked at ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Save_the_Redwoods.jpg), a photo of two nude young women in a tree considered in scope. After all, it's been categorized! (Is that really all it takes? Absurd.) And it could be used to illustrate the article on Bagby Hot Springs! Of the seven images Commons proposes to have illustrate encyclopedic articles on Bagby Hot Springs, 3 are of nude women. It's female nudes all the way down. Nepenthe On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Mary Mark Ockerbloom celebration.wo...@gmail.com wrote: Regarding the question of what can you do, I had the experience last week of starting a new job. I had to read through the guidelines for the organization, which included a section on Equal Opportunity and Freedom from Harassment. Prominent on the first page: Harassment Defined 1. Hostile Environment Harassment prohibited under this policy includes verbal, visual, or physical conduct relating to matters of race, national origin, sex, sexual preference, religion, age or disability which is unwelcome to the reasonable person, and a. has the purpose or effect of interfering with a person's work performance b. has the purpose or effect of creating an intimidating, hostile or offensive working environment. Item 2 goes on to deal with more direct incidents such as unwelcome sexual attention, sexual advances, etc. I also looked at the relevant page on Wikipedia, to see what Wikipedia's policy is. (Sorry I don't have the link to hand to include.) It covered item 2. But Hostile environment, item 1 on my workplace's guidelines, is not included. Note too that item 1 is not limited to sexual materials; this is not identified as a feminist problem but as a type of behavior potentially relevant and unacceptable to anyone. I would suggest that one reason that it's hard to get people to address this sort of situation is that it's not clearly identified at a high level as unacceptable behavior which creates a hostile environment A very interesting point, which reminded me of The Benevolent Dictator Incident: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_incident Wikimedia has a friendly space policy for physical meetings, but apparently no exact equivalent for its online environment. To give an example, Commons has a hot sex barnstar, present on a number of user talk pages, which does not appear to have violated any Wikimedia policy, judging by its existence for more than a year now. The imagery is grossly pornographic, and would be unacceptable in almost any workplace outside of the adult entertainment industry: NSFW: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hot_sex_barnstar.png Similar imagery is sometimes found on user pages. It is widely accepted that the open display of pornographic photographs or drawings is a key contributor to a sexually hostile workplace. This is something that could have been addressed as part of the Foundation's terms of use: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#4._Refraining_from_Certain_Activities However, the present terms of use appear to permit anything that is not outright illegal. If the Wikimedia Foundation is serious about addressing the gender gap, why does it not apply customary workplace standards to its online environment? ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Topless image retention -don't give up
Sarah, indeed, I should have been more clear. It is the Commons category for the Hot Springs that contains the nude images, not the en.wikipedia article. On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote: Just to follow up - the English Wikipedia article about the Babgy Hot Springs does not depict any nudity in the images: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagby_Hot_Springs At this point, I'm so over fretting about porny stuff on Commons - I'm more concerned about personality rights - but, if it doesn't end up on Wikipedia - which is the most used of all of our websites, then I'm not really losing sleep over it unless personality rights are involved. (Meaning naked photo of woman/man who doesn't know their naked photo is on Commons under a free license.) -Sarah On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Nepenthe topazbutter...@gmail.com wrote: The more I look into it, the more it seems like it's a pointless endeavor. From the deletion discussions I've looked at ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Save_the_Redwoods.jpg), a photo of two nude young women in a tree considered in scope. After all, it's been categorized! (Is that really all it takes? Absurd.) And it could be used to illustrate the article on Bagby Hot Springs! Of the seven images Commons proposes to have illustrate encyclopedic articles on Bagby Hot Springs, 3 are of nude women. It's female nudes all the way down. Nepenthe -- -- *Sarah Stierch* *Museumist, open culture advocate, and Wikimedian* *www.sarahstierch.com* ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Accidental Troll Policy - beyond gender gap
Presumably Sarah means Cindamusehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cindamuse . On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case danc...@frontiernet.net wrote: I know women (Cristamuse, Slim Virgin, just to name two) who deal with plenty of crap and *ARE NOT* admins. Actually, Sara, Slim Virgin *is* an admin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UserRights/SlimVirgin And are you sure you’ve got the other username right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cristamuse Daniel Case ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Topless image retention -don't give up
File:Ronda F7998.JPGhttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ronda_F7998.JPGis clearly in scope. Could be used to illustrate Urn, Vase, Pottery, Crosslegged etc. On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.comwrote: I will be of course posting a link to this list on the DR given the idiocy and trolling of a Commons admin going on here. Cheers, Russavia On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Katherine Casey fluffernutter.w...@gmail.com wrote: Oh dear, I'm not sure there's enough vodka in the universe for us all to play that drinking game, Daniel! Especially given that closed by Mattbuck as delete probably ought to be a finish your drink qualifier... -Fluffernutter On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case danc...@frontiernet.net wrote: It took me one minute to find the uploads of this user: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Austin_photoguy50 Please nominate all of them for deletion. I will be interested in watching how what goes. Done. With the WMF resolution linked and quoted at length. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_of_Austin_photoguy50 Maybe we should have a drinking game based on this: One drink: Keep !vote saying all that matters is that it’s a free image Keep !vote saying it’s censorship Delete !vote from a regular participant on this list User who !votes keep following up every delete vote with a comment. Claim that someone has the subjects’ permission on OTRS if we all just wait a while. Closed by Mattbuck as keep. Two drinks: User who !votes keep following up every delete !vote with a comment that actually makes a legitimate counterargument to the delete !vote. Keep !vote from regular participant on this list. Keep !vote that trashes the Foundation and/or board in the I just like sticking it to the Man!” vein. Keep !vote arguing that society is too prudish and subjects need to get over that. Closed by another admin as keep. Three drinks: Closed by Mattbuck as delete. Daniel Case ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Category:Nude portrayals of computer technology
I apologize Sarah. I thought that descriptions of the images would allow those who cannot view them to evaluate the contents if they wish. It will not happen again. Nepenthe On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I'd like to ask that people don't use this mailing list to get into in depth explanations of what the images look like. Simply saying NSFW is good enough for me. I can tell by reading the captions 1) I don't want to look at them 2) I don't want to hear what they look like. It's as uncomfortable for me to read and hear the descriptions, as it is for me to see the descriptions. Thanks, Sarah who is no longer a moderator here, but had to say something. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Nepenthe topazbutter...@gmail.comwrote: Bling-bling - table.jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bling-bling_-_table.jpg(An image of a young, thin, nude woman on hands and knees and long black hair obscuring here in side view. A vase is placed on the small of her back and rhinestones on her flank read table) is in use on the fr.wikipedia's article on sexual objectification. Torso of nude woman with facebook like button.jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Torso_of_nude_woman_with_facebook_like_button.jpgis being used on a Russian wikinews article about Facebook's like button. I guess the fact that it's painted onto a nude woman is a bonus? It's also used on pt.wikipedia's body painting article. Outer labia piercing.jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Outer_labia_piercing.jpg(Close up of a female crotch wearing pink panties pushed aside to reveal a large ring piercing through the outer labia. Another person's hand, with a written in rhinestones, is pulling on the ring. Get it! Link!) is used on a number of genital piercing articles. Need to stop. Too depressing. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Ole Palnatoke Andersen o...@palnatoke.org wrote: http://toolserver.org/~magnus/glamorous.php?doit=Do+it!category=Nude+portrayals+of+computer+technologyshould answer George's question. It takes a while loading and it isn't worksafe - unless you can get away with thumbnails -Ole. On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 1:10 AM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: I'm at work and can't really get away with looking at the gallery images from here without trouble. However... Has anyone looked at them to see where (if anywhere) they are in use on projects? -george On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure EVula knew that Commoners wouldn't abide his deletion of their fap galleries. They've never liked it much before, and this gallery is even nerdy! Double whammy. The uploader freaked out with inspiring rapidity. The arguments given in a previous deletion review are instructive; only the most mechanical reading of the project scope policy, in the way most charitable to retaining pornographic collections, were even considered. The closer said, paraphrasing: Pornographic? Sure, don't care. Objectifies women? Sure, don't care. Not useful on another Wikimedia project? Sure, don't care. It was on Flickr, so they must have consented to publication on Commons, case closed. ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- http://palnatoke.org * @palnatoke * +4522934588 ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- -- *Sarah Stierch* *Museumist, open culture advocate, and Wikimedian* *www.sarahstierch.com* ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
