Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Came across this bug FDO#45570 and I've already nominated as a most annoying bug but I think that devs might appreciate me getting some kind of a log or something together for the crash. What type of log should I create and how do I go about doing this (basic steps, my knowledge of terminology is still in the first stages :) ). Thanks everyone Best Regards, Joel Just some random thoughts here: What happens when you create a 'working document', thats been opened and saved in Msoffice or OpenOffice, and then try to open that saved doc in LibreOffice ? Does the issue still appear ? Also, would it be helpful to attach such a document to the bug report for troubleshooting purposes ? - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
I don't see that helping much, as the developer who takes this one can quickly do this themselves. A working doc only takes 2 seconds to make. Best Regards, Joel On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:35 AM, John Smith lbalba...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Came across this bug FDO#45570 and I've already nominated as a most annoying bug but I think that devs might appreciate me getting some kind of a log or something together for the crash. What type of log should I create and how do I go about doing this (basic steps, my knowledge of terminology is still in the first stages :) ). Thanks everyone Best Regards, Joel Just some random thoughts here: What happens when you create a 'working document', thats been opened and saved in Msoffice or OpenOffice, and then try to open that saved doc in LibreOffice ? Does the issue still appear ? Also, would it be helpful to attach such a document to the bug report for troubleshooting purposes ? - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: I don't see that helping much, as the developer who takes this one can quickly do this themselves. A working doc only takes 2 seconds to make. Best Regards, Joel Another random thought then: Is there a way to reproduce the issue that doesnt require the installation of Lotus Domino ? - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
Wrong Bug, dammit, my bad. Here is the proper one, attachment is there and functioning, I had 5 open FDO tabs in FF and picked the wrong one. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48569 My apologies Joel On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:57 AM, John Smith lbalba...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: I don't see that helping much, as the developer who takes this one can quickly do this themselves. A working doc only takes 2 seconds to make. Best Regards, Joel Another random thought then: Is there a way to reproduce the issue that doesnt require the installation of Lotus Domino ? - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: Wrong Bug, dammit, my bad. Here is the proper one, attachment is there and functioning, I had 5 open FDO tabs in FF and picked the wrong one. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48569 My apologies Joel Maybe im just dumb, but: Once you have provided a reliable and reproducible test case (in this case, download the odt file attached to the report and save it as docx in libreoffice), is there still a need to provide further info at all ? The person tackling the bug can get all the info required on his/her own system, then ? Just my 2$. - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
Hi John, On Fri, 2012-09-07 at 19:10 +0200, John Smith wrote: Maybe im just dumb, but: Once you have provided a reliable and reproducible test case (in this case, download the odt file attached to the report and save it as docx in libreoffice), is there still a need to provide further info at all ? You can always make it easier for a developer to solve - and the easier it is, the more likely it is to get solved quickly. Ways to do that are: * getting a stack-trace with full debugging symbols * running valgrind with full debugging symbols and attaching a trace. For bonus points poking around at the code that's failing and thinking hard about it - and (for some bugs) even a non-expert can see the silliness by reading the relevant code in the backtrace, and looking at the git history for that file ;-) So anything to get more people drawn into development and bug fixing is good :-) we have no-where near enough hackers / proctologists to match the bugs (yet). ATB, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Michael Meeks michael.me...@suse.com wrote: Hi John, You can always make it easier for a developer to solve - and the easier it is, the more likely it is to get solved quickly. Ways to do that are: * getting a stack-trace with full debugging symbols * running valgrind with full debugging symbols and attaching a trace. If this is the case, maybe pre-build binaries with full debugging symbols should be made available for download (more) easily: both for releases and daily master builds ? Also, a 'howto' on how to do this (on linux, with gdb, on windows, with windbg ?) would be nice to have ? - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 10:44 AM, John Smith lbalba...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Michael Meeks michael.me...@suse.com wrote: Hi John, You can always make it easier for a developer to solve - and the easier it is, the more likely it is to get solved quickly. Ways to do that are: * getting a stack-trace with full debugging symbols * running valgrind with full debugging symbols and attaching a trace. Sounds good, but I agree with John that better instructions are needed. I'm working on a new triage page and hopefully in there we can get someone to contribute incredibly precise, easy for noobs, instructions for every type of backtrace/debug. Right now they are really written by experts for experts (IMO). I would backtrace much more frequently if I could follow the instructions on how to do it. Every time I feel like I have to go on IRC and ask 100 questions. If this is the case, maybe pre-build binaries with full debugging symbols should be made available for download (more) easily: both for releases and daily master builds ? Also, a 'howto' on how to do this (on linux, with gdb, on windows, with windbg ?) would be nice to have ? I don't think we have enough people packaging to make pre-built binaries for everyone. Plus, these are huge, my install is 22 gigs with all symbols on, not very good for packaging purposes. Best Regards, Joel - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
The best solution would be to have a debug symbol server, then there would be easily accessible debug symbols even for the release builds. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: Sounds good, but I agree with John that better instructions are needed. I'm working on a new triage page and hopefully in there we can get someone to contribute incredibly precise, easy for noobs, instructions for every type of backtrace/debug. Right now they are really written by experts for experts (IMO). I would backtrace much more frequently if I could follow the instructions on how to do it. Every time I feel like I have to go on IRC and ask 100 questions. I don't think we have enough people packaging to make pre-built binaries for everyone. Plus, these are huge, my install is 22 gigs with all symbols on, not very good for packaging purposes. I guess it all depends on who your target audience is. If you really want end-users (libre office users) to provide backtraces, you really need to make the threshold for doing that as low as possible. I dont think it is reasonable to have end-users compile source code for themselves; especially on windows, where it requires msvc or cygwin to do so. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: I'll bring this up at our next conference call and see if there is a possible solution. Best Regards, Joel May I humbly note that I personally feel that developers should be able to produce their own backtraces, given a solid reproducible test-case in the bug report ? Perhaps effort would be better spend on: 1.) teaching end-users how to provide a reproducible test case in a bug report 2.) teaching devs on how to produce backtraces instead of: 1.) teaching end-users how to install symbol binaries and backtrace them on their platform ? Just my 2$ - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
This isn't for end-users, it's for QA team..and it's our job to do as much as possible to help the developers. I know when I'm doing the development side I appreciate whatever previous info users and QA can provide. It's maximizing the efficiency of our abilitieslimited # of developers means we should be using their time wisely, not running backtraces that someone with 1/10th of their computer programming skills could manage just fine. Best Regards, Joel On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:56 PM, John Smith lbalba...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: I'll bring this up at our next conference call and see if there is a possible solution. Best Regards, Joel May I humbly note that I personally feel that developers should be able to produce their own backtraces, given a solid reproducible test-case in the bug report ? Perhaps effort would be better spend on: 1.) teaching end-users how to provide a reproducible test case in a bug report 2.) teaching devs on how to produce backtraces instead of: 1.) teaching end-users how to install symbol binaries and backtrace them on their platform ? Just my 2$ - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] How Can I Provide More Info For Developers
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: This isn't for end-users, it's for QA team..and it's our job to do as much as possible to help the developers. I know when I'm doing the development side I appreciate whatever previous info users and QA can provide. It's maximizing the efficiency of our abilitieslimited # of developers means we should be using their time wisely, not running backtraces that someone with 1/10th of their computer programming skills could manage just fine. Best Regards, Joel Well, like I said: I guess it all depends on who your target audience is. Just keep in mind who that is, and what their expected skill set is, and adjust your procedures to that. IMHO. - John Smith. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
