[lace] Re: Lace Guild Website Advent Calendar
Janice Blair wrote: I clicked on the Lace Guild web site http://www.laceguild.demon.co.uk/ went to the Advent Calendar, waited patiently whilst it set up, clicked on door #1 and nothing hasppend. Silly me, it is still November here, but surely December 1 in England now even though it is only 1 a.m. in the morning. Cheat! When we first started (seven years ago) we changed the picture by hand everyday about midnight UK time. However then I got round to coding it (it does work on a computer you know) and 'it' checks the time 'itself' - and yes, the time is your computer's local time. (Which also means that if your computer battery is flat and the date has gone back to 1904 or something, you are going to have to replace the battery if you want to open the windows.) And Tamara wrote: It took a bit of time to load; Yes, I forgot to warn you, it will be slow first time because it loads all the pics (even though you can't see them) in the background. Next time they should still be in your computer's 'cache' so with any luck the page should load more quickly. (I could try to write even more complicated code that only does the background loading on the right date, but, then, it's just an Advent Calendar not a guided missile system :-) ) David -- Jean Leader Glasgow, Scotland, UK Lace Guild web site: http://www.laceguild.org - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Emery Powder Pin Cushion
Dear Jeri, Is this right? Synthetics hold moisture more than wool? Most peoples experiences of washing, (we all have to do some at some time) will have found that our synthetic clothes, nylon polyester etc. will dry much more quickly than wool or cotton. They do not seem to absorb moisture from the air as wool can. Can I suggest one more fabric for the inner of an emery pin cushion. That is pillow ticking, designed to keep the very fine down inside pillows. Jean in Cleveland U.K. On 30 Nov 2004, at 15:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 11/30/04 3:14:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A felt lining works well for me - it keeps the emery powder inside and makes the cushion more comfortable to use when pushing in the pins. Dear Lacemakers (especially those new to such things), A reminder when using felt for pin cushions - the felt *must be made of wool*. If it is a synthetic felt, it will hold moisture and that will damage pins left in it. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Lace Guild Website Advent Calendar
It took a bit of time to load; I thought I was gonna get Janice experience, gave up for tonight, and clicked on the Census to remind myself - once again g - what the requirements for the luggage label were Mmm - yes! I'm also trying to decide on what to put on a luggage label. The deadline will soon be in sight, which should motivate me to think of something to put on the label! Wouldn't it be fun if we all made a label for the Lace Guild's census? See the Census at the luggage label on http://www.laceguild.demon.co.uk/ Sue Babbs (in Chicago - where the trees and shrubs are looking so pretty with their white covering) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] wreath boxes caution
Thanks for the info! When I measured my boxes I measured the bottom so I could see the usable area as I measured. Mine have domed lids as well but the bottoms are indented so they do stack okay. The Canadian ones are made of a heavy plastic that I can't compress with my hands, especially when the lid is fastened. I am sure there are many makers and a variety of quality levels out there so make sure you check before you buy! I can only vouch for the ones I bought here in Canada. smile Janet Just a note FYI, I measured my pillows, and then ran right out to Target to get some wreath boxes, and found that even though the plastic boxes were labeled 22in. X 22in. X 6 in, because of the way they fasten the inside measurement is 18 inches across. The brand was Style Master. Will check into some other brands, but if your pillow is more than 18in. it won't fit. They also are not very sturdy, and the lids were domed so I don't think they would stack very easily. April - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] pair or two singles
Hi Spiders. I thought I would take a break from the slow progress on my Chantilly fan and make a post. When adding in a pair of bobbins at the gimp in point ground lace (Chantilly, Bucks Point), should I add in a pair of bobbins or 2 single bobbins? Does it matter? A pair of bobbins is two bobbins connected together. You make a pair by taking a long piece of thread and winding half on one bobbin and half on the other bobbin. Then you hang the pair over the gimp and, presto, it's added in. A single bobbin is a bobbin wound with thread which ends in a loose thread end. You add this by attaching the loose thread end to the gimp and letting the bobbin hang. While the bobbin merrily works its way through the lace, the loose end stays with the gimp until the gimp has worked three or four stitches. Then the loose end is thrown back, later cut off close to the lace. The obvious way to attach the loose end to the gimp is to knot the loose end to the loose end of a spare bobbin--to give yourself a leash--and attach the spare bobbin to the gimp bobbin (or just remember to work them as one unit). Then throw back the spare bobbin before you reach the knot. I think it must be better to add in a pair of bobbins, since then there are no loose ends in the lace. Surely it is bad to have loose ends in the lace. Even though they've been secured by three ot four stitches, won't they tend to unravel over time and so cause the whole lace piece to fall apart? I would always add in pairs if it wasn't for the problem of winding thread. Here is the problem. Suppose you start out with a pair of bobbins with each bobbin's having a good amount of thread. This pair works through the lace for a while and eventually is thrown out and cut off. Now you come to a place where you need to add bobbins. The obvious bobbins to add are the ones that were cut off. But now your original long unbroken piece of thread has been cut in half (half is now on each bobbin) so instead of a long unbroken thread you have two threads each half the size of the original thread. So you discard one thread and share the other between the two bobbins. Now you have a pair with each bobbin's having a not-so-good amount of thread. Perhaps now the bobbins have too little thread and you'll have to, ugh, replace them when they run out of thread (that puts loose threads into the lace again!). I could just throw out lots and lots of thread and always put long pieces of thread on pairs of bobbins, so the thread problem is not unsurmountable. But it is unpleasant to constantly be throwing out thread and winding bobbins. If I add in single bobbins then there is no winding at all to be done. I just grab the bobbin and add it in. So you see that I would like the convenience of adding in bobbins as singles, but I am afraid that that is a bad idea because of all the loose ends. It's bad enough that I have dozens of loose ends from cutting off bobbins, without also having them from adding in. What is the common wisdom on this question? This is a new problem for me. I have been learning lace from Nottingham's _Technique_Of_Bobbins_Lace_Revised_Edition_ (excellent book for learning lace) and in the Bucks Point exercises that I've done so far (I've done 2/3 or so of them) only one or two pairs have ever been added in. I didn't mind adding in the bobbins as pairs when there were only one or two of them. However in my Chantilly fan (the fan from Lohr's _Hausdragon_ box of patterns), pairs are constantly being cut off and added in. A pair--if not two pairs-- is added in whenever a half stitch figure is started and cut off when the the figure ends. It got to be really burdensome, constantly endlessly rewinding bobbins do as to add them in as pairs. I got sick of it. I am almost half-way done with my fan! This is slow progress since it is the only piece of lace I work on and it's been several months. It is full of mistakes. The mistakes in the figures are particularly noticeable since a mistake in half-stitch causes a run in the stocking. I used to think, how could anybody make a mistake in half-sttich? Half-stitch mistakes are so easy to catch. Ha Ha. I got my comeuppance. Also I notice the ragged and gappy look of the borders of the figure due to putting pins in the worng pinholes or maybe pricking the holes badly. Less noticeable is the fact that I just can't seem to fix in my mind how many twists to use in footside and so just twist randomly. Fortunately, it turns out that I don't care about the mistakes. No, I look at the lace, my heart lifts up, and I think it is beautiful. Just as flower can be beautiful without being perfect. However, I am really worried that my lace will fall apart because of all the loose ends. I am constantly cutting off bobbins and I don't know if I secure the ends well enough before I throw them back and cut off close to the
[lace] Wool Felt? Synthetic Felt?
In a message dated 12/1/04 4:04:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Synthetics hold moisture more than wool? Most peoples experiences of washing, (we all have to do some at some time) will have found that our synthetic clothes, nylon polyester etc. will dry much more quickly than wool or cotton. They do not seem to absorb moisture from the air as wool can. Dear Jean and Lacemakers, My recommendation was based on The Embroiderers' Guild of America classes I've taken over the years. Their teachers advise against synthetics for needlebooks (a lot of small items are made in mini-workshops) where you store needles in natural-fiber flannel pages and they reuse all the wool orts (scraps) from needlepointing (canvaswork) to fill their pincushions. Opinions about wool will vary depending on climate. Some climates are damp or humid and not helpful to the process of drying wool items. I have to say that wool does breathe. As long as air circulates in the room where woolen items are drying, they are ready to wear in a reasonable length of time. **Wool will assume the level of humidity in the environment.** My experience is that synthetics may be easy-care but make one feel clammy (too cool) or over-heated. Having never been a pin, I do not know how they feel when wearing synthetics! I do know that pins do not slide into most synthetics very well. Forty years ago, when all my clothes were made at home, a needle could be used in a sewing machine for a long time. Now, they advise changing the needle before every garment is started. My tailor blames the synthetic and blended fabrics being used. When I worked on the American Wool Council public relations account back in the early 1960's, the guidelines from the Peace Corps were for the volunteers to bring only clothes made of natural fibers with them - wool,/cotton/silk/linen. They were totally against synthetics. Whenever in doubt while doing handwork, I use fibers that have stood the test of time. Synthetics have not passed my test - yet. Not long ago, I read that conservators are having problems keeping second-half 20th C. clothing and the first space suits worn by astronauts presentable for museum viewing. Tried-and-true techniques do not work and the materials seem to want to self-destruct. We are an international list. What works in one part of the world may not work in another. I'll stand corrected, if you think synthetic felt is a good choice for you in the climate where you live. However, I'll continue to use the real thing here in Maine. Jeri Ames in Maine USA Lace Embroidery Resource Center (\o/) ./_\. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] pair or two singles
At 10:09 AM 12/1/2004, you wrote: When adding in a pair of bobbins at the gimp in point ground lace (Chantilly, Bucks Point), should I add in a pair of bobbins or 2 single bobbins? Does it matter? I think it must be better to add in a pair of bobbins, since then there are no loose ends in the lace. Surely it is bad to have loose ends in the lace. Hi Julie, When a thread has gone through 2-3-4 stitches/pins, it should be anchored, not loose. If the thread is started along the gimp a few stitches ahead of where it will strike off on it's own, it should be secure. The only 'loose' part is the part hanging out of the lace. The loose ends of adding single threads are left hanging until the lace is off the pillow, then just clip, one at a time, close to the lace surface. They will not show, and will not come out if they have been anchored . Of course, tension gently so you don't pull it out of the previous stitches, but then lace tensioning should always be gentle -- just enough to pull the threads to the proper shape without pulling on the previous stitches. It may be easier to add a pair that is anchored by looping around the gimp, but -- as you said -- winding all those pairs can be tedious. If there are going to be threads constantly in and out of the lace, there are some ways of dealing with them without winding separate bobbins all the time. One way is to just carry the threads with the gimp until needed again. This works when the space between uses is short. This is used in Floral Bucks. Another method is to wind your pair full. When it's time to throw out the threads, just lay the pair back to the top of the lace. When needed the next time, pick them up and lay the threads back in the new place and continue working. It's the same as starting loose threads except they have not been cut off. I would have the threads looped around a pin above the working area so you end up with a loop of thread hanging out rather than have the excess threads lying flat to the lace. When the lace is off the pins, just clip both ends of each thread loop neatly. When this method of re-using the same pair without cutting is followed, and the thread loop is hooked around a pin, there is no danger of pulling the threads out when you tension them. And.. you don't have to wind anything to restart the threads. This may be the method you are looking for. ...the lace off of the pillow, months from now, and give the threads a few weeks or months to unwork themselves. If the threads don't pull out when you take the lace off the pins, they should not pull out the next week or month or year, etc. All those stitches around the pins hold the shape of the lace. (And assuming the lace is treated halfway decently and has not been attacked by the resident cats.) I have to admit that I have done Floral Bucks and not Chantilly, but I think the same methods would work. Any other ideas, fellow Arachneans? Alice in Oregon -- on a gray day when I have to make a cake for lace meeting potluck tomorrow -- Hallie's Surprise Blackberry Cake -- as ordered by a fellow lacemaker. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Lace in Mexico?
Dear Spiders, I'm curious to whether there is any lacemaking in Mexico? I will be in Nuevo Vallarta in January and it would be fun to see some. I have just read the article on the Lace Guild's website about the lacemker in Sri Lanka, most enjoyable. Thanks, Irene Surrey, BC Canada - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Wool Felt? Synthetic Felt?
In a message dated 12/1/04 4:04:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Synthetics hold moisture more than wool? Wool has many benefits that synthetics don't One is that wool doesn't mildew. If one has pin cushions in which sewing sewing needles get stuck, wool which still has some grease in it (from a hand spinner) is especially good as it helps stop needles rusting (not for lace making obviously). - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[lace] Re: Emery Powder Pin Cushion
On Dec 1, 2004, at 3:57, Jean Barrett wrote: Is this right? Synthetics hold moisture more than wool? Most peoples experiences of washing, (we all have to do some at some time) will have found that our synthetic clothes, nylon polyester etc. will dry much more quickly than wool or cotton. They do not seem to absorb moisture from the air as wool can. They don't absorb moisture from anywhere; they're moisture repellent. Which is why I can't wear synthetic clothes; if I perspire, the perspiration stays close to the body forever, while the clothing itself is as dry as a bone. I'd assume the same would be true about emery powder within a synthetic felt casing; if the emery was dry to begin with - good; if it was somewhat damp, it'd stay that way forever. I also avoid synthetics like a plague in connection with my lace (pincushion covers and stuffing, pillow covers and stuffing) because I absolutely *hate* to stick pins through/into such; they give off this... I don't know - a cross between a feeling of resistance and a tiny noise - which sets my teeth on edge. Linen doesn't do it, cotton doesn't do it, wool doesn't do it, and neither do most silks. Rayon, for all it's touted as a natural fiber (being made from wood pulp, I think) doesn't behave like one in my opinion - I can't wear rayon clothes without being itchy or breaking out, any more than I can wear polyester or nylon ones. --- Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: pair or two singles
On Dec 1, 2004, at 14:32, Alice Howell wrote (in response to Julie): When a thread has gone through 2-3-4 stitches/pins, it should be anchored, not loose. If the thread is started along the gimp a few stitches ahead of where it will strike off on it's own, it should be secure. It is safe, however suspect it may seem to be :) The only time it might not be safe is when *the same thread* which had been added as a passive ends up being removed 3-4 stitches later on, without a major change of drection (pin). But chances of that happening are very slim in half-stitch and, if it looks like that's going to happen, you just add a twist, or remove another pair. Polychrome adds and removes singles all the time; a pair composed of one thick (coloured worker) and one thin (same as the basic thread) thread is added for every motif. Like Chantilly, Polychrome is made in silk - slippery at all times. But the threads stay, and don't unravel. Anyway, what's safe on removing is also safe on adding :) If you're really, really worried... Cloth stitch, instead of half-stitching, through the first/last pair you encounter in the operation. Another method is to wind your pair full. When it's time to throw out the threads, just lay the pair back to the top of the lace. When needed the next time, pick them up and lay the threads back in the new place and continue working. [...] Personally, I've never liked that one very much, because I like to add my pair/s at a certain angle (consistent with the path they'll take), and that's not always the angle at which they exited. Though, I suppose, one could skew the angle of re-entry to the correct one by choosing - carefully - the placing of the pin on which the loop of the extra thread is hooked... I've never heard of using that bypass before the re-entry before - thanks, Alice - so I didn't see the advantages of that method. Though I don't see why you'd have to wind *a* pair full... A different pair comes in, and a different one goes out. At least, that's the optimum for security reasons, as I'd said above. Either all pairs ought to be wound full, or all pairs ought to be wound with one bobbin full and one skimpy. When the skimpy one runs out, you replace it - as you would a broken thread - with a full one... If the threads don't pull out when you take the lace off the pins, they should not pull out the next week or month or year, etc. All those stitches around the pins hold the shape of the lace. A lot depends on the length of the added/removed thread, vide gimps surrounding individual honeycomb holes (flower centers, circles in the ground, etc). I've seen plenty of laces where, after a time, some gimp bits stayed, but some slipped their moorings and disappeared altogether :) Less likely to happen in the 4-per-pin laces, but it does happen a lot in PG ones, when there are only 2 prs (one each side of overlap) to hold them in place. You can leave longer whiskers when trimming, but it looks ugly... Happens less with gimps composed of several strands (say 6-8 threads of the basic thickness) than when using a special (but only 2-3 ply) gimp thread, which - once again - makes me take my (imaginary g) hat of to the lacemakers of old, who had it all figured out long before we came along with our puters... :) --- Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Lace Guild's Lacemakers' Census
On Dec 1, 2004, at 8:15, Sue Babbs wrote: Mmm - yes! I'm also trying to decide on what to put on a luggage label. Count me out on the also trying to decide g I spent over a year rejecting idea after idea, but have - finally - made my decision a few days ago; it'll be in Rosa Libre's rinse water technique :) I've been fiddlin' and fiddlin' with some ideas on it ever since I came back from the Ithaca worshop, and have come up with some elements which - I think - are still within the basic canon of it, but are also different enough to be called my own, and I don't mind owning to them. A sample of the experiments will be going off to Cathy for approval soon, but, whether she approves or not, that's what I'll be sending to Hollies on my label g And, yes, I do notice that the rules say: other than the addition of beads or raised petals, lace should be two-dimensional, when Rosa Libre's main attraction (for me, anyway) is its 3-dimensionality... But, that rule is below the statement of intent, which says: The Worldwide Lacemakers' Census is an attempt to obtain a snapshot of the work of lacemakers today. As Rosa Libre has pretty much obsessed me since I first saw it, and as I've done nothing else for the past 7 weeks or so (since my return from Ithaca), I can't imagine a *truer* snapshot of my current work ;) Wouldn't it be fun if we all made a label for the Lace Guild's census? Aren't we all participating I should hope all of us are... See the Census at the luggage label on http://www.laceguild.demon.co.uk/ --- Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] pair or two singles
I sometimes use an intermediate form of throwing in pairs: Half of the bobbins I wind as full as possible. For the other half I try to assess the length needed (has been explained before, try to search the archive http://www.mail-archive.com/lace@arachne.com/), and wind just that on the other bobbin, or even knot very short ends to pre-wound bobbins (don't mix Z and S twist, they'll undo each others twist). That reduces constant winding / dsicarding / running by half. Sometimes I cheat with an extra twist (not within half stitches) to exchange long and short threads. This however takes more care for tensioning. Ulricke Loehr's Handbuch mit 400 Tricks und Kniffen shows how to recover from half stitch mistakes. German but the drawings speak for themselfs. Jo Falkink - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Humour
Subject: [Bulk] Truly...one of the funniest emails I've ever received Ok...this one is a keeper. Enjoy your day! deb Subject: Re: Science and Logic at its best The following is supposedly an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term. The answer by one student was so profound that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well. Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following: First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different Religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities: 1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose. 2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you, and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number 2 must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct...leaving only Heaven thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting Oh my God. THIS STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY A To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Tapestry frame
DH is weary-ing of turning bobbins, and wants to make a floor standing embroidery/tapestry frame out of all (or mostly all) turned pieces. He saw a great ornate one on the Antiques Roadshow a couple of years ago, and he has some bits of pictures that just whet his appetite, but they are not enough for him to know how such a frame would be put together.. I say embroidery/tapestry frame, as to me (I'm not an embroiderer), tapestry is woven. This would be a big, solid floor standing frame for taking large pieces of say cross stitch or needlepoint (which I think a lot of people call tapestry these days). He wants to make it out of good quality wood so it would be a real piece of furniture in a living room. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Internet searches have only brought up plain, straight pieces of wood for the frame, except one site in the UK (Highbury Leasure Centre) who had plan of a frame involving turned wooden pieces. I've bought this, but it's not to his liking. Please reply direct to me, this is probably of no interest to anyone else on Arachne chat Noelene in Cooma [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nlafferty/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Thanksgiving (was Christmas of old)
Thanksgiving is not a holiday I grew up with, so I've only ever paid scant attention to it - no more than I *had to* (like going to the bank and PO a day before or forget it till Friday following). Yeah... Maybe next year I'll finally remember to organize some food before Thanksgiving instead of finding out all the restaurants are closed and eating bread... In Poland of my childhood and teens, we had something like harvest festival (dozynki - gathering of last strands of grain), but we all thought it was something contrived by the Communist government seeking to promote the rule of workers and peasants Really? I've always thought it was older than the communist government... We still had them when I was a kid (later we moved from a village to a city, so I don't know if villages continued to have them). BTW, someone sent me some info on Polish Christmas customs, which said they differed in different parts of the country. They sure did, but the website never mentioned the one I grew up with - that the gifts were brought by the First Star of 24th. At least one side of my family had that one too. Really, we had a combination: On I think Dec 6th, which is St. Nicholas Day in Poland, we got presents from our immediate family from St. Nicholas, and then for Christmas we all visited our grandparents and got presents from our extended families from the Star. The Christmas Eve dinner started when the kids saw the first star (really annoying when it's cloudy), and we got to open presents after dinner (according to my friends you do in the next morning in the US - is that right?). It really is sort of strange that all the fun of Christmas was actually on the day before, and then on actual Christmas Day we just ate leftovers and had to go to church G. A subtle reminder that the same star announced the gift to mankind of the baby Jesus (if one's beliefs go that way). Nevertheless, the gifts were dropped off under the tree, not under a stable trough... :) Is that a custom anywhere?? Weronika -- Weronika Patena Caltech, Pasadena, CA, USA http://vole.stanford.edu/weronika To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
