Re: [GNC] Balance sheet unusable for LANG="de..."; was: Bad account setup in Guide §12

[David Cousens]

Thanks John

Will add this into the documentation.  It is a little bit obscure when you
came at it as a new user.

David



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Re: [GNC] About bookkeeping and claiming non-currency expenses.

[David Cousens]

Christopher,

When I used to have to do this, I created sub-accounts for expenses which
could be claimed against tax and expenses which were personal but not tax
deducible.  My calculations were all external to my accounting using
spreadsheets.  

E.g when a utility bill came in I would apportion it on the basis that
applied under the tax rules to home office costs which was basically floor
area percentage x percentage of time used for that purpose and split the
utility bill between the Deductible Expenses and non-Deductiblel expenses on
that basis. 

Similarly with car costs, the ratio of business kilometers from the logbook
to total kilometers was used to apportion costs. At the time you had a
choice of a rate /business km or a the relevant fraction of all costs and
you were free to choose whichever was advatageous.  The primary records were
maintained in logbooks and transferred an external spreadsheet and the
relevant amounts then recorded in my accounts periodically with a similar
apportionment of the total incurred costs between deductible and
non-deductible expense groups. The logbooks were the primary record and
along with the spreadsheets and account books formed the tax records which
had to be kept for the relevant statutory period.

I currently have a number of income sources which are taxable and some which
are not so I similarly have subaccounts for taxable and non-taxable income.
I assign the income and expenses in each category in accordance with the tax
rules specified by the ATO in  my case and then all i have to do when filing
a tax return is fill in the requisite entries. I no longer run a business
other than on a hobby basis so deductions are non-existent now.

I think the working from home allowance will be regarded as income. The
question then arises as to whether it is taxable or not and what costs are
allowed as deductions against it and/or your total income. you could use an
accounts receivable structure similar to the business features (but probably
not those features specifically as that commits you to recording invoices
and bills. E.g something like



Dr   Cr
Income:WorkFromHomeAllowance
xx
Asset:AccountsReceivable:WorkFromHomeAllowance xx

and when you receive the actual payment:


Dr   Cr
Asset:Bank:Checking xx
Asset:AccountsReceivable:WorkFromHomeAllowancexx

Exactly what you record will depend on the exact conditions and the relevant
taxation rules.

David



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Re: [GNC] Balance sheet unusable for LANG="de..."; was: Bad account setup in Guide §12

[David Cousens]

Frank,

It is not clear to me,the extent to which the gains and losses claculated are 
realized or unrealized. For example if I
transfer $1000 AUD to USD at one exchange rate and then transfer $300 USD of it 
back at a different exchange rate the
AUD trading account records the difference between the amount traded in the 
first transaction and the amount received
back in the second. What is reported as a Trading Loss in the balance sheet, 
appears to be the difference between the
AUD and USD trading accounts, from a a couple of simple experiments in this 
case. It is not until the whole amount
initially transferred is transferred back that the balance represents an actual 
realized gain or loss.  In this case one
could have an unrealized gain or loss on the amount that is still held in the 
foreign currency account and a realized
gain or loss on the amount which has been transferred back.  I have not done 
enough experimentation at this stage
(and/or looked at the Scheme code) to understand fully what is happening and 
what is being reported where under what
circumstances. 

I think I need to document that first and develop test cases where I can 
manually calculate the gains and
losses both unrealized and realized to establish how they are actually being 
treated with the trading accounts in each
case before raising any alarms with the rest of the developers unnecessarily. 
Once that is known then if I can determine
under what circumstances realized gains and losses are reported in profit and 
loss and when in equity and when and where
unrealized gains and losses are also reported. 

At that point I can look at the reporting requirements in a few major
jurisdictions. Then I can make a decent case to the rest of the developers as 
to what needs to be done if anything-
possibly some general reporting options that a user can set to direct the 
realized and unrealized gains appropriately
for a given jurisdiction. It may be posssible that this has been examined 
already but it won't hurt to have a check on
it anyway and doing this will allow me to create documentation on the trading 
accounts.

This doesn't affect where
realized and unrealized gains and losses are reported if you are doing manual 
calculations of them. Whether you position
the relevant accounts under income and/or expense or in equity should determine 
where they are reported, at least in
principle. I remember  some discussion in the past as to how tostructure the 
report when you had both manually calculate
gains and losses for some situations and also had trading losses on forex 
transactions.

Hopefully this is not a goose chase and opening the can of worms will catch 
some fish.

Cheers

David


On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 16:26 +0200, Frank H. Ellenberger wrote:
> David
> 
> Am 17.04.20 um 13:00 schrieb David Cousens:
> > Frank 
> > 
> > In that case you should be concerned as the trading account balances are
> > currently reported under equity in the Balance sheet.
> > 
> > The attached is a Balance sheet run on a dummy book I created
> > Trading_Test_BalSheet.png
> > 
> >   
> 
> Oh, that makes the balance sheet useless for german and probably other
> users. Unrealized gains/losses do not belong in the balance. The user
> has to manually enter value adjustments in the closing book process
> according local law to reflect them, if applicable.
> 
> That was also the reason, why the trading accounts were not implemented
> over a decade.
> 
> > The dummy book is attached as well
> > Test_trading.gnucash
> >   
> > 
> > The amount shown under Equity as trading losses is the sum of the balances
> > of the trading accounts in AUD and USD expressed as AUD after a couple of
> > dummy transfers from AUD->USD->AUD and USD_>AUD->USD with changes in the
> > exchange rate between them. 
> > 
> > The IFRS and FASB both require trading gains/losses where trading is the
> > main operation of the entity to be reported as Other Comprehensive Income
> > whereas incidental trading  gains and losses where they are not main
> > activity of the business are normally reported through normal profit and
> > loss. The situation is different for companies and for individuals at least
> > in Australia as individual's capital gains are taxed here at an individuals
> > marginal tax rate (variable stepped scale depending on assessabletaxable
> > income) whereas capital gains in companies are taxed at the company tax
> > rate.
> > 
> > The IFRS is like most standards/legislation difficult to make sense of
> > unless you have a glossary and the inital definitions etc all open at once.
> > The Australia standards pretty well follow the IFRS but there will be some
> > excpetions and the FASB is trying to converge on the IFRS and has apparently
> > in this area. From what I can gather the HGB is also IFRS based but the
> > question 

Re: [GNC] About bookkeeping and claiming non-currency expenses.

[David Carlson]

To Adrien's point, there are many cases where the expenses are covered by
other accounts such as fuel and maintenance for vehicles, but I was
addressing the cases where certain expenses have a different tax bucket
than the norm or possibly even off-the-books such as personal car used for
business, medical or charity.

And to address Christopher, another off-the-books income account would be a
way to offset the otherwise double charged expenses.

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:29 AM Christopher Lam 
wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 15:53, Rich Shepard 
> wrote:
>
> > What I do for non-cash donations (to Goodwill, for example) is enter the
> > value in an expense account called 'Donations - non-cash'. You could have
> > expense accounts for milage and volunteer time if appropriate. (I have
> run
> > my consultancy from home for 27 years and have separate books for
> personal
> > and business transactions.)
> >
>
> But what lies at the other end of mileage? eg drive 20km for visiting
> client & back, claim $0.50/km, means you write $10 mileage claim for today
> and deduct what account?
>
> > For example, you have personal auto expenses that may or may not be
> broken out into R, Fuel, etc. Those are paid cash/check/charge and are
> accounted for in full
>
> No. e.g. auto expenses can be either percentage business use of car (i.e.
> labour intensive, track all motoring expenses) or simplified dollar per
> business km. I wish to claim for dollar per expense.
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Re: [GNC] Balance sheet unusable for LANG="de..."; was: Bad account setup in Guide §12

[John Ralls]

> On Apr 17, 2020, at 7:26 AM, Frank H. Ellenberger 
>  wrote:
> 
> David
> 
> Am 17.04.20 um 13:00 schrieb David Cousens:
>> Frank 
>> 
>> In that case you should be concerned as the trading account balances are
>> currently reported under equity in the Balance sheet.
>> 
>> The attached is a Balance sheet run on a dummy book I created
>> Trading_Test_BalSheet.png
>> 
>>   
> 
> Oh, that makes the balance sheet useless for german and probably other
> users. Unrealized gains/losses do not belong in the balance. The user
> has to manually enter value adjustments in the closing book process
> according local law to reflect them, if applicable.
> 
> That was also the reason, why the trading accounts were not implemented
> over a decade.

If you don't want unrealized gains change the price source to Average Cost.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: [GNC] About bookkeeping and claiming non-currency expenses.

[Christopher Lam]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 15:53, Rich Shepard  wrote:

> What I do for non-cash donations (to Goodwill, for example) is enter the
> value in an expense account called 'Donations - non-cash'. You could have
> expense accounts for milage and volunteer time if appropriate. (I have run
> my consultancy from home for 27 years and have separate books for personal
> and business transactions.)
>

But what lies at the other end of mileage? eg drive 20km for visiting
client & back, claim $0.50/km, means you write $10 mileage claim for today
and deduct what account?

> For example, you have personal auto expenses that may or may not be
broken out into R, Fuel, etc. Those are paid cash/check/charge and are
accounted for in full

No. e.g. auto expenses can be either percentage business use of car (i.e.
labour intensive, track all motoring expenses) or simplified dollar per
business km. I wish to claim for dollar per expense.
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Re: [GNC] About bookkeeping and claiming non-currency expenses.

[Adrien Monteleone]

I could be misunderstanding, but I think the question is about tracking 
deductions for expenses that are already accounted for. I don’t see it as cash 
vs. non-cash. (such as in-kind)

For example, you have personal auto expenses that may or may not be broken out 
into R, Fuel, etc. Those are paid cash/check/charge and are accounted for in 
full.

Some tax authorities allow you a deduction from taxable income for using your 
auto for certain purposes, like a pass-thru business.

One option would be something like:

Dr. Liabilities:Tax Due
  Cr. Expenses:Taxes

with a memo about what the deduction is for.

This might be an issue depending on how the main Expenses:Taxes transaction is 
entered and calculated. It would have to be entered as if no deduction were 
taken for things to balance properly, or else reverse the various credits and 
just enter the net transaction at filing.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 17, 2020 w16d108, at 10:51 AM, Rich Shepard  
> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020, Christopher Lam wrote:
> 
>> This question is for the resident accountants and bookkeeping.
> 
> Christopher,
> 
> Check with your accountant for their preferences and local requirements.
> 
>> But there are numerous tax deductions allowed, that don't necessarily
>> belong in the book. For example:
>> - claiming mileage in dollar per km for business travel
>> - claiming home running costs (e.g. claiming $0.80/hour working from home
>> allowance)
>> - further examples welcome. etc.
> 
> What I do for non-cash donations (to Goodwill, for example) is enter the
> value in an expense account called 'Donations - non-cash'. You could have
> expense accounts for milage and volunteer time if appropriate. (I have run
> my consultancy from home for 27 years and have separate books for personal
> and business transactions.)
> 
> When I prepare reports for my accountant I include the non-cash donations
> with the personal balance sheet and income statement and business expenses
> from personal funds in the business balance sheet and income statement.
> We've been doing this for almost 2 decades and neither the feds, the state,
> nor the county have had any complaints.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Rich

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Re: [GNC] About bookkeeping and claiming non-currency expenses.

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020, Christopher Lam wrote:


This question is for the resident accountants and bookkeeping.


Christopher,

Check with your accountant for their preferences and local requirements.


But there are numerous tax deductions allowed, that don't necessarily
belong in the book. For example:
- claiming mileage in dollar per km for business travel
- claiming home running costs (e.g. claiming $0.80/hour working from home
allowance)
- further examples welcome. etc.


What I do for non-cash donations (to Goodwill, for example) is enter the
value in an expense account called 'Donations - non-cash'. You could have
expense accounts for milage and volunteer time if appropriate. (I have run
my consultancy from home for 27 years and have separate books for personal
and business transactions.)

When I prepare reports for my accountant I include the non-cash donations
with the personal balance sheet and income statement and business expenses
from personal funds in the business balance sheet and income statement.
We've been doing this for almost 2 decades and neither the feds, the state,
nor the county have had any complaints.

HTH,

Rich

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Re: [GNC] About bookkeeping and claiming non-currency expenses.

[David Carlson]

This is definitely not " a method to record this data safely (i.e.
satisfies the
accounting equation...) in the datafile, suitable for audit?" but a trick
that I have used for years is to create special accounts under a
placeholder I call _Non-Cash Expenses for _Mileage-Medical and
_Mileage_Charity .  Then, when I drive to the doctors office I will include
in the Co-Pay transaction a split line for the mileage. I also need a
non-cash-income collector account to offset those expenses but it helps me
at tax time to know how those miles add up.  Once I tried to create custom
currencies for those so I could assign exchange rates for reimbursements
that could change when the reimbursement rates changed, but that got too
complicated for a retiree.

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 9:50 AM Christopher Lam 
wrote:

> This question is for the resident accountants and bookkeeping.
>
> As we know if our book has *complete and* *perfect* information, the
> reports make accountant very happy.
>
> But there are numerous tax deductions allowed, that don't necessarily
> belong in the book. For example:
> - claiming mileage in dollar per km for business travel
> - claiming home running costs (e.g. claiming $0.80/hour working from home
> allowance)
> - further examples welcome. etc.
>
> Do bookkeepers have a method to record this data safely (i.e. satisfies the
> accounting equation...) in the datafile, suitable for audit?
>
> Thanks!
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[GNC] About bookkeeping and claiming non-currency expenses.

[Christopher Lam]

This question is for the resident accountants and bookkeeping.

As we know if our book has *complete and* *perfect* information, the
reports make accountant very happy.

But there are numerous tax deductions allowed, that don't necessarily
belong in the book. For example:
- claiming mileage in dollar per km for business travel
- claiming home running costs (e.g. claiming $0.80/hour working from home
allowance)
- further examples welcome. etc.

Do bookkeepers have a method to record this data safely (i.e. satisfies the
accounting equation...) in the datafile, suitable for audit?

Thanks!
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[GNC] Balance sheet unusable for LANG="de..."; was: Bad account setup in Guide §12

[Frank H. Ellenberger]

David

Am 17.04.20 um 13:00 schrieb David Cousens:
> Frank 
> 
> In that case you should be concerned as the trading account balances are
> currently reported under equity in the Balance sheet.
> 
> The attached is a Balance sheet run on a dummy book I created
> Trading_Test_BalSheet.png
>  
>  

Oh, that makes the balance sheet useless for german and probably other
users. Unrealized gains/losses do not belong in the balance. The user
has to manually enter value adjustments in the closing book process
according local law to reflect them, if applicable.

That was also the reason, why the trading accounts were not implemented
over a decade.

> The dummy book is attached as well
> Test_trading.gnucash
>   
> 
> The amount shown under Equity as trading losses is the sum of the balances
> of the trading accounts in AUD and USD expressed as AUD after a couple of
> dummy transfers from AUD->USD->AUD and USD_>AUD->USD with changes in the
> exchange rate between them. 
> 
> The IFRS and FASB both require trading gains/losses where trading is the
> main operation of the entity to be reported as Other Comprehensive Income
> whereas incidental trading  gains and losses where they are not main
> activity of the business are normally reported through normal profit and
> loss. The situation is different for companies and for individuals at least
> in Australia as individual's capital gains are taxed here at an individuals
> marginal tax rate (variable stepped scale depending on assessabletaxable
> income) whereas capital gains in companies are taxed at the company tax
> rate.
> 
> The IFRS is like most standards/legislation difficult to make sense of
> unless you have a glossary and the inital definitions etc all open at once.
> The Australia standards pretty well follow the IFRS but there will be some
> excpetions and the FASB is trying to converge on the IFRS and has apparently
> in this area. From what I can gather the HGB is also IFRS based but the
> question is how closely.

No, the base has been the german "Grundsätze ordnungsgemäßer
Buchführung" (GOB):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunds%C3%A4tze_ordnungsm%C3%A4%C3%9Figer_Buchf%C3%BChrung

But by several EU directives starting in 2002 (most parts of) IFRS
became obligatory for public traded companies.

But smaller companies (our users) still use the GOB part of HGB.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Financial_Reporting_Standards#Verbindlichkeit
and #Unterschiede_zu_nationalem_Recht

> Iy seems in most cases there are situations where
> it is reported in income and others where it is reported in equity. I will
> start sorting through the legisaltion and see if I can tabulate the
> requirements in a few major jurisdictions cf the IFRS requirements. Might
> take a while to do.  I can track down the Australian situation for companies
> fairly easily as my daughter is a company accountant and handles reporting
> on it all the time.
> 
> I seem to remember a lot of discussion fairly recently in the last couple of
> years when Chris was updating various reports in either the Dev or User
> forums. I'll track that down to see what light it sheds on the situation.

Yes, I did not watch changes on reports very closely.
As I do not know the rules in other countries, but Switzerland and
Austria have similar principles, a workaround might be to move the
pending results out of the balance (just as it was in the old report)
for LANG settings starting with "de".

> David
Frank
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Re: [GNC] Bad account setup in Guide §12; was: Should i create "Equity Account" for each currency I had ?

[David Cousens]

Frank 

In that case you should be concerned as the trading account balances are
currently reported under equity in the Balance sheet.

The attached is a Balance sheet run on a dummy book I created
Trading_Test_BalSheet.png
  

The dummy book is attached as well
Test_trading.gnucash
  

The amount shown under Equity as trading losses is the sum of the balances
of the trading accounts in AUD and USD expressed as AUD after a couple of
dummy transfers from AUD->USD->AUD and USD_>AUD->USD with changes in the
exchange rate between them. 

The IFRS and FASB both require trading gains/losses where trading is the
main operation of the entity to be reported as Other Comprehensive Income
whereas incidental trading  gains and losses where they are not main
activity of the business are normally reported through normal profit and
loss. The situation is different for companies and for individuals at least
in Australia as individual's capital gains are taxed here at an individuals
marginal tax rate (variable stepped scale depending on assessabletaxable
income) whereas capital gains in companies are taxed at the company tax
rate.

The IFRS is like most standards/legislation difficult to make sense of
unless you have a glossary and the inital definitions etc all open at once.
The Australia standards pretty well follow the IFRS but there will be some
excpetions and the FASB is trying to converge on the IFRS and has apparently
in this area. From what I can gather the HGB is also IFRS based but the
question is how closely. Iy seems in most cases there are situations where
it is reported in income and others where it is reported in equity. I will
start sorting through the legisaltion and see if I can tabulate the
requirements in a few major jurisdictions cf the IFRS requirements. Might
take a while to do.  I can track down the Australian situation for companies
fairly easily as my daughter is a company accountant and handles reporting
on it all the time.

I seem to remember a lot of discussion fairly recently in the last couple of
years when Chris was updating various reports in either the Dev or User
forums. I'll track that down to see what light it sheds on the situation.

David



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Re: [GNC] Bad account setup in Guide §12; was: Should i create "Equity Account" for each currency I had ?

[Frank H. Ellenberger]

David,

Am 17.04.20 um 04:58 schrieb David Cousens:
> Frank
> 
> Ignore my comment about whether trading gains and losses should appear in
> the balance sheet or  income statement. I've done a bit of research and both
> under the FASB in the US and the IFRS and the AAS in Australia as far as I
> can tell such gains and losses are recognized and reported under Equity as
> Other Comprehensive Income so the current balance sheet reports them
> appropriately.
> 
> David
> 
that might be right for common law countries, following the fair value
principle (protecting shareholders). But e.g. german HGB follows the
lowest value principle (protecting creditors). So on current assets we
have to enter depreciations while closing the book, but impairments are
not allowed. So I am happy, the trading gains are currently not part of
the balance.

Frank
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Re: [GNC] Budget Report 3.10

[Thomas Salt]

Hi,
I have checked the budget options and I only have a single budget that 
is selected hence I see the Budget Values just not the Actual Values.

Many Thanks
Tom S


-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  On 
Behalf Of Adrien Monteleone
Sent: 16 April 2020 16:21
To: Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Budget Report 3.10

I just ran a budget report and I’m seeing actual values, so it is not a general 
bug.

Double check that the right budget is selected in Options > General > Budget

Regards,
Adrien
> On Apr 16, 2020 w16d107, at 4:16 AM, Thomas Salt  wrote:
> 
> Hi Guys,
>I have just tried to run the standard Budget Report. It shows 
> my Budget Values, but no Actual values. If I click and open one of the 
> categories all the entries are shown. Please can you advise.
> 
> [A screenshot of a cell phone  Description automatically generated]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [A screenshot of a cell phone  Description automatically generated]
> 
> 
> Many Thanks
> 
> Tom S

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