Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[NoobAlice]

A little bit of a topic change, but I find setting Edit > Preferences > 
Scheduled Transactions > check box Review Created Transactions
as an overall preference (as opposed to remembering to check the box on 
the popup scheduled transactions window) really simplifies scheduled 
transaction fixing because then I don't have to hunt it down in a 
specific ledger.


I agree on the unsaved transactions issue.

On 2023-05-19 06:23 AM, ed...@billiau.net wrote:

*snip*

Every three months I have a split transaction with 7 splits. I will
edit that sequentially in 6 or 7 registers. I used to try concurrent
editing, but if it ever worked, it doesn't now.
At present it can only be saved from one register, but its not the one
I opened it in first, it's the one from which I saved it as a scheduled
transaction.
Even finding that register to save a complex transaction is difficult
some days.

Just to let you know that what Stan describes is a difficulty in
Gnucash, not just some awkward users with complex use cases, this is
just doing my tax.

Liz
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.


___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[edodd]

On Sun, 7 May 2023 07:18:20 -0700
Stan Brown  wrote:

> On 2023-05-06 22:28, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
> > The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with
> > an open transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a
> > user is forced to look through the open tabs and try to figure out
> > which register holds this transaction. Others have commented on this
> > in the past.  
> Has an enhancement request been submitted about this? It's an ongoing
> annoyance, and I can't understand why GC requires me to guess which of
> half a dozen pen registers contains the incomplete transaction.
> 
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com

Every three months I have a split transaction with 7 splits. I will
edit that sequentially in 6 or 7 registers. I used to try concurrent
editing, but if it ever worked, it doesn't now.
At present it can only be saved from one register, but its not the one
I opened it in first, it's the one from which I saved it as a scheduled
transaction.
Even finding that register to save a complex transaction is difficult
some days.

Just to let you know that what Stan describes is a difficulty in
Gnucash, not just some awkward users with complex use cases, this is
just doing my tax.

Liz
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

An alternative proposal is to create data elements to allow auto-saving of both 
the modified and unmodified transaction of uncommitted changes, so if the file 
is reloaded, the uncommitted state is restored as it was at the time of the 
save.  Then auto save would ensure these uncommitted transactions are saved as 
uncommitted, for future discovery after a file load on a *manual* save or 
graceful interactive exit with save warnings.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

As for missed threads, I've taken to opening the message queue on the mail 
server directly before I reply, just to be sure I'm replying with useful 
information...
⁣
David T.​

On May 11, 2023, 07:20, at 07:20, Adrien Monteleone 
 wrote:
>David,
>
>I didn't notice when I replied, that this thread broke (at least for
>me) 
>and there were more detailed replies.
>
>Now that I see what the OP was encountering, I agree, SQL won't be a 
>solution for anything not committed.
>
>Other than this special case, I'm not sure it would be a good idea to 
>auto-save uncommitted transactions. (especially if they don't balance 
>yet) I'd hazard some folks rely on that current behavior.
>
>I do agree some sort of visual indication as to which open registers 
>have uncommitted transactions would be helpful, as would the warning 
>message being more specific to avoid a guessing game.
>
>And certainly, the OPs original goal might be better implemented within
>
>the GUI so as to avoid the issue entirely, as it seems the cron job is
>a 
>work around. (thus it seems the problem isn't not auto-saving or 
>auto-committing transactions on exit, but rather the lack of ability to
>
>schedule price updates)
>
>Regards,
>Adrien
>
>On 5/10/23 11:02 PM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
>> Adrien,
>> 
>> The issue as stated is specifically the loss of an uncommitted
>transaction, so an SQL back end won't help with that. If, however, that
>open transaction prevents an entire session from being saved, then your
>suggestion merits attention. I personally don't know about that,
>though; the OP didn't mention.
>> 
>> ⁣David T. ​
>
>___
>gnucash-user mailing list
>gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>-
>Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[Adrien Monteleone]

David,

I didn't notice when I replied, that this thread broke (at least for me) 
and there were more detailed replies.


Now that I see what the OP was encountering, I agree, SQL won't be a 
solution for anything not committed.


Other than this special case, I'm not sure it would be a good idea to 
auto-save uncommitted transactions. (especially if they don't balance 
yet) I'd hazard some folks rely on that current behavior.


I do agree some sort of visual indication as to which open registers 
have uncommitted transactions would be helpful, as would the warning 
message being more specific to avoid a guessing game.


And certainly, the OPs original goal might be better implemented within 
the GUI so as to avoid the issue entirely, as it seems the cron job is a 
work around. (thus it seems the problem isn't not auto-saving or 
auto-committing transactions on exit, but rather the lack of ability to 
schedule price updates)


Regards,
Adrien

On 5/10/23 11:02 PM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:

Adrien,

The issue as stated is specifically the loss of an uncommitted transaction, so 
an SQL back end won't help with that. If, however, that open transaction 
prevents an entire session from being saved, then your suggestion merits 
attention. I personally don't know about that, though; the OP didn't mention.

⁣David T. ​


___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Adrien, 

The issue as stated is specifically the loss of an uncommitted transaction, so 
an SQL back end won't help with that. If, however, that open transaction 
prevents an entire session from being saved, then your suggestion merits 
attention. I personally don't know about that, though; the OP didn't mention. 

⁣David T. ​

On May 11, 2023, 6:13 AM, at 6:13 AM, Adrien Monteleone 
 wrote:
>The SQL backends will get you an instant auto-save, but only for 
>committed transactions. (as far as I know)
>
>You still have to hit Enter or Tab-through to finish a transaction, at 
>which point the file is auto-updated. (thus, save-on-commit)
>
>Regards,
>Adrien
>
>On 5/4/23 4:30 PM, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:
>> I often accidentally leave a transaction complete but with the cursor
>of that sheet still on the same line, so despite an aggressive auto
>save setting, such a transaction is not committed to the saved image. 
>Of course, if it is not in valid form, it cannot be committed!  But if
>the host goes down or gnucash terminates for any reason not a stable
>interactive exit, despite the auto save, the entire transaction or any
>change is lost.  I would like an option to auto-commit such
>transactions, if valid, before the timed auto save.
>> 
>> For me, this creates loss of input when I run my nightly cron job for
>quotes, where I kill any running gnucash and remove any lock to allow
>the quote additions.  (A side thought would to have the quote fetch
>built into the interactive gnucash such that it has a way to get quotes
>without being killed.  Maybe a gnucash service daemon that could
>negotiate the updates with any running interactive gnucash or do the
>updates if no interactive gnucash is running?  That in turn suggests a
>gnucash with a service and multiple interactive sessions so changes in
>any interactive session could be notified to other interactive
>sessions, supporting both quotes from a crontab scheduled service
>internal or external, and multiple interactive users to support larger
>enterprises.)
>
>___
>gnucash-user mailing list
>gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>-
>Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[Adrien Monteleone]

The SQL backends will get you an instant auto-save, but only for 
committed transactions. (as far as I know)


You still have to hit Enter or Tab-through to finish a transaction, at 
which point the file is auto-updated. (thus, save-on-commit)


Regards,
Adrien

On 5/4/23 4:30 PM, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:

I often accidentally leave a transaction complete but with the cursor of that 
sheet still on the same line, so despite an aggressive auto save setting, such 
a transaction is not committed to the saved image.  Of course, if it is not in 
valid form, it cannot be committed!  But if the host goes down or gnucash 
terminates for any reason not a stable interactive exit, despite the auto save, 
the entire transaction or any change is lost.  I would like an option to 
auto-commit such transactions, if valid, before the timed auto save.

For me, this creates loss of input when I run my nightly cron job for quotes, 
where I kill any running gnucash and remove any lock to allow the quote 
additions.  (A side thought would to have the quote fetch built into the 
interactive gnucash such that it has a way to get quotes without being killed.  
Maybe a gnucash service daemon that could negotiate the updates with any 
running interactive gnucash or do the updates if no interactive gnucash is 
running?  That in turn suggests a gnucash with a service and multiple 
interactive sessions so changes in any interactive session could be notified to 
other interactive sessions, supporting both quotes from a crontab scheduled 
service internal or external, and multiple interactive users to support larger 
enterprises.)


___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[John Layman]

One of the remarkably slick features of Microsoft Money was that it kept track 
of the last date on which it downloaded a day's adjusted close, and worked 
forward from that to the present whenever there was a gap.

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  On 
Behalf Of David T. via gnucash-user
Sent: Monday, May 8, 2023 3:00 PM
To: David G. Pickett 
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

Yes, one can imagine that. I can imagine that it would be possible to add 
something like that into the get quotes function that already exists, but I'm 
not a programmer, so I accept that if I want to track commodity values in 
GnuCash, I have to click the get quotes button. The get quotes button is as 
close to a listening socket as I'll get. 

I'm curious-- does auto save complete its process if a transaction is open? I'd 
imagine that it doesn't. You might want to check on that. It would be a drag to 
discover after the fact that a series of edits were lost because auto save 
didn't complete-- especially if you're going to keep using an external cron job 
script that relies on an unrelated function (auto save) to preserve your 
financial data. 

⁣David T. ​

On May 8, 2023, 5:55 PM, at 5:55 PM, "David G. Pickett"  
wrote:
>I use auto save, and if the app is running, the cron kills it and 
>removes the lock before running the quote fetch.
>
>One can imagine the app having a listening socket to let you ask it to 
>get quotes from a cron script.  Or having it maintain a schedule where 
>it gets all quotes, like an internal crontab.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: David T. 
>To: David G. Pickett 
>Cc: David G. Pickett via gnucash-user 
>Sent: Sun, May 7, 2023 11:34 pm
>Subject: Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?
>
>Nope and nope. Sorry. 
>
>It seems to me that leaving GnuCash open and running a con job against 
>the open app is a recipe for troubles just like the ones you have 
>encountered. You could tell the script to abort if it found the lock 
>file, but that would require you to close the app every night, which 
>you're not doing now.
>
>David T. On May 7, 2023, at 9:25 PM, "David G. Pickett"
> wrote:
>Any suggestions on a) how a shell script tells that the auto save is 
>incomplete, b) even if it knew, what it could do about it?
> 
> 
>  -Original Message-
> From: David T. 
> To: David G. Pickett 
> Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> Sent: Sun, May 7, 2023 1:28 am
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?
> 
>I agree that it would be nice to have some visual cue that a 
>transaction has been edited but not saved; that would be useful. I'm 
>honestly not sure why that hasn't been implemented.
> 
>The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with an 
>open transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a user is 
>forced to look through the open tabs and try to figure out which 
>register holds this transaction. Others have commented on this in the 
>past.
> 
>If I recall correctly, you were having trouble because you have a cron 
>job set up to retrieve quotes at a specified time each day, and this 
>job causes the file to close dirty if there is an open transaction. The 
>problem in this case, is that this cron job doesn't have necessary 
>fault testing and tolerance. I'd suggest working on ensuring that this 
>cron job was properly set up to handle your specific situation.
> 
>David T.  On May 6, 2023, at 9:02 PM, "David G. Pickett via 
>gnucash-user" < gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>"Don't do that!" does not prevent data loss from human error, which for 
>this app behavior is too easy to create and not realize.
>
> 
> 
>If the commit was automatic every time you modified a transaction when 
>the new state was valid, then I would not leave the tab in an 
>uncommitted state, but that is not how it was devised.  I leave because 
>it looks fine.  There is no indication of an uncommitted transaction I 
>can see.  In terms of human factors, one might go to another tab for 
>information to complete a transaction, so we do not want to prevent the 
>user leaving a tab with an uncommitted, possibly invalid transaction.
>Maybe we should color the tab red while in this state?  Or pop up a 
>dialog if it persists a bit too long, or if auto save fires on its 
>timer?  But the user may have left, trusting in auto save, so I suggest 
>an auto commit if valid on auto save.
> 
>gnucash-user mailing list
>gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: 
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>-
>Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 
>You can do this by using Reply-To-List or

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[Stan Brown]

That seems to cover it. I'm disappointed that the bug was posted six
years ago and still hasn't been addressed. I know that the developers
are far from idle, but to me it just seems so basic that you don't tell
the user "There's a problem, now try to guess where it is."

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

On 2023-05-07 07:43, David Carlson wrote:
> How about
> *Bug 686051*  - Pending
> transaction edits get "lost" (edit
> )
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 9:19 AM Stan Brown  > wrote:
> 
> On 2023-05-06 22:28, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
> > The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with
> > an open transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a
> > user is forced to look through the open tabs and try to figure out
> > which register holds this transaction. Others have commented on this
> > in the past.
> Has an enhancement request been submitted about this? It's an ongoing
> annoyance, and I can't understand why GC requires me to guess which of
> half a dozen pen registers contains the incomplete transaction.
> 
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com 
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> 
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> David Carlson
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Yes, one can imagine that. I can imagine that it would be possible to add 
something like that into the get quotes function that already exists, but I'm 
not a programmer, so I accept that if I want to track commodity values in 
GnuCash, I have to click the get quotes button. The get quotes button is as 
close to a listening socket as I'll get. 

I'm curious-- does auto save complete its process if a transaction is open? I'd 
imagine that it doesn't. You might want to check on that. It would be a drag to 
discover after the fact that a series of edits were lost because auto save 
didn't complete-- especially if you're going to keep using an external cron job 
script that relies on an unrelated function (auto save) to preserve your 
financial data. 

⁣David T. ​

On May 8, 2023, 5:55 PM, at 5:55 PM, "David G. Pickett"  
wrote:
>I use auto save, and if the app is running, the cron kills it and
>removes the lock before running the quote fetch.
>
>One can imagine the app having a listening socket to let you ask it to
>get quotes from a cron script.  Or having it maintain a schedule where
>it gets all quotes, like an internal crontab.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: David T. 
>To: David G. Pickett 
>Cc: David G. Pickett via gnucash-user 
>Sent: Sun, May 7, 2023 11:34 pm
>Subject: Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?
>
>Nope and nope. Sorry. 
>
>It seems to me that leaving GnuCash open and running a con job against
>the open app is a recipe for troubles just like the ones you have
>encountered. You could tell the script to abort if it found the lock
>file, but that would require you to close the app every night, which
>you're not doing now. 
>
>David T. On May 7, 2023, at 9:25 PM, "David G. Pickett"
> wrote:
>Any suggestions on a) how a shell script tells that the auto save is
>incomplete, b) even if it knew, what it could do about it? 
> 
> 
>  -Original Message-
> From: David T. 
> To: David G. Pickett 
> Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> Sent: Sun, May 7, 2023 1:28 am
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?
> 
>I agree that it would be nice to have some visual cue that a
>transaction has been edited but not saved; that would be useful. I'm
>honestly not sure why that hasn't been implemented. 
> 
>The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with an
>open transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a user is
>forced to look through the open tabs and try to figure out which
>register holds this transaction. Others have commented on this in the
>past. 
> 
>If I recall correctly, you were having trouble because you have a cron
>job set up to retrieve quotes at a specified time each day, and this
>job causes the file to close dirty if there is an open transaction. The
>problem in this case, is that this cron job doesn't have necessary
>fault testing and tolerance. I'd suggest working on ensuring that this
>cron job was properly set up to handle your specific situation. 
> 
>David T.  On May 6, 2023, at 9:02 PM, "David G. Pickett via
>gnucash-user" < gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: 
>"Don't do that!" does not prevent data loss from human error, which for
>this app behavior is too easy to create and not realize.
>
> 
> 
>If the commit was automatic every time you modified a transaction when
>the new state was valid, then I would not leave the tab in an
>uncommitted state, but that is not how it was devised.  I leave because
>it looks fine.  There is no indication of an uncommitted transaction I
>can see.  In terms of human factors, one might go to another tab for
>information to complete a transaction, so we do not want to prevent the
>user leaving a tab with an uncommitted, possibly invalid transaction. 
>Maybe we should color the tab red while in this state?  Or pop up a
>dialog if it persists a bit too long, or if auto save fires on its
>timer?  But the user may have left, trusting in auto save, so I suggest
>an auto commit if valid on auto save. 
> 
>gnucash-user mailing list 
>gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
>To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: 
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user 
>- 
>Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 
>You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.  
> 
> 
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

I use auto save, and if the app is running, the cron kills it and removes the 
lock before running the quote fetch.

One can imagine the app having a listening socket to let you ask it to get 
quotes from a cron script.  Or having it maintain a schedule where it gets all 
quotes, like an internal crontab.


-Original Message-
From: David T. 
To: David G. Pickett 
Cc: David G. Pickett via gnucash-user 
Sent: Sun, May 7, 2023 11:34 pm
Subject: Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

Nope and nope. Sorry. 

It seems to me that leaving GnuCash open and running a con job against the open 
app is a recipe for troubles just like the ones you have encountered. You could 
tell the script to abort if it found the lock file, but that would require you 
to close the app every night, which you're not doing now. 

David T. On May 7, 2023, at 9:25 PM, "David G. Pickett"  
wrote:
 Any suggestions on a) how a shell script tells that the auto save is 
incomplete, b) even if it knew, what it could do about it? 
 
 
  -Original Message-
 From: David T. 
 To: David G. Pickett 
 Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
 Sent: Sun, May 7, 2023 1:28 am
 Subject: Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?
 
I agree that it would be nice to have some visual cue that a transaction 
has been edited but not saved; that would be useful. I'm honestly not sure why 
that hasn't been implemented. 
 
  The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with an open 
transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a user is forced to 
look through the open tabs and try to figure out which register holds this 
transaction. Others have commented on this in the past. 
 
  If I recall correctly, you were having trouble because you have a cron job 
set up to retrieve quotes at a specified time each day, and this job causes the 
file to close dirty if there is an open transaction. The problem in this case, 
is that this cron job doesn't have necessary fault testing and tolerance. I'd 
suggest working on ensuring that this cron job was properly set up to handle 
your specific situation. 
 
  David T.  On May 6, 2023, at 9:02 PM, "David G. Pickett via gnucash-user" < 
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: 
 "Don't do that!" does not prevent data loss from human error, which for this 
app behavior is too easy to create and not realize.

 
 
If the commit was automatic every time you modified a transaction when the new 
state was valid, then I would not leave the tab in an uncommitted state, but 
that is not how it was devised.  I leave because it looks fine.  There is no 
indication of an uncommitted transaction I can see.  In terms of human factors, 
one might go to another tab for information to complete a transaction, so we do 
not want to prevent the user leaving a tab with an uncommitted, possibly 
invalid transaction.  Maybe we should color the tab red while in this state?  
Or pop up a dialog if it persists a bit too long, or if auto save fires on its 
timer?  But the user may have left, trusting in auto save, so I suggest an auto 
commit if valid on auto save. 
 
gnucash-user mailing list 
gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: 
 https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user 
- 
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.  
 
 
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Nope and nope. Sorry. 

It seems to me that leaving GnuCash open and running a con job against the open 
app is a recipe for troubles just like the ones you have encountered. You could 
tell the script to abort if it found the lock file, but that would require you 
to close the app every night, which you're not doing now. 

⁣David T. ​

On May 7, 2023, 9:25 PM, at 9:25 PM, "David G. Pickett"  
wrote:
>Any suggestions on a) how a shell script tells that the auto save is
>incomplete, b) even if it knew, what it could do about it?
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: David T. 
>To: David G. Pickett 
>Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>Sent: Sun, May 7, 2023 1:28 am
>Subject: Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?
>
>I agree that it would be nice to have some visual cue that a
>transaction has been edited but not saved; that would be useful. I'm
>honestly not sure why that hasn't been implemented. 
>
>The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with an
>open transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a user is
>forced to look through the open tabs and try to figure out which
>register holds this transaction. Others have commented on this in the
>past. 
>
>If I recall correctly, you were having trouble because you have a cron
>job set up to retrieve quotes at a specified time each day, and this
>job causes the file to close dirty if there is an open transaction. The
>problem in this case, is that this cron job doesn't have necessary
>fault testing and tolerance. I'd suggest working on ensuring that this
>cron job was properly set up to handle your specific situation. 
>
>David T. On May 6, 2023, at 9:02 PM, "David G. Pickett via
>gnucash-user"  wrote:
>"Don't do that!" does not prevent data loss from human error, which for
>this app behavior is too easy to create and not realize.
>
>
>If the commit was automatic every time you modified a transaction when
>the new state was valid, then I would not leave the tab in an
>uncommitted state, but that is not how it was devised.  I leave because
>it looks fine.  There is no indication of an uncommitted transaction I
>can see.  In terms of human factors, one might go to another tab for
>information to complete a transaction, so we do not want to prevent the
>user leaving a tab with an uncommitted, possibly invalid transaction. 
>Maybe we should color the tab red while in this state?  Or pop up a
>dialog if it persists a bit too long, or if auto save fires on its
>timer?  But the user may have left, trusting in auto save, so I suggest
>an auto commit if valid on auto save.
>
>gnucash-user mailing list
>gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>-
>Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

Any suggestions on a) how a shell script tells that the auto save is 
incomplete, b) even if it knew, what it could do about it?


-Original Message-
From: David T. 
To: David G. Pickett 
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Sent: Sun, May 7, 2023 1:28 am
Subject: Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

I agree that it would be nice to have some visual cue that a transaction has 
been edited but not saved; that would be useful. I'm honestly not sure why that 
hasn't been implemented. 

The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with an open 
transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a user is forced to 
look through the open tabs and try to figure out which register holds this 
transaction. Others have commented on this in the past. 

If I recall correctly, you were having trouble because you have a cron job set 
up to retrieve quotes at a specified time each day, and this job causes the 
file to close dirty if there is an open transaction. The problem in this case, 
is that this cron job doesn't have necessary fault testing and tolerance. I'd 
suggest working on ensuring that this cron job was properly set up to handle 
your specific situation. 

David T. On May 6, 2023, at 9:02 PM, "David G. Pickett via gnucash-user" 
 wrote:
"Don't do that!" does not prevent data loss from human error, which for this 
app behavior is too easy to create and not realize.


If the commit was automatic every time you modified a transaction when the new 
state was valid, then I would not leave the tab in an uncommitted state, but 
that is not how it was devised.  I leave because it looks fine.  There is no 
indication of an uncommitted transaction I can see.  In terms of human factors, 
one might go to another tab for information to complete a transaction, so we do 
not want to prevent the user leaving a tab with an uncommitted, possibly 
invalid transaction.  Maybe we should color the tab red while in this state?  
Or pop up a dialog if it persists a bit too long, or if auto save fires on its 
timer?  But the user may have left, trusting in auto save, so I suggest an auto 
commit if valid on auto save.

gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David Carlson]

How about
*Bug 686051*  - Pending
transaction edits get "lost" (edit
)


On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 9:19 AM Stan Brown 
wrote:

> On 2023-05-06 22:28, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
> > The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with
> > an open transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a
> > user is forced to look through the open tabs and try to figure out
> > which register holds this transaction. Others have commented on this
> > in the past.
> Has an enhancement request been submitted about this? It's an ongoing
> annoyance, and I can't understand why GC requires me to guess which of
> half a dozen pen registers contains the incomplete transaction.
>
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>


-- 
David Carlson
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[Stan Brown]

On 2023-05-06 22:28, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
> The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with
> an open transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a
> user is forced to look through the open tabs and try to figure out
> which register holds this transaction. Others have commented on this
> in the past.
Has an enhancement request been submitted about this? It's an ongoing
annoyance, and I can't understand why GC requires me to guess which of
half a dozen pen registers contains the incomplete transaction.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

I agree that it would be nice to have some visual cue that a transaction has 
been edited but not saved; that would be useful. I'm honestly not sure why that 
hasn't been implemented. 

The app does throw a dialog onscreen when a user tries to save with an open 
transaction. Unfortunately, the message is generic, and a user is forced to 
look through the open tabs and try to figure out which register holds this 
transaction. Others have commented on this in the past. 

If I recall correctly, you were having trouble because you have a cron job set 
up to retrieve quotes at a specified time each day, and this job causes the 
file to close dirty if there is an open transaction. The problem in this case, 
is that this cron job doesn't have necessary fault testing and tolerance. I'd 
suggest working on ensuring that this cron job was properly set up to handle 
your specific situation. 

⁣David T. ​

On May 6, 2023, 9:02 PM, at 9:02 PM, "David G. Pickett via gnucash-user" 
 wrote:
>"Don't do that!" does not prevent data loss from human error, which for
>this app behavior is too easy to create and not realize.
>
>If the commit was automatic every time you modified a transaction when
>the new state was valid, then I would not leave the tab in an
>uncommitted state, but that is not how it was devised.  I leave because
>it looks fine.  There is no indication of an uncommitted transaction I
>can see.  In terms of human factors, one might go to another tab for
>information to complete a transaction, so we do not want to prevent the
>user leaving a tab with an uncommitted, possibly invalid transaction. 
>Maybe we should color the tab red while in this state?  Or pop up a
>dialog if it persists a bit too long, or if auto save fires on its
>timer?  But the user may have left, trusting in auto save, so I suggest
>an auto commit if valid on auto save.
>___
>gnucash-user mailing list
>gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>-
>Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

"Don't do that!" does not prevent data loss from human error, which for this 
app behavior is too easy to create and not realize.

If the commit was automatic every time you modified a transaction when the new 
state was valid, then I would not leave the tab in an uncommitted state, but 
that is not how it was devised.  I leave because it looks fine.  There is no 
indication of an uncommitted transaction I can see.  In terms of human factors, 
one might go to another tab for information to complete a transaction, so we do 
not want to prevent the user leaving a tab with an uncommitted, possibly 
invalid transaction.  Maybe we should color the tab red while in this state?  
Or pop up a dialog if it persists a bit too long, or if auto save fires on its 
timer?  But the user may have left, trusting in auto save, so I suggest an auto 
commit if valid on auto save.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David Carlson]

David,

Perhaps you could call it a work-around, but years ago I trained myself to
never leave my computer without looking at the titlebar for that teltale
asterisk before the filename, and saving the file if it is there.  Then, if
GnuCash complains about an unsaved transaction, I get a chance to fix it.

On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 4:31 PM David G. Pickett via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> I often accidentally leave a transaction complete but with the cursor of
> that sheet still on the same line, so despite an aggressive auto save
> setting, such a transaction is not committed to the saved image.  Of
> course, if it is not in valid form, it cannot be committed!  But if the
> host goes down or gnucash terminates for any reason not a stable
> interactive exit, despite the auto save, the entire transaction or any
> change is lost.  I would like an option to auto-commit such transactions,
> if valid, before the timed auto save.
>
> For me, this creates loss of input when I run my nightly cron job for
> quotes, where I kill any running gnucash and remove any lock to allow the
> quote additions.  (A side thought would to have the quote fetch built into
> the interactive gnucash such that it has a way to get quotes without being
> killed.  Maybe a gnucash service daemon that could negotiate the updates
> with any running interactive gnucash or do the updates if no interactive
> gnucash is running?  That in turn suggests a gnucash with a service and
> multiple interactive sessions so changes in any interactive session could
> be notified to other interactive sessions, supporting both quotes from a
> crontab scheduled service internal or external, and multiple interactive
> users to support larger enterprises.)
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>


-- 
David Carlson
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

[GNC] Auto commit with auto save?

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

I often accidentally leave a transaction complete but with the cursor of that 
sheet still on the same line, so despite an aggressive auto save setting, such 
a transaction is not committed to the saved image.  Of course, if it is not in 
valid form, it cannot be committed!  But if the host goes down or gnucash 
terminates for any reason not a stable interactive exit, despite the auto save, 
the entire transaction or any change is lost.  I would like an option to 
auto-commit such transactions, if valid, before the timed auto save.

For me, this creates loss of input when I run my nightly cron job for quotes, 
where I kill any running gnucash and remove any lock to allow the quote 
additions.  (A side thought would to have the quote fetch built into the 
interactive gnucash such that it has a way to get quotes without being killed.  
Maybe a gnucash service daemon that could negotiate the updates with any 
running interactive gnucash or do the updates if no interactive gnucash is 
running?  That in turn suggests a gnucash with a service and multiple 
interactive sessions so changes in any interactive session could be notified to 
other interactive sessions, supporting both quotes from a crontab scheduled 
service internal or external, and multiple interactive users to support larger 
enterprises.)
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.