Re: [GNC] Huge number of missing transactions
I very much appreciate the comments but to confirm, this definitely was not a simultaneous user issue. There are just two of us, the lock message is pretty clear and because of our schedules, there is also rare overlap for when we might both even need to access the files. That said, I still hope and presume it was somehow operator error in some way though beyond the already discussed idea of accessing the same data file repeatedly from very different versions, I cannot begin to guess how it would even be possible to delete such a number of unrelated transactions. As for recovery, what I did was indeed go back just a few days, basically a day before the data loss. The amount of work lost was minimal, especially as I was able to export most of the transactions that had been entered after the data loss and then import them into the older file. Really, recovery and getting back to ground zero was not a big deal. Thanks! === On 2/5/2023 3:33 PM, Phyllis Bruce wrote: Has anyone suggested that you look back at older log files and recover from one that is more complete? What's gone today may not have been gone last month. Just saying On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 9:42 AM Michael or Penny Novack < stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: On 2/5/2023 4:26 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote: I'll briefly chime in here to suggest that network issues and potential simultaneous access are more likely culprits for your data corruption and loss. I will second that. Gnucash does NOT support multiple simultaneous users. It does support multiple sequential users but if used that way the message "could not obtain lock" has to be treated very seriously. A single user can override this and proceed anyway, but if there is ANY chance a different user is accessing the data cannot do that. For a program to support multiple simultaneous users it must be running UNDER the control of a DBM (database manager) program. In which case the simultaneous users might not even be using the same program to access the database (as long as all such programs are running under the control of the DBM). Back in my working days maintained apps running under DB2 (a DBM for mainframe SQL). So in a case like this, multiple users and the data on a network drive, that is overwhelmingly likely the problem. Unless you can definitely rule out simultaneous access issues, look no farther. No point in trying to analyze the details of what happened to the data because the consequences of simultaneous access are unpredictable. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Huge number of missing transactions
Has anyone suggested that you look back at older log files and recover from one that is more complete? What's gone today may not have been gone last month. Just saying On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 9:42 AM Michael or Penny Novack < stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: > On 2/5/2023 4:26 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote: > > I'll briefly chime in here to suggest that network issues and potential > simultaneous access are more likely culprits for your data corruption and > loss. > > > I will second that. Gnucash does NOT support multiple simultaneous > users. It does support multiple sequential users but if used that way > the message "could not obtain lock" has to be treated very seriously. A > single user can override this and proceed anyway, but if there is ANY > chance a different user is accessing the data cannot do that. > > For a program to support multiple simultaneous users it must be running > UNDER the control of a DBM (database manager) program. In which case the > simultaneous users might not even be using the same program to access > the database (as long as all such programs are running under the control > of the DBM). Back in my working days maintained apps running under DB2 > (a DBM for mainframe SQL). > > So in a case like this, multiple users and the data on a network drive, > that is overwhelmingly likely the problem. Unless you can definitely > rule out simultaneous access issues, look no farther. No point in trying > to analyze the details of what happened to the data because the > consequences of simultaneous access are unpredictable. > > > Michael D Novack > > > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Huge number of missing transactions
On 2/5/2023 4:26 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote: I'll briefly chime in here to suggest that network issues and potential simultaneous access are more likely culprits for your data corruption and loss. I will second that. Gnucash does NOT support multiple simultaneous users. It does support multiple sequential users but if used that way the message "could not obtain lock" has to be treated very seriously. A single user can override this and proceed anyway, but if there is ANY chance a different user is accessing the data cannot do that. For a program to support multiple simultaneous users it must be running UNDER the control of a DBM (database manager) program. In which case the simultaneous users might not even be using the same program to access the database (as long as all such programs are running under the control of the DBM). Back in my working days maintained apps running under DB2 (a DBM for mainframe SQL). So in a case like this, multiple users and the data on a network drive, that is overwhelmingly likely the problem. Unless you can definitely rule out simultaneous access issues, look no farther. No point in trying to analyze the details of what happened to the data because the consequences of simultaneous access are unpredictable. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Huge number of missing transactions
I'll briefly chime in here to suggest that network issues and potential simultaneous access are more likely culprits for your data corruption and loss. A search for compatibility issues between GnuCash versions 3.6 and 4.11 did not yield any specific changes that would result in the loss of swathes of transactions from one version to the other, although access to the same file from different major versions isn't really a great idea regardless. In all my years of using GnuCash (18 and counting), I haven't heard of any documented examples of transaction loss that didn't ultimately have some other explanation (hardware failure, user error, unsupported uses, etc.). The only remotely-related problem I've personally encountered over the years was that at one time (around version 3.1 or so), one of my saved reports kept causing the saved reports file to truncate arbitrarily, leaving me without many saved reports. I ended up creating my saved reports from scratch, which eliminated the problem. But again, that wasn't accounting data; it was the supporting reports file. David T. On Feb 5, 2023, 2:44 AM, at 2:44 AM, Daine Pearson via gnucash-user wrote: >Sadly, no.. those help docs are pretty basic - I have looked at most of > >what can be found in the various docs and generally searching. >I'll probably need to go to the code repository and look for comments >or >something along those lines. > >Still would be good to at least confirm that our actions of accessing >the data file with two app versions was the issue. >It was a pretty devastating number of transactions. > >Thanks! > >On 2/3/2023 9:11 PM, David H wrote: >> >https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_are_all_these_.gnucash_and_.log_files_filling_up_my_directory.3F >> https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/basics-backup1.html >> >> Might give you an explanation of the log files... >> >> Cheers David H. >> >> On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 at 10:01, Daine Pearson via gnucash-user >> wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I do see a few messages spread over the years about similar >issues >> but >> most have gone unanswered so I thought I'd create a new one. >> >> My partner and I have been jointly using GNUcash for a few years. >The >> XML data files reside on a shared network drive. >> I recently installed a new Win 10 computer and installed the >> latest (at >> the time) 4.11. >> I did not think about the fact that her system was still running >> 3.6 - >> Probably the culprit... >> Everything seems to have been going fine but yesterday she >noticed >> all >> the payments into a credit card account were gone, leaving quite >a >> large >> negative balance. I looked further and discovered this was true >> for many >> accounts but I do not believe any accounts were missing or >> completely empty. >> I went into the shared directory and could easily see by the file >> size >> that a large data reduction recently occurred as the size >suddenly >> drops >> from ~900KB to ~600KB. >> There is also a 17MB (136325 lines) log file in that same time >period. >> Not so much had happened in the few days after that file size >drop >> so I >> exported some new transactions that had been manually entered in >the >> (corrupted) file and saved one of the earlier files as the new >> data file. >> I updated both machines to the latest stable 4.13 build, imported >> those >> new transactions and just for kicks, ran the repair function >which >> did >> not throw any messages so presumably nothing was fixed. >> Things seem to be fine but it occurred to me that it would be >> useful if >> I understood better what the log files actually might reveal and >> if they >> also show actions taken by the program? >> It seems pretty clear that each new transaction generates a log >entry >> but I'm unsure how deletions, moved items, etc., are marked in >the >> logs. >> I'm guessing the letters in the 'mod' column between Start & End >mean >> something but not sure what. >> >> I presume and hope that something about managing and saving the >same >> data file under both versions is what caused the mishap but it >> would be >> good to understand the situation better so all thoughts welcome. >> >> And presuming sharing files between different program version is >a >> danger (which it likely is), I guess it would be helpful if >> opening an >> account file would trigger a cancel message if it was last saved >by a >> different version, particularly a newer version. >> >> Thanks... DP >> ___ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> - >> Please
Re: [GNC] Huge number of missing transactions
Sadly, no.. those help docs are pretty basic - I have looked at most of what can be found in the various docs and generally searching. I'll probably need to go to the code repository and look for comments or something along those lines. Still would be good to at least confirm that our actions of accessing the data file with two app versions was the issue. It was a pretty devastating number of transactions. Thanks! On 2/3/2023 9:11 PM, David H wrote: https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_are_all_these_.gnucash_and_.log_files_filling_up_my_directory.3F https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/basics-backup1.html Might give you an explanation of the log files... Cheers David H. On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 at 10:01, Daine Pearson via gnucash-user wrote: Hi all, I do see a few messages spread over the years about similar issues but most have gone unanswered so I thought I'd create a new one. My partner and I have been jointly using GNUcash for a few years. The XML data files reside on a shared network drive. I recently installed a new Win 10 computer and installed the latest (at the time) 4.11. I did not think about the fact that her system was still running 3.6 - Probably the culprit... Everything seems to have been going fine but yesterday she noticed all the payments into a credit card account were gone, leaving quite a large negative balance. I looked further and discovered this was true for many accounts but I do not believe any accounts were missing or completely empty. I went into the shared directory and could easily see by the file size that a large data reduction recently occurred as the size suddenly drops from ~900KB to ~600KB. There is also a 17MB (136325 lines) log file in that same time period. Not so much had happened in the few days after that file size drop so I exported some new transactions that had been manually entered in the (corrupted) file and saved one of the earlier files as the new data file. I updated both machines to the latest stable 4.13 build, imported those new transactions and just for kicks, ran the repair function which did not throw any messages so presumably nothing was fixed. Things seem to be fine but it occurred to me that it would be useful if I understood better what the log files actually might reveal and if they also show actions taken by the program? It seems pretty clear that each new transaction generates a log entry but I'm unsure how deletions, moved items, etc., are marked in the logs. I'm guessing the letters in the 'mod' column between Start & End mean something but not sure what. I presume and hope that something about managing and saving the same data file under both versions is what caused the mishap but it would be good to understand the situation better so all thoughts welcome. And presuming sharing files between different program version is a danger (which it likely is), I guess it would be helpful if opening an account file would trigger a cancel message if it was last saved by a different version, particularly a newer version. Thanks... DP ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Huge number of missing transactions
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_are_all_these_.gnucash_and_.log_files_filling_up_my_directory.3F https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/basics-backup1.html Might give you an explanation of the log files... Cheers David H. On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 at 10:01, Daine Pearson via gnucash-user < gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I do see a few messages spread over the years about similar issues but > most have gone unanswered so I thought I'd create a new one. > > My partner and I have been jointly using GNUcash for a few years. The > XML data files reside on a shared network drive. > I recently installed a new Win 10 computer and installed the latest (at > the time) 4.11. > I did not think about the fact that her system was still running 3.6 - > Probably the culprit... > Everything seems to have been going fine but yesterday she noticed all > the payments into a credit card account were gone, leaving quite a large > negative balance. I looked further and discovered this was true for many > accounts but I do not believe any accounts were missing or completely > empty. > I went into the shared directory and could easily see by the file size > that a large data reduction recently occurred as the size suddenly drops > from ~900KB to ~600KB. > There is also a 17MB (136325 lines) log file in that same time period. > Not so much had happened in the few days after that file size drop so I > exported some new transactions that had been manually entered in the > (corrupted) file and saved one of the earlier files as the new data file. > I updated both machines to the latest stable 4.13 build, imported those > new transactions and just for kicks, ran the repair function which did > not throw any messages so presumably nothing was fixed. > Things seem to be fine but it occurred to me that it would be useful if > I understood better what the log files actually might reveal and if they > also show actions taken by the program? > It seems pretty clear that each new transaction generates a log entry > but I'm unsure how deletions, moved items, etc., are marked in the logs. > I'm guessing the letters in the 'mod' column between Start & End mean > something but not sure what. > > I presume and hope that something about managing and saving the same > data file under both versions is what caused the mishap but it would be > good to understand the situation better so all thoughts welcome. > > And presuming sharing files between different program version is a > danger (which it likely is), I guess it would be helpful if opening an > account file would trigger a cancel message if it was last saved by a > different version, particularly a newer version. > > Thanks... DP > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Huge number of missing transactions
Hi all, I do see a few messages spread over the years about similar issues but most have gone unanswered so I thought I'd create a new one. My partner and I have been jointly using GNUcash for a few years. The XML data files reside on a shared network drive. I recently installed a new Win 10 computer and installed the latest (at the time) 4.11. I did not think about the fact that her system was still running 3.6 - Probably the culprit... Everything seems to have been going fine but yesterday she noticed all the payments into a credit card account were gone, leaving quite a large negative balance. I looked further and discovered this was true for many accounts but I do not believe any accounts were missing or completely empty. I went into the shared directory and could easily see by the file size that a large data reduction recently occurred as the size suddenly drops from ~900KB to ~600KB. There is also a 17MB (136325 lines) log file in that same time period. Not so much had happened in the few days after that file size drop so I exported some new transactions that had been manually entered in the (corrupted) file and saved one of the earlier files as the new data file. I updated both machines to the latest stable 4.13 build, imported those new transactions and just for kicks, ran the repair function which did not throw any messages so presumably nothing was fixed. Things seem to be fine but it occurred to me that it would be useful if I understood better what the log files actually might reveal and if they also show actions taken by the program? It seems pretty clear that each new transaction generates a log entry but I'm unsure how deletions, moved items, etc., are marked in the logs. I'm guessing the letters in the 'mod' column between Start & End mean something but not sure what. I presume and hope that something about managing and saving the same data file under both versions is what caused the mishap but it would be good to understand the situation better so all thoughts welcome. And presuming sharing files between different program version is a danger (which it likely is), I guess it would be helpful if opening an account file would trigger a cancel message if it was last saved by a different version, particularly a newer version. Thanks... DP ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
