Re: Newbie question .

[DaveC49]

Hi George,

How you record these items will depend a great deal on the exact nature of
the item and the nature of the future benefit you receive from them.

In the case of a pension  the future value may be different from simply the
paid in value of the contributions. Depending on the nature of the pension,
there may or may not be employer contributions and/or in the case of some
government pension contributions from the government and/or payment of
interest earned by your contributions. Whether you are able to record this
information will largely depend upon whether it is reported to you by
whoever runs the pension scheme.

One could treat  a pension, particularly if you know what its future value
is, as an asset which you have purchased instead of treating it as simply as
an expense. In this case you could treat the the payments as simply
exchanging one asset for another. A sample transaction in this case might be

Asset : Bank Account  Credit( decrease)$200
Asset: PensionFund:My contributions  Debit ( increase)   $200  

In this case an accountant would say you have capitalized the expenditure on
contributions, rather than

Asset: Bank Account Credit (decrease)  $200
Expense: Pension Contributions Debit  (increase)   $200

where that expenditure is expensed. Capitalising the expenditure is normally
reasonable where the benefit of the expenditure is unlikely to be consumed
during the accounting period, normally annually for personal finances.

You could then also record other contributions (employer , government ,
interest etc) under sub accounts of Asset:PensionFund if and when they are
reported to you. My superannuation fund reported to me annually any
cumulative gais/losses associated with their investment strategies.
Generally such contributions in most jurisdictions would be tax-free (but
not necessarily and may depend on your local laws) and the transacion would
be a debit to the asset account and a credit to a non-taxable income account
for the amount of the increase in such contributions.

If the above is not clear particularly the idea of at least one debit and
one credit entry associated with each transaction, you may need to read up
on the basics concepts  of double entry accounting

Similarly a life insurance is an asset which is purchased by your regular
payments. Some insurance policies are simply term insurance, i.e. they only
apply for the term you are paying the premiums and you are only entitled to
the payout if the insured event occurs during that period (the premiums on
these would most likely be treated as an expense) whereas others are
cumulative products where you may be entitled to a specified amount at a
specific time in your life as well as the insurance payout should you die
earlier than that.  In this case you have  an investment component often as
accumulating bonuses to the policy face value. This can be treated as an
investment. 

It is almost impossible to give general advice in detail as you also have to
know the legal framework in which these asset products are created and how
they are treated in terms of taxation  to record them properly.  If you are
in any doubt,  it may pay to consult a local accountant as any guidance here
is really only about how you might potentially use Gnucash to record a
transaction in general and not specific circumstances.


David Cousens





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Re: Help needed: 2.6.17 not building on 32-bit systems [FIXED]

[John Ralls]

> On Sep 3, 2017, at 11:01 AM, Rich Shepard  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 3 Sep 2017, Geert Janssens wrote:
> 
>> I'm glad you got it fixed locally ...
> 
>  Thanks, Geert. So am I!
> 
>> You could run ldd on that library and see what it's trying to link to. If
>> it's version 51, I think the libwebkitgtk maintainer should know. Unless
>> he's of the opinion libwebkitgtk1 is dead and not worth spending any time
>> on any more (several distros have taken that position).
> 
>  I just did this:
> 
>   libicui18n.so.56 => /usr/lib/libicui18n.so.56 (0xb3c46000)
>libicuuc.so.56 => /usr/lib/libicuuc.so.56 (0xb3aca000)
>libicudata.so.56 => /usr/lib/libicudata.so.56 (0xb22e6000)
> 
>  The problem here is that the first library (libicui18n.so.56) also
> appeared in the unlinked ldd results from libgnc-gnome while it was the
> latter two that pointed to version 51. With the softlinks the latter two
> point to version 56 which is what allowed gnucash-2.6.17 build.
> 
>> I know it's not your priority, you need your transactions entered :) I
>> just wanted to point this out though as on my system making soft links
>> like that would be a no-no as it just kicks the can a bit further down the
>> road. And sooner or later it comes back to bite.
> 
>  Since it's not my can to pick up about all I can do it kick down the road
> to the developers. But, I will try to locate the libwebkitgtk development
> team and make them aware of the issue.
> 
>  I saw on the unlinked library list that some libicu* libraries were at
> version 56 and only *uc.so.51 and *data.so.51 were the wrench in the gears.

Nope, not the developers. GnuCash doesn’t care what version of libicu is 
installed, and I’m pretty sure WebKitGtk doesn’t either. GnuCash doesn’t use 
ICU directly and WebKit’s usage is simple enough that pretty much any version 
will do.

The problem is with Slackware’s packagers, in particular the WebKit packager 
who didn’t update his package to match the updated ICU. It doesn’t help that 
IBM (the source of ICU) don’t provide a version-less libicufoo.so link as is 
common in Unix environments to allow version-free linkage.

The other thing to be aware of is that once the webkit dependency is sorted so 
that libwebkit itself depends on the correct version of libicu you need to 
clean or delete your gnucash build directory and start from scratch so that all 
of the libgnc*.so get the right version of libicu*.so in their link tables.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: Tax Tables - an illustrated primer?

[Kenneth Schneider]

Ken Schneider 

> On Sep 3, 2017, at 10:13 AM, David Carlson  
> wrote:
> 
> In the United States "Sales Tax" is a generic term for taxes that are
> collected at the point-of-sale and usually turned over to a state, city,
> county or other government agency by retailers.
> 
> It is even difficult to make a concise and grammatically correct statement
> to describe the process.
> 
> I live near Cook County Illinois in the Chicago area where the county
> decided recently to tax all sweetened beverages by the ounce, as you
> probably read in the Internet.  For that tax, it is calculated in a silly
> way  and it is only supposed to be collected by retailers selling at
> certain business addresses, but perhaps not across the street.
> 
> On the other hand, automobile sales taxes are determined by the buyer's
> residence address and must be collected by automobile retailers when
> completing a sale along with a lot of other paperwork, that cannot be
> completed on Sunday when all car dealers cannot sell cars.
In Florida automobile sellers are open and sell vehicles 7 days a week.
Just thought I would throw in my 1.5 cents.

Ken
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Re: Help needed: 2.6.17 not building on 32-bit systems [FIXED]

[Geert Janssens]

On zondag 3 september 2017 19:26:25 CEST Rich Shepard wrote:
> Everyone:
> 
> Found and fixed the problem!!
> 
> Ran ldd on the not-found library (libgnc-gnome) and saw two missing
> dependent libraries:
> 
>   libicuuc.so.51 => not found
>   libicudata.so.51 => not found
> 
> These are missing because Slackware-14.2 provides both in version 56.
> Made soft links from the gnucash-required version to the installed version
> and the build script completed. Installed it and it's loaded and waiting
> for me to enter a couple of week's worth of transactions.
> 
> Thanks very much for all your patient help,

I'm glad you got it fixed locally, but the core issue is not solved really. 
Some of gnucash' dependencies are built against that older libicuuc version. I 
continue to point at libwebkitgtk because that's the only dependency we have 
that requires icu (and you may have noted libwebkitgtk is also listed by ldd).

You could run ldd on that library and see what it's trying to link to. If it's 
version 51, I think the libwebkitgtk maintainer should know. Unless he's of 
the opinion libwebkitgtk1 is dead and not worth spending any time on any more 
(several distros have taken that position).

I know it's not your priority, you need your transactions entered :)
I just wanted to point this out though as on my system making soft links like 
that would be a no-no as it just kicks the can a bit further down the road. 
And sooner or later it comes back to bite.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: Help needed: 2.6.17 not building on 32-bit systems

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, John Ralls wrote:


Do you still have the older version of GnuCash installed? If so you'll
need to remove it.


John,

  No. When gnucash-2.6.16 failed to load after the distribution upgrade I
removed it. Since then I've not been able to build any version of gnucash.

Rich
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Re: Help needed: 2.6.17 not building on 32-bit systems

[tjoen]

On Sun, 2017-09-03 at 07:52 -0700, Rich Shepard wrote:
> $ locate libgnc-gnome
> /opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/libgnc-gnome.la
> /opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.so.0
> /opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.lai
> /opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.so.0.0.0
> /opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.so
> /opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.la
> 
>Since libgnc-gnome is present in the src/ directory, what might be
> keeping
> it from being recognized as present?

Have you done
# make install ?
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Re: Help needed: 2.6.17 not building on 32-bit systems

[Robert Heller]

At Sun, 3 Sep 2017 07:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Rich Shepard  
wrote:

> 
> On Sat, 2 Sep 2017, John Ralls wrote:
> 
> > It’s part of GnuCash. Any library that starts with libgnc or libgncmod is
> > part of GnuCash. Its main external dependency is libgtk-x11.so though it
> > has several others in the Gnome stack.
> 
> John,
> 
>I thought it was provided by gnucash. I don't have libgtk-x11.so here so I
> need to find what provides that. I believe that I have the other
> dependencies (see below).

Under CentOS 6 (RedHat EL 6):

gollum.deepsoft.com% rpm -qf /usr/lib64/libgtk-x11-2.0.so
gtk2-devel-2.24.23-9.el6.x86_64

So I would guess libgtk2-dev under a Debian-ish system (Ubuntu, Mint, etc.).

> 
> > You do know that there are distros that do provide GnuCash and quite
> > possibly the other programs you need without your having to build them
> > yourself, right?
> 
>Yes. I've been building applications (and the occasional kernel) for 20
> years. The dependencies are goffice-0.8, libgnomecanvas, libofx, and
> webkitgtk (which requires libwebp). These are all installed here.
> 
>Now to track down libgtk-x11.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Rich
> 
> 
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>   
>   

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Re: Budget Slowing Down Windows 10

[Mark Hedges]

I didn't forget.  I just didn't want to, because I don't really know
if this is on the right track.  On mailing lists in general, I am
tired of getting negative responses for offering suggestions or asking
questions.  So why bother addressing messages to people other than the
ones I'm replying to.

Mark
--
Mark Hedges
CEO Weird Vibe Inc.
+1-310-487-7123
https://weirdvibe.media



On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 5:46 AM, Phil Longstaff  wrote:
> Don't forget to reply to the whole list.
>
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 6:50 PM, Mark Hedges 
> wrote:
>>
>> FWIW I noticed several problems with open source programs in Windows 10.
>> Could it be a graphics library implementation issue?  I wonder if you would
>> get the same problem using Developer Mode and the Ubuntu Subsystem for
>> Windows with VcXsrv on the same file and filesystem.  If it works correctly
>> in the Ubuntu Subsystem, I'm not sure what that would mean, but it might
>> help you track down the problem.  Thank you SO MUCH for your extremely
>> beneficial work.  I donated.  :-)
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> --
>> Mark Hedges
>> CEO Weird Vibe Inc.
>> +1-310-487-7123
>> https://weirdvibe.media
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Phil Longstaff 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am aware of the very slow performance with budget. I have some ideas to
>>> improve it but have not found time to put into it. It seems to only
>>> affect
>>> Windows. It runs fine on linux.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Proberts042 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Slow to me is several minutes.
>>> >
>>> > I have installed GnuCash on a Linux operating system (Ubuntu) and it
>>> > seemed
>>> > to work well. However, did not try the Budget feature there. I would
>>> > like
>>> > to
>>> > use an open source operating system but sharing word processor files
>>> > with
>>> > my
>>> > teachers and students proves difficult because Google Drive and
>>> > LibreOffice
>>> > render Word tables remarkably differently than Microsoft, and even make
>>> > changes so that the documents are really different when run in Windows
>>> > again. I know of no way to get around this. I hope that these problems
>>> > are
>>> > solved in the near future as I would love to use Linux machines
>>> > exclusively.
>>> > We want to move more toward open-source software systems. GnuCash, even
>>> > with
>>> > its limitations running in a Windows environment, is great (except for
>>> > Budget). We have also started using OpenSiS-CE for our school
>>> > information
>>> > management system.
>>> >
>>> > So I guess I will wait for the software experts to see what they can do
>>> > about this Budget thing. I would really like to use this feature for
>>> > planning.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for your help
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > View this message in context: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.
>>> > nabble.com/Budget-Slowing-Down-Windows-10-tp4693398p4693425.html
>>> > Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> > ___
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>>> >
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>>
>>
>
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Re: Help needed: 2.6.17 not building on 32-bit systems

[Rich Shepard]

On Sun, 3 Sep 2017, Rich Shepard wrote:


I don't have libgtk-x11.so here ...


  Correction: the library is installed:

$ ll /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 963 Sep 10  2016 /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.la
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  27 Aug 19 18:39 /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so -> 
libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.2400.31*
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  27 Aug 19 18:39 /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 -> 
libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.2400.31*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4621348 Sep 10  2016 
/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.2400.31*

so gnucash should find it.

  Furthermore:

$ locate libgnc-gnome
/opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/libgnc-gnome.la
/opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.so.0
/opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.lai
/opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.so.0.0.0
/opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.so
/opt/SBo/gnucash-2.6.17/src/gnome/.libs/libgnc-gnome.la

  Since libgnc-gnome is present in the src/ directory, what might be keeping
it from being recognized as present?

Rich
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Re: Tax Tables - an illustrated primer?

[John Ralls]

> On Sep 3, 2017, at 4:40 AM, Geert Janssens  wrote:
> 
> On zondag 3 september 2017 06:29:48 CEST Christopher Lam wrote:
>> Hi Users & Devs,
>> 
>> I'd like to gather data on how Business > Tax Tables are currently being
>> used by users. Tutorial is rather blank on this; says "set up your tax
>> tables", "choose name, entries and percentage or amount", and in doubt,
>> seek an accountant who usually doesn't use gnc.
>> 
>> From my understanding, Tax Tables are mainly used to *automatically*
>> calculate various county and state taxes as applied to business invoices
>> and bills... but it's rather confusing that:
>> - menu is labelled 'Sales Tax Tables' but the tables are designed for both
>> sales & purchase taxes
> 
> True. I have wondered about this also. I assume "Sales Tax" is a standard 
> term 
> in American English ? It helps to consider that the difference between an 
> invoice or a bill is only from which side of the transaction you look at it. 
> The bill you receive from your vendor is an invoice from their point of view. 
> Strictly speaking they are all invoices, but the name bill was adopted in 
> gnucash to make the differentiation easier (I was told it's a common name for 
> invoices you have to pay).

Yes, though it’s more “American law” than “American English”, and in the sense 
of “American” as “applying to the USA”, a usage that sometimes annoys our 
Canadian cousins. The USA has no national consumption or (for most products) 
transfer taxes. Many states impose a "sales tax” on the final transfer of a 
good to the end user/consumer, and many of those states allow smaller 
jurisdictions (it’s counties in California) to have a local rate higher than 
the state’s. The tax is collected by the seller (hence “sales tax”) and 
remitted to the state periodically (usually monthly). 

“Bill” in the accounting sense and “Invoice” are generally interchangeable in 
normal usage.

As to “sales” and “purchase” tax, I suppose that if there’s an actual 
distinction there it would have to be which party remits the tax to the state. 
In California the law says that a transfer of a good to an end user is taxable. 
If the seller is under the state’s jurisdiction then they’re responsible for 
remitting the tax, but if not then the buyer is. There’s a even a box on the 
annual state income tax form for paying the sales tax on items that one 
purchased out or state.

Since we’re about to do a new major release this would be a good time to change 
the nomenclature to something more generic if we want, or we could translate 
“Sales _Tax Table” in en_GB.po to “VAT/GST Table” and leave it as is for the 
“C” locale. Amusingly the tooltip for that is "View and edit the list of Sales 
Tax Tables (GST/VAT)” and isn’t translated in en_GB.po.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: Tax Tables - an illustrated primer?

[David Carlson]

In the United States "Sales Tax" is a generic term for taxes that are
collected at the point-of-sale and usually turned over to a state, city,
county or other government agency by retailers.

It is even difficult to make a concise and grammatically correct statement
to describe the process.

I live near Cook County Illinois in the Chicago area where the county
decided recently to tax all sweetened beverages by the ounce, as you
probably read in the Internet.  For that tax, it is calculated in a silly
way  and it is only supposed to be collected by retailers selling at
certain business addresses, but perhaps not across the street.

On the other hand, automobile sales taxes are determined by the buyer's
residence address and must be collected by automobile retailers when
completing a sale along with a lot of other paperwork, that cannot be
completed on Sunday when all car dealers cannot sell cars.  However, if a
car is purchased in a private sale, a different, but equally daunting set
of rules apply.

That is why business lawyers and accountants are very busy around here, and
any business that is too big to do all the calculations manually uses some
sort of point-of-sale software to handle the collection process.  It would
be overwhelming for even a very small retail business to try to use GnuCash
for that.

That is my two cents.

David C

On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:40 AM, Geert Janssens 
wrote:

> On zondag 3 september 2017 06:29:48 CEST Christopher Lam wrote:
> > Hi Users & Devs,
> >
> > I'd like to gather data on how Business > Tax Tables are currently being
> > used by users. Tutorial is rather blank on this; says "set up your tax
> > tables", "choose name, entries and percentage or amount", and in doubt,
> > seek an accountant who usually doesn't use gnc.
> >
> > From my understanding, Tax Tables are mainly used to *automatically*
> > calculate various county and state taxes as applied to business invoices
> > and bills... but it's rather confusing that:
> > - menu is labelled 'Sales Tax Tables' but the tables are designed for
> both
> > sales & purchase taxes
>
> True. I have wondered about this also. I assume "Sales Tax" is a standard
> term
> in American English ? It helps to consider that the difference between an
> invoice or a bill is only from which side of the transaction you look at
> it.
> The bill you receive from your vendor is an invoice from their point of
> view.
> Strictly speaking they are all invoices, but the name bill was adopted in
> gnucash to make the differentiation easier (I was told it's a common name
> for
> invoices you have to pay).
>
> > - multiple tax table entries are possible
> > - each tax table entry allows *multiple* account selection, each with its
> > own percentage/amount and tax account
> I don't think this is exactly correct.
> One can define multiple tax tables. Each tax table can have multiple tax
> table
> entries. And each entry has *exactly one* tax account.
>
> >
> > So instead of delving deep into theory of taxes and how they apply, could
> > users please let me know illustrated examples of how they have set up
> their
> > tables in their jurisdiction, and example invoices/bills that apply? I'm
> > especially keen on an example of an invoice/bill which has multiple
> > entries, each with its own tax table, and the tax table entry
> incorporates
> > multiple tax accounts. (If this makes any sense... because the software
> > supports it!)
> >
> Practical examples in Belgium:
> Depending on the type of good or service being sold we have different tax
> (VAT/GST) regimes.
> On 'luxury goods' (very broad term) we are required to charge 21% VAT
> On food only 6% VAT is charged
>
> That requires me to define two tax tables:
> One for 21% VAT
> One for 6% VAT
>
> So whenever I buy a 'luxury good', I select the 21% VAT tax table for that
> good on the bill. When I buy groceries, I select that 6% VAT tax table. I
> can
> also shop in a big shopping mall and buy both something considered luxury
> and
> some groceries. In that case some lines on the bill will be assigned the
> 21%
> VAT tax table and some the 6% one.
>
> Note these are very simple tax tables. They both have only one entry
> setting
> the percentage and an account to collect the VAT. It makes it easier for my
> VAT declaration to track the diffent VAT percentages in separate accounts
> so I
> have accounts for 6% VAT and 21% VAT.
>
> On to a more complicated example: Europe has some special legislation
> regarding sales across country borders. When I sell something to a German
> client (being in Belgium myself), I don't have to charge VAT on the
> invoice,
> but I do have to declare this VAT to the VAT office in two separate lines:
> - I have to count the VAT as 21% sales tax (adding it to all the VAT
> collected
> on invoices for Belgian customers)
> - I have to add it to a special entry that counts all the VAT I did not
> collect because it was an intra-European sale.
>
> 

Re: Help needed: 2.6.17 not building on 32-bit systems

[Rich Shepard]

On Sat, 2 Sep 2017, John Ralls wrote:


It’s part of GnuCash. Any library that starts with libgnc or libgncmod is
part of GnuCash. Its main external dependency is libgtk-x11.so though it
has several others in the Gnome stack.


John,

  I thought it was provided by gnucash. I don't have libgtk-x11.so here so I
need to find what provides that. I believe that I have the other
dependencies (see below).


You do know that there are distros that do provide GnuCash and quite
possibly the other programs you need without your having to build them
yourself, right?


  Yes. I've been building applications (and the occasional kernel) for 20
years. The dependencies are goffice-0.8, libgnomecanvas, libofx, and
webkitgtk (which requires libwebp). These are all installed here.

  Now to track down libgtk-x11.

Many thanks,

Rich


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Re: Help needed: 2.6.17 not building on 32-bit systems

[Jean-David Beyer]

On 09/02/2017 09:50 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Sep 2017, Rich Shepard wrote:
> 
>> I believe resolving version incompatibilities will fix the problem.
>> Perhaps that upgraded libicul18n libraries broke gnucash led me down this
>> long path. That'll be the next tests if needed.
> 
>   I've cleaned out the rest of the cruft from long ago. There are now no
> duplicate files in /usr/ and /usr/local/.
> 
>   With the older dependency versions, 2.6.17 now cannot find
> "libgnc-gnome".
> My web search for the package that provides that finds no hits. What should
> provide that file?
> 

Do you have them and the build procedure cannot find them?
Or are they not there at all?

I have never built gnucash, though I run it all the time.
On my Red Hat Enterprise Linux system, running with a 4-core 64-bit Xeon
processor, they are here:

/usr/lib64/gnucash/libgnc-gnome.so
/usr/lib64/gnucash/libgnc-gnome.so.0
/usr/lib64/gnucash/libgnc-gnome.so.0.0.0

On a 32-bit machine, they would be in /usr/lib instead of /usr/lib64.
Thus (Trillian was my old 32-bit machine):

/D2P1/Trillian/usr/lib/gnucash/libgnc-gnome.so
/D2P1/Trillian/usr/lib/gnucash/libgnc-gnome.so.0
/D2P1/Trillian/usr/lib/gnucash/libgnc-gnome.so.0.0.0

Since Red Hat do not support GnuCash, I must have gotten that library
somewhere else. I see it came with

$ rpm -qf /usr/lib64/gnucash/libgnc-gnome.so
gnucash-2.4.15-4.el6.x86_64


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