Re: [PHP-DB] ROugh idea of speed
Steve Vernon [mailto:steve;extremewattage.co.uk] wrote: Hiya, Just wondering what is the rough idea of speed of a server like this is holding a database with millions of records. I know its difficult, depends on the data stored etc. Its basically storing an index int and about 5 or so char field (50 long). In total I want to store 500 million records. Accessed using PHP. a.. 2x Intel Pentium III 1260 CPU or higher b.. 1 GB RAM c.. 60 GB hard drive d.. 20 GB traffic/month e.. RedHat LInux 7.2 Ive read that its better to store the data in different databases on the same server? Can someone please give me a rough idea of the speed and how many servers needed, my client wants to know how much it will cost to host the site. Anyone have any experience with holding a lot in MySQL? Any idea of speed would be great. One of my clients is running a special interest portal, with roughly 200-300 parallel users in peak times, and about 1000 SQL queries/sec (of which about 90% are SELECTs). For stability and scalability reasons, we have an LVS (http://linuxvirtualserver.org/) cluster for http, and 2 mysql servers (Athlon 1800+, 512 MB, SCSI-RAID) with active/active replication, having a loadaverage of about 0.10 at peak times. Our database is about 1 Gig now, storing authentication- and user data (including user-uploadable pictures, which make 600 MB by now). We had many problems with mysql running on the same machines apache was running (freezes and deadlocks with 1 httpd consuming 400+ MB and loadaverage 100+), for yet unknown reasons (kernel = 2.4.16 comes to mind...), which were all solved moving to the above configuration. I am really confident with the current setup, which is running for half a year now. But keep in mind that - most of the times - you get far more performance by optimizing your database (and queries) than by upgrading hardware (the --log-slow-queries and --log-long-format options to mysqld are your friend). Thomas -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DB] Idea as to why this query won't work as expected?
Dave Smith [mailto:DavidSmith;byu.net] wrote: I can never remember whether SQL is left-to-right, right-to-left, or some other deviant. Using parens is a sure way to guarantee that your statements are processed in the order you desire. --Dave It's easy if you remember: AND is equal to multiplication, OR is equal to addition. Multiplications are done before additions, so ANDs are done before ORs. Thomas -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DB] catalog system
Sorry, didn't want to be that offensive. It just comes through from time to time. Thomas Sparks [mailto:alex;paychoice.com] wrote: Yes, I've been trying to learn what I need. Yes, I've surfed the newbie/wanna be places. I just asked if anyone knew of one, not asking to build it for me. Thought I'd try and learn from one and make my own. If someone will point me to the Nubee-forum, I will gladly go. Wannabe Thomas Lamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:656F04F343FC25409463829A15B5FDDC08AFC4;netwake-nt.netwake.de... Doesn't seem so. Wannabes/Leechers never die. They haven't really understood what this media ought to be. Most of the time it's faster (and wiser) to switch brain on for at least ten minutes, rather than surfing beginner's guides for hours. Otherwise get yourself some training day(s). Really. [No, this was not off-topic] Thomas PS: I (and many others on the list) _like_ to help people with problems when their stuck. But from time to time this list tends to be a nubee-forum. I take time from my projects to read this list (and answer sometimes), just to give back to the community what I got - fast help when _I_ got stuck. Aaron Wolski [mailto:aaronjw;martekbiz.com] wrote: Build you own. Does no one want to 'work' for their projects these days? *shrug* Aaron -Original Message- From: Sparks [mailto:alex;paychoice.com] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DB] catalog system Greetings, I'm looking for a cataloging system. I've found some but they all deal with e-commerce, which I don't want. I'm trying to catalog items by country, then by catagories, then by items. I've been to all the regular download sites but no luck :( any help would be grateful sparks -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DB] easier way to do this? (time interval)
Hi, convert your date to UNIX_TIMESTAMP, which is number of seconds since 1.1.1970, and you can use simple math, as in $query=mysql_query( SELECT dtg FROM techs WHERE tech='$user' AND UNIX_TIMESTAMP(dtg) UNIX_TIMESTAMP(NOW()) - 86400 AND HOUR(dtg)=7 ); ... where 86400 = 24 hours (in seconds) See http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Date_and_time_functions.html#IDX1302 Thomas -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Thoenen, Peter Mr. EPS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Freitag, 11. Oktober 2002 06:34 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [PHP-DB] easier way to do this? (time interval) Hello, Curious if there is an easier way to do this (using just SQL and not PHP). SQL seems powerful enough to do this but can't think of the synatx. Note, I am using MySQL so no sub-selects (or other useful items). Basically trying to pull all records for a 24 hour period but instead of -2400, 0700-0700 (next day). if (date(H)7){ $query=mysql_query( SELECT dtg FROM techs WHERE tech='$user' AND DAYOFMONTH(NOW())=DAYOFMONTH(dtg) AND HOUR(dtg)=7 ); } else { $query=mysql_query( SELECT dtg FROM techs WHERE tech='$user' AND ( (DAYOFMONTH(NOW())=DAYOFMONTH(dtg) AND HOUR(dtg)7) OR ((DAYOFMONTH(NOW())-1)=DAYOFMONTH(dtg) AND HOUR(dtg)=7) ) ); } Cheers, -peter -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DB] Error query : mysql_result
Burgess [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: Hi I have used the mysql_result function to return some specific information from database. The information is returned as it should but I keep getting this error message: Warning: Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index 4 in /u1.bath/s31/eh842/public_html/SCR/register/process.php on line 140 My script, in part, reads as below: 133 // check to see if company exists in db 134 135 $CompanyQuery = mysql_query(SELECT coid FROM co_details 136 WHERE co_name = 137 '$company' AND co_city = '$city' AND co_country = '$co_country'); 138 139 $CompanyExist = mysql_num_rows($CompanyQuery); 140 $company_id= mysql_result($CompanyQuery,0,0); 141 142 if ($CompanyExist 0) { 143 144//if company exists add workplace details 145 $confirmkey = md5(uniqid(rand())); 146$signup_id = signup_details($username, $title, $fname, [] I have inserted the line numers where I think they are right, please correct me... This seems to be a common trivial error: in 139, you get the number of rows found, but if there are none, you try to retrieve data in line 140, where you get the error message. Exchange line 140 with 142, and the error message will go away. And please, the next time you ask here, post only code snippets (e.g. beginning of function to 2-5 lines from where you get the error), and include line numbers. Thanks. Thomas -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
AW: [PHP-DB] OT...where do I go for this......?
Have you checked apache's config file for: AddType application/x-httpd-php .php AddType application/x-httpd-php .php4 AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps ? IIRC Apache denies POST to file types not registered for... Also it may be possible that your OS upgrade has overwritten your (old, maybe handcrafted) httpd.conf. Thomas Michael Cortes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. Oktober 2002 18:52 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [PHP-DB] OT...where do I go for this..? I just checked and register_globals are on in php.ini. I have also previously been in the httpd.conf in my previous attempts to fix this problem. I have googled my fingers off and all fixes have mentioned the conf file for apache. I have played with options ExecCGI as well as other options as per google search results. BTW... I am trying to use the POST method in my php scripts. On 10 Oct 2002 at 10:20, Naved, Masroor wrote: Michael, The easist way of fixing this is to turn register_globals on. It is defaulted to off since a few versions ago, I believe. However, there are some security concerns you should be aware of with this option. Google around for some discuss about this. On 10 Oct 2002 at 12:09, John W. Holmes wrote: That would be an Apache configuration issue. Somewhere in http.conf, I think, you can choose whether or not to allow GET/POST operations. -Original Message- I am working on a simple inventory program and am running into the following messageMethod Not Allowed The requested method POST is not allowed for the URL/cafe_inventory/choose.php. Apache/1.3.23 Server at (domain.net) Port 80 If anyone can think of a mailing list, chat room, or even paid tech support to help me with this problem, I would greatly appreciate it. Michael Cortes Fort LeBoeuf School District 34 East 9th Street PO Box 810 Waterford PA 16411-0810 814.796.4795 Fax1 814.796.3358 Fax2 978-389-1258 -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DB] update and join?
Cory Hicks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: Hello to all! Quick questionis it possible to do an update query w/ a join yet? If not, what is your preferred method? Would you take care of it on the PHP side? No, it's not possible, at least not with MySQL 3.x. MySQL 4.1, currently in development, will feature nested subqueries and multi-table-updates. I need to update a table w/ data from another table if certain conditions are true, i.e the fields in the table to be joined are NULL I have to do that a couple of times, and always do it this way: Build a SELECT statement, selecting all the data you will need in the updates, and the primary key for the table which needs updates. Fetch all the data in a nested array, like this: $a = array(primary key 1 = array (col1=data1,col3=data3), primary key 2 = array (col2=data2,col3=data3), ); and then, do the updates in a neat foreach loop: foreach ($a as $pkey=$data) { [ build update stmt from $data array ] dbquery ($stmt) } Hope this helps. Thomas -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
AW: [PHP-DB] error_reporting()
Do you have display_errors = On in your php.ini ? Ryan Jameson (USA) wrote: I do the following ?PHP error_reporting(E_ALL); echo error_reporting(); ? and it says 2047 and still reports no errors. What overrides my setting? Thanks... Ryan -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
AW: [PHP-DB] getting mysql_fetch_row into array
Hi, it would have been easier to help you if you included some code snippet... Use something like this: $res = mysql_query (SELECT COUNT(deptid) FROM maintenance GROUP BY deptid); $deptcount = array(); // reset the array while ($row = mysql_fetch_row ($res)) { $deptcount[] = $row[0]; } Thomas -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: LSC Exhibits Department [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Montag, 23. September 2002 19:17 An: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Betreff: [PHP-DB] getting mysql_fetch_row into array Going through brain-lock here. From this query Select count(deptid) from maintenance group by deptid ,I get 11 rows. What I need to do is get an array like $a=array(315,11,43,67,415,32,25,63,93,46,76) from this query, so that $a[0]=315 $a[1]=11 $a[2]=43 and so on. The best I can get is ; $a[0][0]=315 $a[0][1]=11 $a[0][2]=43 and so on. Does anyone have any ideas??? John Coder -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
AW: [PHP-DB] Large files using phpMyAdmin
Hi, 1. Problem (Uploads) Have a look at your php.ini, max_upload_size is 2 MB per default, you may wish to increase this. Not sure if phpMyAdmin has another parameter to configure this... 2. Problem (pics messed up) Seems to be some magic quotes problem. In your php.ini, check magic_qoutes_gpc and magic_quotes. Can't tell how you designed picture uploads, but if you did it the right way (my opinion, no flames :-), both need to be Off. Thomas Von: Steve Vernon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. September 2002 20:00 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [PHP-DB] Large files using phpMyAdmin Hiya, So on the net I ask for a dump of my database using myPHPadmin, get a 2mb sql file. Put it in my local copy of myphpadmin and it wont accept it. If I remove some of the lines then it works so I suppose its something to do with the size. Can this be fixed? Is it to do with timeouts? The other problem is that I store pictures in the database, about 1.8mb worth. They look fine on the net but when i download they are messed up!!! They used to till I formatted my hard disk, what have I done wrong? Please! Just a quick note I have not got a command line access to the online server only using myphpadmin and I have tried getting a dump using IE and Netscape to see if it was IE messing the file up! Thanks a lot, Steve -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
AW: [PHP-DB] strange behavior
Hi, this isn't essantially DB-related It's a feature called transparent session id (activated at compile time with --enable-trans-sid). No need for ?=session_name().'='.session_id()? in most cases, as it is automatically added by PHP. And for the few times PHP can not add session information, you may use the SID define, which is automatically defined to session_name().session_id() if the user has turned off cookies. Read: http://php.net/session Thomas -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Martin Adler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. September 2002 14:34 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [PHP-DB] strange behavior Hi, i start a session on a entrypage with a form, and i wonder about the output to the browser. There appeared a input-field of the type hidden with the session-name as name and the session-id as value. How can I switch this PHP-behavior off? CODE td form name=focusedform action=index.php??=session_name().'='.session_id()? method=post input type=text name=auth_username size=22 maxlength=15 /td OUTPUT ... td form name=focusedform action=index.php?PHPSESSID=5ac37e23f46a3c2c1388201e3f4a951f method=postinput type=hidden name=PHPSESSID value=5ac37e23f46a3c2c1388201e3f4a951f / input type=text name=auth_username size=22 maxlength=15 /td ... greet Martin -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
AW: [PHP-DB] Pictures+MySQL+PHP
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Michael Waples [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Samstag, 26. Januar 2002 09:54 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [PHP-DB] Pictures+MySQL+PHP Ck Raju wrote: that I changed my mind. Gurhan OzenStoring images in the database is not a good idea , just store the path of Gurhan Ozenthe images in the database and keep your images in your hard disk... Gurhan Ozen Since everything is on hard-disk, I personally feel, the image can be stored anywhere. BLOB should be easier when doing a mysqldump, or when replication is needed. Anywhere else go in for storing images separately. Raju I prefer storing images out of the dbserver to save on server load. You can serve those images with a http server like thttpd, boa etc which will serve images quicker and with a lighter load. If you need replication just use rsync to move your images around. But if server load isn't an issue a database is as good as any place. I did a community software where users can upload pics all over the application. It is run on LVS cluster, so nobody can say to which of the cluster members the pic is uploaded to. NFS, or unattended rsync/scp has been denied by security policy, so the only way was to store the pics in the DB (mysql). I also did some performance measures, and, as all the pic requests had to go thru php (for member verification), there was practically no performance drawback; in fact, storing the pics in database was a bit quicker than getting them through the filesystem when the number of pics went above 100,000 :-) And now it is very easy to do full backups, and no problem with db/fs getting out of sync. Only one thing has given me a hard time: The first time I stored all 5 instances of an image (thumb plus 4 other resolutions) in the same db table, but mysql choked on it when it became about 200 mb (the whole server did not respond or respond veeery slow). I split the whole thing into 5 tables, and now it runs like a charm. Thomas -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DB] Retrieving Rows - Can I Change The Order?
Von: Caleb Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Samstag, 28. Juli 2001 08:26 An: Dave Watkinson; PHP-MySQL List Betreff: Re: [PHP-DB] Retrieving Rows - Can I Change The Order? Now then, I have changed a column in the table, and the only way I found to change a data type is to delete the offending column and then add it again. When I do the select now the new column, which was at $row[3] is now always $row[39]. I don't mind this, because I know where it is, but is there any way I can make it appear at $row[3] again? I'm sure you can imagine when there are quite a few pages using this code it's easier to reorder the columns in the select than to change all my if() codes! You should use mysql_fetch_array() instead of mysql_fetch_row(), so you can refer to your columns by name, as in: $q = mysql_query(select id,name from address;); $a = mysql_fetch_array ($q); == now you can use $a['id'] and $a['name'] to get the field's values. I found it always good practice to name all affected columns in a query, so you have no pain if your columns get mixed by db alters. Thomas -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AW: [PHP-DB] Variable passing
Johannes Janson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: You can output the passed varibles from the previous page in an input type=hidden in the form of the following page. Johannes But be sure to urlencode() your data before putting in the hidden fields, and decode them when you enter the next page. Thomas Brinzoi Constantin Aurelian [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb im Newsbeitrag [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Hi ! Here is the problem: I got 8 pages, shown one after another. Each have 2 buttons (one for continue and one for abort). When I click to Continue I go to the next page. On the last page I have to submit ALL variables from these 8 pages to the database. My test shown that only the variables from the last page are filled-in and otherones are empty. I have tried with another php page that includes all 8 - include(page...). Worthless! What can I do? TIA, Constantin Brinzoi Dept. Sondaje IRECSON -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AW: [PHP-DB] syntax error - -- agghhh!
Marc S. Bragg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: Hi Anyone have any idea of what the syntax error in this statement is? else if (($op == ds) ($action == sub) ($password == $passnog) ($password) (!eregi(^([a-z0-9_]|\\-|\\.)+@(([a-z0-9_]|\\-)+\\.)+[a-z]{2,4 }$,$email)) { It worked fine until I added the tricky part: (!eregi(^([a-z0-9_]|\\-|\\.)+@(([a-z0-9_]|\\-)+\\.)+[a-z]{2,4 }$,$email) You are missing a ) to close the if expression Thomas -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AW: [PHP-DB] Concurrent update to database (PostgreSQL or MySQL) ??
Another way is to keep another unique value inside the table to be updated and remember it. When needed, I add a second unique column to the table (in my case a char(64)) which is filled with the current timestamp and some md5 checksum. I select this value before the update, pass it along with the HTML form, and, before updating, I re-select the row to be updated and compare the keys. If the comparision fails, the user is presented a warning message, else I do the update (the user's data and a new generated stamp-value) with the primary key _and_ the original stamp in the where clause. Then I check if my new stamp made it to the table, or present another warning. A sample: Table atable: id int not null primary key stamp char(64) not null unique avalue int select id,stamp,avalue from atable where id=1 (select data for update) build html form with "id" and "stamp" as hidden values select stamp from atable where id=the_id if stamp(form) != stamp(db) error (e.g. start from beginning) else construct new_stamp update atable set avalue=new,stamp=new_stamp where id=the_id AND stamp=old_stamp select stamp from atable where id=the_id if stamp(db) != new_stamp error endif endif It's a bit of work, but it had never let me down. Thomas id INT NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT PRIMARY KEY Is what I use in the WHERE clause to update data ts CHAR(32) NOT NULL UNIQUE I -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Doug Semig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. April 2001 20:48 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [PHP-DB] Concurrent update to database (PostgreSQL or MySQL) ?? As others have mentioned, this is a tricky thing to do. What others haven't mentioned is a way to do it. Let's say you just showed the update form to two users. It contains the fields that they are allowed to update and the values in those fields had been retreived from the database. Both users see a form like this: Today's High Temperature City: Detroit Temp (degrees F): 47 ( Submit ) The city field is not available for update (presumably the editor/user selected it off of a previous menu), and their task is to update today's high temperature for Detroit. One of the editors has information that the high temperature reached 49 degrees F, and the other editor has information that the high temperature has reached 50. (Perhaps one of the editors is overworked and hadn't gotten to enter the new high, or the temperature is changing very quickly.) So one of the people enter 50 and the other enters 49. Both hit submit. What needs to be done right at that moment to protect it from changing the value to 50 degrees (which is the correct, most recent, data) and then immediately changing the value to 49 degrees (which is now out of date)? Basically, you have to pass the original value to the script that is the ACTION of the HTML form. This way, you have the original value that may have been updated and the new value. The first thing the HTML form's ACTION script has to do is get the record from the database again. (Use SELECT ... FOR UPDATE if available, so the RDBMS might lock the row.) If the value you get from the SELECT is the same as the original value, go ahead and run the UPDATE to change the value to the new value. If not, then generate and display a screen telling the editor that the value has been updated by someone else...you can show the value and ask if they want to proceed with the update, but that's all up to you and/or your interface designers. This is all similar to how folks design old fashioned screen-oriented database systems (like with CICS). Good luck, Doug At 01:47 PM 4/18/01 +0200, Nicolas Guilhot wrote: Hi, How can I avoid two or more users to update the same record at the same time ? Ideally, I would like to lock the record when a user open it for modification. So if another user try to open the same record he'll be warned or get record values as read only. Is this possible and how to do it with PHP ?? How can I know that the user that has locked the record has finished with it, if he never commits his changes ? Is there an FAQ about this ? Regards, Nicolas -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]