Re: loan account issue

[DaveC49]

The bank considers its loan to you as an asset, the fees and interest charges
to the loan account are income to the bank, so the offset account for the
bank for these transactions is an income account. These transactionsto the
asset :loan account of the bank will increase the value of their asset, i.e.
they will be debits.

Your payments to the bank on the other hand decrease the value of one asset
of theirs, their loan to you, and increase the value of of another asset of
theirs, their cash holdings. As these decrease their asset they will be
credits to that account

Their statement to you only contains the parts (splits in Gnucash parlance)
of these transactions that affect their  asset account for the loan to you.
Using the values for 1 Aug, the transactions in the bank's acconts look
like:
  Debit  | 
Credit
  
--
Asset:Loan   68.40|
Income:Fees & Interest |68.40
Asset:Loan  2392.66 |
Income:Fees   |2392.66
Asset:Loan   |   
3936.94
Asset:Cash 3936.94  |

In your hands, the same loan is recorded as a Liability and the Fees and
Interest charges increase your liability. An increase in a Liability account
is recorded in a split with a credit to that account and a corresponding
debit to your Expense account for Fees and Interest. 

Your loan payment decreases your Liability to the bank, i.e. it is a debit
to that liability account, but decreases your cash in your bank account
asset, i.e. it is a credit to that account in your accounts. Using the same
transactions for 1 Aug you should see in your accounts after importing into
the Loan:Liability account ( note you will have to select the
Expense:Fees and Asset:Bank:Cash accounts as the transfer accounts
for each component while importing.

Debit   |
Credit

-
Liability:Loan   |  
68.40
Expense:Fees68.40 |
Liability:Loan   |   2392.66
Expense:Fees2392.66 |
Liability:Loan  3936.94 |
Asset:Bank:Cash |   3936.94

If the QIF does not import as above, I would compare the QIF files for an
import of your bank savings/cheque account with the QIF file for the loan
above and check the signs associated with deposits and withdrawals from your
savings/cheque account. For the bank your savings/cheque account is a
Liability. I would expect that your deposits should appear as positive
amounts and your withdrawals should be negative amounts in the QIF file (see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicken_Interchange_Format) for
yoursaving/cheque accoount statement/QIF file if the bank is following this
format. 

Correspondingly for the loan account QIF file, the fees and interest should
be positive(or unsigned) and payments should be negative in the QIF as they
appear in your statement.

Hope this helps sort this problem for you rather than confusing the issue
further.


David Cousens.



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David Cousens
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Re: loan account issue

[David Carlson]

Your problem arises often.  Sometimes it is not even handled correctly by
the financial institution.  In the QIF import the same transaction will be
reversed when it is imported into the loan account compared to when it is
imported into the bank account IIRC.

I did not take Accounting in college, and never had to get the answer
correct on a final exam so I prefer to have GnuCash set to use informal
accounting labels instead of the the formal Debit/Credit.  Then I can see
the loan balance decrease as it is paid off.  Of course, the loan account
is of the Liability type in GnuCash.

So, to answer your first question, I would say source and destination in
QIF imports are not the same as Debit and Credit, and source and
destination are reversed when the transaction is imported into a loan
account, but the sign in the amount should not be reversed to reflect that,
because the loan account type should cause the (source/Destination)
reversal, leaving Debit and Credit the same.

The answer to your second question is that Cash Flow and Profit/Loss are
not the same, so they will not look the same in reports.



On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 4:56 AM, lebyarules via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> hi all
>
> i have a very similar issue to a previous poster when i import my bank
> statement all is fine, but importing a loan account statement and dr and cr
> are reversed. so any payment towards the loan results in a bigger loan. i
> know i could just manually change them but i just wanted to confirm a few
> things. what is the destination account for importing loan transactions? my
> banks statement shows the principal, interest, and bank fees. is the
> destination account meant to be liabilities-loan or assets-bank? secondly,
> if i send interest to expense-bank interest, then this affects my cash flow
> or profit/loss. im not paying the interest pm its just added back onto my
> total loan amount so nothing is deducted from my asset-bank.
>
> example from my bank loan statement:
> 01Jul2017   PAYMENT - THANK YOU -3982.55
> 31Jul2017   ADMIN FEE   68.4
> 01Aug2017 INTEREST  2392.66
> 01Aug2017 PAYMENT - THANK YOU   -3936.94
> 31Aug2017 ADMIN FEE 68.4
> 01Sep2017 INTEREST  2336.44
>
>
> any advice would be appreciated for the setup.
> thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: loan account issue

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

lebyarules via gnucash-user  writes:

> hi all
>
> i have a very similar issue to a previous poster when i import my bank
> statement all is fine, but importing a loan account statement and dr and cr
> are reversed. so any payment towards the loan results in a bigger loan. i
> know i could just manually change them but i just wanted to confirm a few
> things. what is the destination account for importing loan transactions? my
> banks statement shows the principal, interest, and bank fees. is the
> destination account meant to be liabilities-loan or assets-bank? secondly,
> if i send interest to expense-bank interest, then this affects my cash flow
> or profit/loss. im not paying the interest pm its just added back onto my
> total loan amount so nothing is deducted from my asset-bank.
>
> example from my bank loan statement:
> 01Jul2017 PAYMENT - THANK YOU -3982.55
> 31Jul2017 ADMIN FEE   68.4
> 01Aug2017 INTEREST2392.66
> 01Aug2017 PAYMENT - THANK YOU -3936.94
> 31Aug2017 ADMIN FEE   68.4
> 01Sep2017 INTEREST2336.44

Could you show the QIF that created the "inverted" splits?

I'm not 100% sure how to read this statement (specifically, I'm not sure
what to do with the Admin Fee).  For a STANDARD loan the payment
transaction looks like:

   Asset:Bank:CheckingCredit 3936.94
   Liability:Loan:Princ   Debit  1544.29
   Expenses:Loan:Interest Debit  2392.65

> any advice would be appreciated for the setup. 
> thanks

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
   Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
   URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
   warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
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