RE: New Account Dialog

[David Carlson]

Chris,

This will be short as I am on a cell phone right now.

I would like to see a summary paragraph that clarifies that a typical
example of an account structure would include an asset account to represent
an account at a brokerage firm.  That would be denominated in your local
currency and it would include sub accounts for each security that you trade
there.

Purchases, sales, income and expenses should all be in the same currency
for that brokerage.

The security sub accounts would each be configured to contain units of a
single security selected from the master security list and they are
expected to use the same currency as the brokerage account.

Security prices are kept in a separate table that relates individual
securities (not security accounts ) to a single currency in that part of
the table.

If the user has multiple currencies,  all that stuff should be duplicated
in each currency.

This should be reviewed for accuracy and grammatical consistency by a
developer before being committed to the documentation, and it should
probably fall near the beginning of section 8 of the tutorial.

David C
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Re: New Account Dialog

[John Ralls]

> On Jul 27, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Alex Aycinena  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 9:00 AM,  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> From: "David T." 
>> To: GnuCash-Devel 
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:25:11 +0500
>> Subject: New Account Dialog
>> Hello,
>> 
>> In recent weeks, there have been a number of threads on the user list in
>> which users have had difficulties setting up accounts for equities and
>> mutual funds. These users have not been able to set the Security/Currency
>> to an appropriate value because the account type was not correctly set.
>> 
>> I believe that the New Account dialog contributes to this problem by the
>> way it is set up. The sequence of fields in the dialog does not match the
>> required sequence of input; the user must correctly set the Account Type
>> field (located at the bottom of the dialog) *BEFORE* they can correctly set
>> the Security/currency field.
>> 
>> Not only is this sequence confusing to new users, it is an annoyance for
>> experienced users as well, since the user must manually relocate to the
>> type field, set the type, and then manually relocate back to the currency
>> field to set it. This quickly gets burdensome.
>> 
>> At the very least, I would suggest that it would be much clearer and
>> easier to all users to have the Account Type field placed immediately after
>> the Description field, and that it be changed to a drop down list. This
>> would make it clearer to new users and more efficient for others, without
>> entailing a great deal of change to the program.
>> 
>> I can add a bug to bugzilla if it seems that this would be useful.
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> David,
>> 
>> I think that that's quite well explained in Chapter 8 of the guide, and
>> the new user's problems are largely down to not reading the documentation
>> before diving in.
>> 
>> I agree with to your proposed change to the UI for 2.8, and it should be
>> as you say fairly simple, probably only a Glade change with no code. Please
>> do file a bug so that we remember to do it.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> I am currently doing some work that will change the Account dialog for
> other reasons. If everyone is in agreement, I can change the layout as
> David suggests in the course of that work. I would probably commit that to
> master in a few weeks.

Alex,

That would be great, thanks!

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: New Account Dialog

[John Ralls]

> On Jul 27, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Chris Good  wrote:
> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:25:11 +0500
>> From: "David T." 
>> To: GnuCash-Devel 
>> Subject: New Account Dialog
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> In recent weeks, there have been a number of threads on the user list in
>> which users have had difficulties setting up accounts for equities and
> mutual
>> funds. These users have not been able to set the Security/Currency to an
>> appropriate value because the account type was not correctly set.
>> 
>> I believe that the New Account dialog contributes to this problem by the
> way
>> it is set up. The sequence of fields in the dialog does not match the
> required
>> sequence of input; the user must correctly set the Account Type field
>> (located at the bottom of the dialog) *BEFORE* they can correctly set the
>> Security/currency field.
>> 
>> Not only is this sequence confusing to new users, it is an annoyance for
>> experienced users as well, since the user must manually relocate to the
> type
>> field, set the type, and then manually relocate back to the currency field
> to
>> set it. This quickly gets burdensome.
>> 
>> At the very least, I would suggest that it would be much clearer and
> easier to
>> all users to have the Account Type field placed immediately after the
>> Description field, and that it be changed to a drop down list. This would
> make
>> it clearer to new users and more efficient for others, without entailing a
> great
>> deal of change to the program.
>> 
>> I can add a bug to bugzilla if it seems that this would be useful.
>> 
>> David
>> --
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 05:12:24 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: david.carlson@gmail.com  
>> To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org
>> Subject: Re: New Account Dialog
>> Message-ID: <000f425b.622dff6752aa1...@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="utf-8"
>> 
>>Related to this issue, I think that it is not very clear that there
> are accounts,
>> currencies and commodities (or securities) in the data and that investment
>> accounts require a unioue combination of all three items.
>> There can be (in fact must be )many security accounts for the same
> security if
>> they are under different broker accounts or in different currencies.
>> Then the price table defines the relationship over time of these items. ?
>> Please excuse the sloppy editing. ?I am doing this on a tablet.
>> 
>> David C
>> Sent from my LG G Pad 7.0 LTE, an AT 4G LTE tablet
>> --
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 06:35:04 -0700
>> From: John Ralls 
>> To: david.carlson@gmail.com
>> Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org
>> Subject: Re: New Account Dialog
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>>> On Jul 27, 2016, at 5:12 AM, david.carlson@gmail.com wrote:
>> David,
>> 
>> I think that that's quite well explained in Chapter 8 of the guide, and
> the new
>> user's problems are largely down to not reading the documentation before
>> diving in.
>> 
>> I agree with to your proposed change to the UI for 2.8, and it should be
> as
>> you say fairly simple, probably only a Glade change with no code. Please
> do
>> file a bug so that we remember to do it.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
> 
> Hi David T, David C & John,
> 
> I started working yesterday on improving the guide documentation for this,
> just to be clearer that you need to select the account type before trying to
> select the security. I spent a couple of hours looking for an appropriate
> bug, which I thought already existed, but only found
> 
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115461  - Stock Account should
> not allow Currency Comodities
> 
> I think I will continue to update the documentation, even though hopefully
> somebody will fix this soon, as I guess the fix won't be live until 2.8.
> 
> David C,
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by:
> 
>> Related to this issue, I think that it is not very clear that there are
> accounts,
>> currencies and commodities (or securities) in the data and that investment
>> accounts require a unique combination of all three items.
> 
> If you could elucidate I'll try to include in my documentation change?
> 
> John,
> 
> Is there an email list of people who get mail whenever a new bug is raised?
> If so, can I get on that list please?

Chris,

Not exactly a list. Here's how it works: There are a set of dummy email 
accounts for different components, and they're set as the "default assignee" 
and "default QA contact". The list is:
gnucash-core-ma...@gnome.bugs: All components except the ones below
gnucash-documentation-ma...@gnome.bugs: Documentation, Translations, Website

RE: New Account Dialog

[Chris Good]

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:25:11 +0500
> From: "David T." 
> To: GnuCash-Devel 
> Subject: New Account Dialog
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hello,
> 
> In recent weeks, there have been a number of threads on the user list in
> which users have had difficulties setting up accounts for equities and
mutual
> funds. These users have not been able to set the Security/Currency to an
> appropriate value because the account type was not correctly set.
> 
> I believe that the New Account dialog contributes to this problem by the
way
> it is set up. The sequence of fields in the dialog does not match the
required
> sequence of input; the user must correctly set the Account Type field
> (located at the bottom of the dialog) *BEFORE* they can correctly set the
> Security/currency field.
> 
> Not only is this sequence confusing to new users, it is an annoyance for
> experienced users as well, since the user must manually relocate to the
type
> field, set the type, and then manually relocate back to the currency field
to
> set it. This quickly gets burdensome.
> 
> At the very least, I would suggest that it would be much clearer and
easier to
> all users to have the Account Type field placed immediately after the
> Description field, and that it be changed to a drop down list. This would
make
> it clearer to new users and more efficient for others, without entailing a
great
> deal of change to the program.
> 
> I can add a bug to bugzilla if it seems that this would be useful.
> 
> David
> --
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 05:12:24 -0700 (PDT)
> From: david.carlson@gmail.com  
> To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: New Account Dialog
> Message-ID: <000f425b.622dff6752aa1...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Related to this issue, I think that it is not very clear that there
are accounts,
> currencies and commodities (or securities) in the data and that investment
> accounts require a unioue combination of all three items.
> There can be (in fact must be )many security accounts for the same
security if
> they are under different broker accounts or in different currencies.
> Then the price table defines the relationship over time of these items. ?
> Please excuse the sloppy editing. ?I am doing this on a tablet.
> 
> David C
> Sent from my LG G Pad 7.0 LTE, an AT 4G LTE tablet
> --
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 06:35:04 -0700
> From: John Ralls 
> To: david.carlson@gmail.com
> Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: New Account Dialog
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> > On Jul 27, 2016, at 5:12 AM, david.carlson@gmail.com wrote:
> David,
> 
> I think that that's quite well explained in Chapter 8 of the guide, and
the new
> user's problems are largely down to not reading the documentation before
> diving in.
> 
> I agree with to your proposed change to the UI for 2.8, and it should be
as
> you say fairly simple, probably only a Glade change with no code. Please
do
> file a bug so that we remember to do it.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls

Hi David T, David C & John,

I started working yesterday on improving the guide documentation for this,
just to be clearer that you need to select the account type before trying to
select the security. I spent a couple of hours looking for an appropriate
bug, which I thought already existed, but only found

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115461  - Stock Account should
not allow Currency Comodities

I think I will continue to update the documentation, even though hopefully
somebody will fix this soon, as I guess the fix won't be live until 2.8.

David C,

I'm not sure what you mean by:

> Related to this issue, I think that it is not very clear that there are
accounts,
> currencies and commodities (or securities) in the data and that investment
> accounts require a unique combination of all three items.

If you could elucidate I'll try to include in my documentation change?

John,

Is there an email list of people who get mail whenever a new bug is raised?
If so, can I get on that list please?

Regards,
Chris Good



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: New Account Dialog

[Alex Aycinena]

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 9:00 AM,  wrote:

>
> From: "David T." 
> To: GnuCash-Devel 
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:25:11 +0500
> Subject: New Account Dialog
> Hello,
>
> In recent weeks, there have been a number of threads on the user list in
> which users have had difficulties setting up accounts for equities and
> mutual funds. These users have not been able to set the Security/Currency
> to an appropriate value because the account type was not correctly set.
>
> I believe that the New Account dialog contributes to this problem by the
> way it is set up. The sequence of fields in the dialog does not match the
> required sequence of input; the user must correctly set the Account Type
> field (located at the bottom of the dialog) *BEFORE* they can correctly set
> the Security/currency field.
>
> Not only is this sequence confusing to new users, it is an annoyance for
> experienced users as well, since the user must manually relocate to the
> type field, set the type, and then manually relocate back to the currency
> field to set it. This quickly gets burdensome.
>
> At the very least, I would suggest that it would be much clearer and
> easier to all users to have the Account Type field placed immediately after
> the Description field, and that it be changed to a drop down list. This
> would make it clearer to new users and more efficient for others, without
> entailing a great deal of change to the program.
>
> I can add a bug to bugzilla if it seems that this would be useful.
>
> David
>
>
>


>
> David,
>
> I think that that's quite well explained in Chapter 8 of the guide, and
> the new user's problems are largely down to not reading the documentation
> before diving in.
>
> I agree with to your proposed change to the UI for 2.8, and it should be
> as you say fairly simple, probably only a Glade change with no code. Please
> do file a bug so that we remember to do it.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>


I am currently doing some work that will change the Account dialog for
other reasons. If everyone is in agreement, I can change the layout as
David suggests in the course of that work. I would probably commit that to
master in a few weeks.

Regards,

Alex
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Re: New Account Dialog

[John Ralls]

> On Jul 27, 2016, at 5:12 AM, david.carlson@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Related to this issue, I think that it is not very clear that there are 
> accounts, currencies and commodities (or securities) in the data and that 
> investment accounts require a unioue combination of all three items.
> There can be (in fact must be )many security accounts for the same security 
> if they are under different broker accounts or in different currencies.
> Then the price table defines the relationship over time of these items.  
> Please excuse the sloppy editing.  I am doing this on a tablet.

David,

I think that that's quite well explained in Chapter 8 of the guide, and the new 
user's problems are largely down to not reading the documentation before diving 
in.

I agree with to your proposed change to the UI for 2.8, and it should be as you 
say fairly simple, probably only a Glade change with no code. Please do file a 
bug so that we remember to do it.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: New Account Dialog

[david . carlson . 417]

Related to this issue, I think that it is not very clear that there are 
accounts, currencies and commodities (or securities) in the data and that 
investment accounts require a unioue combination of all three items.
There can be (in fact must be )many security accounts for the same security if 
they are under different broker accounts or in different currencies.
Then the price table defines the relationship over time of these items.  
Please excuse the sloppy editing.  I am doing this on a tablet.

David C
Sent from my LG G Pad 7.0 LTE, an AT 4G LTE tablet



-- Original message--From: David T. via gnucash-develDate: Wed, Jul 27, 
2016 1:35 AMTo: GnuCash-Devel;Subject:New Account Dialog
Hello,In recent weeks, there have been a number of threads on the user list in 
which users have had difficulties setting up accounts for equities and mutual 
funds. These users have not been able to set the Security/Currency to an 
appropriate value because the account type was not correctly set.I believe that 
the New Account dialog contributes to this problem by the way it is set up. The 
sequence of fields in the dialog does not match the required sequence of input; 
the user must correctly set the Account Type field (located at the bottom of 
the dialog) *BEFORE* they can correctly set the Security/currency field. Not 
only is this sequence confusing to new users, it is an annoyance for 
experienced users as well, since the user must manually relocate to the type 
field, set the type, and then manually relocate back to the currency field to 
set it. This quickly gets burdensome.At the very least, I would suggest that it 
would be much clearer and easier to all users to have the Account Type field 
placed immediately after the Description field, and that it be changed to a 
drop down list. This would make it clearer to new users and more efficient for 
others, without entailing a great deal of change to the program.I can add a bug 
to bugzilla if it seems that this would be 
useful.David___gnucash-devel 
mailing 
listgnucash-devel@gnucash.orghttps://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel

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New Account Dialog

[David T. via gnucash-devel]

Hello,

In recent weeks, there have been a number of threads on the user list in which 
users have had difficulties setting up accounts for equities and mutual funds. 
These users have not been able to set the Security/Currency to an appropriate 
value because the account type was not correctly set.

I believe that the New Account dialog contributes to this problem by the way it 
is set up. The sequence of fields in the dialog does not match the required 
sequence of input; the user must correctly set the Account Type field (located 
at the bottom of the dialog) *BEFORE* they can correctly set the 
Security/currency field. 

Not only is this sequence confusing to new users, it is an annoyance for 
experienced users as well, since the user must manually relocate to the type 
field, set the type, and then manually relocate back to the currency field to 
set it. This quickly gets burdensome.

At the very least, I would suggest that it would be much clearer and easier to 
all users to have the Account Type field placed immediately after the 
Description field, and that it be changed to a drop down list. This would make 
it clearer to new users and more efficient for others, without entailing a 
great deal of change to the program.

I can add a bug to bugzilla if it seems that this would be useful.

David
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