Re: resident package database update

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Mittwoch, den 13.07.2016, 00:30 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:

> "Snaps don’t intrinsically depend on the Ubuntu store, that’s just what
> snapd does today, and we expect people will have different stores for
> their snaps in future." - http://snapcraft.io/
> 
and for the record:

ogra@styx:~$ sudo snap install snapstore-example
42.55 MB / 42.55 MB
[=]
 100.00 % 3.87 MB/s 

Name   Version  Rev  Developer  Notes
snapstore-example  0.3  4noise  -
ogra@styx:~$

(in case you ever want to run your own store :) )

ciao
oli


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Re: resident package database update

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 20:14:49 -0300, Sergio Schvezov wrote:
>So it feels this is about searching and installing and more about
>aggregating than sharing the same database?

They share virtual the same data base ;). If two management systems
would share the same database, they would become a new, third package
management ;). Users might not care about what happens under the
hood, especially those who prefer a GUI over command line tools
to maintain their installs.

GUIs don't make life always easier, since command line tools could be
used in combination with other command line tools and handy bashisms,
so tailored installs could be easier realized by using command line.



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Re: resident package database update

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 13:51:34 -0700, Seth Arnold wrote:
>I can understand the desire but this would lead to an incredible
>increase in complexity

Not necessarily.

For Arch Linux a developer introduced a tool for Flatpak that should
become more or less equal to the official package management. IIUC the
developer also was thinking about integration into the official package
manager, but I guess there is no acceptance. What I'm tying to say
is, that it is possible to integrate snaps, Flatpak, Nix/Guix or what
ever else to the already existing package management of a distro.
Imagine you even could write a simple wrapper that handles both, the
distro's package management and snaps. I'm very skeptic regarding the
idea of the snap, Flatak etc. approach. Developers from upstream and
some PPAs already provide installs to /opt, that perfectly integrate to
the rest of the install, but that don't use shared libs, instead they
ship with all the required dependencies. IMO the /opt approach is
better.

However,

"Snaps don’t intrinsically depend on the Ubuntu store, that’s just what
snapd does today, and we expect people will have different stores for
their snaps in future." - http://snapcraft.io/

Assumed there should be acceptance for e.g. snaps, then distros most
likely will provide their own tools. Not necessarily a "store", but
much likely an integration to the already existing package management.
This would not mix e.g. deb, rpm, pacman with snaps, just the
management of both, the classic package management and the snaps could
be handled by one tool.

For Arch Linux there are already tools available, that handle official
packages providing binaries with the official tool to build from
source, so that building software from source from a user
repository, could be done by the same commands, that are used to
install binaries from official repositories. Actually such tools are
just wrappers. The difference to integrating snaps just is, that those
tools build regular packages, but a wrapper also could handle different
formats.

2 Cents,
Ralf


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Re: resident package database update

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Dienstag, den 12.07.2016, 15:31 +0300 schrieb Mihamina
RAKOTOMANDIMBY:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 14:02:51 +0200
> Oliver Grawert  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Snap can install packages on several distribution:
> > > - When installing on Debian (+derivatives) is the dpkg database
> > > updated?
> > > - When installing on RedHat/OpenSuse (+derivatives) is the rpm
> > > database updated?
> > > 
> > > Is there a plan for that or is it just no go?  
> > what would you expect there to be added ?
> > (they are widely different package formats (and concepts) each
> > using
> > their own DB and meta data)
> I just expect integration to the existing system.
> 
> If a package is added via Snap I find it fair to be added to the
> existing package database.
> 
> Yes it would cover a wide basis, but it makes sense to me. Doesn't
> it?

snaps are not like debs or rpms, you can have a ton of different
binaries and libs inside ... and these binaries and libs might not even
be named like the content of the rpm/deb ... how would you translate
that into a rpm/deb db entry ?

snaps can also be built from debs/rpms or upstream git trees tarballs
or whatever else upstream source exists, if my snap ships libfoo,
libfoo can not be seen from the normal system (only the binary using
libfoo inside teh snap can see it), and libfoo could be the last git
trunk version vs some stable release the distro provides.

you can surely have the interconnection between package db's on a very
high level (like we do in gnome-software in ubuntu for example), but i
doubt it makes much sense to mix up packaging systems that are
conceptual so extremely different.

ciao
oli

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Re: resident package database update

[Mihamina RAKOTOMANDIMBY]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 14:02:51 +0200
Oliver Grawert  wrote:

> > Snap can install packages on several distribution:
> > - When installing on Debian (+derivatives) is the dpkg database
> > updated?
> > - When installing on RedHat/OpenSuse (+derivatives) is the rpm
> > database updated?
> > 
> > Is there a plan for that or is it just no go?  
> 
> what would you expect there to be added ?
> (they are widely different package formats (and concepts) each using
> their own DB and meta data)

I just expect integration to the existing system.

If a package is added via Snap I find it fair to be added to the
existing package database.

Yes it would cover a wide basis, but it makes sense to me. Doesn't it?
(I'm really asking, from my POV)



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Re: resident package database update

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Dienstag, den 12.07.2016, 14:49 +0300 schrieb Mihamina
RAKOTOMANDIMBY:
> Hi all,
> 
> Snap can install packages on several distribution:
> - When installing on Debian (+derivatives) is the dpkg database updated?
> - When installing on RedHat/OpenSuse (+derivatives) is the rpm database
>   updated?
> 
> Is there a plan for that or is it just no go?

what would you expect there to be added ?
(they are widely different package formats (and concepts) each using
their own DB and meta data)

ciao
oli


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resident package database update

[Mihamina RAKOTOMANDIMBY]

Hi all,

Snap can install packages on several distribution:
- When installing on Debian (+derivatives) is the dpkg database updated?
- When installing on RedHat/OpenSuse (+derivatives) is the rpm database
  updated?

Is there a plan for that or is it just no go?

Thank you.

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