Re: Reconciling an account

[Adrien Monteleone]

> On Jun 16, 2017, at 11:42 AM, David Carlson  
> wrote:
> 
> When you have the curser in a split line of a transaction, the word 'Tot'
> disappears.  You only see that when the curser is in boxes that are not a
> part of a split line.
> 
> 
> David C

That makes much more sense than my guess about an improper translation file. I 
never noticed it change before.

-Adrien

> 
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Maf. King  wrote:
> 
>> On Friday, 16 June 2017 16:04:02 BST EngineInstitute wrote:
>>> Adrien:
>>> 
>>> Look at your bank register. It should be labeled Tot Deposit/Tot
>> Withdraw.
>>> 
>>> Response:
>>> Checking account ledger tabs on the right are: Deposit/Withdraw not Tot
>>> Deposit or Tot Withdraw
>>> Tabs in the credit card ledger on right are labeled:
>>> Payment/Charge/Balance without the Tot
>>> Note: I checked the use formal account labels in the preference box
>> which
>>> is off for both ledgers.
>>> 
>>> I am trying to get the tabs to reflect yours so we are talking about the
>>> same thing. The bank register agrees (except for the Tot) but my credit
>> card
>>> ledger is not similar. I have visited  Edit/Preference. The bank ledger
>>> follows you without the Tot but the cc does not.
>>> 
>>> I did changed the credit card account to Account Type to: Credit Card.
>> This
>>> resolved the posting errors. Thanks for that.
>>> 
>> 
>> Hi ChinaBlue,
>> 
>> Hmm. seems that the differences in labels will have to remain a mystery,
>> my
>> Bank Checking is Tot Deposit / Tot Withdrawal and the ccard is Tot Payment
>> ./
>> Tot Charge.
>> 
>> However, I'm glad you got your posting errors sorted out in the end.
>> 
>> Maf.
>> 
>> 
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Adrien Monteleone]

> On Jun 16, 2017, at 10:04 AM, EngineInstitute  wrote:
> 
> Adrien:
> 
> Look at your bank register. It should be labeled Tot Deposit/Tot Withdraw. 
> 
> Response:
> Checking account ledger tabs on the right are: Deposit/Withdraw not Tot
> Deposit or Tot Withdraw
> Tabs in the credit card ledger on right are labeled: 
> Payment/Charge/Balance without the Tot
> Note: I checked the use formal account labels in the preference box which
> is off for both ledgers.

If you checked the box for “Use Formal Account Labels” then the preference is 
on and ALL accounts should be Debit/Credit.

If you unchecked the box, then the preference is off and ALL accounts will read 
according to their type.

As for not seeing the same exact informal labels, not having the ‘Tot’ in 
front, seems odd, but certainly that doesn’t change the functionality of the 
column. Try expanding the column by dragging the grid line left or right and 
see if more of the label is visible. (Usually it only shortens from the right, 
but your OS might be different - I’m on a Mac, though this should be a GTK 
thing, so it should work the same cross-platform)

Note, the wording of the label in this case is merely aesthetics. It might have 
something to do with locale translation. I’m using en-us. If you’re on a 
different English locale, that might explain the different wording. (it 
shouldn’t be different, but whoever created the translation file might have 
typed them differently or the en-us version was edited later to add the ’Tot’ 
in front, and someone forgot to update the other English files.)

> 
> I am trying to get the tabs to reflect yours so we are talking about the
> same thing. The bank register agrees (except for the Tot) but my credit card
> ledger is not similar.

When I have formal labels off, the credit card type accounts read like yours do 
save they have ‘Tot’ in front. (that is, Tot Payment/Tot Charge/Balance) 
However, I quickly switched to formal debit/credit labels when I started using 
GnuCash for the reasons I stated earlier:

They don’t change with each account.
They are the same for a split no matter which register I’m viewing.
They make sense for each split regardless of which register I’m viewing.

I also set Reversed Balance Accounts to “Credit” so everything with normal 
balances is a positive number. Also, this means an ‘increase’ in any account is 
a larger positive number from zero. If anything has a negative balance in red, 
that’s an easy visual indicator that something is wrong, or that account is in 
a non-normal balance state. I just find this easier to deal with. To each their 
own, which is why the setting is there.

Just for info and clarity, with “Use Formal Account Labels” checked, ALL 
accounts use Tot Debit/Tot Credit labels, in that order.

With that setting off, here are the informal labels used per account type:

Bank = Tot Deposit/Tot Withdrawal
Cash = Tot Receive/Tot Spend
Asset = Tot Increase/Tot Decrease
Credit Card = Tot Payment/Tot Charge
Liability = Tot Decrease/Tot Increase (note, they are the reverse of Asset)
Equity = Tot Decrease/Tot Increase
Income = Tot Charge/Tot Income
Expense = Tot Expense/Tot Rebate
A/Receivable = Tot Invoice/Tot Payment
A/Payable = Tot Payment/Tot Bill (note again, reverse of A/R)
Trading = Tot Decrease/Tot Increase

Stock & Mutual Fund types are a bit different and the labels (and columns 
available) depend on if the account is for the brokerage or for an individual 
stock/commodity.


> I have visited  Edit/Preference. The bank ledger
> follows you without the Tot but the cc does not.

EVERYTHING in the ‘Preferences’ window is for the entire application. That 
setting is not account/register specific. (you can’t turn on formal labels for 
one account and use informal labels on another) All of those tabs are 
Application Preferences, not Account Preferences.

The only ‘preferences’ (properties more accurately) which are changeable per 
account is whatever is shown when you either use the Edit button with an 
account highlighted, or use the right-click context menu “Edit Account” entry.

> 
> I did changed the credit card account to Account Type to: Credit Card. This
> resolved the posting errors. Thanks for that.

Your welcome.

-Adrien


> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> China Blue
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Maf. King]

On Friday, 16 June 2017 16:04:02 BST EngineInstitute wrote:
> Adrien:
> 
> Look at your bank register. It should be labeled Tot Deposit/Tot Withdraw.
> 
> Response:
>  Checking account ledger tabs on the right are: Deposit/Withdraw not Tot
> Deposit or Tot Withdraw
>  Tabs in the credit card ledger on right are labeled:
> Payment/Charge/Balance without the Tot
>  Note: I checked the use formal account labels in the preference box which
> is off for both ledgers.
> 
> I am trying to get the tabs to reflect yours so we are talking about the
> same thing. The bank register agrees (except for the Tot) but my credit card
> ledger is not similar. I have visited  Edit/Preference. The bank ledger
> follows you without the Tot but the cc does not.
> 
> I did changed the credit card account to Account Type to: Credit Card. This
> resolved the posting errors. Thanks for that.
> 

Hi ChinaBlue,

Hmm. seems that the differences in labels will have to remain a mystery,  my 
Bank Checking is Tot Deposit / Tot Withdrawal and the ccard is Tot Payment ./ 
Tot Charge.

However, I'm glad you got your posting errors sorted out in the end.

Maf.


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Re: Reconciling an account

[EngineInstitute]

Adrien:

Look at your bank register. It should be labeled Tot Deposit/Tot Withdraw. 

Response:
 Checking account ledger tabs on the right are: Deposit/Withdraw not Tot
Deposit or Tot Withdraw
 Tabs in the credit card ledger on right are labeled: 
Payment/Charge/Balance without the Tot
 Note: I checked the use formal account labels in the preference box which
is off for both ledgers.

I am trying to get the tabs to reflect yours so we are talking about the
same thing. The bank register agrees (except for the Tot) but my credit card
ledger is not similar. I have visited  Edit/Preference. The bank ledger
follows you without the Tot but the cc does not.

I did changed the credit card account to Account Type to: Credit Card. This
resolved the posting errors. Thanks for that.




-
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Adrien Monteleone]

From the perspective of the credit card account register, ‘decrease’ for the 
bank split is incorrect as well.

Look at your bank register. It should be labeled Tot Deposit/Tot Withdraw. (a 
cash account would say ‘Tot Receive/Tot Spend’ which is much easier to follow, 
a basic asset account will say Tot Increase/Tot Decrease)

For that payment transaction to the credit card account, you’d have an entry as 
Tot Deposit/Increase instead of Tot Withdrawal/Decrease, which is of course 
incorrect.

The transaction is backwards.

It might help to only enter payments from an asset account, or to use the 
transfer button. (which clearly marks that funds will come ‘from’ one account 
and ‘to’ another)

In the bank account register the transaction should look like this:

Account Tot Deposit/IncreaseTot Withdraw/Decrease
=== =
Liabilities:Credit Card $100
Assets:Checking $100


In the credit card register the transaction should look like this:

Account Tot Payment/DecreaseTot Charge/Increase
=== =
Liabilities:Credit Card $100
Assets:Checking $100


What is confusing here is that Decrease/Increase are NOT with respect to each 
split but ONLY with respect to the account register you are viewing. Really, 
this is a good example why informal labels are more confusing sometimes than 
Debit/Credit.

You might find it easier to change the credit card account type from just a 
liability account to a credit card type account. (highlight the account in the 
tree, click the Edit button, then click the ‘Credit Card’ label in the Account 
Type pane, and save) The same goes for your bank account. (there’s a type just 
for that)

Now your labels for the credit card account will be Tot Payment/Tot Charge. 
(and bank will be Tot Deposit/Tot Withdrawal)

That will still look odd for the checking account split from inside the credit 
card register, but it might help.

If you keep straight what is a normal credit and normal debit account, the 
formal labels are much easier to follow in my opinion.

-Adrien

> On Jun 13, 2017, at 12:14 PM, EngineInstitute  wrote:
> 
> Maf,
> Yes it is confusing.
> Ok got 2.6.15
> In the accounts tree the credit card account is listed directly under
> Liabilities. When looking at the preferences of this account under
> Edit/Preferences/Accounts it is listed under Reverse Balance Accounts as a
> Credit account. This category I understand is a for credit cards (vs Income
> and expense).  Formal label accounting is off. On the accounting page for
> the credit card headers for columns read from left to right beginning with
> Transfer: R, Decrease, Increase, Balance.
> When a credit card payment is made from the checking account it is reflected
> as decrease on the bank side (correct) and an increase on the credit card
> side (wrong).
> I hope this clarifies this problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692159.html
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Re: Reconciling an account

[EngineInstitute]

Maf,
Yes it is confusing.
Ok got 2.6.15
In the accounts tree the credit card account is listed directly under
Liabilities. When looking at the preferences of this account under
Edit/Preferences/Accounts it is listed under Reverse Balance Accounts as a
Credit account. This category I understand is a for credit cards (vs Income
and expense).  Formal label accounting is off. On the accounting page for
the credit card headers for columns read from left to right beginning with
Transfer: R, Decrease, Increase, Balance.
When a credit card payment is made from the checking account it is reflected
as decrease on the bank side (correct) and an increase on the credit card
side (wrong).
I hope this clarifies this problem.




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Re: Reconciling an account

[Adrien Monteleone]

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 12:10 PM, EngineInstitute  wrote:
> 
> David:
> 
> It is account is under the Liabilities and labeled as a Credit account.
> Note: it shows deposits on left and withdrawals on right. Is that because it
> was originally an income & expense account and I changed it?

You shouldn’t have deposits/withdrawals to a liability account. You should have 
either debits/credits or payments/charges.

> 
> Steps taken: 
> Down graded the program to 2.4.15 (there is no 2.6.15)
> No change.
> Opened a new test account to isolate the activity. It is a Credit Liability
> account, beginning 1/11/17
> Note: New account reflects: Increase on left and Decrease on right
> Input new data for month 1

Unless you are confusing ‘increase’ with ‘positive’ then it is still not 
correctly set as a credit type liability account.

Increase/Decrease are used as non-formal labels for type asset. An account of 
type Bank is an asset, but type Credit Card is a liability.

If it is a credit card it should be type credit card.

How did you create the account?



Let’s start over - you never specified what this account is tracking.

Is this a credit card? A checking account? A savings account? Something else?

That makes a difference as to how it should be classified and how 
debits/credits affect the balance.

-Adrien


> Reassigned payment against the card from the check book. New problem it
> assigns the payment as an increase not decrease.
> 
> My problems seem to be increasing not decreasing.
> Should I delete GnuCash and download a fresh version of 2.4.15?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692148.html
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Maf. King]

On Monday, 12 June 2017 22:00:35 BST Maf. King wrote:

> > Steps taken:
> > Down graded the program to 2.4.15 (there is no 2.6.15)
> 
> There is.
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/gnucash/files/gnucash %28stable%29/2.6.15/
> 

Sorry, Link got mangled.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/gnucash/files/gnucash (stable)/2.6.15/

that's gnucash(stable)/2.6.15/  which might be really awkward depending 
on your email client & browser combination.  You can get there in a couple of 
click from the bit before the space, though...

Maf.


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Re: Reconciling an account

[Maf. King]

On Monday, 12 June 2017 18:10:47 BST EngineInstitute wrote:
> David:
> 
> It is account is under the Liabilities and labeled as a Credit account.
> Note: it shows deposits on left and withdrawals on right. Is that because it
> was originally an income & expense account and I changed it?

Hi ChinaBlue,

This is getting confusing!  So the account is Type: Credit Card ?  If so, mine 
show "money I spend" in the Credit Column, (Tot Charge if the "use formal 
labels" preference is off), which is the rightmost of the two.  When I pay a 
credit card bill from my bank, the CCard accounts shows the transaction in the 
prior column, labeled Debit (or Payment)

> 
> Steps taken:
> Down graded the program to 2.4.15 (there is no 2.6.15)

There is.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/gnucash/files/gnucash %28stable%29/2.6.15/

> No change.
> Opened a new test account to isolate the activity. It is a Credit Liability
> account, 

What is a "credit liability" account?  I appreciate you've dropped back to 
2.4.x and terminology may have changed since that was current a few years ago, 
but I don't recall that as an option for account type.

If you can get 2.6.15 to install, it might save a source of confusion.


> beginning 1/11/17
> Note: New account reflects: Increase on left and Decrease on right

Are Increase | Decrease the column headings?  I see that layout in accounts of 
Type:Asset (with "use formal labels" off).  Type:Credit Cards are Payment | 
Charge and Type:Liabilities are Decrease | Increase  

> Input new data for month 1
> Reassigned payment against the card from the check book. New problem it
> assigns the payment as an increase not decrease.
> 

IMHO, I think you've got the account types mixed up, as I think Derek alluded 
in a prior post.  Maybe your expense accounts aren't type Expense, or maybe 
the Credit Card is wrongly set in some way. 


> My problems seem to be increasing not decreasing.
> Should I delete GnuCash and download a fresh version of 2.4.15?

I would suggest you uninstall 2.4.15 and install  2.6.15 as linked above.  
(The reason to use 2.6.15 rather than latest 2.6.16 is that the older version 
allows you to change an account's type from the Edit Account dialogue, which 
2.6.16 does not permit.)

I've attached a screengrab of my credit card register, showing Friendly labels 
and 3 transactions - if it gets through the list it may help if you have 
something to compare against? (i'm in double-line, auto-split view by default)

Maf.

> 
> 

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Re: Reconciling an account

[EngineInstitute]

David:

It is account is under the Liabilities and labeled as a Credit account.
Note: it shows deposits on left and withdrawals on right. Is that because it
was originally an income & expense account and I changed it?

Steps taken: 
Down graded the program to 2.4.15 (there is no 2.6.15)
No change.
Opened a new test account to isolate the activity. It is a Credit Liability
account, beginning 1/11/17
Note: New account reflects: Increase on left and Decrease on right
Input new data for month 1
Reassigned payment against the card from the check book. New problem it
assigns the payment as an increase not decrease.

My problems seem to be increasing not decreasing.
Should I delete GnuCash and download a fresh version of 2.4.15?




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Re: Reconciling an account

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

EngineInstitute  writes:

> Dave, 
> No worries about raining on my parade.
> I figured it was probably a preferences issue. I did check the account and

I don't think it's a preferences issue.

> it was marked income & expense not credit. So I changed it to credit. So
> that shows the balance correctly as a negative (which I overlooked). Also it
> is positioned correctly as a liability account and is not a sub account.

I don't understand this statement "positioned correctly as a liability
account and is not a sub account"??  Do you mean that you have this
listed as a Top Level Account???  That's...  weird.

> But yes it still does not solve the problem because the reconciled amount
> now is simply a positive $195.14 difference.

Which again implies that you entered your transactions backwards.

> Agreed, indeed after I celebrated for a few moments I too realized that that
> could not be the solution since the prior month was balanced. 
> Well tomorrow is another day. I will attack it again then. 
> Thanks for your continued thoughts on this.

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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-derek
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Christopher Lam]

Perhaps you may share a partial screenshot of your liability account
register? Zap confidential data, however, some data has already been shared
:)

On 7 June 2017 at 10:26, EngineInstitute  wrote:

> Dave,
> No worries about raining on my parade.
> I figured it was probably a preferences issue. I did check the account and
> it was marked income & expense not credit. So I changed it to credit. So
> that shows the balance correctly as a negative (which I overlooked). Also
> it
> is positioned correctly as a liability account and is not a sub account.
> But yes it still does not solve the problem because the reconciled amount
> now is simply a positive $195.14 difference.
> Agreed, indeed after I celebrated for a few moments I too realized that
> that
> could not be the solution since the prior month was balanced.
> Well tomorrow is another day. I will attack it again then.
> Thanks for your continued thoughts on this.
>
>
>
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.
> nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692066.html
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Re: Reconciling an account

[David Carlson]

I really hate to rain on your parade...
Check your Edit>Preferences>Accounts>Reverse Balanced Accounts.

I believe the default is labelled Credit, but that means Credit Card,
Payable, Liability
 Equity and Income, and that is probably what is checked in your file.

If that is so, then the balance should be positive, charges would be on the
right and your payments would be on the left as shown, and the
reconciliation is still backwards.

However, if your liability account was a sub-account of an asset account
you might see that behavior???

If that is true, you would need to move it under the Liability umbrella to
make it correct.  What bothers me, though is that you say previous months
were ok.  There was a change in release 2.6.16 that made it impossible to
make that kind of error (if it is, indeed an error), but I do not know how
it handles existing errors of that type.  It may be necessary to revert to
2.6.15 to correct this (see
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=603379#c24).

David C


On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 6:36 PM, EngineInstitute 
wrote:

> Thanks for that hint David, I did check the running totals in the register
> and I did not find anything but what I did was realize what the source of
> the problem is.
> This is a liability account. In the reconciliation window the funds in
> should create a decrease on the balance and the funds out an increase That
> is it should be subtracting the income and adding the debts Here is the
> correct computation
> 5363.26
> -640.73
> +543.16
> =5265.69 Correct to the statement
>
> GnuCash is doing the opposite:
> 5363.26
> +640.73
> -543.16
> =5460.83
> Difference: ($195.14)
> This is why I am out of balance!
>
> Any ideas on how to correct this calculation error?
>
> BTW thank you a ton to everyone for helping with this horribly sticky
> problem.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.
> nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692063.html
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Derek Atkins]

That means your transactions are entered backwards. 
-derek
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity or typos.

On June 6, 2017 7:36:25 PM EDT, EngineInstitute  wrote:
>Thanks for that hint David, I did check the running totals in the
>register
>and I did not find anything but what I did was realize what the source
>of
>the problem is.
>This is a liability account. In the reconciliation window the funds in
>should create a decrease on the balance and the funds out an increase
>That
>is it should be subtracting the income and adding the debts Here is the
>correct computation
>5363.26
>-640.73
>+543.16
>=5265.69 Correct to the statement
>
>GnuCash is doing the opposite:
>5363.26
>+640.73
>-543.16
>=5460.83
>Difference: ($195.14)
>This is why I am out of balance!
>
>Any ideas on how to correct this calculation error?
>
>BTW thank you a ton to everyone for helping with this horribly sticky
>problem.
>
>
>
>
>
>-
>China Blue
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692063.html
>Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Reconciling an account

[EngineInstitute]

Thanks for that hint David, I did check the running totals in the register
and I did not find anything but what I did was realize what the source of
the problem is.
This is a liability account. In the reconciliation window the funds in
should create a decrease on the balance and the funds out an increase That
is it should be subtracting the income and adding the debts Here is the
correct computation
5363.26
-640.73
+543.16
=5265.69 Correct to the statement

GnuCash is doing the opposite:
5363.26
+640.73
-543.16
=5460.83
Difference: ($195.14)
This is why I am out of balance!

Any ideas on how to correct this calculation error?

BTW thank you a ton to everyone for helping with this horribly sticky
problem.





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Re: Reconciling an account

[EngineInstitute]

Yes, Mark.



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Re: Reconciling an account

[David Carlson]

Ok, the next thing to do is to go into your register view and look at the
running total next to each of the transactions that you show in your
images, to see if the value was correctly added or subtracted by GnuCash.
Also set the register view to Transaction Journal to see if there are any
suspicious splits.

There are some sneaky ways that GnuCash can keep some hidden values in
transactions.  In my case, they were all resulting from corrupted scheduled
transactions, and they usually resulted in an entry in the Imbalance
account.

David C

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Mark Phillips 
wrote:

> Is your opening balance for this account correct?
>
> Mark
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:20 PM, EngineInstitute 
> wrote:
>
> > Yes I tried the manual way using the transaction report to check against
> > both
> > the Gnu reconciliation as well as the statement.  Nothing is obvious.
> > I also checked by applying the filter without the reconciled items and
> what
> > came up are the items in the to be reconciled in the reconcile register.
> > Finally I also did a global search for $195.14 and $97.57 no entries of
> > those amounts.
> > I thought I would upload images so it is easier to discuss.
> > As you can see the dialog shows what it expects as the final amount:
> > $5265.69 (my statement balance)
> > The next is the reconcile page that shows the reconciled balance with a
> > difference of $97.57 (there are no outstanding items past 3/11).
> > After reconciling the totals at the bottom of each white box (funds in
> and
> > funds out) agree with the statement.
> > So why the ($195.14) difference? I note that is double the difference of
> > $97.57 in the pre-reconciled sum.
> > I am sure it is something obvious but I can't for the life of me see it.
> > Dialog1.jpg  > Dialog1.jpg>
> > PreReconciled.jpg
> > 
> > Reconciled.jpg
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > China Blue
> > --
> > View this message in context: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.
> > nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692059.html
> > Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Mark Phillips]

Is your opening balance for this account correct?

Mark

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:20 PM, EngineInstitute 
wrote:

> Yes I tried the manual way using the transaction report to check against
> both
> the Gnu reconciliation as well as the statement.  Nothing is obvious.
> I also checked by applying the filter without the reconciled items and what
> came up are the items in the to be reconciled in the reconcile register.
> Finally I also did a global search for $195.14 and $97.57 no entries of
> those amounts.
> I thought I would upload images so it is easier to discuss.
> As you can see the dialog shows what it expects as the final amount:
> $5265.69 (my statement balance)
> The next is the reconcile page that shows the reconciled balance with a
> difference of $97.57 (there are no outstanding items past 3/11).
> After reconciling the totals at the bottom of each white box (funds in and
> funds out) agree with the statement.
> So why the ($195.14) difference? I note that is double the difference of
> $97.57 in the pre-reconciled sum.
> I am sure it is something obvious but I can't for the life of me see it.
> Dialog1.jpg  Dialog1.jpg>
> PreReconciled.jpg
> 
> Reconciled.jpg
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.
> nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692059.html
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Re: Reconciling an account

[EngineInstitute]

Yes I tried the manual way using the transaction report to check against both
the Gnu reconciliation as well as the statement.  Nothing is obvious.
I also checked by applying the filter without the reconciled items and what
came up are the items in the to be reconciled in the reconcile register.
Finally I also did a global search for $195.14 and $97.57 no entries of
those amounts.
I thought I would upload images so it is easier to discuss. 
As you can see the dialog shows what it expects as the final amount:
$5265.69 (my statement balance)
The next is the reconcile page that shows the reconciled balance with a
difference of $97.57 (there are no outstanding items past 3/11).
After reconciling the totals at the bottom of each white box (funds in and
funds out) agree with the statement.
So why the ($195.14) difference? I note that is double the difference of
$97.57 in the pre-reconciled sum.
I am sure it is something obvious but I can't for the life of me see it.
Dialog1.jpg   
PreReconciled.jpg
  
Reconciled.jpg
  







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Re: Reconciling an account

[EngineInstitute]

Mike,
I did do it the old way eg: pen and paper and checked so I did not overlook
transpositions by checking my total payments noted in Gnucash against the
statement which agree as well as the credits. And indeed there are no
outstanding amounts for 195.14 or 97.57. 
Since the statement and Gnucash sums agree it is somewhere else.
Thanks for the thought though.



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Re: Reconciling an account

[Colin Law]

Have you tried the earlier suggestion of splitting the statement every
few transactions and treating each group of three or four transactions
as a separate statement and reconciling each group separately. Then
you will tie the problem down to three or four so you should be able
to see what is causing the problem.

If you don't understand what I mean then ask again.

Colin

On 6 June 2017 at 01:08, EngineInstitute  wrote:
> Colin,
>
> I was thinking it was a version problem so I updated my software to make
> sure this was not the case.
>
> I love your suggestion. I did not know about the filter option. So I
> implemented it and cleared the reconciled items, then went back to the
> reconcile for that month and all agrees. Yeh for you!
>
> But don't celebrate totally yet. I am at the next and final month to
> reconcile. I go to do the reconcile dialog box and check everything and all
> of the items are ok: date, starting and ending balance all agree with final
> statement. When this happens it should be a cake walk right? Not for me.
>
> I check off all of the credits and debits and compare their totals
> (reflected on the bottom) with the statement and everything is in order yet
> I am faced with a difference of $195.14. This is definitely not correct.
> Have I found a bug?
>
>
>
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692053.html
> Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Mike or Penny Novack]

On 6/5/2017 8:08 PM, EngineInstitute wrote:

Colin,




  When this happens it should be a cake walk right? Not for me.

I check off all of the credits and debits and compare their totals
(reflected on the bottom) with the statement and everything is in order yet
I am faced with a difference of $195.14. This is definitely not correct.
Have I found a bug?

-
China Blue
--
This is why I keep referring to "the old way, pen and ink on paper". If 
you have no experience doing that (solving discrepancies during hand 
reconciliation) it will be hard to find the problem. No, almost 
certainly not a bug.


It is what you DON'T say that is important. For example, I am not seeing 
you say "and there is no transaction with amount $195.14 or amount 
$97.57 and $195.14 is not divisible by 9" << the first would be a 
transaction not recorded or a date difference, the second a transaction 
recorded on the wrong side, and the third a digit transposition >>


However -- since you are using the tool other people should be helping 
you << I lack access to private/secure broadband and so reconcile more 
like the old fashioned way --- all the organizations for which I keep 
books are low volume, typically less than a dozen checks plus deposits a 
month, so not hard by hand >>


Michael D Novack
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Mark Phillips]

I seriously doubt you have found a bug. You probably have a transaction in
GnuCash that does not match the bank's transaction. Digits are transposed,
debits/credits are reversed, a transaction is in the wrong account (so not
in the one you are reconciling) or something like that.

I have had this problem in the past. The best way for me to solve it is to
get away from the computer screen and use paper and pencil to find the
errant transaction(s). In GNUCash, go to Reports (top line menus) and
select Transaction Report. Run a transaction report for the account in
question for the date range in question. Include the option to include the
reconciliation date for each transaction. Print it out. Take a highlighter,
and compare each transaction on the GnuCash report with the bank statement.
Cross out the ones on BOTH sheets of paper that 100% MATCH - be sure the
column for the reconciliation date is blank (or correct for the current
period you are working on) for that transaction, or you have reconciled
that transaction in an earlier reconciliation (an aha - you have found one
error). At the end of this exercise, you should have found the error(s) -
either on the bank or on you. ;) Remember, the $195.14 is the SUM of ALL
the errors in this reconciliation.

Good luck!

Mark

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 5:08 PM, EngineInstitute 
wrote:

> Colin,
>
> I was thinking it was a version problem so I updated my software to make
> sure this was not the case.
>
> I love your suggestion. I did not know about the filter option. So I
> implemented it and cleared the reconciled items, then went back to the
> reconcile for that month and all agrees. Yeh for you!
>
> But don't celebrate totally yet. I am at the next and final month to
> reconcile. I go to do the reconcile dialog box and check everything and all
> of the items are ok: date, starting and ending balance all agree with final
> statement. When this happens it should be a cake walk right? Not for me.
>
> I check off all of the credits and debits and compare their totals
> (reflected on the bottom) with the statement and everything is in order yet
> I am faced with a difference of $195.14. This is definitely not correct.
> Have I found a bug?
>
>
>
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.
> nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692053.html
> Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Reconciling an account

[EngineInstitute]

Colin,

I was thinking it was a version problem so I updated my software to make
sure this was not the case.

I love your suggestion. I did not know about the filter option. So I
implemented it and cleared the reconciled items, then went back to the
reconcile for that month and all agrees. Yeh for you!
 
But don't celebrate totally yet. I am at the next and final month to
reconcile. I go to do the reconcile dialog box and check everything and all
of the items are ok: date, starting and ending balance all agree with final
statement. When this happens it should be a cake walk right? Not for me.

I check off all of the credits and debits and compare their totals
(reflected on the bottom) with the statement and everything is in order yet
I am faced with a difference of $195.14. This is definitely not correct.
Have I found a bug?



-
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Re: Reconciling an account

[David Carlson]

Wow, now we are getting some well detailed suggestions!

I will add a couple:  To quickly see if all previous transactions were
really reconciled, select View > Filter by .> Status > uncheck Reconciled.

If you don't have too many transactions with dates earlier than the bank
cleared them, your running balance should agree with the bank's running
balance, at least when there is a 'dry' spell.  If the difference
consistently goes back to the same value, that is a clue of the amount, ant
the first time you see that value would be the approximate date.

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Colin Law  wrote:

> Have you possibly entered a transaction the wrong way round (debit
> instead of credit or vise versa)? Then not noticed this when you tick
> it off?
>
> A suggestion earlier may be a good one if you still cannot find where
> you are going wrong. Draw lines on your statement after every, say, 4
> entries. Then reconcile from the start to the first line by entering
> the balance from the statement at that time. If the first one
> reconciles ok then do the next, and so on till you find the error.
>
> Note that others suggesting that this may be due to changed earlier
> transactions and so on are wrong. If the starting balance on the
> statement agrees with the starting balance in the reconcile window
> then the error is to do with the transactions on the statement,
> nothing else.
>
> Colin
>
> On 5 June 2017 at 18:10, EngineInstitute  wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > What baffles me is that I am balancing a credit card statement with
> little
> > activity. It was reconciled correctly the prior month, so the starting
> > balance for the following month is correct.
> >
> > In this case the initial reconcile box reflects a different balance, so I
> > put in the new balance to reflect the statement. Usually if everything
> is in
> > order that number agrees with the statement. In this case it does not (I
> > thought this strange) so I corrected the number.
> >
> > I then took the normal steps and checked off the expenses (not many) and
> > payments as well as the interest against the statement. Yet, there is no
> > agreement.
> >
> > I double checked my work against the statement's payment amounts,
> purchase
> > amounts and interest charged to make sure that these sums add up to what
> was
> > in GnuCash. All agree yet the balance in GnuCash is off by hundreds of
> > dollars. Since all of the prior months sums are balanced, my data is
> correct
> > and there is no outstanding activity that might somehow affect the
> balance I
> > cannot figure out what to look for and how to resolve this weird problem.
> >
> > Note I have been doing bookkeeping for many years so knowing how to
> > reconcile a statement is not the problem. I am wondering if there is
> > something that I don't understand with how GnuCash manages the data.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > China Blue
> > --
> > View this message in context: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.
> nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692041.html
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Colin Law]

Have you possibly entered a transaction the wrong way round (debit
instead of credit or vise versa)? Then not noticed this when you tick
it off?

A suggestion earlier may be a good one if you still cannot find where
you are going wrong. Draw lines on your statement after every, say, 4
entries. Then reconcile from the start to the first line by entering
the balance from the statement at that time. If the first one
reconciles ok then do the next, and so on till you find the error.

Note that others suggesting that this may be due to changed earlier
transactions and so on are wrong. If the starting balance on the
statement agrees with the starting balance in the reconcile window
then the error is to do with the transactions on the statement,
nothing else.

Colin

On 5 June 2017 at 18:10, EngineInstitute  wrote:
> John,
>
> What baffles me is that I am balancing a credit card statement with little
> activity. It was reconciled correctly the prior month, so the starting
> balance for the following month is correct.
>
> In this case the initial reconcile box reflects a different balance, so I
> put in the new balance to reflect the statement. Usually if everything is in
> order that number agrees with the statement. In this case it does not (I
> thought this strange) so I corrected the number.
>
> I then took the normal steps and checked off the expenses (not many) and
> payments as well as the interest against the statement. Yet, there is no
> agreement.
>
> I double checked my work against the statement's payment amounts, purchase
> amounts and interest charged to make sure that these sums add up to what was
> in GnuCash. All agree yet the balance in GnuCash is off by hundreds of
> dollars. Since all of the prior months sums are balanced, my data is correct
> and there is no outstanding activity that might somehow affect the balance I
> cannot figure out what to look for and how to resolve this weird problem.
>
> Note I have been doing bookkeeping for many years so knowing how to
> reconcile a statement is not the problem. I am wondering if there is
> something that I don't understand with how GnuCash manages the data.
>
>
>
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692041.html
> Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Dean Gibson]

I misspoke.  I meant the ending date.  When I change the ending date to 
match the statement, that gives me the corresponding ending balance, 
every time, so I don't have to adjust it (assuming I've downloaded all 
the bank/CC transactions).


My only "complaint" with the GnuCash reconciliation process, is that if 
there is a debit balance in a liability reconciliation, I don't get the 
additional window at the end of the reconciliation, which allows me to 
transfer the balance to another account.  I have to generate that 
transaction manually (a very tiny amount of extra work).


On 2017-06-05 12:10, Derek Atkins wrote:

Hi Dean,

On Mon, June 5, 2017 2:52 pm, Dean Gibson wrote:

Make sure that the reconciliation "beginning date" is the same as that on your 
statement.  A different date will create a different beginning balance.


This is not correct.  You cannot change the beginning date.  That date is the 
"closing" date from your last reconcile.  GnuCash tries to figure out the 
correct closing date based on the last two reconciles.  The EXACT date only affects 
GnuCash's proposed ending balance, and will affect the next suggested closing date.  It 
has very little other meaning.

So yes, you should correct the ending date, and verify the starting date. But 
if the starting date is wrong there's nothing you can do about it.


In any case, don't change the balance manually, unless you have a good 
reason to.


This is ABSOLUTELY wrong.  You should ABSOLUTELY change the ending balance to 
match the correct balance from your statement!  You may have entries in your 
books that didn't clear (e.g. a check that hasn't been deposited yet) that will 
affect your balance but wont be on the statement.

So sorry, you should absolutely change the ending balance in the reconcile 
dialog to be the correct balance from your statement.  Then when you check off 
the items you'll ensure your books and the bank books are in sync.

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Re: Reconciling an account

[Derek Atkins]

Hi Dean,

On Mon, June 5, 2017 2:52 pm, Dean Gibson wrote:
> Make sure that the reconciliation "beginning date" is the same as that
> on your statement.  A different date will create a different beginning
> balance.

This is not correct.  You cannot change the beginning date.  That date is
the "closing" date from your last reconcile.  GnuCash tries to figure out
the correct closing date based on the last two reconciles.  The EXACT date
only affects GnuCash's proposed ending balance, and will affect the next
suggested closing date.  It has very little other meaning.

So yes, you should correct the ending date, and verify the starting date. 
But if the starting date is wrong there's nothing you can do about it.

>In any case, don't change the balance manually, unless you
> have a good reason to.

This is ABSOLUTELY wrong.  You should ABSOLUTELY change the ending balance
to match the correct balance from your statement!  You may have entries in
your books that didn't clear (e.g. a check that hasn't been deposited yet)
that will affect your balance but wont be on the statement.

So sorry, you should absolutely change the ending balance in the reconcile
dialog to be the correct balance from your statement.  Then when you check
off the items you'll ensure your books and the bank books are in sync.

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: Reconciling an account

[Adrien Monteleone]

Have you checked against the possibility that GC isn’t the location of the 
error?

If all the transactions on your statement match GC and you’ve checked off only 
those transactions in the reconciliation window, and the starting balances line 
up, then if the statement ending balance and GC don’t agree, try manually 
adding up the statement figures. It is not impossible for the bank statement to 
not add up correctly. I’ve seen this on invoices many times. It is usually a 
result of human editing and not proofing, or not properly refreshing a report. 
While this is certainly less likely from an auto-generated bank statement, I 
wouldn’t dismiss it entirely.

Computers are great, but I’ve caught many (human) errors walking through the 
math the old fashioned way. (at least with a calculator, not pen and paper)

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 12:10 PM, EngineInstitute  wrote:
> 
> John, 
> 
> What baffles me is that I am balancing a credit card statement with little
> activity. It was reconciled correctly the prior month, so the starting
> balance for the following month is correct. 
> 
> In this case the initial reconcile box reflects a different balance, so I
> put in the new balance to reflect the statement. Usually if everything is in
> order that number agrees with the statement. In this case it does not (I
> thought this strange) so I corrected the number. 
> 
> I then took the normal steps and checked off the expenses (not many) and
> payments as well as the interest against the statement. Yet, there is no
> agreement.
> 
> I double checked my work against the statement's payment amounts, purchase
> amounts and interest charged to make sure that these sums add up to what was
> in GnuCash. All agree yet the balance in GnuCash is off by hundreds of
> dollars. Since all of the prior months sums are balanced, my data is correct
> and there is no outstanding activity that might somehow affect the balance I
> cannot figure out what to look for and how to resolve this weird problem.
> 
> Note I have been doing bookkeeping for many years so knowing how to
> reconcile a statement is not the problem. I am wondering if there is
> something that I don't understand with how GnuCash manages the data.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692041.html
> Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Dean Gibson]

Make sure that the reconciliation "beginning date" is the same as that 
on your statement.  A different date will create a different beginning 
balance.  In any case, don't change the balance manually, unless you 
have a good reason to.


On 2017-06-05 10:10, EngineInstitute wrote:

John,

What baffles me is that I am balancing a credit card statement with little
activity. It was reconciled correctly the prior month, so the starting
balance for the following month is correct.



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Re: Reconciling an account

[David Carlson]

I often have duplicate entries appear in transfer accounts when I import
transactions resulting from imperfect matching during the import process.

While these are usually easy to find and fix, sometimes I make an error and
"fix" the wrong transaction or split.

If a previously reconciled transaction is deleted, that is one of several
ways the "starting" balance can change from the previous month end balance.


It is usually ok to just ignore the starting balance and see what falls out
when every transaction on the statement is matched to a Gnucash transaction.

David C

On Jun 5, 2017 12:26 PM, "EngineInstitute"  wrote:

> John,
>
> What baffles me is that I am balancing a credit card statement with little
> activity. It was reconciled correctly the prior month, so the starting
> balance for the following month is correct.
>
> In this case the initial reconcile box reflects a different balance, so I
> put in the new balance to reflect the statement. Usually if everything is
> in
> order that number agrees with the statement. In this case it does not (I
> thought this strange) so I corrected the number.
>
> I then took the normal steps and checked off the expenses (not many) and
> payments as well as the interest against the statement. Yet, there is no
> agreement.
>
> I double checked my work against the statement's payment amounts, purchase
> amounts and interest charged to make sure that these sums add up to what
> was
> in GnuCash. All agree yet the balance in GnuCash is off by hundreds of
> dollars. Since all of the prior months sums are balanced, my data is
> correct
> and there is no outstanding activity that might somehow affect the balance
> I
> cannot figure out what to look for and how to resolve this weird problem.
>
> Note I have been doing bookkeeping for many years so knowing how to
> reconcile a statement is not the problem. I am wondering if there is
> something that I don't understand with how GnuCash manages the data.
>
>
>
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.
> nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692041.html
> Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Reconciling an account

[EngineInstitute]

John, 

What baffles me is that I am balancing a credit card statement with little
activity. It was reconciled correctly the prior month, so the starting
balance for the following month is correct. 

In this case the initial reconcile box reflects a different balance, so I
put in the new balance to reflect the statement. Usually if everything is in
order that number agrees with the statement. In this case it does not (I
thought this strange) so I corrected the number. 

I then took the normal steps and checked off the expenses (not many) and
payments as well as the interest against the statement. Yet, there is no
agreement.

I double checked my work against the statement's payment amounts, purchase
amounts and interest charged to make sure that these sums add up to what was
in GnuCash. All agree yet the balance in GnuCash is off by hundreds of
dollars. Since all of the prior months sums are balanced, my data is correct
and there is no outstanding activity that might somehow affect the balance I
cannot figure out what to look for and how to resolve this weird problem.

Note I have been doing bookkeeping for many years so knowing how to
reconcile a statement is not the problem. I am wondering if there is
something that I don't understand with how GnuCash manages the data.



-
China Blue
--
View this message in context: 
http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993p4692041.html
Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Michael via gnucash-user]

On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 12:48:35 -0400
Derek Atkins  wrote:

> He's wrong.
> You should absolutely change the ending balance in the dialog to
> match your statement because you may have transactions that haven't
> cleared yet. -derek

It sounded like the OP was changing the balance but not the date.  I
agree they should all match the statement to expose any needed
adjustments.  Mike
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Derek Atkins]

He's wrong.
You should absolutely change the ending balance in the dialog to match your 
statement because you may have transactions that haven't cleared yet.  
-derek
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity or typos.

On June 4, 2017 12:27:34 PM EDT, Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi Derek
>
>That is what I do, (change the end balance in the reconcile open
>dialog) the question was directed at mjchurchill who said
>
>> Colin, I check the stafting date and balance, then the end date,
>finally the
>> end balance; the end balance chages to match the Gnucash opinion of
>the
>> balance for that date.  If that does not match the statement then
>more work
>> is needed. Mike
>
>By which I understood he meant that one should not change the end
>balance in the reconcile dialog.
>
>Colin
>
>
>On 4 June 2017 at 17:07, Derek Atkins <de...@ihtfp.com> wrote:
>> Easy.  Don't mark it reconciled.
>> Also make sure you enter in the correct statement ending balance.
>> -derek
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity
>or typos.
>>
>> On June 4, 2017 11:07:01 AM EDT, Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>So what do you do if you have entered a cheque before the statement
>>>date, but it had not been cleared when the bank printed the
>statement?
>>>
>>>Colin
>>>
>>>On 4 June 2017 at 14:53, mjchurchill <mjchurc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Colin, I check the stafting date and balance, then the end date,
>>>finally the
>>>> end balance; the end balance chages to match the Gnucash opinion of
>>>the
>>>> balance for that date.  If that does not match the statement then
>>>more work
>>>> is needed. Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Samsung tablet
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Original message 
>>>> From Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com>
>>>> Date: 06/04/2017 6:08 AM (GMT-08:00)
>>>> To stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com
>>>> Cc gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>>>> Subject Re: Reconciling an account
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael, Do you mean you do not start by setting the ending balance
>>>in
>>>> the reconcile opening dialog to that from the statement that you
>are
>>>> reconciling against?
>>>>
>>>> Colin
>>>>
>>>> On 4 June 2017 at 12:29, Mike or Penny Novack
>>>> <stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 6/3/2017 6:51 PM, EngineInstitute wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am having problems reconciling an account. The starting balance
>>>agrees
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the statement but ending balance does not. OK so I changed the
>>>ending
>>>>>> balance to the correct one in the initial dialog box. I then went
>>>on to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> next task of checking all of the debts and credits. I did that
>and
>>>>>> compared
>>>>>> the sum of the total debt and credit amounts against the
>statement
>>>so far
>>>>>> ok. BUT the ending balance still does not agree even there are no
>>>>>> additional
>>>>>> debts logs and one outstanding credit and I cannot close the
>>>account for
>>>>>> that period. What am I missing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>  What kind of account are we talking about? Since you mention
>>>reconciling
>>>>> against a statement is this a checking account?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, have you ever reconciled a checkbook against bank statement
>>>in the
>>>>> old fashioned days, statement against your check register? If not,
>>>you
>>>>> likely have no clue what to look for. You do not start by
>"changing
>>>an
>>>>> amount"! Using GnuCash:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Confirm that there is nothing in either Imbalance or Orphan. If
>>>there
>>>>> is,
>>>>> correct that problem first.
>>>>> 2) Look at the statement from the bank. Are there any transactions
>>>there
>>>>> that have not been entered in GnuCash? << assuming that you can
>>>recognize
>>>>> these as valid transaction

Re: Reconciling an account

[Colin Law]

Hi Derek

That is what I do, (change the end balance in the reconcile open
dialog) the question was directed at mjchurchill who said

> Colin, I check the stafting date and balance, then the end date, finally the
> end balance; the end balance chages to match the Gnucash opinion of the
> balance for that date.  If that does not match the statement then more work
> is needed. Mike

By which I understood he meant that one should not change the end
balance in the reconcile dialog.

Colin


On 4 June 2017 at 17:07, Derek Atkins <de...@ihtfp.com> wrote:
> Easy.  Don't mark it reconciled.
> Also make sure you enter in the correct statement ending balance.
> -derek
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity or typos.
>
> On June 4, 2017 11:07:01 AM EDT, Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>So what do you do if you have entered a cheque before the statement
>>date, but it had not been cleared when the bank printed the statement?
>>
>>Colin
>>
>>On 4 June 2017 at 14:53, mjchurchill <mjchurc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Colin, I check the stafting date and balance, then the end date,
>>finally the
>>> end balance; the end balance chages to match the Gnucash opinion of
>>the
>>> balance for that date.  If that does not match the statement then
>>more work
>>> is needed. Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Samsung tablet
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Original message 
>>> From Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: 06/04/2017 6:08 AM (GMT-08:00)
>>> To stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com
>>> Cc gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>>> Subject Re: Reconciling an account
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael, Do you mean you do not start by setting the ending balance
>>in
>>> the reconcile opening dialog to that from the statement that you are
>>> reconciling against?
>>>
>>> Colin
>>>
>>> On 4 June 2017 at 12:29, Mike or Penny Novack
>>> <stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com> wrote:
>>>> On 6/3/2017 6:51 PM, EngineInstitute wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am having problems reconciling an account. The starting balance
>>agrees
>>>>> with
>>>>> the statement but ending balance does not. OK so I changed the
>>ending
>>>>> balance to the correct one in the initial dialog box. I then went
>>on to
>>>>> the
>>>>> next task of checking all of the debts and credits. I did that and
>>>>> compared
>>>>> the sum of the total debt and credit amounts against the statement
>>so far
>>>>> ok. BUT the ending balance still does not agree even there are no
>>>>> additional
>>>>> debts logs and one outstanding credit and I cannot close the
>>account for
>>>>> that period. What am I missing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>  What kind of account are we talking about? Since you mention
>>reconciling
>>>> against a statement is this a checking account?
>>>>
>>>> If so, have you ever reconciled a checkbook against bank statement
>>in the
>>>> old fashioned days, statement against your check register? If not,
>>you
>>>> likely have no clue what to look for. You do not start by "changing
>>an
>>>> amount"! Using GnuCash:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Confirm that there is nothing in either Imbalance or Orphan. If
>>there
>>>> is,
>>>> correct that problem first.
>>>> 2) Look at the statement from the bank. Are there any transactions
>>there
>>>> that have not been entered in GnuCash? << assuming that you can
>>recognize
>>>> these as valid transactions -- otherwise contact your bank to find
>>out
>>>> what
>>>> these were.>>
>>>> 3) Are any checks still outstanding (you wrote them, entered them in
>>>> GnuCash, but not (yet) returned against your account at the bank.
>>THAT is
>>>> why I referred to "old fashioned days" reconciling because you STILL
>>have
>>>> to
>>>> do this to get the same balance amounts.  You EXPECT a difference in
>>the
>>>> balances (you vs bank) for the sum of all uncleared checks.
>>>>
>>>> Michael D Novack
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>

Re: Reconciling an account

[Derek Atkins]

Easy.  Don't mark it reconciled.
Also make sure you enter in the correct statement ending balance.
-derek
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity or typos.

On June 4, 2017 11:07:01 AM EDT, Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>So what do you do if you have entered a cheque before the statement
>date, but it had not been cleared when the bank printed the statement?
>
>Colin
>
>On 4 June 2017 at 14:53, mjchurchill <mjchurc...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Colin, I check the stafting date and balance, then the end date,
>finally the
>> end balance; the end balance chages to match the Gnucash opinion of
>the
>> balance for that date.  If that does not match the statement then
>more work
>> is needed. Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Samsung tablet
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com>
>> Date: 06/04/2017 6:08 AM (GMT-08:00)
>> To stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com
>> Cc gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> Subject Re: Reconciling an account
>>
>>
>> Michael, Do you mean you do not start by setting the ending balance
>in
>> the reconcile opening dialog to that from the statement that you are
>> reconciling against?
>>
>> Colin
>>
>> On 4 June 2017 at 12:29, Mike or Penny Novack
>> <stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com> wrote:
>>> On 6/3/2017 6:51 PM, EngineInstitute wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am having problems reconciling an account. The starting balance
>agrees
>>>> with
>>>> the statement but ending balance does not. OK so I changed the
>ending
>>>> balance to the correct one in the initial dialog box. I then went
>on to
>>>> the
>>>> next task of checking all of the debts and credits. I did that and
>>>> compared
>>>> the sum of the total debt and credit amounts against the statement
>so far
>>>> ok. BUT the ending balance still does not agree even there are no
>>>> additional
>>>> debts logs and one outstanding credit and I cannot close the
>account for
>>>> that period. What am I missing?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>  What kind of account are we talking about? Since you mention
>reconciling
>>> against a statement is this a checking account?
>>>
>>> If so, have you ever reconciled a checkbook against bank statement
>in the
>>> old fashioned days, statement against your check register? If not,
>you
>>> likely have no clue what to look for. You do not start by "changing
>an
>>> amount"! Using GnuCash:
>>>
>>> 1) Confirm that there is nothing in either Imbalance or Orphan. If
>there
>>> is,
>>> correct that problem first.
>>> 2) Look at the statement from the bank. Are there any transactions
>there
>>> that have not been entered in GnuCash? << assuming that you can
>recognize
>>> these as valid transactions -- otherwise contact your bank to find
>out
>>> what
>>> these were.>>
>>> 3) Are any checks still outstanding (you wrote them, entered them in
>>> GnuCash, but not (yet) returned against your account at the bank.
>THAT is
>>> why I referred to "old fashioned days" reconciling because you STILL
>have
>>> to
>>> do this to get the same balance amounts.  You EXPECT a difference in
>the
>>> balances (you vs bank) for the sum of all uncleared checks.
>>>
>>> Michael D Novack
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Colin Law]

So what do you do if you have entered a cheque before the statement
date, but it had not been cleared when the bank printed the statement?

Colin

On 4 June 2017 at 14:53, mjchurchill <mjchurc...@aol.com> wrote:
> Colin, I check the stafting date and balance, then the end date, finally the
> end balance; the end balance chages to match the Gnucash opinion of the
> balance for that date.  If that does not match the statement then more work
> is needed. Mike
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Samsung tablet
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com>
> Date: 06/04/2017 6:08 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com
> Cc gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> Subject Re: Reconciling an account
>
>
> Michael, Do you mean you do not start by setting the ending balance in
> the reconcile opening dialog to that from the statement that you are
> reconciling against?
>
> Colin
>
> On 4 June 2017 at 12:29, Mike or Penny Novack
> <stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com> wrote:
>> On 6/3/2017 6:51 PM, EngineInstitute wrote:
>>>
>>> I am having problems reconciling an account. The starting balance agrees
>>> with
>>> the statement but ending balance does not. OK so I changed the ending
>>> balance to the correct one in the initial dialog box. I then went on to
>>> the
>>> next task of checking all of the debts and credits. I did that and
>>> compared
>>> the sum of the total debt and credit amounts against the statement so far
>>> ok. BUT the ending balance still does not agree even there are no
>>> additional
>>> debts logs and one outstanding credit and I cannot close the account for
>>> that period. What am I missing?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>>  What kind of account are we talking about? Since you mention reconciling
>> against a statement is this a checking account?
>>
>> If so, have you ever reconciled a checkbook against bank statement in the
>> old fashioned days, statement against your check register? If not, you
>> likely have no clue what to look for. You do not start by "changing an
>> amount"! Using GnuCash:
>>
>> 1) Confirm that there is nothing in either Imbalance or Orphan. If there
>> is,
>> correct that problem first.
>> 2) Look at the statement from the bank. Are there any transactions there
>> that have not been entered in GnuCash? << assuming that you can recognize
>> these as valid transactions -- otherwise contact your bank to find out
>> what
>> these were.>>
>> 3) Are any checks still outstanding (you wrote them, entered them in
>> GnuCash, but not (yet) returned against your account at the bank. THAT is
>> why I referred to "old fashioned days" reconciling because you STILL have
>> to
>> do this to get the same balance amounts.  You EXPECT a difference in the
>> balances (you vs bank) for the sum of all uncleared checks.
>>
>> Michael D Novack
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Reconciling an account

[mjchurchill via gnucash-user]

Colin, I check the stafting date and balance, then the end date, finally the 
end balance; the end balance chages to match the Gnucash opinion of the balance 
for that date.  If that does not match the statement then more work is needed. 
Mike




Sent from Samsung tablet

 Original message 
From Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com> 
Date: 06/04/2017  6:08 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com 
Cc gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject Re: Reconciling an account 
 
Michael, Do you mean you do not start by setting the ending balance in
the reconcile opening dialog to that from the statement that you are
reconciling against?

Colin

On 4 June 2017 at 12:29, Mike or Penny Novack
<stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com> wrote:
> On 6/3/2017 6:51 PM, EngineInstitute wrote:
>>
>> I am having problems reconciling an account. The starting balance agrees
>> with
>> the statement but ending balance does not. OK so I changed the ending
>> balance to the correct one in the initial dialog box. I then went on to
>> the
>> next task of checking all of the debts and credits. I did that and
>> compared
>> the sum of the total debt and credit amounts against the statement so far
>> ok. BUT the ending balance still does not agree even there are no
>> additional
>> debts logs and one outstanding credit and I cannot close the account for
>> that period. What am I missing?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>  What kind of account are we talking about? Since you mention reconciling
> against a statement is this a checking account?
>
> If so, have you ever reconciled a checkbook against bank statement in the
> old fashioned days, statement against your check register? If not, you
> likely have no clue what to look for. You do not start by "changing an
> amount"! Using GnuCash:
>
> 1) Confirm that there is nothing in either Imbalance or Orphan. If there is,
> correct that problem first.
> 2) Look at the statement from the bank. Are there any transactions there
> that have not been entered in GnuCash? << assuming that you can recognize
> these as valid transactions -- otherwise contact your bank to find out what
> these were.>>
> 3) Are any checks still outstanding (you wrote them, entered them in
> GnuCash, but not (yet) returned against your account at the bank. THAT is
> why I referred to "old fashioned days" reconciling because you STILL have to
> do this to get the same balance amounts.  You EXPECT a difference in the
> balances (you vs bank) for the sum of all uncleared checks.
>
> Michael D Novack
>
>
>
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Mike or Penny Novack]

On 6/3/2017 6:51 PM, EngineInstitute wrote:

I am having problems reconciling an account. The starting balance agrees with
the statement but ending balance does not. OK so I changed the ending
balance to the correct one in the initial dialog box. I then went on to the
next task of checking all of the debts and credits. I did that and compared
the sum of the total debt and credit amounts against the statement so far
ok. BUT the ending balance still does not agree even there are no additional
debts logs and one outstanding credit and I cannot close the account for
that period. What am I missing?

Thanks.
 What kind of account are we talking about? Since you mention 
reconciling against a statement is this a checking account?


If so, have you ever reconciled a checkbook against bank statement in 
the old fashioned days, statement against your check register? If not, 
you likely have no clue what to look for. You do not start by "changing 
an amount"! Using GnuCash:


1) Confirm that there is nothing in either Imbalance or Orphan. If there 
is, correct that problem first.
2) Look at the statement from the bank. Are there any transactions there 
that have not been entered in GnuCash? << assuming that you can 
recognize these as valid transactions -- otherwise contact your bank to 
find out what these were.>>
3) Are any checks still outstanding (you wrote them, entered them in 
GnuCash, but not (yet) returned against your account at the bank. THAT 
is why I referred to "old fashioned days" reconciling because you STILL 
have to do this to get the same balance amounts.  You EXPECT a 
difference in the balances (you vs bank) for the sum of all uncleared 
checks.


Michael D Novack


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Re: Reconciling an account

[Liz]

On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 08:28:04 +0100
Colin Law  wrote:

> Chris
> If the reconcile window shows the same starting balance as your
> statement does and you have set the ending balance to that from the
> statement then after you tick off all the transactions from the
> statement then you should end up with a reconcile difference of zero.
> If you don't get zero then probably one of the items you have ticked
> off is not the same as on the balance. Probably the amounts on the
> statement and in the reconcile window differ in one of the digits and
> you have not noticed when you tick them off, this has happened to me a
> number of times, it is easy to tick it off without noticing a minor
> difference.  Double check all the values and you will probably find
> the difference.
> 
> Colin


When I get a mistake in a reconciliation I do very small bits of the
statement at a time. You don't have to do a month at once - you can do
any fragment, as long as it starts at the earliest entry on your
statement.
Add in some of the other tips, like printing out the statement and
marking the paper as you go, and you should be able to find where your
records and the bank's differ.

This is the point of reconciliation, to find if you agree, and if not
why not. The error could be either yours or the bank's, so it is worth
finding the source of the problem.

Liz
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Re: Reconciling an account

[Colin Law]

Chris
If the reconcile window shows the same starting balance as your
statement does and you have set the ending balance to that from the
statement then after you tick off all the transactions from the
statement then you should end up with a reconcile difference of zero.
If you don't get zero then probably one of the items you have ticked
off is not the same as on the balance. Probably the amounts on the
statement and in the reconcile window differ in one of the digits and
you have not noticed when you tick them off, this has happened to me a
number of times, it is easy to tick it off without noticing a minor
difference.  Double check all the values and you will probably find
the difference.

Colin

On 3 June 2017 at 23:51, EngineInstitute  wrote:
> I am having problems reconciling an account. The starting balance agrees with
> the statement but ending balance does not. OK so I changed the ending
> balance to the correct one in the initial dialog box. I then went on to the
> next task of checking all of the debts and credits. I did that and compared
> the sum of the total debt and credit amounts against the statement so far
> ok. BUT the ending balance still does not agree even there are no additional
> debts logs and one outstanding credit and I cannot close the account for
> that period. What am I missing?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -
> China Blue
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993.html
> Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Reconciling an account

[David T. via gnucash-user]

John, 
That sounds way more complicated than using the reconcile feature in Gnucash 
and following the guidance in the concept guide at chapter 4.4 & 5.4.
When I reconcile using this method, I click reconcile, I select the correct 
ending date, adjust the closing balance to match the statement. Then, I check 
off the debits and credits that match. Usually, when I have checked off what is 
in the statement, everything matches, and I am done. That is very 
straightforward. 
China, if you have done all this and things don't match, I would double check 
that there aren't errors in your transactions. 
David

 
 
  On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 8:07, John Walker wrote:   Hi 
China Blue

This particular issue baffled me for some time until I came up with a 
process that tells me what to expect.  My GnuAccount opening balance 
hardly ever is the starting balance in the relevant statement because 
inputs and outputs from previous statements as well as the current 
statement are not always fully accounted for (pardon the pun).

Here is the process:

*To reconcile Credit Card, GnuCash vs Bank:*

1.Copy LAST entry in Gnucash before entries that are being reconciled 
i.e. last reconciled entry

2.ADD New Transactions and Charges (not closing balance) from current 
bank statement

3.SUBTRACT payments/Refunds from bank statement

4.Result should be the same as LAST entry being currently reconciled in 
GnuCash

5.If there is a difference, subtract actual entry in GnuCash from 
calculated entry

6.This is the value that needs to be found – it should either be an 
incorrectly made entry or a missing/extra entry or a combination

7.Easy way to check is to print statement and hand tick on paper

Cheers
Phantom


On 4/06/2017 10:08 AM, Michael via gnucash-user wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 15:51:01 -0700 (PDT)
> EngineInstitute  wrote:
>
>> I am having problems reconciling an account. The starting balance
>> agrees with the statement but ending balance does not. OK so I
>> changed the ending balance to the correct one in the initial dialog
>> box. I then went on to the next task of checking all of the debts and
>> credits. I did that and compared the sum of the total debt and credit
>> amounts against the statement so far ok. BUT the ending balance still
>> does not agree even there are no additional debts logs and one
>> outstanding credit and I cannot close the account for that period.
>> What am I missing?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> China Blue
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993.html
>> Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ___ gnucash-user mailing
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>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> Did you adjust the closing date on the reconcile window to match your
> statement, rather than adjust the closing amount?  With the correct
> date, you should get the right amount, unless you have additional
> transactions or interest that have not been entered in gnucash.
> Otherwise not sure what else it could be.  Mike
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Re: Reconciling an account

[John Walker]

Hi China Blue

This particular issue baffled me for some time until I came up with a 
process that tells me what to expect.  My GnuAccount opening balance 
hardly ever is the starting balance in the relevant statement because 
inputs and outputs from previous statements as well as the current 
statement are not always fully accounted for (pardon the pun).


Here is the process:

*To reconcile Credit Card, GnuCash vs Bank:*

1.Copy LAST entry in Gnucash before entries that are being reconciled 
i.e. last reconciled entry


2.ADD New Transactions and Charges (not closing balance) from current 
bank statement


3.SUBTRACT payments/Refunds from bank statement

4.Result should be the same as LAST entry being currently reconciled in 
GnuCash


5.If there is a difference, subtract actual entry in GnuCash from 
calculated entry


6.This is the value that needs to be found – it should either be an 
incorrectly made entry or a missing/extra entry or a combination


7.Easy way to check is to print statement and hand tick on paper

Cheers
Phantom


On 4/06/2017 10:08 AM, Michael via gnucash-user wrote:

On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 15:51:01 -0700 (PDT)
EngineInstitute  wrote:


I am having problems reconciling an account. The starting balance
agrees with the statement but ending balance does not. OK so I
changed the ending balance to the correct one in the initial dialog
box. I then went on to the next task of checking all of the debts and
credits. I did that and compared the sum of the total debt and credit
amounts against the statement so far ok. BUT the ending balance still
does not agree even there are no additional debts logs and one
outstanding credit and I cannot close the account for that period.
What am I missing?

Thanks.



-
China Blue
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View this message in context:
http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Reconciling-an-account-tp4691993.html
Sent from the GnuCash - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Did you adjust the closing date on the reconcile window to match your
statement, rather than adjust the closing amount?  With the correct
date, you should get the right amount, unless you have additional
transactions or interest that have not been entered in gnucash.
Otherwise not sure what else it could be.  Mike
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