Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Geert Janssens]

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2019 00:18:47 CET schreef Mike Alexander:
> > On Feb 4, 2019, at 4:32 AM, Geert Janssens 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Back to the original question: I think gnucash will try its best to keep
> > you from adding a reverse payment to an already paid invoice. So what you
> > did via manual lot manipulation is probably the closest you can get to
> > that outcome.
> > 
> > There is however yet another way to see this: if the check bounced it
> > didn't really pay for the invoice to start with.
> > 
> > So you could decouple the payment from the invoice (the easiest way is by
> > unposting and reposting the invoice). Then presuming you want to keep
> > record of the fact that you received a check, you can keep the payment
> > around and directly credit it via the Process Payment dialog to indicate
> > it bounced. That is, you can select the payment only in that dialog and
> > have gnucash "pay" for that payment, which is to say gnucash would refund
> > that payment.
> 
> Thanks for all the help, I learned a number of things.  What I ended up
> doing is use the “Add Reversing Transaction” command on the payment. 
> Somewhat to my surprise this did pretty much what I wanted to do.  It added
> a “reversed by” slot to the payment transaction and decoupled it from the
> invoice.  This left the invoice unpaid.
Interesting. I didn't know "Add Reversing Transaction" had any effect on the 
business properties of a transaction.

Geert


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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Mike Alexander]

> On Feb 4, 2019, at 4:32 AM, Geert Janssens  wrote:
> 
> Back to the original question: I think gnucash will try its best to keep you 
> from adding a reverse payment to an already paid invoice. So what you did via 
> manual lot manipulation is probably the closest you can get to that outcome.
> 
> There is however yet another way to see this: if the check bounced it didn't 
> really pay for the invoice to start with.
> 
> So you could decouple the payment from the invoice (the easiest way is by 
> unposting and reposting the invoice). Then presuming you want to keep record 
> of the fact that you received a check, you can keep the payment around and 
> directly credit it via the Process Payment dialog to indicate it bounced. 
> That 
> is, you can select the payment only in that dialog and have gnucash "pay" for 
> that payment, which is to say gnucash would refund that payment.

Thanks for all the help, I learned a number of things.  What I ended up doing 
is use the “Add Reversing Transaction” command on the payment.  Somewhat to my 
surprise this did pretty much what I wanted to do.  It added a “reversed by” 
slot to the payment transaction and decoupled it from the invoice.  This left 
the invoice unpaid.  I created a new invoice for the late fee and used the 
customer’s replacement check to pay both the original invoice and this new one. 
 This seems to make the books reflect reality fairly well.  My main problem was 
that I had forgotten about the "Add Reversing Transaction” command so didn’t 
think to try it.

   Mike
 
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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Geert Janssens]

Op zaterdag 2 februari 2019 09:37:02 CET schreef Wm via gnucash-user:
> On 02/02/2019 04:24, Mike Alexander wrote:
> > A few weeks ago I received a check in payment for an invoice I had sent to
> > a customer.  I recorded the payment and deposited the check.  A couple of
> > weeks later I got notice from my bank that the check had bounced.  My
> > question is how to record this.  I want to “unpay” the invoice and charge
> > the amount back to the customer, but I can’t find a good way to do this.
> > 
> > I tried entering a transaction to debit Accounts Receivable and credit the
> > bank account after which I manually added the split in A/R to the lot for
> > that invoice.
> my opinion is you are overthinking this
> 
>  >This sort of worked, but the invoice is still marked paid in the
> 
> customer report.  I can, however, select it in the “Process Payment”
> dialog to pay it again and it shows up as unpaid in the receivables
> aging report.  Can I do better than this?
> 
> The accounting is ordinary, the customer owes you the money from the
> original date.
> 
> The invoice, payment, bounce sequence is a record of events.  I think
> this should show in your accounts, other people think it shouldn't,
> dunno why, it is a reflection of the person that didn't pay, not you.
> 
> Ordinary solution?  Make a new invoice and let the person know you
> expect it to be paid.

In double accounting that would create a mismatch between the document flow 
and the money flow:
- you'd have two documents claiming you are to receive money
- you have entered one payment and one refund
Summing all of those together it would seem you should still receive two 
payments.

You could balance this by writing an internal credit note to cater for the 
bounced check and then write a new invoice (which you could send to the 
customer to inform them of a bounced check).

Back to the original question: I think gnucash will try its best to keep you 
from adding a reverse payment to an already paid invoice. So what you did via 
manual lot manipulation is probably the closest you can get to that outcome.

There is however yet another way to see this: if the check bounced it didn't 
really pay for the invoice to start with.

So you could decouple the payment from the invoice (the easiest way is by 
unposting and reposting the invoice). Then presuming you want to keep record 
of the fact that you received a check, you can keep the payment around and 
directly credit it via the Process Payment dialog to indicate it bounced. That 
is, you can select the payment only in that dialog and have gnucash "pay" for 
that payment, which is to say gnucash would refund that payment.

Geert


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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Wm via gnucash-user]

On 02/02/2019 04:24, Mike Alexander wrote:

A few weeks ago I received a check in payment for an invoice I had sent to a 
customer.  I recorded the payment and deposited the check.  A couple of weeks 
later I got notice from my bank that the check had bounced.  My question is how 
to record this.  I want to “unpay” the invoice and charge the amount back to 
the customer, but I can’t find a good way to do this.

I tried entering a transaction to debit Accounts Receivable and credit the bank 
account after which I manually added the split in A/R to the lot for that 
invoice.


my opinion is you are overthinking this

>This sort of worked, but the invoice is still marked paid in the 
customer report.  I can, however, select it in the “Process Payment” 
dialog to pay it again and it shows up as unpaid in the receivables 
aging report.  Can I do better than this?


The accounting is ordinary, the customer owes you the money from the 
original date.


The invoice, payment, bounce sequence is a record of events.  I think 
this should show in your accounts, other people think it shouldn't, 
dunno why, it is a reflection of the person that didn't pay, not you.


Ordinary solution?  Make a new invoice and let the person know you 
expect it to be paid.


--
Wm

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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Deva -]

Mike,

In such cases, you could try creating a credit note - this will reverse both 
the invoice and the bank deposit and you have the audit trail.

Then create a new invoice (but this time, wait until the cheque gets credited 
to your bank). You can always pre-date invoices after the cheque has cleared.

FYI - credit note is on the same window as invoice creation - whenever you 
click on new invoice, the window that pops up has an option for you to specify 
whether it’s a new invoice or a new credit note (it defaults to new invoice).

Cheers.

On 02-Feb-2019, at 5:03 PM, 
mailto:gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org>> 
mailto:gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org>> 
wrote:

Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 23:24:22 -0500
From: Mike Alexander mailto:m...@umich.edu>>
To: gnucash-user mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
Subject: [GNC] How to handle bounced check
Message-ID: 
<12325d4d-60c4-46fd-8013-c93cb9442...@umich.edu<mailto:12325d4d-60c4-46fd-8013-c93cb9442...@umich.edu>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

A few weeks ago I received a check in payment for an invoice I had sent to a 
customer.  I recorded the payment and deposited the check.  A couple of weeks 
later I got notice from my bank that the check had bounced.  My question is how 
to record this.  I want to ?unpay? the invoice and charge the amount back to 
the customer, but I can?t find a good way to do this.

I tried entering a transaction to debit Accounts Receivable and credit the bank 
account after which I manually added the split in A/R to the lot for that 
invoice.  This sort of worked, but the invoice is still marked paid in the 
customer report.  I can, however, select it in the ?Process Payment? dialog to 
pay it again and it shows up as unpaid in the receivables aging report.  Can I 
do better than this?

  Mike

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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Jeff Abrahamson]

Please don't delete the transaction unless you really don't like good
accounting practices.  Always leave a trace of what you do and why.

Just select the original cheque payment, choose "Add reversing
transaction
",
modify the date and give it a slightly different number (I prepend "X"
to transaction numbers that are cancellations, any convention will do),
and add a description like "cheque returned for insufficient funds".

Separately, add an entry for the bank fee.  Refer to the transaction
number of the returned cheque (the X... in my world).

Jeff Abrahamson
http://p27.eu/jeff/
http://transport-nantes.com/


On 02/02/2019 06:06, David Cousens wrote:
> Mike
>
> Simnply delete the payment transaction. This will leave the invoice open and
> still awaiting payment.
>
> The other approach you could take if you want to maintain a full accounting
> trail would to be to create a reversing transaction for the payment, duly
> annotated. This will leave the original invoice in place but the reversing
> trannsaction won't be tied specifically to the invoice in the way the
> original payment was. You could then reissue a new invoice, adding the
> dishonour fee and any interest charges you specified in your original
> invoice terms and conditions.
>
> David Cousens
>
>
>
> -
> David Cousens
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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-- 

Jeff Abrahamson
+33 6 24 40 01 57
+44 7920 594 255

http://p27.eu/jeff/
http://transport-nantes.com/

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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[David Cousens]

Mike

Simnply delete the payment transaction. This will leave the invoice open and
still awaiting payment.

The other approach you could take if you want to maintain a full accounting
trail would to be to create a reversing transaction for the payment, duly
annotated. This will leave the original invoice in place but the reversing
trannsaction won't be tied specifically to the invoice in the way the
original payment was. You could then reissue a new invoice, adding the
dishonour fee and any interest charges you specified in your original
invoice terms and conditions.

David Cousens



-
David Cousens
--
Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Mike Alexander]

I’ve deleted payments before too when they were recorded incorrectly.  This 
isn’t quite the same thing.  I need to keep both the payment and the charge 
back.  Otherwise I can’t accurately reconcile my bank account.  Both 
transactions will appear in the statement (perhaps not even on the same 
statement) and both need to be reconciled.  I want to keep the deposit and 
record the charge back.

   Mike

> On Feb 1, 2019, at 11:45 PM, elvis  > wrote:
> 
> I think from memory when I had allocated payments to the wrong invoice, I 
> just deleted the payment split in the bank register - which also deleted the 
> payment in invoices
> 
> Everything went back to as it was before the payment was made, which seems to 
> be what you want.
> 


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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Waitman Gobble via gnucash-user]

I think its like a bank fee, the bank took the money out. Not the customer. 
However you should re-invoice the customer for the amount due, but as a service 
charge and not for the original item sold. The downside would be your 
item/service sales would be overstated if the customer never settles up.

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

 Original Message 
On Feb 2, 2019, 12:38 AM, Christopher Lam wrote:

> I think this is difficult. Creating and posting invoice will create an open
> lot, and paying the invoice closes the lot; I'm not sure there is mechanism
> to reopen the lot. I think it would be useful to document the exact steps
> to pay & unpay in bugzilla and further internal discussion takes place
> there?
>
> On Sat., 2 Feb. 2019, 12:26 Mike Alexander 
>> A few weeks ago I received a check in payment for an invoice I had sent to
>> a customer. I recorded the payment and deposited the check. A couple of
>> weeks later I got notice from my bank that the check had bounced. My
>> question is how to record this. I want to “unpay” the invoice and charge
>> the amount back to the customer, but I can’t find a good way to do this.
>>
>> I tried entering a transaction to debit Accounts Receivable and credit the
>> bank account after which I manually added the split in A/R to the lot for
>> that invoice. This sort of worked, but the invoice is still marked paid in
>> the customer report. I can, however, select it in the “Process Payment”
>> dialog to pay it again and it shows up as unpaid in the receivables aging
>> report. Can I do better than this?
>>
>> Mike
>>
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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[elvis]

I think from memory when I had allocated payments to the wrong invoice, 
I just deleted the payment split in the bank register - which also 
deleted the payment in invoices


Everything went back to as it was before the payment was made, which 
seems to be what you want.


On 2/2/19 2:24 pm, Mike Alexander wrote:

A few weeks ago I received a check in payment for an invoice I had sent to a 
customer.  I recorded the payment and deposited the check.  A couple of weeks 
later I got notice from my bank that the check had bounced.  My question is how 
to record this.  I want to “unpay” the invoice and charge the amount back to 
the customer, but I can’t find a good way to do this.

I tried entering a transaction to debit Accounts Receivable and credit the bank 
account after which I manually added the split in A/R to the lot for that 
invoice.  This sort of worked, but the invoice is still marked paid in the 
customer report.  I can, however, select it in the “Process Payment” dialog to 
pay it again and it shows up as unpaid in the receivables aging report.  Can I 
do better than this?

Mike

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Re: [GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Christopher Lam]

I think this is difficult. Creating and posting invoice will create an open
lot, and paying the invoice closes the lot; I'm not sure there is mechanism
to reopen the lot. I think it would be useful to document the exact steps
to pay & unpay in bugzilla and further internal discussion takes place
there?

On Sat., 2 Feb. 2019, 12:26 Mike Alexander  A few weeks ago I received a check in payment for an invoice I had sent to
> a customer.  I recorded the payment and deposited the check.  A couple of
> weeks later I got notice from my bank that the check had bounced.  My
> question is how to record this.  I want to “unpay” the invoice and charge
> the amount back to the customer, but I can’t find a good way to do this.
>
> I tried entering a transaction to debit Accounts Receivable and credit the
> bank account after which I manually added the split in A/R to the lot for
> that invoice.  This sort of worked, but the invoice is still marked paid in
> the customer report.  I can, however, select it in the “Process Payment”
> dialog to pay it again and it shows up as unpaid in the receivables aging
> report.  Can I do better than this?
>
>Mike
>
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[GNC] How to handle bounced check

[Mike Alexander]

A few weeks ago I received a check in payment for an invoice I had sent to a 
customer.  I recorded the payment and deposited the check.  A couple of weeks 
later I got notice from my bank that the check had bounced.  My question is how 
to record this.  I want to “unpay” the invoice and charge the amount back to 
the customer, but I can’t find a good way to do this.

I tried entering a transaction to debit Accounts Receivable and credit the bank 
account after which I manually added the split in A/R to the lot for that 
invoice.  This sort of worked, but the invoice is still marked paid in the 
customer report.  I can, however, select it in the “Process Payment” dialog to 
pay it again and it shows up as unpaid in the receivables aging report.  Can I 
do better than this?

   Mike

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