[GNC] When closing books, equity statement report is incorrect

[Quinn Wood]

How do I close my books at the end of a period and have the Equity
Statement Report correctly show capital investments and withdrawals without
classifying retained earnings as either? Retained earnings are neither.

I've every combination of workflows I can think of.
* closing Q3 books into a separate top-level Income Summary account then
transferring (in Q4) retained earnings and any declared dividends into
Retained Earnings (an equity account) and Dividends Payable (a liability
account)
* closing Q3 books directly into Retained Earnings and later (in Q4)
transferring declared dividends into Dividends Payable
* using closing and dividend transaction descriptions that match the
closing entries pattern in the Equity Statement report, that do not, or any
combination of the two
* including and excluding the Income Summary and/or Retained Earnings
accounts in the Equity Statement report
* closing Q4 books the same way as I closed Q3

My Q4 report is either full of incorrectly-interpreted numbers it's pulling
from the Q4 closing entries (if I don't exclude them) or it's just missing
data (if I exclude a transaction that includes transfers to retained
earnings or dividends payable.)

I can't find a way to do this that works. What is this workflow supposed to
look like?
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Re: [GNC] Attaching receipts to expenses voucher

[Michael or Penny Novack]

Yeah, I tried that, but in the Employee -> New expenses voucher -> Edit
Expense Voucher list, right-clicking on the Description block doesn't
bring up any context menu (there isn't a memo block on this page).  Of
course, trying to do this in the target expense account doesn't work as
the transaction is automatically marked read-only.

Maybe this is a bug?

Chris


Well -- gnucash is just the "general ledger" part of a business system 
(not an entire business system). So I would not consider failure to 
associate documents to transactions WITHIN gnucash to be a bug.


Maybe turn this around? It is the association that you really need, 
whether within or outside of gnucash. One of the problems here is that 
gnucash is "virtual journal" and it with the journal entry (the entire 
transaction) I would expect to associate documentation << not with parts 
of the transaction -- I do understand that you can think of receipts 
belonging to separate parts but "receipts" just a special case of 
documentation.


Let's say in the description field you put a "number" (say "receipt file 
#1234). And you have a file of receipts which to which your assign 
numbers. In other words, you have a reference "here is where the 
receipts related to this general ledger may be found.In reverse, the 
receipt record should include a reference to the transaction (date, etc.)


If this seems odd to you (not having them IN the general ledger) think 
of pen and oink on paper days. You would expect to be pasting receipts 
into the ledger book?


This is an AUDITING matter (given a transaction, can you produce the 
receipts associated with a transaction)



Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Attaching receipts to expenses voucher

[David Cousens]

Chris,

If you create a document with a word processor (Word, Writer etc) and then cut
and  paste the receipts into it in the desired order to match the lines in the
expense voucher then
with the voucher open click on the BUsiness->Manage Document Link in the menu
and add the link to the document you created. 

The other way to do it would be to just  have links to the original receipts in
the document you create and attach but that introduces an additional step to get
to the copies of the receipts from the voucher

David Cousens
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Re: [GNC] Attaching receipts to expenses voucher

[David Cousens]

Chris,

The current document linking only appears to be able to link a single file to
the expense voucher and not a file to each line. One way to do it would be to
include the individual receipts numbered in a document and link that document to
the voucher.

David Cousens

On Sat, 2023-10-21 at 12:30 +0100, Chris Jewell wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Great to be using GNUcash for a small kayaking club in the north of
> England!  I'm finding the software pretty easy to use so far, except for
> being able to attach receipts to expenses claims.
> 
> My workflow is to raise an expenses voucher for an "employee's" (i.e.
> member) expenses claim, and split the voucher against various expenses
> accounts.  However, it would be good to attach a receipt to each line of
> the expenses claim before posting the voucher, and ultimately paying it.
> 
> How do I do this, I wonder?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris
> 
> GNUcash version 5.4 Flatpak (Linux Mint 21)
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[James Thomas]

It may be because I have a lot of experience and training in accounting,
but it seems to me that using different terms depending on the account just
adds to the confusion. To me, using just "debit" and "credit" is a lot
easier - but one must understand three accounting basics:

1. that every account belongs in one of 5 different groups,
2. that, depending upon which "group" the account is in, it will normally
have either a debit or credit balance,.and
3. that the sum of debits minus credits in each transaction must equal zero
- without exception.

*Grouping*  *"normal balance"*

Assets  debit
Liabilities  credit
Income credit
Expense   debit
Equity   credit (but note that, if the business has been
incurring more expenses than revenue, the Equity balance will be abnormal -
a debit)

A "normal" posting to any account increases its "normal" balance. So an
increase to an asset account (checking, savings, investments, Accounts
Receivable, etc) would be a debit as would an increase to any expense
account.

However, any increase to a liability account's "normal"  balance (credit
card, loan) would be a credit as would any increase to an Income account.

This explains the confusion over whether credit means "increase" or
"decrease". *It means neither* in accounting terms. Whether a credit
increases or decreases an account depends on what type of account it is
(i.e. which "grouping" the account is in).

So, some ordinary entries for those of us just keeping track of home
finances would include:

  *debit
(dr)credit (cr)*

*paid for groceries w/credit (increases both balances):*

Visa card
50
groceries expense   50

*paid credit card from checking acct (decreases both balances)*

checking acct
  25
Visa card  25

*got my paycheck (increases both)*

checking acct  600
Income
 600


*Balances (all normal)*

Checking  575
Visa
 25
Income
600
Expense 50

Total *625*
  *625*

*Businesses "close books" at the end of the year (income and expenses are
set to zero by making "abnormal" entries in the amount of their year-end
balances). *
*Assets and liabilities are not "closed" but retain their balances.*

Income   600
Expense
50
Equity
550


Hope this helps - or at least doesn't add to the confusion :(


Jim Thomas

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:39 PM R Losey  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 11:57 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On 10/20/2023 11:47 AM, Edwin Booth wrote:
> > > Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really
> > > interesting. I don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very
> > > hard to set aside the use of credit and debit in the modern sense and
> > > use them in a very different way. Counter intuitive.
> >
> > Not exactly. The confusion over "modern sense" is something else. Thus
> > when R. Losey says:
> >
> > "It*IS*  hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different
> from
> > the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people
> tend
> > to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean
> "increase",
> > and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully
> > explain."
> >
> >  No, the confusion is NOT because accounting use is different but
> > confusion over whose books are you looking at. We are sued to seeing
> > these "in reverse" on statements we from from the bank for our bank
> > accounts or credit card accounts because on those it is from THEIR point
> > of view, not ours.
> >
>
> I disagree; I've heard people in non-financial situations use "debit" to
> mean "decrease" and "credit" for "increase"; such as "His recent actions
> have credited his stock of goodwill "  or "he owes me; I have a huge credit
> balance with him".
>
> But this is starting to get away from GnuCash.
>
> _
> Richard Losey
> rlo...@gmail.com
> Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Attaching receipts to expenses voucher

[chrism0dwk]

> Right-click on a Description or Memo block and select "Manage >
Document
> Link...".

> That is how it works in 4.14; I don't imagine it's much different in
> 5.4.

Yeah, I tried that, but in the Employee -> New expenses voucher -> Edit
Expense Voucher list, right-clicking on the Description block doesn't
bring up any context menu (there isn't a memo block on this page).  Of
course, trying to do this in the target expense account doesn't work as
the transaction is automatically marked read-only.  

Maybe this is a bug?

Chris
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[R Losey]

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 11:57 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 10/20/2023 11:47 AM, Edwin Booth wrote:
> > Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really
> > interesting. I don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very
> > hard to set aside the use of credit and debit in the modern sense and
> > use them in a very different way. Counter intuitive.
>
> Not exactly. The confusion over "modern sense" is something else. Thus
> when R. Losey says:
>
> "It*IS*  hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different from
> the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people tend
> to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean "increase",
> and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully
> explain."
>
>  No, the confusion is NOT because accounting use is different but
> confusion over whose books are you looking at. We are sued to seeing
> these "in reverse" on statements we from from the bank for our bank
> accounts or credit card accounts because on those it is from THEIR point
> of view, not ours.
>

I disagree; I've heard people in non-financial situations use "debit" to
mean "decrease" and "credit" for "increase"; such as "His recent actions
have credited his stock of goodwill "  or "he owes me; I have a huge credit
balance with him".

But this is starting to get away from GnuCash.

_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[R Losey]

This is what I have done, and it's been helpful to me.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:14 PM Fross, Michael  wrote:

> A help to me was to turn off 'Use Formal Accounting Labels" in the settings
> when I started (and have never enabled that.)  I feel it is much easier to
> understand for non-accounting people.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:53 PM Mark via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>
> > Oct 20, 2023 09:06:46 Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net
> > >:
> >
> > > That might not be of much help (understanding the terms "debit" and
> > "credit")
> > >
> > > History might, …
> >
> >
> > My point was that you don't *have* to learn all that before GnuCash will
> > be useful to you. The history *is* helpful to understand the terms fully,
> > but to start using GnuCash, you can start with learning how to enter
> where
> > the money comes from and where it goes, and learn more as you need it.
> > ___
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2023-10-21 08:58, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> Thanks again to all! But here’s a simple question that I need the answer to 
> so I may start entering expenses. I have set up an account hierarchy tree and 
> now I want to assign expense accounts to specific transactions that I made 
> with my credit cards. But I wish to add some accounts to the basic list. I 
> can’t figure out how to do that. 

It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk. Others
have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their messages.

I know there's a lot of documentation. But start with section "I. The
Basic Knowledge" in the Tutorial and Concepts Guide at


The answer to your question is in that chapter.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2023-10-20 18:35, David Cousens wrote:
> I disagree however that the non-accounting terminology should be the default.
> The non-accounting terminology is often not precise in its meaning whereas 
> once
> you have understood the definitions, the meaning of the accounting terminology
> and its use is well defined.  Accounting is a well documented commercial
> practice and the double entry system is core to its operation and GnuCash is
> primarily accounting software, not general financial software although it 
> does a
> very good job for small operations and can be adapted to that use. 

Very well stated!  I agree wholeheartedly.


Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

Thanks again to all! But here’s a simple question that I need the answer to so 
I may start entering expenses. I have set up an account hierarchy tree and now 
I want to assign expense accounts to specific transactions that I made with my 
credit cards. But I wish to add some accounts to the basic list. I can’t figure 
out how to do that. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 20, 2023, 8:35 PM, David Cousens  
wrote:


I do agree with the comments in your previous post that the concept of
transactions needs to be explained before or at least in parallel to  concept of
accounts. I rewrote a fair bit of the basics section of the guide when I was
fresh out of an accounting master's which might account for its more technical
bias.  I haven't revisited the guide much since then but I will take another
look at it. It is always a compromise between producing a full scale textbook
and brevity that someone will actually read.

Some other accounting software does indeed hide the details of the debit/credit
and the accounting equation and double entry from users. I am a convert from
software that did that and because that basis was hidden it made understanding
the accounts more difficult than it should, particularly during the setup phase
of a business. Add to that my highly paid accountant (one of big 4) was not
particularly useful. That can be useful for a lot of routine data entry, however
it is the edge cases that often require a deeper understanding of the basis of
double entry accounting.

I disagree however that the non-accounting terminology should be the default.
The non-accounting terminology is often not precise in its meaning whereas once
you have understood the definitions, the meaning of the accounting terminology
and its use is well defined.  Accounting is a well documented commercial
practice and the double entry system is core to its operation and GnuCash is
primarily accounting software, not general financial software although it does a
very good job for small operations and can be adapted to that use. 

It is also an excellent educational tool for formal accounting. I used it as
such while doing amaster's and it produced basic reports which conformed well
with what was expected for formal accounting reports.

David Cousens


On Sat, 2023-10-21 at 09:48 +1100, flywire wrote:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109184.html
> Edwin Booth wrote:
> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
> 
> No you don't but you do need to understand the concept of account types and
> moving money between them. I've studied economics at Uni, evaluated endless
> projects, used a range of accounting software, and worked with
> accountants and bookkeepers without being aware of how credit and debit is
> defined in accounting. I rarely used the terms, and most people that
> understood them would realise the common understanding is wrong and use the
> terms in a general sense or avoid them.
> 
> It's a pretty meaningless discussion commercial projects avoid to reduce
> confusion. The user documentation would be clearer with simple language:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/106929.html
> 
> Regards
> 
> > 
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Re: [GNC] Attaching receipts to expenses voucher

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

Right-click on a Description or Memo block and select "Manage Document
Link...".

That is how it works in 4.14; I don't imagine it's much different in 5.4.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

On 2023-10-21 04:30, Chris Jewell wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Great to be using GNUcash for a small kayaking club in the north of
> England!  I'm finding the software pretty easy to use so far, except for
> being able to attach receipts to expenses claims.
> 
> My workflow is to raise an expenses voucher for an "employee's" (i.e.
> member) expenses claim, and split the voucher against various expenses
> accounts.  However, it would be good to attach a receipt to each line of
> the expenses claim before posting the voucher, and ultimately paying it.
> 
> How do I do this, I wonder?
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Re: [GNC] Having issues with gsettings, dconf, gsettings-dconf-backend and GnuCash

[Bryan B.]

That is a good idea.

To give some context, without explaining everything: One week ago, I was
running the Ubuntu-based Pop_OS! 22.04. On that system, I had GnuCash built
using the "Building on Ubuntu" gnucash-wiki 22.04 script. I did not have
that issue at that time, nor the other GnuCash issue that I encountered
here:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2023-October/046795.html

I was having other issues with Pop_OS! (network issues that were needed on
my previous job), and at the recommendation of my previous employer I
decided to switch to mainstream Ubuntu.

When I switched to Ubuntu 23.10, this issue appeared, along with the issue
with gsettings.

Another issue that is worth mentioning, in case this happens to anyone
else, is that I got unlucky with the .iso file I used to install mainstream
Ubuntu. I somehow Googled my way into creating an .iso based off of 22.10,
which is a version of Ubuntu that is no longer supported. I installed on
22.10, then discovered my error. At that point, I upgraded to 23.10.

I also should mention another thing I just remembered. Whenever I open
dconf, even if I don't click anything, Terminator, a terminal app I use for
coding, stops working correctly: when I type text and approach the side of
the app window, three characters proceed off the edge of the screen before
the app's autowrapping feature kicks in and the following characters appear
on the next line down.

Also worth mentioning is that the issue with being unable to switch
gsettings background image on the desktop existed before installing the
dconf gui app.

Based on the feedback I am getting, it does seem that something deep within
ubuntu is likely broken and a complete reinstall from scratch is the only
reasonable way to fix this.

I do like the idea of rebuilding using a virtualbox 23.10 iso and getting
the system working first, before redoing everything. Thank you!



On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 4:06 AM David Carlson 
wrote:

> Bryan
>
> Have you considered breaking down your project into smaller projects with
> simpler milestones and goals?
>
> For example, first, install a prebuilt older release of Gnucash and see if
> it works with a data file in the conventional XML format stored either in a
> subdirectory under your Home folder or on a USB stick.
>
> Second, are you able to install, set up and use other software such as
> Libre Office or VLC?
>
> Third, can you build and run some other program that uses some of the same
> resources?
>
> Do you have access to a virtual machine where it easy to go back and start
> over when you find yourself in another rabbit hole?
>
> Best of luck with your project.
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 12:19 AM Bryan B.  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm new to GnuCash. Making the switch from Quicken. I'm excited about
>> being
>> able to access my raw data!
>>
>> Background info:
>>
>> My OS is Ubuntu 23.10.
>>
>> Running gnucash --version in the terminal returns:
>> GnuCash 5.3
>> Build ID: 5.3+(2023-06-26)
>>
>> I installed it through the Software Center.
>>
>> I did spend a great deal of time trying to get GnuCash to build via the
>> Wiki "Building on Ubuntu" page. However, I kept getting errors when
>> running
>> the build script. I figured it was because I am running Ubuntu 23.10, so I
>> gave up and went with the software center instead. If desired, I am
>> willing
>> to work with a dev who would like to troubleshoot.
>>
>> While working this week, I had two separate issues that popped up. As I
>> researched the answers, I learned from JRalls on #gnucash IRC that the two
>> issues are likely related.
>>
>> Regarding the issue that is related to GnuCash, in short, while working in
>> GnuCash I cannot get my settings to persist. If I delete a transaction and
>> the modal pops up asking me if I'm sure, and then I click the checkbox
>> that
>> states that I do not want to be asked again, this setting does not persist
>> during the session.
>>
>> Furthermore, if I quit and log back in, my file is not saved and I get the
>> New User "Import QIF" options pop up.
>>
>> For more information about this first issue, read the conversation I had
>> with GnuCash dev JRalls here.
>>
>> Link to Bug 799107 
>>
>> The other issue I have, that could be related, is that I am not able to
>> use
>> gsettings in the console to change my desktop background image.
>>
>> I can get the background image to change by opening the dconf GUI,
>> although
>> I had to play around with some dir perms for ~/.config/dconf/ to make that
>> happen. However, I still cannot get any changes reliably for my terminal
>> commands.
>>
>> JRalls informs me that GnuCash uses gsettings, dconf, and
>> gsettings-dconf-backend to make settings persist, and we thought it would
>> be best to ask here on #gnucash-user to see if anyone has any ideas.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> B
>> ___
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Re: [GNC] Having issues with gsettings, dconf, gsettings-dconf-backend and GnuCash

[David Carlson]

Bryan

Have you considered breaking down your project into smaller projects with
simpler milestones and goals?

For example, first, install a prebuilt older release of Gnucash and see if
it works with a data file in the conventional XML format stored either in a
subdirectory under your Home folder or on a USB stick.

Second, are you able to install, set up and use other software such as
Libre Office or VLC?

Third, can you build and run some other program that uses some of the same
resources?

Do you have access to a virtual machine where it easy to go back and start
over when you find yourself in another rabbit hole?

Best of luck with your project.

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 12:19 AM Bryan B.  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm new to GnuCash. Making the switch from Quicken. I'm excited about being
> able to access my raw data!
>
> Background info:
>
> My OS is Ubuntu 23.10.
>
> Running gnucash --version in the terminal returns:
> GnuCash 5.3
> Build ID: 5.3+(2023-06-26)
>
> I installed it through the Software Center.
>
> I did spend a great deal of time trying to get GnuCash to build via the
> Wiki "Building on Ubuntu" page. However, I kept getting errors when running
> the build script. I figured it was because I am running Ubuntu 23.10, so I
> gave up and went with the software center instead. If desired, I am willing
> to work with a dev who would like to troubleshoot.
>
> While working this week, I had two separate issues that popped up. As I
> researched the answers, I learned from JRalls on #gnucash IRC that the two
> issues are likely related.
>
> Regarding the issue that is related to GnuCash, in short, while working in
> GnuCash I cannot get my settings to persist. If I delete a transaction and
> the modal pops up asking me if I'm sure, and then I click the checkbox that
> states that I do not want to be asked again, this setting does not persist
> during the session.
>
> Furthermore, if I quit and log back in, my file is not saved and I get the
> New User "Import QIF" options pop up.
>
> For more information about this first issue, read the conversation I had
> with GnuCash dev JRalls here.
>
> Link to Bug 799107 
>
> The other issue I have, that could be related, is that I am not able to use
> gsettings in the console to change my desktop background image.
>
> I can get the background image to change by opening the dconf GUI, although
> I had to play around with some dir perms for ~/.config/dconf/ to make that
> happen. However, I still cannot get any changes reliably for my terminal
> commands.
>
> JRalls informs me that GnuCash uses gsettings, dconf, and
> gsettings-dconf-backend to make settings persist, and we thought it would
> be best to ask here on #gnucash-user to see if anyone has any ideas.
>
> Thanks.
>
> B
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[GNC] Attaching receipts to expenses voucher

[Chris Jewell]

Hi All,

Great to be using GNUcash for a small kayaking club in the north of
England!  I'm finding the software pretty easy to use so far, except for
being able to attach receipts to expenses claims.

My workflow is to raise an expenses voucher for an "employee's" (i.e.
member) expenses claim, and split the voucher against various expenses
accounts.  However, it would be good to attach a receipt to each line of
the expenses claim before posting the voucher, and ultimately paying it.

How do I do this, I wonder?

Cheers,

Chris

GNUcash version 5.4 Flatpak (Linux Mint 21)
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