Re: p2x modelling in gnc, help me think, please

[Wm via gnucash-user]

On 07/02/2018 18:17, Adrien Monteleone wrote:


Go to Preferences > General > Numbers. You can increase your decimal precision. 
Did that solve the small fraction issue?


That isn't a good way to go if your base currency is a 2 decimal one. 
Creating a commodity with the appropriate number of decimals and using 
that is better.


By chance there is another more recent but simpler thread

===
Subject: How to Manually Track a Collection of Stocks & Stuff Combined 
into a Single Share

===

it is the same basic problem.  "put the other leg in equity" doesn't 
work for me and the variance is actually the value not the price which 
is what makes them different to traded investments which gnc deals with 
well as you can just put the the date and price in for market traded things.



As for modeling the investment, I’m not familiar with p2x. I’ll let someone 
else chime in who is.

On that note, I tried looking it up but didn’t come up with anything useful 
explaining it. Do you have a few info links I could pour over? Once I 
understand what it is, I might be able to help modeling it in Gnucash.

The only related thing I found was Peer-to-Peer lending but that didn’t involve 
negative interest rates as far as I could tell.


peer to peer is now p2x in common terms because the second peer is no 
longer an individual in most cases and almost all lending goes through 
an intermediary.  very few actual p2p transactions happen.


the lending can now involve: personal loans (how it started), mortgages, 
agriculture loans, 3rd world specific investments, invoice factoring, 
business loans, pawnbroking, etc and possibly some other stuff you and I 
probably don't want to know about or get involved in :)  I stick to 
reliable exchanges.


Perhaps I should have left out the word "interest" if it is confusing. 
A non zero return occurs if you buy an interest bearing instrument at 
anything other than par.  You are buying someone else's interest (a 
premium) or getting some of their interest because they don't want the 
risk of the principle (a discount).  There are loads of other reasons 
for buying and selling, of course.


The point is interest and other returns are *traded* and I'm not finding 
it obvious how to do this in gnc as part of a composite tx.


gnc likes simple investment returns

one leg asset receiving
one leg income to balance
third leg asset to join them up

or similar.

Maybe I should change the way I work so that I produce 3 tx per month

asset change
income
and the one gnc wants

I'm certain my tx is right in accounting terms but somehow it isn't 
being  "seen" by gnc for what it is.


Anyway, it has been useful to me to explain so no harm done.  Who knows 
I may wake up with the answer tomorrow, I am certainly closer in my own 
mind.


--
Wm

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Re: p2x modelling in gnc, help me think, please

[Adrien Monteleone]

Go to Preferences > General > Numbers. You can increase your decimal precision. 
Did that solve the small fraction issue?

As for modeling the investment, I’m not familiar with p2x. I’ll let someone 
else chime in who is.

On that note, I tried looking it up but didn’t come up with anything useful 
explaining it. Do you have a few info links I could pour over? Once I 
understand what it is, I might be able to help modeling it in Gnucash.

The only related thing I found was Peer-to-Peer lending but that didn’t involve 
negative interest rates as far as I could tell.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Feb 6, 2018, at 4:14 AM, Wm via gnucash-user  
> wrote:
> 
> Background: I am a p2x investor, I like it, it is fun and may do some good to 
> far away people and get me a better return on my money than more conventional 
> investments ... or I could lose it all.  Ho hum.
> 
> the gnc point is how best to model a p2x investment.
> 
> my p2x investments involve hundreds of fractional (or more than 2 decimal) 
> transactions a month,  gnc doesn't like dealing with 0.0001 EUR because gnc 
> takes the view than an EUR is meant to be used in chunks of 9.99 and it is 
> sort of right because there isn't a smaller unit of an EUR than a cent in 
> coins and paper.
> 
> Detail: I run the actual p2x transactions through ledger-cli and get that to 
> produce a journal per month (or whenever I'm interested) that I then enter 
> into gnc, this works well in accounting terms but fails because gnc doesn't 
> see the p2x asset as an investment for reporting purposes.
> 
> I thought the solution would be to make the asset account where the actual 
> bonds live a Mutual Fund with a security of its own equivalent to 1GBP or 
> 1EUR etc as appropriate but that didn't work because the interest doesn't get 
> recognised (possibly because I'm presenting the income as part of a tx with 8 
> splits to reflect the real world).
> 
> My understanding (which I now think might be broken) of how gnc works out 
> what is an investment or not then fell apart.
> 
> In summary:
> 
> my modelling of p2x in gnc isn't working out as I expected.
> 
> how are other people dealing with similar modern or unconventional 
> investments ?
> 
> is the concept of negative interest income really that unusual (it happens 
> all the time in real markets so why don't gnc reports know about it ?)
> 
> maybe I'm behaving stupidly and I just need a clue <-- let's hope it is this 
> :)
> 
> -- 
> Wm
> 
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p2x modelling in gnc, help me think, please

[Wm via gnucash-user]

Background: I am a p2x investor, I like it, it is fun and may do some 
good to far away people and get me a better return on my money than more 
conventional investments ... or I could lose it all.  Ho hum.


the gnc point is how best to model a p2x investment.

my p2x investments involve hundreds of fractional (or more than 2 
decimal) transactions a month,  gnc doesn't like dealing with 0.0001 EUR 
because gnc takes the view than an EUR is meant to be used in chunks of 
9.99 and it is sort of right because there isn't a smaller unit of an 
EUR than a cent in coins and paper.


Detail: I run the actual p2x transactions through ledger-cli and get 
that to produce a journal per month (or whenever I'm interested) that I 
then enter into gnc, this works well in accounting terms but fails 
because gnc doesn't see the p2x asset as an investment for reporting 
purposes.


I thought the solution would be to make the asset account where the 
actual bonds live a Mutual Fund with a security of its own equivalent to 
1GBP or 1EUR etc as appropriate but that didn't work because the 
interest doesn't get recognised (possibly because I'm presenting the 
income as part of a tx with 8 splits to reflect the real world).


My understanding (which I now think might be broken) of how gnc works 
out what is an investment or not then fell apart.


In summary:

my modelling of p2x in gnc isn't working out as I expected.

how are other people dealing with similar modern or unconventional 
investments ?


is the concept of negative interest income really that unusual (it 
happens all the time in real markets so why don't gnc reports know about 
it ?)


maybe I'm behaving stupidly and I just need a clue <-- let's hope it is 
this :)


--
Wm

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