Re: [libreplanet-discuss] help with FSF incompatible but community oriented licence(s)
On 12-10-04 12:14 PM, Felipe T. R. Tovar wrote: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Patrick, suppose somebody gets your code and implements improvements on it, and want to be paid for this, you would disallow somebody to charge for their work? By restricting your software to be redistributed with paid improvements, you may be restricting its improvement, and achieving your goal, to help parents of autistic children. Your free as in beer version can easily spread in the mouth-to-mouth way, so I don't think you should be that affraid of the selling of unmodified version of your software. In any way, you won't be able to fix all the problems of the world. You can create a good piece of software, and help people. You can allow them to improve it and help people further. If you think you should find another license for your software, go ahead, but I hope you realize that you can help better and more people by using a free license and running the risk of somebody fooling some parent in buying it than releasing it with a proprietary license. Sorry for my bad english. Not a native speaker. Felipe. Hi Felipe I'd better not answer this. I should wind things down now. The FSF foundation and it's members care about free software but the scope of concerns stops there. FSF compatible licences do not protect charitable software from becoming for-profit, period. I am coming up with more ideas but they will only inflame things here... I am a native English speaker and your writing is better then mine, not to worry -Patrick
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] help with FSF incompatible but community oriented licence(s)
[copy to poster] Le 03/10/2012 23:54, Patrick a écrit : My posts are confusing because I have two projects. Let me just stick to the charity one for now. I don't want parents of autistic children to have to pay for the software I am going to write to try to help them. Right now the only way it looks like I can achieve this is by shipping closed source software and I don't want to do that. Ok, I try a (long) short on the thread responses: 0) whatever closed/sewing on infringement/fs license solution, there could be unlikely some robberies, also ideas themselves cannot be copyrighted and you will experience clones if there is a market. 1) As I said, VIM /is a charity-ware/ which /can also be distributed as GPL/ an I'm not aware of any GPL distribution nor any robbery, while only a few persons afford (volunteer basis). And if I red right that last point is not an issue for you. 2) As another post said, /you can enforce some terms with GPLv3/. 3) As another post said /it's up to you/ to make publicity of how your software can helps parents/children, /especially at no cost/ (I add some tips): * I expect there are numerous non-profit associations in favor of that persons: post on their mailing-lists, and please contacts their leaders * I expect there are medical associations or groups of medicine/doctors on that = same action * Numerous free software websites/blogs/... will rely a convenient article, also numerous governments raises Free Software as a good or a better solution (starting from South America) and actively promote it. * In addition, in order to solve the narrow bandwith problem (e.g. in Africa) and the robbery problem I pointed on Dia, offer yourself for a few (copying, shipping) hard copies (cdrom, or DVD) of your software on as numerous as you can commercial sites such as amazon, e-bay, priceminister, etc, despite their evil philosophy for most. ** Do not forget to add a free download URL such as savannah.nongnu.org (which will host you for free in an ethical way, with a project site, a static web site, a download area and a concurrent version system (CVS, SVN, ...) if you choose a convenient license and proof you have correct license notices/README/COPYING in sources) and text about your goal in announces. ** Ask permission to medical associations (after they evaluated) to publish snippets of their critics. ** Also correctly describe your software in announces with convenient generic keywords on disabilities you want fight on. * If a distributed database would help, then use affero-GPLv3 for server/database-side -- there are also Free data licenses for databases, or if you need for enforcements from GPLv3 /on both end user+server code as same licence/ which are not in A-GPL, post here and write to (fsf legal?) as should be an issue which can be solved in the future (while data(base) license *must* stay of scope of any free software license). ** unfortunately I have no idea of how to fund hosting, except the VIM method (ask for help outside license, hope for doctors or parents themselves will afford /just a little/: suggest an amount such as you can help for that project to stay alive: just donate from 1$/£/€ to at most 12$ a year by (several means, some evils but well-known), also offer for publicity on large donations (at least drug laboratories /will/ afford), even for little ones (see credits in the Blender movies). I think we can't help you more than pointing you that kind of tips. Best regards, TSFH
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] help with FSF incompatible but community oriented licence(s)
Ok, I try a (long) short on the thread responses: 0) whatever closed/sewing on infringement/fs license solution, there could be unlikely some robberies, also ideas themselves cannot be copyrighted and you will experience clones if there is a market. 1) As I said, VIM /is a charity-ware/ which /can also be distributed as GPL/ an I'm not aware of any GPL distribution nor any robbery, while only a few persons afford (volunteer basis). And if I red right that last point is not an issue for you. 2) As another post said, /you can enforce some terms with GPLv3/. 3) As another post said /it's up to you/ to make publicity of how your software can helps parents/children, /especially at no cost/ (I add some tips): * I expect there are numerous non-profit associations in favor of that persons: post on their mailing-lists, and please contacts their leaders * I expect there are medical associations or groups of medicine/doctors on that = same action * Numerous free software websites/blogs/... will rely a convenient article, also numerous governments raises Free Software as a good or a better solution (starting from South America) and actively promote it. * In addition, in order to solve the narrow bandwith problem (e.g. in Africa) and the robbery problem I pointed on Dia, offer yourself for a few (copying, shipping) hard copies (cdrom, or DVD) of your software on as numerous as you can commercial sites such as amazon, e-bay, priceminister, etc, despite their evil philosophy for most. ** Do not forget to add a free download URL such as savannah.nongnu.org (which will host you for free in an ethical way, with a project site, a static web site, a download area and a concurrent version system (CVS, SVN, ...) if you choose a convenient license and proof you have correct license notices/README/COPYING in sources) and text about your goal in announces. ** Ask permission to medical associations (after they evaluated) to publish snippets of their critics. ** Also correctly describe your software in announces with convenient generic keywords on disabilities you want fight on. * If a distributed database would help, then use affero-GPLv3 for server/database-side -- there are also Free data licenses for databases, or if you need for enforcements from GPLv3 /on both end user+server code as same licence/ which are not in A-GPL, post here and write to (fsf legal?) as should be an issue which can be solved in the future (while data(base) license *must* stay of scope of any free software license). ** unfortunately I have no idea of how to fund hosting, except the VIM method (ask for help outside license, hope for doctors or parents themselves will afford /just a little/: suggest an amount such as you can help for that project to stay alive: just donate from 1$/£/€ to at most 12$ a year by (several means, some evils but well-known), also offer for publicity on large donations (at least drug laboratories /will/ afford), even for little ones (see credits in the Blender movies). I think we can't help you more than pointing you that kind of tips. Best regards, TSFH Hi Thomas Thanks so much for taking the time to put together this detailed email. This will take some time to analyze. I really appreciate your time-Patrick
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] help with FSF incompatible but community oriented licence(s)
Le 04/10/2012 19:33, Patrick a écrit : Thanks so much for taking the time to put together this detailed email. This will take some time to analyze. I really appreciate your time-Patrick You're welcome. I forgotten: my opinion on (any, but especially that) kind of project is that publicity has to be done on a *project name* --- which can differs from software name --- more than on a person, nevertheless she's the only author :) Either you'll become a (local|peculiar domain) celebrity or not, you'll be proud the project itself is well known and... it is far more efficient in terms of visibility! The only exceptions are mathematics and (French) caves for a good reason: for last you are the inventor (in French, inventeur has a special sense for caves: /you found it/), and for first you /just/ found it (mathematics /preexists/ until someone has solution). That's just more practical to name the person than the concept. At least, even in mathematics, sometimes, Foobar has demonstrated the problem of Poincaré. HTH, TH.
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] help with FSF incompatible but community oriented licence(s)
On 10/05/2012 05:51 AM, Patrick wrote: I'd better not answer this. I should wind things down now. The FSF foundation and it's members care about free software but the scope of concerns stops there. FSF compatible licences do not protect charitable software from becoming for-profit, period. The charitable quality cannot be applied to software meaningfully. A person can be charitable, not a program. You may wish to be charitable and give copies of your program away only as gratis, but it is not then unethical for another person to be entrepreneurial and sell copies of it for profit, *if* they are conveying the four freedoms when they do. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 34, Issue 11
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Patrick patr...@spellingbeewinnars.org wrote: Hi Luke, Hi Robert Thanks for your posts today. no problem. ha. right. someone very kindly pointed out something important, which was that far from seeking commercial exploitation of the software you are writing, you are seeking the complete opposite: ensuring that nobody *ever* pays for the software, and seeking a free software license to achieve that effect. seeking to achieve this via a free software license is asking for trouble, not least because you are wandering off of the beaten track of OSI-approved licenses, and are adding a considerably onerous task (writing a license) on top of what is already a considerable task (writing some software). there is another approach that you might like to consider. i assume that there is some level of interaction between parents with autistic children or perhaps between the children themselves, which you might wish to encourage or facilitate as part of the software. if such had not occurred to you before, i encourage you to consider it, even if it is at some level banale. think chat room within multi-player online games (which is a strategically very very important part of the attraction of same). the reason why i encourage you to consider providing real-time global communications as part of the design of the software - within the software itself rather than saying for advice on how to interact with people and discuss this lovely program please go to google groups or IRC or whatever is this: by having real-time communications as part of the program, you can provide a web service which presents a login welcome message, or appends to the communications - every single one if you so wish - any message of your choice, be it subtle or unsubtle. thus you could choose to in-yer-face advertise your name, services, and/or, specifically, from time to time, a message stating that this software is AGPLv3 Licensed: it is Free Software; i (mr author) specifically wish you to know that it may be obtained for free i.e. at zero monetary cost and that if you ever hear of anyone charging you for it beyond a reasonable amount for the distribution cost of the software (e.g. a CD) please inform me immediately. now, the thing is about this is that if anyone were to add in filters into the software, trying the trick of removing that message, it would be practically impossible because the communications are both real-time and random. the scammers *might* try to remove the entire real-time communications function, but if real-time communication is an integral and strategically important part of the software that everyone within the community surrounding the software uses daily, then why the bloody hell would anyone want to *buy* a version of that software which specifically didn't have that critical communications function? i therefore strongly advise you to consider the AGPLv3 (Affero GPLv3) and to also consider deploying the above strategy. apart from anything, i believe that you will find that an integrated real-time communications feature will have considerable appeal amongst the parents and children using the software. l.
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 34, Issue 11
Hi Luke Thanks for your suggestions on this. Yep, this piece sums up the situation nicely: seeking to achieve this via a free software license is asking for trouble, not least because you are wandering off of the beaten track of OSI-approved licenses, and are adding a considerably onerous task (writing a license) on top of what is already a considerable task (writing some software). Unfortunately, there isn't anything special code-wise about both the scientific instrument control program or the program to assist with special needs kids. I don't think I have the skills or time to out pace the people I don't want to cause trouble. Here is a little more details: Parents with special needs kids end up talking to all sorts of people assuming they live in the first world and don't have access to the people they need if they are not. The application will be help a lot with the first case and will do it's best to help with the second. So take for instance the communication between parent and speech therapist. They charge about $100-150 per hour and have to do lengthy intake assessments to figure out where the child is at developmentally. Later on if they are not working out, it's off to another one and more money for more assessments. Even in the first world, only the rich can pay for the therapy that is needed. Here in Canada there is some public support but 12 hours a year or so and a wait list for even this, doesn't even put a dent in the problem. I am building a database from an English dictionary(and hope to add more languages later) categorizing words by age appropriateness and proving a phonetic breakdown of the word. I hope to include photos later for prompting the child but don't know if I will be able to get a whole picture dictionary with photos I am entitled to use(Joel's schoolforge suggestion might help here). I have a back up plan if I can't though. So lets take the word ship. It's not 4 sounds it's 3. SH is not a combination of the sounds of S and H, it's it's own. Parents will be able to gather data on which words and more specifically which parts of words the child is capable of producing. So ship will have 3 widgets to allow a parent to rank each syllable. This will all go into a database and then the speech therapist will see a graph that shows the child is weak in the trailing D sounds and is missing Z etc. There will be facilities for grammar as well and other topics like motor planning, self care, social communication, self injurious behaviours/aggression etc to talk with all the other professionals. Fast data passage between professionals and parents will mean more time to talk about solutions. For the many left without any support, it will try to provide tips and I am hoping to set up a website to collect these wiki fashion as well. At the end of the day, it's really a data collection tool. In effect, so is the scientific instrument control application. Send commands, collect data, crunch data. I repair spectrometers for a living. I was outraged with how companies were treating my clients and 8 years ago I started to teach myself how to program. I had always planed on releasing the code as FLOSS software but a couple of years ago i started to see the subtle issues with free licences and now I am trying to kill the enemy without becoming the thing I hate. have a good night
