Re: [Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts
Thanks Haim for sharing your practice. We follow similar steps. I am also concerned about the following phrase "The following romanization table attempts to represent the sound of Hebrew or Yiddish words but is applicable to all Hebraic languages." With the addition of the ALA/LC Judeo-Arabic and Ladino romanization tables, the statement "is applicable to all Hebraic languages" is not only misleading, but in correct. Heidi G. Lerner Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Emerita, Stanford University Libraries From: Gottschalk, Haim Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 9:23 AM To: Heidi G Lerner ; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel Subject: RE: [Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts With respect to the vocalization of Aramaic words, I looked at a few sources – after ES or Alkalay – I start with Jastrow and if not found, I would then search in Sefaria and Wikitext, which gives me the citation and then I follow this with the (physical) Koren Talmud and then the (physical) Artscroll Talmud. Haim From: Heb-naco On Behalf Of Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 12:14 PM To: heb-naco@lists.osu.edu Subject: [Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts Dear safranim, Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization schemata for several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not codified any guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic texts? Dear safranim, Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization schemata for several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not codified any guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic texts? Up until now my practice has been to follow the ALA/LC table for Hebrew. If I don't find a particular Aramaic word in Even-Shoshan or Alkalay, i turn to Jastrow, Sefaria, Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon (covers all dialects). What have the rest of you been doing? Should a preferred method be codified? I look forward to learning your practices have been. Best, Heidi Heidi G. Lerner Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Emerita, Stanford University Libraries ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts
In my time at LC we never tackled this, mostly because we almost never needed it. Personally, I always turned to Jastrow first, but this practice was not codified. Joan Biella On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 9:17 AM Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco < heb-naco@lists.osu.edu> wrote: > Dear safranim, Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization > schemata for several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not > codified any guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and > midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic texts? > Dear safranim, > > Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization schemata for > several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not codified any > guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic > texts? > > Up until now my practice has been to follow the ALA/LC table for Hebrew. > If I don't find a particular Aramaic word in Even-Shoshan or Alkalay, i > turn to Jastrow, Sefaria, Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon (covers all > dialects). > > What have the rest of you been doing? Should a preferred method be > codified? > > I look forward to learning your practices have been. > > Best, Heidi > > > > Heidi G. Lerner > > Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Emerita, Stanford University > Libraries > > > ___ > Heb-naco mailing list > Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu > https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco > ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts
Hmm. I don't know that the language warrants a gold standard analog to Even Shoshan: 1) The corpus is finite: Nothing new is being written in any of the various Jewish takes on Aramaic (so far as I know), so the need to standardize is greatly reduced; 2) Lexicon is only part of the issue: As you know, Aramaic existed in a number of strata, and though it's mostly consistent-ish, there's enough variance that grammars for linguistic layers would have to recommended too; 3) The cost will be too much for some: A number of libraries can't afford to get the latest edition of ES, so I think adding the burden of further resources would be ill-advised. For instance, a quick Amazon search reveals the two Sokoloff books can be had for a little less than $500. Grammars would inevitably add much much more to that. Jastrow, on the other hand is readily available, and it has gotten me through many a dark and stormy evening (true stories from chez Talbott) but it's got some defects. For my money, I think allowing people do what they can with the resources available to them would be the best option. Yes, there's going to be a bit of variance, but weighing the volume of material against possible inconsistencies I think the net outcome of trust in cataloging/added work cleaning up errors would be acceptable. One thing that we could do is beef up our references in the "Aramaic" section of the HCM. Right now, it's just Jastrow. It has always been just Jastrow. I'm not suggesting that we ditch Jastrow, but given the number of resources that have been published in the last twenty-some odd years, it may be time to expand the list a bit. My two cents. Bob On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 9:17 AM Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco < heb-naco@lists.osu.edu> wrote: > Dear safranim, Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization > schemata for several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not > codified any guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and > midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic texts? > Dear safranim, > > Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization schemata for > several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not codified any > guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic > texts? > > Up until now my practice has been to follow the ALA/LC table for Hebrew. > If I don't find a particular Aramaic word in Even-Shoshan or Alkalay, i > turn to Jastrow, Sefaria, Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon (covers all > dialects). > > What have the rest of you been doing? Should a preferred method be > codified? > > I look forward to learning your practices have been. > > Best, Heidi > > > > Heidi G. Lerner > > Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Emerita, Stanford University > Libraries > > > ___ > Heb-naco mailing list > Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu > https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco > -- Bob Talbott Hebraica cataloger/Curatorial Assistant to the Judaica Collection UC Berkeley 250 Moffitt Berkeley, CA 94720 Lue musaraba shu biburueada Bilgameshe nam habadabkure. ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts
Excellent question, Heidi! I know of no codified Aramaic romanization table. I, too, have applied the Hebrew standards for Aramaic terms as needed. The question is whether or not there is sufficient justification to consider Aramaic its own discrete language requiring its own standard. I'm not sure there is, but perhaps others think otherwise? As to the list of resources you list below, I'd shy away from Sefaria as a romanization reference source simply because, as an open-source resource, I don't know how reliable/stable the vocalizations found there might be. Thanks for bringing this up, Jasmin From: Heb-naco On Behalf Of Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 12:14 PM To: heb-naco@lists.osu.edu Subject: [Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts Dear safranim, Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization schemata for several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not codified any guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic texts? Dear safranim, Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization schemata for several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not codified any guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic texts? Up until now my practice has been to follow the ALA/LC table for Hebrew. If I don't find a particular Aramaic word in Even-Shoshan or Alkalay, i turn to Jastrow, Sefaria, Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon (covers all dialects). What have the rest of you been doing? Should a preferred method be codified? I look forward to learning your practices have been. Best, Heidi Heidi G. Lerner Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Emerita, Stanford University Libraries ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts
With respect to the vocalization of Aramaic words, I looked at a few sources - after ES or Alkalay - I start with Jastrow and if not found, I would then search in Sefaria and Wikitext, which gives me the citation and then I follow this with the (physical) Koren Talmud and then the (physical) Artscroll Talmud. Haim From: Heb-naco On Behalf Of Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 12:14 PM To: heb-naco@lists.osu.edu Subject: [Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts Dear safranim, Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization schemata for several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not codified any guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic texts? Dear safranim, Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization schemata for several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not codified any guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic texts? Up until now my practice has been to follow the ALA/LC table for Hebrew. If I don't find a particular Aramaic word in Even-Shoshan or Alkalay, i turn to Jastrow, Sefaria, Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon (covers all dialects). What have the rest of you been doing? Should a preferred method be codified? I look forward to learning your practices have been. Best, Heidi Heidi G. Lerner Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Emerita, Stanford University Libraries ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
[Heb-NACO] ALA/LC romanization(?) for Aramic as used in Babylonian Talmud, Talmud Yerushalmi, midrashitc texts
Dear safranim, Is it possible that in our years of developing romanization schemata for several Jewish languages written in Hebrew script we have not codified any guidelines for Aramaic used in talmudic and midrashic/aggadic/cabalistic texts? Up until now my practice has been to follow the ALA/LC table for Hebrew. If I don't find a particular Aramaic word in Even-Shoshan or Alkalay, i turn to Jastrow, Sefaria, Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon (covers all dialects). What have the rest of you been doing? Should a preferred method be codified? I look forward to learning your practices have been. Best, Heidi Heidi G. Lerner Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Emerita, Stanford University Libraries ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
