Re: a new free smime service, but...

2019-10-23 Thread Ralph Seichter
* Steffen Nurpmeso:

> > * Steffen Nurpmeso:
> > > I think it is common that S/MIME and SSL certificates are delivered
> > > via PKCS12, including the private key. You then seem to extract the
> > > individual things [...]
> >
> > Nope, that is the wrong way round. [...]
>
> Ok, but that is exactly what i have written a few lines later for the
> CACert example that i posted, right. So not nope, Mr.

What you describe in the "I think..." paragraph is *not* the common way
to deliver certificates. Hence, nope.

-Ralph

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Re: a new free smime service, but...

2019-10-23 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Hello,

sorry for the late reply.

Ralph Seichter wrote in <87pninuqns@wedjat.horus-it.com>:
 |* Steffen Nurpmeso:
 |> I think it is common that S/MIME and SSL certificates are delivered
 |> via PKCS12, including the private key. You then seem to extract the
 |> individual things [...]
 |
 |Nope, that is the wrong way round. The correct sequence to obtain an
 |S/MIME certificate is as follows:
 |
 |1. User X creates a private key *locally*. This private key must never
 |be handed to anybody else.
 |
 |2. User X creates a certificate signing request (CSR) and sends it to a
 |certificate authority (CA).
 |
 |3. The CA uses the CSR to create a signed certificate, and sends that
 |certificate back to user X.

Ok, but that is exactly what i have written a few lines later for
the CACert example that i posted, right.  So not nope, Mr.
Where "user X" meant "browser of user X" when i did so for
a StartSSL certificate.  I assume it did the right thing.  But
i do not know.

 |4. User X can then optionally combine private key and signed certificate
 |in a .p12 file to ease importing the data *locally* in his MUA (it is
 |usually more convenient to deal with a single file that combines both
 |private key and certificate).
 |
 |If the process is altered in any way in which a third party gets hold of
 |user X's private key, security is broken, no matter if the private key
 |is password protected or not.

That is surely right.

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter   he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

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Re: a new free smime service, but...

2019-10-23 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
P.S.:

Steffen Nurpmeso wrote in <20191023224323.kaodd%stef...@sdaoden.eu>:
  ...
 ||> I think it is common that S/MIME and SSL certificates are
 ||> delivered via PKCS12, including the private key.  You then seem to
 ||> extract the individual things like
 ||
 ||I think this is a severe security breach. The private key should never
 ||leave your computer.

(Yes.)

 ||>   $ openssl pkcs12 -in cert.p12 -out certpem.pem -clcerts -nodes
 ||>   $ # Alternatively
 ||>   $ openssl pkcs12 -in cert.p12 -out cert.pem -clcerts -nokeys
 ||>   $ openssl pkcs12 -in cert.p12 -out key.pem -nocerts -nodes
 ||
 ||>|keys are generated on the subscriber's device and only the public key
 ||>|goes to the CA to be certified.
 |
 |With StartSSL it was like that, the browser generated the signing
 |request i hope.  But i do not know.
 |
 |And, the above i inherited in the manual of the software
 |i maintain.  I have not seen this in the wild on my own.

This is actually only half true.  The original manual only
contains the first of the three.

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter   he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

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Re: a new free smime service, but...

2019-10-23 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Hello,

please excuse the late reply.

Uwe Brauer via Gnupg-users wrote in <874kzz1var@mat.ucm.es>:
 |> MFPA via Gnupg-users wrote in <1171562612.20191022004056@my_localhost_AR\
 |> >:
 |>|On Sunday 20 October 2019 at 3:20:41 PM, in
 |>|, Uwe Brauer via Gnupg-users wrote:-
 |>|
 |>|> I just found that
 |>|> https://extrassl.actalis.it/portal/uapub/doProcess
 |>|
 |>|> Provides a free smime certificate.
 |>  ...
 |>|> does somebody know whether there is a security
 |>|> breach, the way this
 |>|> certificate was generated?
 |>|
 |>|I'm no expert but their Certificate Policy reads to me that the
 |>|private key is compromised right from the start. I think usually the
 |
 |> I think it is common that S/MIME and SSL certificates are
 |> delivered via PKCS12, including the private key.  You then seem to
 |> extract the individual things like
 |
 |I think this is a severe security breach. The private key should never
 |leave your computer.
 |
 |>   $ openssl pkcs12 -in cert.p12 -out certpem.pem -clcerts -nodes
 |>   $ # Alternatively
 |>   $ openssl pkcs12 -in cert.p12 -out cert.pem -clcerts -nokeys
 |>   $ openssl pkcs12 -in cert.p12 -out key.pem -nocerts -nodes
 |
 |>|keys are generated on the subscriber's device and only the public key
 |>|goes to the CA to be certified.

With StartSSL it was like that, the browser generated the signing
request i hope.  But i do not know.

And, the above i inherited in the manual of the software
i maintain.  I have not seen this in the wild on my own.

 |> This is possible via CACert.org, at least still (out of money).
 |> You create your local signing request, and the private key.pem never
 |> leaves your own box:
 |
 |>   $ openssl req -nodes -newkey rsa:4096 -keyout key.pem -out creq.pem
 |
 |> (Ensure all email addresses of desire are included in the web
 |> form.)
 |> Unfortunate that besides Comodo there seems no other provider of
 |> free S/MIME certificates.  You can only self-sign, and provide

That i have done myself.

 |Comodo does not offer this any more. At the beginning of the year they
 |reduced the smime cerificates validity from 1 year to 1 month, now they
 |withdraw it all together.

I did not know that.  It was the only free service that i found
when i searched for a free S/MIME certificate last, but i kept
using CACert.org.  (Until i support PGP, when i will switch.)

 |> a safe transport for a certificate to compare with.  Which is why
 |> PGP is so nice.
 |
 |Well yes sort of, but I can tell you from my own experience PGP is more for
 |hackers while smime is not. I have convinced 6 of my friends to use
 |smime, but only one to pgp.
 |
 |Self signed smime certificates are basically useless, because then you
 |have to tell the other user either to install a root certificate or to
 |trust the certificate, in which case smime looses its convenience
 |(compared to pgp)

Well, hm, yes.  What should i say.  It depends a bit, once you
know a certificate is correct some software allow to just agree to
the checksum of a certificate, for example, no need for a root
certificate no more.  To know it is correct you need the
certificate which signed it in what you use as your local pool of
certificate authorities, of course.

I do have GPG keys in may keyring which were not signed by anyone
(when i downloaded them), too, i saw the fingerprint in some
announcement mail or on some website, searched SKS, and downloaded
the one key which did match.  (I think Postfix releases are still
shipped with a gpg1 key sign that is revoked, last i looked,
i always have to look how i can actually use a revoked key
nonetheless.)

Personally i like S/MIME more, because it comes from the same pool
of standards etc. that TLS uses, and the same library can be used
to deal with it, than what i use for TLS anyway.  In theory file
signing and all the other things would be possible via it, too,
the primitives are there, it is just not used in that there are no
omnipresent tools available, like GPG is.

There is no other reason really, except that for mail different
standards for MIME are used, and here i like the PGP one more ;)
That is just how it is, and having said that, i do use PGP since
many years, but only very rarely and mostly automatized (after
having had immense loss due to lost passwords of encrypted
backups).

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter   he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

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Re: a new free smime service, but...

2019-10-23 Thread Ralph Seichter
* Steffen Nurpmeso:

> I think it is common that S/MIME and SSL certificates are delivered
> via PKCS12, including the private key. You then seem to extract the
> individual things [...]

Nope, that is the wrong way round. The correct sequence to obtain an
S/MIME certificate is as follows:

1. User X creates a private key *locally*. This private key must never
be handed to anybody else.

2. User X creates a certificate signing request (CSR) and sends it to a
certificate authority (CA).

3. The CA uses the CSR to create a signed certificate, and sends that
certificate back to user X.

4. User X can then optionally combine private key and signed certificate
in a .p12 file to ease importing the data *locally* in his MUA (it is
usually more convenient to deal with a single file that combines both
private key and certificate).

If the process is altered in any way in which a third party gets hold of
user X's private key, security is broken, no matter if the private key
is password protected or not.

-Ralph

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Re: Should gpg try to connect to TCP/993?

2019-10-23 Thread Bjarni Runar Einarsson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hello!

Mikhail Morfikov  wrote:
> Let's assume you are right, and it's because of the way the
> linux works.
> 
> When I clear the conntrack table, the following messages appear
[...]
> So it's an ACK packet (possibly one per already opened
> connection, since src ports differ), and not SYN. So it's not a
> new connection for sure.
[...]
> But in the case of gpg,
> there's no entry that would match anything that was printed
> above. So will this match to your idea?

I think yes, it does. The assumption here is that gpg inherits
the file descriptor after the connection is opened - so the SYN
is already sent and recorded as having come from Thunderbird.

The other assumption is that the firewalling systems are confused
about which process owns the packets, because after the
fork()/exec() there are actually two possibilities. Without
keeping expensive historic state about which process *created*
the connection, it's impossible for the kernel to know which is
the owner and some connections will get misreported.

All pretty plausible, no?

> > Each active TCP/IP connection has an open file descriptor. So, if
> > Enigmail's gpg launcher hasn't taken care to close unneeded file
> > descriptors after fork() and before exec()
[...]
> Should the `Enigmail's gpg launcher` take care of that? Maybe
> is a bug or something?

IMO, yes, if this is what is going on it is almost certainly a
bug. Whatever code is calling exec() should be closing file
descriptors first. Not doing so can lead to all sorts of wasted
resources and even deadlocks if processes depend on file
descriptors getting properly closed in a timely fashion.

> > Since gpg doesn't actually know anything about these connections,
> > it likely won't close them, they'll stay open (potentially even
> > after Thunderbird has closed them, although that doesn't match
> > all the symptoms you've described).
> So what doesn't match the symptoms I've described? Maybe I have
> to pay attention to certain things, and than it will match.

Since (I think) Enigmail's gpg processes are usually short-lived,
you're unlikely to see this happen, and if it does it's likely to
be harmless. If the gpg processes were long-lived, it could over
time lead to resource exhaustion (running out of file descriptors
or RAM).

The symptoms that didn't match this, was that Thunderbird was
unable to download mail. If this was *only* happening with
connections that Thunderbird thought it had closed, then your
firewall rules wouldn't have impacted TB's operations.

Again, I'll stress that this is all educated guesswork. But the
symptoms match. I've created bugs like this myself in the past.
Of course, maybe GnuPG does like to connect to port 993. I
haven't ruled that out, but if that were the case, you'd probably
have seen SYN packets in your logs. :-D

 - Bjarni

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Re: Should gpg try to connect to TCP/993?

2019-10-23 Thread Mikhail Morfikov via Gnupg-users
Let's assume you are right, and it's because of the way the linux works.

When I clear the conntrack table, the following messages appear in the FW log
(I don't block the gpg packets for now, just log and accept them in its rule):

  Oct 23 17:59:14 morfikownia kernel: * gpg * IN= OUT=bond0 \
   SRC=192.168.1.150 DST=64.233.165.108 LEN=82 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 
ID=63468 DF PROTO=TCP \
   SPT=41414 DPT=993 SEQ=50635057 ACK=2111326021 WINDOW=501 RES=0x00 ACK PSH 
URGP=0 \
   OPT (0101080A1268C9EA725E3175) UID=1000 GID=1000
  Oct 23 17:59:14 morfikownia kernel: * gpg * IN= OUT=bond0 \
   SRC=192.168.1.150 DST=64.233.165.108 LEN=86 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 
ID=29858 DF PROTO=TCP \
   SPT=41416 DPT=993 SEQ=4217185545 ACK=3828226663 WINDOW=501 RES=0x00 ACK PSH 
URGP=0 \
   OPT (0101080A1268CA10E67D9F27) UID=1000 GID=1000
  Oct 23 17:59:14 morfikownia kernel: * gpg * IN= OUT=bond0 \
   SRC=192.168.1.150 DST=64.233.165.108 LEN=84 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 
ID=35167 DF PROTO=TCP \
   SPT=41510 DPT=993 SEQ=2292653331 ACK=2720180704 WINDOW=501 RES=0x00 ACK PSH 
URGP=0 \
   OPT (0101080A1268CAFEB48EC039) UID=1000 GID=1000

So it's an ACK packet (possibly one per already opened connection, since 
src ports differ), and not SYN. So it's not a new connection for sure. 
Also, someone once gave me the following audit rule:

  -a exit,always -F arch=b64 -S connect -k MYCONNECT

to find what actually is trying to connect to the net. Each time I see some
blocked OUTPUT packets in the FW logs, I usually run `audit` to find out what
that might be. In all cases so far, in the audit log I was able to match the
dst IP or dst port that I saw in the FW logs. But in the case of gpg, there's
no entry that would match anything that was printed above. So will this match to
your idea?


> The way processes are spawned on Unix, fork()/exec() will by
> default inherit open file descriptors. Thunderbird/Enigmail will
> fork()/exec() to launch gpg.
> 
> Each active TCP/IP connection has an open file descriptor. So, if
> Enigmail's gpg launcher hasn't taken care to close unneeded file
> descriptors after fork() and before exec(), gpg will inherit the
> connections Thunderbird had open at the time of invocation.
Should the `Enigmail's gpg launcher` take care of that? Maybe is a 
bug or something?

> Since gpg doesn't actually know anything about these connections,
> it likely won't close them, they'll stay open (potentially even
> after Thunderbird has closed them, although that doesn't match
> all the symptoms you've described).
So what doesn't match the symptoms I've described? Maybe I have to
pay attention to certain things, and than it will match.



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Re: Should gpg try to connect to TCP/993?

2019-10-23 Thread Bjarni Runar Einarsson
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Hi Mikhail,

What follows is an educated guess, but only a guess...

Mikhail Morfikov via Gnupg-users  wrote:
> gpg wants to connect to the network, but it looks like it wants
> also TCP/993 (IMAPS). This happens when I use Thunderbird as a
> mail clinet + Enigmail extension, which make some use of gpg.
...
> doesn't show anything that points to gpg. When I prevent gpg
> from connecting to this port, I can't access my mail account in
> Thunderbird -- it just tries to refresh the inbox, but it just
> stalls. When I restart Thunderbird at this point, then
> everything backs to normal, and I don't see any drops in OUTPUT
> traffic. Could anyone explain what's going on here?

The way processes are spawned on Unix, fork()/exec() will by
default inherit open file descriptors. Thunderbird/Enigmail will
fork()/exec() to launch gpg.

Each active TCP/IP connection has an open file descriptor. So, if
Enigmail's gpg launcher hasn't taken care to close unneeded file
descriptors after fork() and before exec(), gpg will inherit the
connections Thunderbird had open at the time of invocation.

Since gpg doesn't actually know anything about these connections,
it likely won't close them, they'll stay open (potentially even
after Thunderbird has closed them, although that doesn't match
all the symptoms you've described).

If your firewall then sends RST packets to close connections
which gpg isn't supposed to be making, it will actually be
shutting down the connections Thunderbird was using and you won't
be able to access your mail.

(This scenario matches what you have described, but I haven't
reproduced your problem to verify it is indeed the case.)

Hope this helps!
 - Bjarni

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Re: a new free smime service, but...

2019-10-23 Thread Uwe Brauer via Gnupg-users

   > MFPA via Gnupg-users wrote in <1171562612.20191022004056@my_localhost_AR>:
   >  |On Sunday 20 October 2019 at 3:20:41 PM, in
   >  |, Uwe Brauer via Gnupg-users wrote:-
   >  |
   >  |> I just found that
   >  |> https://extrassl.actalis.it/portal/uapub/doProcess
   >  |
   >  |> Provides a free smime certificate.
   >  ...
   >  |> does somebody know whether there is a security
   >  |> breach, the way this
   >  |> certificate was generated?
   >  |
   >  |I'm no expert but their Certificate Policy reads to me that the
   >  |private key is compromised right from the start. I think usually the

   > I think it is common that S/MIME and SSL certificates are
   > delivered via PKCS12, including the private key.  You then seem to
   > extract the individual things like


I think this is a severe security breach. The private key should never
leave your computer.

   >   $ openssl pkcs12 -in cert.p12 -out certpem.pem -clcerts -nodes
   >   $ # Alternatively
   >   $ openssl pkcs12 -in cert.p12 -out cert.pem -clcerts -nokeys
   >   $ openssl pkcs12 -in cert.p12 -out key.pem -nocerts -nodes

   >  |keys are generated on the subscriber's device and only the public key
   >  |goes to the CA to be certified.

   > This is possible via CACert.org, at least still (out of money).
   > You create your local signing request, and the private key.pem never
   > leaves your own box:

   >   $ openssl req -nodes -newkey rsa:4096 -keyout key.pem -out creq.pem

   > (Ensure all email addresses of desire are included in the web
   > form.)
   > Unfortunate that besides Comodo there seems no other provider of
   > free S/MIME certificates.  You can only self-sign, and provide

Comodo does not offer this any more. At the beginning of the year they
reduced the smime cerificates validity from 1 year to 1 month, now they
withdraw it all together.


   > a safe transport for a certificate to compare with.  Which is why
   > PGP is so nice.

Well yes sort of, but I can tell you from my own experience PGP is more for
hackers while smime is not. I have convinced 6 of my friends to use
smime, but only one to pgp.

Self signed smime certificates are basically useless, because then you
have to tell the other user either to install a root certificate or to
trust the certificate, in which case smime looses its convenience
(compared to pgp)


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Re: a new free smime service, but...

2019-10-23 Thread Uwe Brauer via Gnupg-users

> Hi
> On Sunday 20 October 2019 at 3:20:41 PM, in
> , Uwe Brauer via Gnupg-users wrote:-




> [...]


> I'm no expert but their Certificate Policy reads to me that the
> private key is compromised right from the start. I think usually the
> keys are generated on the subscriber's device and only the public key
> goes to the CA to be certified.
> https://www.actalis.it/documenti-it/caact-free-s-mime-certificates-policy.aspx

> 3.2.2 Proving possession of private key

> The private cryptographic key corresponding to the public key
> within the certificate is generated by the CA (with a suitable
> algorithm, size, etc.) and subsequently sent to the subscriberin
> PKCS#12 for-mat[PFX], via email, thereby insuring that the
> subscriber does possess the private key.The password needed to
> import the PKCS#12 file isprovided to the subscriber out-of-band
> (via web), therefore protecting it from unwanted disclosure to
> third parties. The CA does not retain such pass-word, so that the
> legitimate subscriber –assuming that he/she keeps such password
> confidential –remains the only person able to import the PKCS#12.


Oops this is really bad. I should have read this. Thanks for pointing it
out. I am wondering why they do such a bizarre thing? Maybe it is easier
to implement?


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Re: libgcrypt license

2019-10-23 Thread Kristian Fiskerstrand
On 22.10.2019 20:50, Werner Koch via Gnupg-users wrote:
> There is no real reason
> for this and we could change the license if that really makes a
> difference for you. 

It would help me as a downstream packager at least; to the extent that
otherwise we'll have to update license acceptance information in the
package.

-- 

Kristian Fiskerstrand
Blog: https://blog.sumptuouscapital.com
Twitter: @krifisk

Public OpenPGP keyblock at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3

Corruptissima re publica plurimæ leges
The greater the degeneration of the republic, the more of its laws



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Should gpg try to connect to TCP/993?

2019-10-23 Thread Mikhail Morfikov via Gnupg-users
I'm filtering OUTPUT traffic on my Debian via
nftables+cgroups(net_cls)+cgrulesengd, and all apps, which want to connect to
the network, I have to assign some cgroups class and add a rule in the FW.
The gpg binary wants TCP/443 to speak with keyservers (optionally TCP/80).
I thought that's all what gpg wants to connect to the network, but it looks like
it wants also TCP/993 (IMAPS). This happens when I use Thunderbird as a mail
clinet + Enigmail extension, which make some use of gpg. Basically when I start
Thunderbird, only it wants to connect to the TCP/993 port, but when I clear the
conntrack table via `conntrack -F`, then also gpg wants to connect to that port.
This is not always the case though -- it only happens when the clearing of the
conntrack table is issued some time after Thunderbird has been stared (an hour
or so). So it looks like the keepalive packets can play some role here. When
I `lsof -i :993`, I can see some entries pointing to Thunderbird. Also nftables
reports some NEW-notSYN packets destined to my machine (which is understood
because the conntrack mechanism doesn't know about the established connections 
now,and everything that comes from the mail servers is in this NEW-notSYN 
state). 
I can see some blocked OUTPUT packets as well, and when compared src/dst 
ports/ips
I can tell that the packets were sent by Thunderbird (they match to the `lsof`
output). Also `lsof` doesn't show anything that points to gpg. When I prevent
gpg from connecting to this port, I can't access my mail account in
Thunderbird -- it just tries to refresh the inbox, but it just stalls. When I
restart Thunderbird at this point, then everything backs to normal, and I don't
see any drops in OUTPUT traffic. Could anyone explain what's going on here?



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Automatically changing/removing key passphrase

2019-10-23 Thread Bjarni Runar Einarsson
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Hello GnuPG users!

Background: I'm working a bit on Mailpile's Autocrypt support
these days. Mailpile creates OpenPGP keys for its users, which
are protected by a strong passphrase, but generally manages those
passphrases on the user's behalf to guarantee a seamless user
experience. I don't want my users to be locked in to Mailpile,
and I wanted to implement the Autocrypt Setup Message (ASM) spec
so users had a standardized, semi-automated way to migrate their
keys from Mailpile to another mail agent. For better or worse,
the ASM defines a password protection scheme for the key material
which is different from a passphrase on the key itself.

So when syncing the keys, I need to remove the passphrase. I
cannot figure out an elegant way to do this using GnuPG or GPGME.

The GPGME manual's "Changing Passphrases" section 7.5.10 states:
"The backend engine will usually popup a window to ask for the
old and the new passphrase. Thus this function is not useful in a
server application (where passphrases are not required anyway)."

I guess from the point of view of GnuPG and GPGME, Mailpile is
behaving like a server application. But I would still rather not
store the secret keys unprotected, so I need an automated way to
manage the key's passphrase. How do I square this circle?

Any hints on how to automatically remove the passphrase using
gnupg without direct user interaction?

A Google search showed that this is a question that comes up
every now and then, but I have only seen manual procedures for
resolving it. Is this perhaps a feature which should be added?

Thanks in advance,
 - Bjarni

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