[lace] basic question

[Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi]

What is the most difficult *type* of lace to make? I'm guessing it is
Binche. Is that correct?

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] the logic of Binche

[Bev Walker]

Hello Sharon and everyone

Indeed, literacy itself means competence in a given area.

I think the other is an ability we all have, that many of us forget to use
once we are taught read.

Straying off the topic of Binche, there is a poignant perspective on
learning to read and lacemaking, the chapter The Three Rs in Alan Brown's
"Take the Children..."
https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/books/ba_2_2000.pdf


On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 6:40 PM, Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi <
shg...@mail.harvard.edu> wrote:

> .
> What's thrilling about your idea, Bev, is the notion of a kind of reading
> that *requires* reading all over, rather than from right to left.
>


-- 
Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of
Canada

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Re: Lace and maths ... and Binche

[Anita Hansen]

>  As for logic, I give you Binche. Is there a less logical lace? I've never 
> been taught Binche but I've made a few small pieces from working diagrams and 
> their construction makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

A year ago I may have agreed that Binche was pure art and no logic about it. 
Then last fall I had the opportunity to learn about Binche design from Kumiko 
Nakazaki.  I expected to be out of my comfort zone due to my lack of artistic 
skills. But then I was introduced to the logical formula of Binche design and 
was much more optimistic I could do it. At first I was totally confused but 
eventually it “clicked”.  Alas, even with knowing the theory it is still 
rather difficult to execute.
Anita Hansen


-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] the logic of Binche

[Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi]

Dear Bev
I take seriously the idea of thinking about lace design or pattern as a
non-linguistic writing system.
If you accept this idea, then the lacemakers who may not be able to read
are not illiterate if they can read and follow a pattern.

What's thrilling about your idea, Bev, is the notion of a kind of reading
that *requires* reading all over, rather than from right to left.



On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Bev Walker  wrote:

> Hello everyone and Jane who wrote:
>
> >  I've never been taught Binche but I've made a few small pieces from
> working diagrams and their construction makes absolutely no sense
> whatsoever.
>
> Exactly what I thought when I decided 'how hard can it be' and made a small
> piece from its diagram. I am mostly self-taught from books, following a
> diagram was easy enough. And then I was able to see up close an old example
> of Binche; I marvelled at the mind and hands that created it. Fine, tightly
> woven threads seemingly went everywhere, but here, too, was a pattern
> repeat! Was there ever a diagram? Probably not. I got an idea, what if the
> lacemaker didn't read; they weren't illiterate, they were skilled in other
> ways. If they were unhampered by having to look at a page from left to
> right, and by extension anything else -  could they see in all directions
> at once? Maybe they learned their craft by watching someone else, as one
> might when learning dance steps?
>
> I still reflect on that, with no conclusion, but getting back to making
> lace in the present, I like the new floral designs by Fumi Kanai and her
> students, and all I do is follow the lace's diagram using lots of movable
> sticky arrows to help keep track. Find the topmost element that needs doing
> first and move on from there. It is usual for several sections across the
> design to need attention before advancing. The direction of work is in a
> general downward manner even though it seems like one is jumping all over
> the place. Weaver pairs become passives and vice versa as required to fill
> in a given space.
>
> IMO working a Binche lace is puzzle-solving at its finest, whether
> designing or dependent on the diagram.
>
> --
> Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of
> Canada
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
>

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] the logic of Binche

[Bev Walker]

Hello everyone and Jane who wrote:

>  I've never been taught Binche but I've made a few small pieces from
working diagrams and their construction makes absolutely no sense
whatsoever.

Exactly what I thought when I decided 'how hard can it be' and made a small
piece from its diagram. I am mostly self-taught from books, following a
diagram was easy enough. And then I was able to see up close an old example
of Binche; I marvelled at the mind and hands that created it. Fine, tightly
woven threads seemingly went everywhere, but here, too, was a pattern
repeat! Was there ever a diagram? Probably not. I got an idea, what if the
lacemaker didn't read; they weren't illiterate, they were skilled in other
ways. If they were unhampered by having to look at a page from left to
right, and by extension anything else -  could they see in all directions
at once? Maybe they learned their craft by watching someone else, as one
might when learning dance steps?

I still reflect on that, with no conclusion, but getting back to making
lace in the present, I like the new floral designs by Fumi Kanai and her
students, and all I do is follow the lace's diagram using lots of movable
sticky arrows to help keep track. Find the topmost element that needs doing
first and move on from there. It is usual for several sections across the
design to need attention before advancing. The direction of work is in a
general downward manner even though it seems like one is jumping all over
the place. Weaver pairs become passives and vice versa as required to fill
in a given space.

IMO working a Binche lace is puzzle-solving at its finest, whether
designing or dependent on the diagram.

-- 
Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of
Canada

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Wedding Veil

[Annette Meldrum]

I finally found a good photo of the embroidery on the veil.

 

http://meghansmirror.com/royal-style/royal-wedding/meghan-markle-wedding-cer
emony-dress/

After enlarging and enhancing the photo I can confidently suggest that the
embroidery was tamboured with some needle applique as well.

The photo clearly shows the predominance of chain stitch in the stems and
lots of looping and filling work which can all be done with a tambour hook.
The applique may have also been tamboured or done with a needle. 

This makes perfect sense as tambouring is the fastest process and in order
to research, then design the flowers of all the Commonwealth countries to
fill the circumference of the royal length veil, it was the best method to
employ. It has been said that the dress and veil, including the embroidery
was done in the Givenchy workrooms in France.

Tambour has always been an important part of Haute Couture embellishment.

 

Annette in a warm and sunny South Coast of Australia.

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] mathematicians, IT engineers and lacemaking

[Amy Mills]

I am a classically trained musician (guitar, trumpet, flute, other misc.)
so I read music very well. I'm still very much new to lacemaking, but to
make a relatively simple analogy - the pattern could easily be considered a
score, and the various stitches required to make the various parts of the
lace compared to the different values of notes, the number of stitches a
form of subdivision?

I would also certainly argue that music making does require numeracy,
especially reading music, but over time the math required to understand how
to make music becomes deeply internalized and you don't generally
consciously think about it. There are of course exceptions in exceptionally
complex music, or music in an odd time signature, polyrhythmic music etc.
Though outside of classical music, once you reach a certain level of
mastery even these super complex forms are really felt more than rigorously
counted. I would imagine this is the same with lacemaking?


On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:00 PM, Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi <
shg...@mail.harvard.edu> wrote:

> I will raise my hand about music-making and needlework. I play Bach on a
> string instrument, and to my mind, the patterns that make sense when
> sight-reading musical counterpoint make the same intuitive rhythms in my
> mind (internal ear? mind's eye?) as the growing symmetries and dissonances
> of lace when looked at up close.
>
> I *also* have brain-based math learning disabilities, along with some other
> neural challenges.  Somehow reading non-syllabic writing systems are easy
> for me, but numeracy demands some other cognitive effort.
>
> To be precise, then, I would say that the part of music-making, sight
> reading counterpoint, being able to make sense of knitting and lace
> notation, has to do with comfort with discrete intervals in relation to one
> another -- nothing to do with numeracy as such.
>
> Hmmm I wonder if I agree with myself. Does numeracy -- that is, being able
> to manipulate numbers -- include being able to slice intervals into smaller
> bits? I'm thinking of how musicians think about note-value, that is, the
> duration of each note, that is, a quarter note is one beat in 4/4 time, a
> dotted quarter note is one and a half note, etc.
>
> If you are following me so far, what in lace making would correspond to
> being able to execute note values in music-making?
>
> On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 9:18 AM, David C Collyer 
> wrote:
>
> > G'day Nancy,
> >
> > It would be interesting to do a survey of the bobbin-lacemaking members
> of
> > IOLI about area of education, highest degree obtained and when, career
> > field, types of bobbin lace specialized in, maybe things like primarily
> > self-taught or not, others?, and compare the stats from that to stats
> >
> > Along with that I think it would be interesting to include such things as
> > ability to read music, play an instrument, sing in a choir etc. I just
> have
> > a feeling that many of us do.
> > David in Ballarat, AUS
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> > unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> > arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
>



-- 
Amy Mills
amymills.net
3473430956

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

RE: [lace] Rosaline progress & misc.

[Lorelei Halley]

Susan
A pretty little piece. I'm so glad you are continuing to pursue Rosaline lace.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Rosaline progress & misc. 
I finished a small piece of Rosaline designed by Ghislaine Moors. A pic is 
posted to Flickr & in spite of its many mistakes, I’m pleased that it resembles 
the intended design. Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA Sent from my iPad

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] What about Nurses?

[mary carey]

Hi All,


I come from a Nursing background and find lots of nurses among fellow
lacemakers - Margaret Stephens of needlelace fame for one.  A certain
preciseness is necessary in the performance of nursing duties.  Lacemaking
takes one out of a stressful zone and allows rejuvenation in mind.


Noticing things, minute changes so as to intervene before a crisis arises
predisposes one to explore different techniques and extend one's field of
knowledge.


Mary Carey

Campbelltown, NSW, Australia

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Re: Lace and maths

[Jane]

Interesting conversation, but can I interrupt with a heads-up for 
geographers?! Spatial awareness, patterns, structures, relationships, 
etc, all good qualities for making lace. Not sure if geography counts as 
a science or if its a humanity.


Having worked in a research department full of applied maths (fluid 
dynamics) PhD's from Cambridge, it seems to me that all mathematicians 
like to do is simplify and reduce everything to equations. Oh, and some 
were creative in their spare time, others were not.


At the same time, there are trained fine artists among us (not sure if 
any will speak up?) and their designs are brilliant and their lace work 
is wonderful.


Doesn't it just come down to creativity and a love of making things? And 
you could be a mathemetician, engineer, scientist or artist or musician 
.


As for logic, I give you Binche. Is there a less logical lace? I've 
never been taught Binche but I've made a few small pieces from working 
diagrams and their construction makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 
Pairs pass backwards and forwards across the work leaving gaping holes 
and pulled apart cloth stitch - why?! when there are ways that would 
avoid that. I can see no logic in it at all.


Could it be that mathematicians, scientists and so on are more tech 
savvy and so more likely to be on arachne than artists and musicians? 
Just a thought.


Best wishes,
Jane
in the beautiful New Forest where the foals have arrived

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Jstor article

[Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi]

Friends I would be happy to send the article about Art Nouveau lace to
anybody who asks me. That is, if your email can take attachments.
I did not know this when I sent out previous message
Sharon

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] article about Félix Aubert and art nouveau

[Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi]

Article title: "Felix Aubert, Art dans Tout, and Art Nouveau Lace" You can
read it for free online

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40662780?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] question about nomenclature

[Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi]

I happen to like art nouveau bobbin lace. Is this considered "modern"? I
imagine it is, but given the fact that it is more than a century old in
design, wouldn't it make sense for people to have a third category such as
"early 20th century modern" to distinguish it from designs created by
contemporary lacemakers?

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Math of laces that aren't point ground

[Devon Thein]

Dear Sharon,
Go to this link; http://www.vansciverbobbinlace.com/IOLI_2013_HVSCourses.pdf
Look at the second page of the class description. There are two leaves
in the upper left. They are virtually the same, but have to be worked
entirely differently, depending on where the pairs are entering, and
their orientation in a piece, such as the piece below the two leaves
that also has leaves in it.
Here is a link to Milanese.
https://lacenews.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/milanese_birds_detail.jpg
Notice how the solid areas appear to be like a woven textile that
might have been woven on a loom, except that they travel in curled
ways, get wider and narrower, etc. All the time the lacemaker is
trying to keep the texture looking like the warp and weft (passives
and workers) are at right angles to each other.
Devon

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] I would also love to hear about the opinionated funny or snooty things your teachers said

[Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi]

Friends
Diana's message just prompted another thought which has been simmering
since Gertrude Biederman was mentioned the other day.

What were some of the most characteristic things your lace-making teachers
said that have stuck with you?

I can imagine that everyone has heard a teacher bemoan the falling away of
interest in lace collecting and lace-making, but surely there are other
categories that would be characteristic of a lace making class

How would you fill in the sentence:

When first looking at lace I always:
When teaching lace to a beginner I always:
When starting a new project I always:

When it comes to lace, it is always

What are remarks about a style or a project your various teachers (or
authors) have made that struck you as characteristic and

• snooty or dismissive
• angry or indignant
• humorous, amusing
• surprising
• confusing

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] Lace and maths

[Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi]

Dear Arachnites,
if you are at ease with computers, it would be helpful to post a URL link
to an image of the lace they have in mind when arguing for the mathematical
precision of a lace design.
For example, it would clarify the drift of the conversation for me if
Kathleen and Devon, say, would post the URL of an images of a pattern or
lace close-up and show us what makes something "intensely mathematical".


On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 10:33 AM, Devon Thein  wrote:

> Kathleen writes:  I wonder if it is simply that bobbin lace appeals
> particularly to scientists and especially mathematicians. Moving on
> from this, is it the more “regular” laces which appeal, I.e. Torchon,
> Bucks and Flanders, rather than Bedfordshire for instance?
>
> Actually, I have always thought that Bedfordshire was intensely
> mathematical. Isn't Bedfordshire a lace where you are presented with a
> design that has acanthus leaves strewn all over it, in different
> orientations, all basically the same shape, but you work each one
> differently as you have to keep the weaving line perpendicular to the
> edge? Similarly, laces such as Milanese and Duchesse present you with
> the mathematical challenge of making each stitch of linen stitch
> appear at a perfect right angle like a weave, while the tape or flower
> curls around. One time a museum colleague, looking at a Duchesse piece
> said, "It is like an Escher". I think that it is like the Escher that
> has all the stairs going hither and yon, always looking very
> straightforward and mathematical and yet not being that way at all.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
>

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] mathematicians, IT engineers and lacemaking

[Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi]

I will raise my hand about music-making and needlework. I play Bach on a
string instrument, and to my mind, the patterns that make sense when
sight-reading musical counterpoint make the same intuitive rhythms in my
mind (internal ear? mind's eye?) as the growing symmetries and dissonances
of lace when looked at up close.

I *also* have brain-based math learning disabilities, along with some other
neural challenges.  Somehow reading non-syllabic writing systems are easy
for me, but numeracy demands some other cognitive effort.

To be precise, then, I would say that the part of music-making, sight
reading counterpoint, being able to make sense of knitting and lace
notation, has to do with comfort with discrete intervals in relation to one
another -- nothing to do with numeracy as such.

Hmmm I wonder if I agree with myself. Does numeracy -- that is, being able
to manipulate numbers -- include being able to slice intervals into smaller
bits? I'm thinking of how musicians think about note-value, that is, the
duration of each note, that is, a quarter note is one beat in 4/4 time, a
dotted quarter note is one and a half note, etc.

If you are following me so far, what in lace making would correspond to
being able to execute note values in music-making?

On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 9:18 AM, David C Collyer 
wrote:

> G'day Nancy,
>
> It would be interesting to do a survey of the bobbin-lacemaking members of
> IOLI about area of education, highest degree obtained and when, career
> field, types of bobbin lace specialized in, maybe things like primarily
> self-taught or not, others?, and compare the stats from that to stats
>
> Along with that I think it would be interesting to include such things as
> ability to read music, play an instrument, sing in a choir etc. I just have
> a feeling that many of us do.
> David in Ballarat, AUS
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
>

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Modern versus Traditional

[Devon Thein]

How would you characterize the Binche lace of Kumiko? Is it modern or
traditional? The style, Binche, is traditional, but the subject matter
is Teddy Bears and Balloons and other non-traditional things. Any
Nobens's Binche that she designed with timely themes often oriented
toward the location of the IOLI convention could not be confused with
traditional Binche that was actually made in the 17th century. It
really has an entirely different look to it.
Devon

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] Lace and maths

[Devon Thein]

Kathleen writes:  I wonder if it is simply that bobbin lace appeals
particularly to scientists and especially mathematicians. Moving on
from this, is it the more “regular” laces which appeal, I.e. Torchon,
Bucks and Flanders, rather than Bedfordshire for instance?

Actually, I have always thought that Bedfordshire was intensely
mathematical. Isn't Bedfordshire a lace where you are presented with a
design that has acanthus leaves strewn all over it, in different
orientations, all basically the same shape, but you work each one
differently as you have to keep the weaving line perpendicular to the
edge? Similarly, laces such as Milanese and Duchesse present you with
the mathematical challenge of making each stitch of linen stitch
appear at a perfect right angle like a weave, while the tape or flower
curls around. One time a museum colleague, looking at a Duchesse piece
said, "It is like an Escher". I think that it is like the Escher that
has all the stairs going hither and yon, always looking very
straightforward and mathematical and yet not being that way at all.

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

RE: [lace] mathematicians, IT engineers and lacemaking

[David C Collyer]

G'day Nancy,

It would be interesting to do a survey of the bobbin-lacemaking members of
IOLI about area of education, highest degree obtained and when, career
field, types of bobbin lace specialized in, maybe things like primarily
self-taught or not, others?, and compare the stats from that to stats 

Along with that I think it would be interesting to include such things as
ability to read music, play an instrument, sing in a choir etc. I just have
a feeling that many of us do.
David in Ballarat, AUS

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] Modern v. traditional

[Diana Smith]

When I first saw traditional Bucks point pillow lace being made, nearly forty 
years ago, that was it that was what I wanted to do and I haven’t changed 
since. 
During those years I have dabbled in almost all bobbin laces also with needle, 
shuttle and hook - and colour, which I love, and even a little designing but 
the old laces of the East Midlands i.e, Bedfordshire, Bucks and 
Northamptonshire will always be my first love. Maybe my interest in the history 
of the craft has a lot to do with it and the fact that a grandmother way back 
was a lacemaker. 
I left school with no qualification what so ever, that came much later but 
that’s another story!
I’ve studied under Marjory Carter, also Pam Nottingham, Bridget Cooke, Vi 
Bullard and Barbara Underwood - to name a few. Marjory believed in making 
complete item such as motifs, mats and items for the dressing table. When I 
began a sample piece from an old pricking in one of her classes she said ‘waste 
of time’ and walked away. But even so she was generous with her time and 
knowledge.
Each to their own is my philosophy. 
Diana in Northamptonshire 


> On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, Sue Duckles  wrote:
> 
> Hi All, I usually lurk but... I'm sticking my head up here. 
> 
> There are those of us who are not interested in mathematics in it's pure 
> form, not interested in designing patterns when there are many patterns out 
> there already. We are the people who know what we like, we know if we can 
> work a design in colour, plain, fancy... rather like going into a shop and 
> deciding to buy the skirt in red floral rather than green plain. We like the 
> design and the colour was our choice. 
> 
> This shows that we are all interested in different forms of lace, 3 of us 
> meet up once a week, I love torchon and Bedfordshire, Milanese and honiton, 
> but I usually sit tatting, another of the group works on honiton only, whilst 
> the 'lady of the house' (it's her table we meet round), works on whatever 
> pattern she's come across that appeals to her. None of us design. If everyone 
> designed then there would be nobody to work our designs... they'd be too busy 
> working their own!
> 
> So, everyone has a personal preference, some people like modern settings, 
> some like traditional settings, some like early laces, some design their own. 
> We can't all be the same! The choices we all make for ourselves are based on 
> the finished article... unless you 'shove it in a cupboard to be ignored'! 
> What would be the point in that?? That'd be like shoving your husband in the 
> wardrobe... only allowing him out on odd occasions... lol!! 
> 
> 'Nuff said, we all know our choices!!
> 
> Sue in the UK

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Computer coding

[Anita Hansen]

Ahh yes, Ada Lovelace! I knew about her long before I discovered lace! Our 
company and my group in particular was an early adopter of the Ada Programming 
language back in the early 1980’s. It was fun to learn a female was one of the 
first computer programmers!
Anita Hansen

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] Modern v. traditional

[Ilske Thomsen]

Hello Alex,
why do you think so? I have the impression most of us prefer traditional lace. 
What ever one of us choose and like it is ok. Bobbin lace offers so multiple 
choices that everybody find something. And reading the answers it is like this.
By the way I like Chantilly and Flanders laces most and still work them but on 
the other side I like do to the nowadays way.

Ilske

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Rosaline progress & misc.

[Susan]

Thank you all for posting! I’m enjoying the various discussions on lace in the 
1980’s, modern lace trailblazers (whose names I now know) & connections to 
math. Some of us came late to the party so these additional details are 
fascinating. Overall, I’m going to agree with Robin & her comment about 
inquiring minds. For me, lace is about curiosity. To some extent, lace reminds 
me of the internet—you can follow one link that leads to another & pretty soon 
you get lost in there for days! In the meantime, in between reading Arachne, 
working in my garden & watching the wedding, I finished a small piece of 
Rosaline designed by Ghislaine Moors. A pic is posted to Flickr & in spite of 
its many mistakes, I’m pleased that it resembles the intended design. As to the 
wedding veil, I hope more “construction” details are forthcoming. You never 
know when an Arachnean may undertake a similar project on a smaller scale!  
Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA 
Sent from my iPad

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Modern v. traditional

[Jane Partridge]

Don't forget that traditional lace would once have been considered "modern" - 
laces like Maltese and Bedfordshire certainly followed the general designs in 
use in other media at the time, and all lace had to follow fashion to stay 
economically viable. In times gone by, it wasn't the lacemakers who designed 
the lace because working in a cottage industry they simply didn't have the time 
to consider working out their own patterns. It is possible that those who did 
"gave up the day job" to go it alone, or if they showed signs of having 
particular talent were "talent spotted or head-hunted" by the dealers who 
supervised their work. One would have had to have some financial independence 
to afford art and design training of any type, and in many cases those 
designing lace would probably have been working in wider fashion circles - the 
lace being designed to complement the item it was to adorn. The option for any 
lacemaker to start designing for him/herself would have most likely de!
 veloped with the onset of the adult education, when lace was being made as a 
hobby rather than as a means of earning a living. Design isn't for everyone, 
and as Sue pointed out, if we all designed, there would be no-one to work our 
patterns.  It is nice, though, when after designing a piece of lace (be it 
modern or traditional), you find out it has been worked by others - it makes 
the time spent working on the design worth it.

To some extent I think that whether in a class you have some or no students 
wishing to design is down to the motivation they are given - if the teacher is 
weak in his/her own design skills, then s/he is less likely to encourage her 
students to progress in that area (because, maybe subconsciously, s/he doesn't 
feel confident to guide them if they get stuck). If the teacher has an open 
mind, with a "why not try, and see if you like it" attitude, and gives the 
class some opportunity and guidence as to how to do their own thing, even if it 
is only changing elements in a Torchon pattern rather than sticking with the 
prescribed stitches, then some might wish to go further in that direction. In 
the past there have been some teachers who actively or accidentally suppressed 
any deviation by their students - maybe I'm not the only one to have been put 
off wearing a piece of jewellery I designed by the reaction to it by my teacher 
- fortunately that was reversed when I had the piece on!
  display when I was giving a demonstration and it got so many compliments I 
started wearing it again. 

It's a bit like having children - let them learn from their own mistakes, if 
they want to follow a particular direction, or work on one apect, let them - 
don't feel you, as a teacher, have to push them into what you want them to 
learn - sometimes they will carry on (though maybe only in class, for fear of 
upsetting you) - some will put their toes in the water and decide it isn't for 
them, others will take the traditional skills they have learned, and move them 
on into thicker threads, distorted grids and shapes, and wild colours - lace at 
the end of the day should be what pleases the lacemaker, regardless of whether 
it is a traditional pattern, designed donkeys' years ago and worked umpteen 
times, or something they lay musing about in the bath as a "I wonder what will 
happen if I use those threads?"

For the last three days I've been on a stand at New Street Station, Birmingham 
(UK), promoting the Great Little Trains of Wales; we had a seaside theme 
(complete with beach (breakdown last night included shovelling up the sand to 
go back to the beach it came from!) We were asked to take sunhats to wear - so 
out came mine with the lace (fish outlined by orange gimps set on blue Torchon 
ground) hatband I designed for a Lace Guild publication (the Penguin Pattern 
Book, which was a children's story book by Deborah Robinson, illustrated with 
lace patterns; now long out of print). Watching people passing through the 
station showed just how much lace is in fashion again now - from collars to 
skirts and dresses, and facinators - a modern fashion accessory. 

Wouldn't life be boring if we all did the same thing?

Jane Partridge


Alex said:
 It is
time for those of us who enjoy making and designing lace in the traditional
manner to stand up and say we should also have recognition for our art and
craft, and traditional lacemakers usually have a greater understanding of the
craft. If you go to any Lace Day the number of traditional lacemakers far
outweighs the number of modernists. I am currently running three classes and
have only two interested in designing.  So why the emphasis on modern lace?

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] Computer coding

[Karen ZM]

On Sun, 20 May 2018 at 10:20 AM, Gilian Dye  wrote:

> It is often forgotten that one of the earliest computer programmers was a
> woman - Ada Lovelace...


Ironic to this discussion that her surname was Lovelace 🙂

Karen in Malta

>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
>

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] Lace and maths

[Sue Duckles]

Or... is it that one style appeals whilst another doesn't? By that I mean the 
finished piece... A bit like art really. And nothing to do with mathematics or 
science... 

Sue in East Yorkshire UK

Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 May 2018, at 07:55, Kathleen Harris  wrote:
> 
> I wonder if it is simply that bobbin lace appeals particularly to scientists 
> and especially mathematicians. Moving on from this, is it the more “regular” 
> laces which appeal, I.e. Torchon, Bucks and Flanders, rather than 
> Bedfordshire for instance?

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

RE: [lace] Lace and maths

[Susan@]

I'm a Maths graduate (Leeds, 1987), I taught myself Torchon in the early 1980s 
while still at school.  I think the connection isn't Maths as such but some of 
the things Maths, Science, Computing, psychology teaches you namely logic, 
analytic thought, sequences, patterns and coding/representation.  But to be a 
good lacemaker you also need creativity.  I remember struggling reconciling the 
academic and creative sides of me when I was younger but later reconciled this 
as what I called "logical creativity".  The laces I now choose to work are the 
complex Belgian laces such as Binche and Flanders that use coloured technical 
drawings (essentially a form of coding but a form that anyone who understands 
the coding can understand regardless of their spoken language).  One really 
interesting thing we have done in classes in Brugge (particularly as a 
lacemaking teacher for my understanding of how others understand lace 
structures) is to take an enlarged copy of an old lace and try to w!
 ork out how it has been worked.  It is fascinating to watch others working on 
the task, while most people are quite happy with cloth stitch and can quite 
happily think of two horizonal lines being a worker it is fascinating watching 
them with half stitch and struggling with the working path (in Binche the 
working path could be either horizontal, diagonal or a combination of the two). 
 

In terms of Kathleen's question about laces that appeal, for me it is the laces 
which have grids in/behind them, and I class the Belgian laces and Honiton as 
geometric because of the grounds. 

Kind Regards
Susan
Website: www.susanroberts.info
e-mail address: su...@susanroberts.info
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTWfnh8ulGj3pS1V0f6O1jQ

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Kathleen 
Harris
Sent: 20 May 2018 07:56
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] Lace and maths

I wonder if it is simply that bobbin lace appeals particularly to scientists 
and especially mathematicians. Moving on from this, is it the more “regular” 
laces which appeal, I.e. Torchon, Bucks and Flanders, rather than Bedfordshire 
for instance?

Sent from my iPad

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to 
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] Modern v. traditional

[Sue Duckles]

Hi All, I usually lurk but... I'm sticking my head up here. 

There are those of us who are not interested in mathematics in it's pure form, 
not interested in designing patterns when there are many patterns out there 
already. We are the people who know what we like, we know if we can work a 
design in colour, plain, fancy... rather like going into a shop and deciding to 
buy the skirt in red floral rather than green plain. We like the design and the 
colour was our choice. 

This shows that we are all interested in different forms of lace, 3 of us meet 
up once a week, I love torchon and Bedfordshire, Milanese and honiton, but I 
usually sit tatting, another of the group works on honiton only, whilst the 
'lady of the house' (it's her table we meet round), works on whatever pattern 
she's come across that appeals to her. None of us design. If everyone designed 
then there would be nobody to work our designs... they'd be too busy working 
their own!

So, everyone has a personal preference, some people like modern settings, some 
like traditional settings, some like early laces, some design their own. We 
can't all be the same! The choices we all make for ourselves are based on the 
finished article... unless you 'shove it in a cupboard to be ignored'! What 
would be the point in that?? That'd be like shoving your husband in the 
wardrobe... only allowing him out on odd occasions... lol!! 

'Nuff said, we all know our choices!!

Sue in the UK





Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 May 2018, at 09:23, Alex Stillwell  wrote:
> 
> Hi Arachnids
> 
> I have had many emails thanking me for making the case for traditional lace
> and thanking me for my stand, but all seem reluctant to stick their heads
> above the parapet.  I think this a very sad state for lace to be in. It is
> time for those of us who enjoy making and designing lace in the traditional
> manner to stand up and say we should also have recognition for our art and
> craft, and traditional lacemakers usually have a greater understanding of the
> craft. If you go to any Lace Day the number of traditional lacemakers far
> outweighs the number of modernists. I am currently running three classes and
> have only two interested in designing.  So why the emphasis on modern lace?
> Perhaps it is because it is fashionable in art and craft circles.
> 
> Come on traditional lacemakers, let us hear

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Maths connection

[Alex Stillwell]

Hi Arachnids

I seem to have started something, good. Regarding the ability with maths or
not. As a maths teacher I saw, and helped, many who had had a bad experience
in maths or missed some due to ill health, and then thought they could not do
it. I have also taught lacemaking to other and assumed they were good at maths
only to be told they were not, but when further questioned it turned out they
had had a bad experience in the past that blocked their progress in the
subject. However, as others are mentioning, ability in maths is not necessary,
only the enjoyment of making lace and wanting to do it is important.

Blow the dust

Alex

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Modern v. traditional

[Alex Stillwell]

Hi Arachnids

I have had many emails thanking me for making the case for traditional lace
and thanking me for my stand, but all seem reluctant to stick their heads
above the parapet.  I think this a very sad state for lace to be in. It is
time for those of us who enjoy making and designing lace in the traditional
manner to stand up and say we should also have recognition for our art and
craft, and traditional lacemakers usually have a greater understanding of the
craft. If you go to any Lace Day the number of traditional lacemakers far
outweighs the number of modernists. I am currently running three classes and
have only two interested in designing.  So why the emphasis on modern lace?
Perhaps it is because it is fashionable in art and craft circles.

Come on traditional lacemakers, let us hear from you.

Alex

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Computer coding

[Gilian Dye]

It is often forgotten that one of the earliest computer programmers was a
woman - Ada Lovelace, daughter of Lord Byron - who in the 1840s did much of
the work that led to Charles Babbage's *Analytical Engine*, widely
considered to be the first computer.
Also Jacquard cards (basically computer punch cards) were in use on
lace-making machines as early as  1834 .
Gil

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] Dr Spriggs lace collection

[catherinebar...@btinternet.com]

I heard that The Lace Guild here in the UK now has the Dr Spriggs lace 
collection, but you'd need to check if that is correct.

Catherine Barley
UK

Sent from my iPad 

Catherine Barley Needlelace
www.catherinebarley.com

> On 15 May 2018, at 15:54, Devon Thein  wrote:
> 
>  Where is the Dr. Spriggs lace collection 
>> 

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

[lace] Lace and maths

[Kathleen Harris]

I wonder if it is simply that bobbin lace appeals particularly to scientists 
and especially mathematicians. Moving on from this, is it the more “regular” 
laces which appeal, I.e. Torchon, Bucks and Flanders, rather than Bedfordshire 
for instance?

Sent from my iPad

-
To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/