RE: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Chris Good]

> -Original Message-
> From: John Ralls [mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us]
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2015 3:02 PM
> To: Chris Good <chris.g...@ozemail.com.au>
> Cc: Geert Janssens <geert.gnuc...@kobaltwit.be>; gnucash-
> de...@gnucash.org; Derek Atkins <warl...@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation
> 
> > On Oct 19, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Chris Good <chris.g...@ozemail.com.au>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 20 Oct 2015, at 1:50 pm, John Ralls <jra...@ceridwen.us> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Oct 19, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Chris Good <chris.g...@ozemail.com.au>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks John, Derek & Geert.
> >>>
> >>> I tried fop 1.0 and while I was very happy with the look of the
> >>> informaltable (table without a title), the page with the informal
> >>> table and the next page, had the body printing 2 lines into the footer in
> the PDF.
> >>> I'll try the most recent fop to see if this is fixed.
> >>>
> >>> I also noticed a problem with the .mobi when viewed in most viewers
> >>> (including latest Calibre 2.41.0).
> >>>
> >>> A screen dump graphic from the body of the document is duplicated at
> >>> the start of the document.
> >>>
> >>> This also happens with the GnuCash Help mobi files that were not
> >>> generated by me. I.e. current Stable and Unstable 2.6.
> >>>
> >>> Different mobi viewers show a different graphic at the start but
> >>> each viewer is consistent in the graphic it shows for a particular mobi 
> >>> file.
> >>>
> >>> On Windows in Amazon's Kindle for PC 1.12.4, the graphic is
> >>> correctly not shown as first page (although it does incorrectly left
> >>> justify my informal table to the left margin).
> >>>
> >>> In one of the mobi viewers (cannot remember which one at the
> >>> moment), each graphic was showing what should have been the
> previous or next graphic.
> >>>
> >>> ISTC this has been discussed before and it is most important that
> >>> the html and pdf documentation be correct, so I won't worry about the
> mobi too much.
> >>>
> >>> I didn't find any problems with the .epub's.
> >>
> >> Chris,
> >>
> >> I think that that’s more thorough testing than the .mobi has ever had.
> Thanks for all the work! But I wonder if you might be chasing existing
> problems. Did you try downloading the 2.6.9 one from the web site for
> comparison?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> John Ralls
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > I tried the current stable 2.6 from the website and it had the same
> problem.
> 
> Chris,
> 
> I thought it might. Like I said, you’ve done more testing than anyone else, so
> you found problems that have nothing to do with your setup.
> 
> That means that if the informaltable is good enough, it’s good enough. Go
> ahead and make a PR.
> 
> If you want to try and figure out how to get the mobi docs to look better,
> that’d be great. OTOH, we’ve had them up for a few years now and nobody’s
> complained, so maybe there are more important things to worry about.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls

FYI

I tried latest fop 2.0 from https://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/ on my Ubuntu 
12.04 
to see if it fixes problem where body goes into footer on pdf page with 
informaltable.
It still did.
It also failed to build the mobi and epub Help documentation.
I went thru the many thousands of lines in the log but I couldn't see the 
problem.
I've gone back to Ubuntu standard fop 1.0.dfsg2-6.

Regards,
Chris Good


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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Geert Janssens]

On Monday 19 October 2015 21:02:23 John Ralls wrote:
> I thought it might. Like I said, you’ve done more testing than anyone
> else, so you found problems that have nothing to do with your setup.
> 
> That means that if the informaltable is good enough, it’s good enough.
> Go ahead and make a PR.
> 
> If you want to try and figure out how to get the mobi docs to look
> better, that’d be great. OTOH, we’ve had them up for a few years now
> and nobody’s complained, so maybe there are more important things to
> worry about.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls

Agreed.

You can also just report it as a bug so it won't get lost and leave it for 
later/someone else.

Thanks for the thorough testing :)

Regards,

Geert
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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Geert Janssens]

On Monday 19 October 2015 13:24:22 Derek Atkins wrote:
> "Chris Good"  writes:
> > Hi John,
> > 
> > Can you please tell me what versions of fop and Calibre are used to
> > build GnuCash pdf + ePub documentation?
> 
> The build server uses fop-1.1-5 and calibre-1.39.0-2.
> 
> > (I'd sooner not install software without using packaging system but
> > Ubuntu 12.04 fop is only 1.0.dfsg2-6)
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Chris Good
> 
> -derek

I'm pretty sure the older versions will work as well. We originally had fop 1.0 
when pdf creation 
was set up. I remember we were experiencing crashes due to the default fonts 
that were 
chosen back then for the Japanese translation, but that issue has been fixed 
for quite some time 
now.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Derek Atkins]

"Chris Good"  writes:

> Hi John,
>
> Can you please tell me what versions of fop and Calibre are used to build 
> GnuCash pdf + ePub documentation?

The build server uses fop-1.1-5 and calibre-1.39.0-2.

> (I'd sooner not install software without using packaging system but Ubuntu 
> 12.04 fop is only 1.0.dfsg2-6)
>
> Regards,
> Chris Good

-derek
-- 
   Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
   Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
   URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
   warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
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RE: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Chris Good]

Thanks John, Derek & Geert.

 

I tried fop 1.0 and while I was very happy with the look of the
informaltable (table without a title), the page with the informal table and
the next page, had the body printing 2 lines into the footer in the PDF.
I'll try the most recent fop to see if this is fixed.

 

I also noticed a problem with the .mobi when viewed in most viewers
(including latest Calibre 2.41.0).

A screen dump graphic from the body of the document is duplicated at the
start of the document.

This also happens with the GnuCash Help mobi files that were not generated
by me. I.e. current Stable and Unstable 2.6.

 

Different mobi viewers show a different graphic at the start but each viewer
is consistent in the graphic it shows for a particular mobi file.

On Windows in Amazon's Kindle for PC 1.12.4, the graphic is correctly not
shown as first page (although it does incorrectly left justify my informal
table to the left margin).

 

In one of the mobi viewers (cannot remember which one at the moment), each
graphic was showing what should have been the previous or next graphic.

 

ISTC this has been discussed before and it is most important that the html
and pdf documentation be correct, so I won't worry about the mobi too much.

 

I didn't find any problems with the .epub's.

 

Regards,

 

Chris Good

 

From: Geert Janssens [mailto:geert.gnuc...@kobaltwit.be] 
Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2015 4:32 AM
To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org
Cc: Derek Atkins <warl...@mit.edu>; Chris Good <chris.g...@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

 

On Monday 19 October 2015 13:24:22 Derek Atkins wrote:

> "Chris Good" < <mailto:chris.g...@ozemail.com.au>
chris.g...@ozemail.com.au> writes:

> > Hi John,

> > 

> > Can you please tell me what versions of fop and Calibre are used to

> > build GnuCash pdf + ePub documentation?

> 

> The build server uses fop-1.1-5 and calibre-1.39.0-2.

> 

> > (I'd sooner not install software without using packaging system but

> > Ubuntu 12.04 fop is only 1.0.dfsg2-6)

> > 

> > Regards,

> > Chris Good

> 

> -derek

 

I'm pretty sure the older versions will work as well. We originally had fop
1.0 when pdf creation was set up. I remember we were experiencing crashes
due to the default fonts that were chosen back then for the Japanese
translation, but that issue has been fixed for quite some time now.

 

Regards,

 

Geert



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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[John Ralls]

> On Oct 19, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Chris Good  wrote:
> 
> Thanks John, Derek & Geert.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried fop 1.0 and while I was very happy with the look of the
> informaltable (table without a title), the page with the informal table and
> the next page, had the body printing 2 lines into the footer in the PDF.
> I'll try the most recent fop to see if this is fixed.
> 
> 
> 
> I also noticed a problem with the .mobi when viewed in most viewers
> (including latest Calibre 2.41.0).
> 
> A screen dump graphic from the body of the document is duplicated at the
> start of the document.
> 
> This also happens with the GnuCash Help mobi files that were not generated
> by me. I.e. current Stable and Unstable 2.6.
> 
> 
> 
> Different mobi viewers show a different graphic at the start but each viewer
> is consistent in the graphic it shows for a particular mobi file.
> 
> On Windows in Amazon's Kindle for PC 1.12.4, the graphic is correctly not
> shown as first page (although it does incorrectly left justify my informal
> table to the left margin).
> 
> 
> 
> In one of the mobi viewers (cannot remember which one at the moment), each
> graphic was showing what should have been the previous or next graphic.
> 
> 
> 
> ISTC this has been discussed before and it is most important that the html
> and pdf documentation be correct, so I won't worry about the mobi too much.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't find any problems with the .epub's.
> 

Chris,

I think that that’s more thorough testing than the .mobi has ever had. Thanks 
for all the work! But I wonder if you might be chasing existing problems. Did 
you try downloading the 2.6.9 one from the web site for comparison?

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[John Ralls]

> On Oct 19, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Chris Good  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 20 Oct 2015, at 1:50 pm, John Ralls  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Chris Good  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks John, Derek & Geert.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I tried fop 1.0 and while I was very happy with the look of the
>>> informaltable (table without a title), the page with the informal table and
>>> the next page, had the body printing 2 lines into the footer in the PDF.
>>> I'll try the most recent fop to see if this is fixed.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I also noticed a problem with the .mobi when viewed in most viewers
>>> (including latest Calibre 2.41.0).
>>> 
>>> A screen dump graphic from the body of the document is duplicated at the
>>> start of the document.
>>> 
>>> This also happens with the GnuCash Help mobi files that were not generated
>>> by me. I.e. current Stable and Unstable 2.6.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Different mobi viewers show a different graphic at the start but each viewer
>>> is consistent in the graphic it shows for a particular mobi file.
>>> 
>>> On Windows in Amazon's Kindle for PC 1.12.4, the graphic is correctly not
>>> shown as first page (although it does incorrectly left justify my informal
>>> table to the left margin).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In one of the mobi viewers (cannot remember which one at the moment), each
>>> graphic was showing what should have been the previous or next graphic.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ISTC this has been discussed before and it is most important that the html
>>> and pdf documentation be correct, so I won't worry about the mobi too much.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I didn't find any problems with the .epub's.
>>> 
>> 
>> Chris,
>> 
>> I think that that’s more thorough testing than the .mobi has ever had. 
>> Thanks for all the work! But I wonder if you might be chasing existing 
>> problems. Did you try downloading the 2.6.9 one from the web site for 
>> comparison?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> I tried the current stable 2.6 from the website and it had the same problem.

Chris,

I thought it might. Like I said, you’ve done more testing than anyone else, so 
you found problems that have nothing to do with your setup.

That means that if the informaltable is good enough, it’s good enough. Go ahead 
and make a PR.

If you want to try and figure out how to get the mobi docs to look better, 
that’d be great. OTOH, we’ve had them up for a few years now and nobody’s 
complained, so maybe there are more important things to worry about.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Chris Good]

> On 20 Oct 2015, at 1:50 pm, John Ralls  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Chris Good  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks John, Derek & Geert.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I tried fop 1.0 and while I was very happy with the look of the
>> informaltable (table without a title), the page with the informal table and
>> the next page, had the body printing 2 lines into the footer in the PDF.
>> I'll try the most recent fop to see if this is fixed.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I also noticed a problem with the .mobi when viewed in most viewers
>> (including latest Calibre 2.41.0).
>> 
>> A screen dump graphic from the body of the document is duplicated at the
>> start of the document.
>> 
>> This also happens with the GnuCash Help mobi files that were not generated
>> by me. I.e. current Stable and Unstable 2.6.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Different mobi viewers show a different graphic at the start but each viewer
>> is consistent in the graphic it shows for a particular mobi file.
>> 
>> On Windows in Amazon's Kindle for PC 1.12.4, the graphic is correctly not
>> shown as first page (although it does incorrectly left justify my informal
>> table to the left margin).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In one of the mobi viewers (cannot remember which one at the moment), each
>> graphic was showing what should have been the previous or next graphic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ISTC this has been discussed before and it is most important that the html
>> and pdf documentation be correct, so I won't worry about the mobi too much.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I didn't find any problems with the .epub's.
>> 
> 
> Chris,
> 
> I think that that’s more thorough testing than the .mobi has ever had. Thanks 
> for all the work! But I wonder if you might be chasing existing problems. Did 
> you try downloading the 2.6.9 one from the web site for comparison?
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls

Hi John,

I tried the current stable 2.6 from the website and it had the same problem.

Regards,
Chris Good
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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[John Ralls]

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Chris Good <chris.g...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:18:10 +1100
>> From: Chris Good <chris.g...@ozemail.com.au>
>> To: John Ralls <jra...@ceridwen.us>
>> Cc: "gnucash-devel@gnucash.org" <gnucash-devel@gnucash.org>
>> Subject: Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation
>> Message-ID: <da4c5a9f-baf2-423c-a239-ec6aa30d0...@ozemail.com.au>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 Oct 2015, at 1:38 am, John Ralls <jra...@ceridwen.us> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:34 AM, Chris Good <chris.g...@ozemail.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Geert,
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know how to check how it looks in pdf/mobi/epub.
>>>> Do the pdf/mobi/epub versions get built by the daily build?
>>>> Perhaps after it is committed, I could see it in the daily build, and 
>>>> change it
>> again if it is not acceptable?
>>> 
>>> Yes, they?re all built in the nightly, though that?s the master branch 
>>> rather
>> than maint so your changes would have to be merged first. Mechtilde
>> Stehmann has a bunch of PRs up right now so I?ll probably do a merge this
>> evening.
>>> 
>>> Or you could build the ebooks locally. See
>> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Documentation_Release_Process#Other_docu
>> mentation_formats for instructions.
>>> 
>>> Calibre, which you?ll need to make the mobi, will also serve to display 
>>> the
>> mobi and epub.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> John Ralls
>> 
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Can you please tell me what versions of fop and Calibre are used to build 
> GnuCash pdf + ePub documentation?
> 
> (I'd sooner not install software without using packaging system but Ubuntu 
> 12.04 fop is only 1.0.dfsg2-6)

Chris,

Whatever is in your distro is probably fine. IIRC we were targeting RHEL 6 as 
the “elder system” when we set it up. I know I’ve successfully built the docs 
on F16 and Debian Wheezy.

Regards,
John Ralls
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Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Chris Good]

Hi Devs,

 

Is it OK to use informaltable in documentation? It hasn't been used anywhere
in the help or guide.

I have many levels and guilabel and emphasis look the same in a browser.

 

Here is an example of informaltable in FireFox (I hope it comes thru OK):

 



 

Any other suggestions for differentiating multiple levels without using
numbering?

 

Regards,

Chris Good

 



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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Chris Good]

Hi Geert,

I don't know how to check how it looks in pdf/mobi/epub.
Do the pdf/mobi/epub versions get built by the daily build?
Perhaps after it is committed, I could see it in the daily build, and change it 
again if it is not acceptable?

Regards,
Chris Good

> On 11 Oct 2015, at 9:50 pm, Geert Janssens  wrote:
> 
> On Sunday 11 October 2015 20:12:33 Chris Good wrote:
> > Hi Devs,
> > Is it OK to use informaltable in documentation? It hasn't been used
> > anywhere in the help or guide.
> > I have many levels and guilabel and emphasis look the same in a
> > browser.
> > Here is an example of informaltable in FireFox (I hope it comes thru
> > OK):
> > Any other suggestions for differentiating multiple levels without
> > using numbering?
> > Regards,
> > Chris Good
>  
> I didn't see the image in my mail client, but it did show up in the list 
> archives. Visually it looks ok to me.
>  
> How does the pdf conversion handle it ? And mobi/epub ?
>  
> If these are ok, I'm fine with you using this element.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Geert

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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Geert Janssens]

On Sunday 11 October 2015 20:12:33 Chris Good wrote:
> Hi Devs,
> 
> 
> 
> Is it OK to use informaltable in documentation? It hasn't been used
> anywhere in the help or guide.
> 
> I have many levels and guilabel and emphasis look the same in a
> browser.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an example of informaltable in FireFox (I hope it comes thru
> OK):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any other suggestions for differentiating multiple levels without
> using numbering?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chris Good

I didn't see the image in my mail client, but it did show up in the list 
archives. Visually it 
looks ok to me.

How does the pdf conversion handle it ? And mobi/epub ?

If these are ok, I'm fine with you using this element.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[John Ralls]

> On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:34 AM, Chris Good  wrote:
> 
> Hi Geert,
> 
> I don't know how to check how it looks in pdf/mobi/epub.
> Do the pdf/mobi/epub versions get built by the daily build?
> Perhaps after it is committed, I could see it in the daily build, and change 
> it again if it is not acceptable?

Yes, they’re all built in the nightly, though that’s the master branch rather 
than maint so your changes would have to be merged first. Mechtilde Stehmann 
has a bunch of PRs up right now so I’ll probably do a merge this evening.

Or you could build the ebooks locally. See 
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Documentation_Release_Process#Other_documentation_formats
 for instructions.

Calibre, which you’ll need to make the mobi, will also serve to display the 
mobi and epub.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: Is informaltable OK in documentation

[Geert Janssens]

Hi Chris,

I'm also willing to run the test for you if you send me a patch.

Regards,

Geert

On Sunday 11 October 2015 22:34:11 Chris Good wrote:
> Hi Geert,
> 
> I don't know how to check how it looks in pdf/mobi/epub.
> Do the pdf/mobi/epub versions get built by the daily build?
> Perhaps after it is committed, I could see it in the daily build, and
> change it again if it is not acceptable?
> 
> Regards,
> Chris Good
> 
> > On 11 Oct 2015, at 9:50 pm, Geert Janssens
> >  wrote:> 
> > On Sunday 11 October 2015 20:12:33 Chris Good wrote:
> > > Hi Devs,
> > > Is it OK to use informaltable in documentation? It hasn't been
> > > used
> > > anywhere in the help or guide.
> > > I have many levels and guilabel and emphasis look the same in a
> > > browser.
> > > Here is an example of informaltable in FireFox (I hope it comes
> > > thru
> > > OK):
> > > Any other suggestions for differentiating multiple levels without
> > > using numbering?
> > > Regards,
> > > Chris Good
> > 
> > I didn't see the image in my mail client, but it did show up in the
> > list archives. Visually it looks ok to me.
> > 
> > How does the pdf conversion handle it ? And mobi/epub ?
> > 
> > If these are ok, I'm fine with you using this element.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Geert

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