[Talk-GB] railway=halt

[jc...@mail.com]

On 01/02/2020 12:08, David Woolley wrote:
> That was certainly the context in which I came across them, in this
> case, Warrenby Halt, on the, then British Steel iron works at Redcar,
> which has now been mothballed, after only a short life.

> That one was actually on private land.  It used to be about here
> .
>   It may well have gone, but, also just might never have been mapped.
> (Please note that the relationship to features now mapped may be wrong
> by up to a few hundred metres.)

Looking at old maps on the NLS website, Warrenby Halt was here

on the old route of the railway. The current alignment to the southeast
opened in 1978, and as you can see on aerial imagery nothing remains of
this halt today.

Jez C

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Re: [Talk-GB] railway=halt

[Dave F via Talk-GB]

On 01/02/2020 12:40, Tony OSM wrote:

Hi

Great to see your station work.


Thanks



I agree they should all be station.

If DfT classifies stations as A-F or whatever then a tag to indicate 
that would be useful. These DfT classifications seem to be used by the 
rail industry to indicate roughly importance by passenger numbers, 
from which they base some decisions/discussions as to whether they 
should be staffed or unstaffed or the hours of staffing. There was a 
recent discussion about Chorley which from the publicly reported 
discussion I believe to be class C.


This would be a useful addition. The last publication date was 2009, 
however & missing about of the 50 newest stations.


Are you aware of a later issue? Has another organization squired 
responsibility?


DaveF

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Re: [Talk-GB] railway=halt

[Dave F via Talk-GB]

On 01/02/2020 10:39, Gareth L wrote:

Just to throw in some awkward cases, there are stations which are request stops 
in one direction only. E.g. Llanwrda is request stop southbound but always 
stops northbound.

Basing use of this tag on service pattern, which changes every 6 months seems 
not so easy to maintain.


Hi
Your first point is true, but it's still classed as a request stop. 
Basic variations in when trains don't stop can be dealt with in other 
secondary tags if really required.


I'm unsure twice a year is frequent enough to consider updating as 
difficult.


DaveF.

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Re: [Talk-GB] railway=halt

[Tony OSM]

Hi

Great to see your station work.

I agree they should all be station.

If DfT classifies stations as A-F or whatever then a tag to indicate 
that would be useful. These DfT classifications seem to be used by the 
rail industry to indicate roughly importance by passenger numbers, from 
which they base some decisions/discussions as to whether they should be 
staffed or unstaffed or the hours of staffing. There was a recent 
discussion about Chorley which from the publicly reported discussion I 
believe to be class C.


Knowing request stops is helpful.

TonyS999

On 31/01/2020 23:49, Dave F via Talk-GB wrote:

Hi
Over the past few months I've been sorting & adding detail to the UK's 
National Rail railway stations so that OSM has the correct amount.


I'm unsure of the benefits of tagging some of them as 'halts'. I'm 
proposing they should all be 'station'.


All 2567 NR Stations with 96 halts in blue: 
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qik


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dhalt
Determining based on size, as the wiki suggests, is too subjective 
IMO.  How is 'size' determined? The number of platforms? Tracks? 
Passenger usage (which fluctuates)? Note, OSM doesn't have an 
equivalent tag to distinguish really big stations..


Another factor is if they're request stops. This is a much more 
appropriate criteria. I've now added them with the more explicit tag 
'request_stop=yes'.


All 137 Request Stops in blue: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qil
65 of these are already tagged a stations.

British Rail remove all references to halts (1974?)
There are only two which have since been renamed to include halt. It 
appears to be for purely cosmetic reasons. (The locals probably think 
it'll increase property values).


I've contacted Thunderforest and OpenRailMap. Neither make a 
distinction between halts & stations in their renders.
Carto label them the same but display halts at a higher zoom level, 
which personally, I find irritating.


Opinions/Suggestions?

Cheers
DaveF

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Re: [Talk-GB] railway=halt

[David Woolley]

On 01/02/2020 09:26, Philip Barnes wrote:

In GB halt has been used to indicate request stops.


That was certainly the context in which I came across them, in this 
case, Warrenby Halt, on the, then British Steel iron works at Redcar, 
which has now been mothballed, after only a short life.


That one was actually on private land.  It used to be about here 
. 
 It may well have gone, but, also just might never have been mapped. 
(Please note that the relationship to features now mapped may be wrong 
by up to a few hundred metres.)


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Re: [Talk-GB] railway=halt

[Gareth L]

Just to throw in some awkward cases, there are stations which are request stops 
in one direction only. E.g. Llanwrda is request stop southbound but always 
stops northbound.

Basing use of this tag on service pattern, which changes every 6 months seems 
not so easy to maintain.

Gareth


On 1 Feb 2020, at 09:26, Philip Barnes  wrote:
> 
> In GB halt has been used to indicate request stops. 
> 
> That is the how they are described by train staff, as opposed to Principal 
> Stations where the train always stops.
> 
> You will find lots of halts on the Cambrian, Heart of Wales and three on the 
> Shrewsbury Crew Railway.
> 
> Typical announcement which is ingrained on my memory is 'This train is for 
> Crewe, we will be calling at the following principal stations, Wem, 
> Whitchurch, Nantwich and Crewe. Yorton, Prees and Wrenbury are request stops 
> and you must notify the conductor if you wish to alight.
> 
> The on train displays only list the principal stations.
> 
> Certainly request_stop is clearer.
> 
> Phil (trigpoint)
> 
> 
>>> On Saturday, 1 February 2020, Dave F via Talk-GB wrote:
>> Hi
>> Over the past few months I've been sorting & adding detail to the UK's
>> National Rail railway stations so that OSM has the correct amount.
>> I'm unsure of the benefits of tagging some of them as 'halts'. I'm
>> proposing they should all be 'station'.
>> All 2567 NR Stations with 96 halts in blue: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qik
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dhalt
>> Determining based on size, as the wiki suggests, is too subjective IMO.  
>> How is 'size' determined? The number of platforms? Tracks? Passenger
>> usage (which fluctuates)? Note, OSM doesn't have an equivalent tag to
>> distinguish really big stations..
>> Another factor is if they're request stops. This is a much more
>> appropriate criteria. I've now added them with the more explicit tag
>> 'request_stop=yes'.
>> All 137 Request Stops in blue: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qil
>> 65 of these are already tagged a stations.
>> British Rail remove all references to halts (1974?)
>> There are only two which have since been renamed to include halt. It
>> appears to be for purely cosmetic reasons. (The locals probably think
>> it'll increase property values).
>> I've contacted Thunderforest and OpenRailMap. Neither make a distinction
>> between halts & stations in their renders.
>> Carto label them the same but display halts at a higher zoom level,
>> which personally, I find irritating.
>> Opinions/Suggestions?
>> Cheers
>> DaveF
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> 
> -- 
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Re: [Talk-GB] railway=halt

[Philip Barnes]

In GB halt has been used to indicate request stops. 

That is the how they are described by train staff, as opposed to Principal 
Stations where the train always stops.

You will find lots of halts on the Cambrian, Heart of Wales and three on the 
Shrewsbury Crew Railway.

Typical announcement which is ingrained on my memory is 'This train is for 
Crewe, we will be calling at the following principal stations, Wem, Whitchurch, 
Nantwich and Crewe. Yorton, Prees and Wrenbury are request stops and you must 
notify the conductor if you wish to alight.

The on train displays only list the principal stations.

Certainly request_stop is clearer.

Phil (trigpoint)
 

On Saturday, 1 February 2020, Dave F via Talk-GB wrote:
> Hi
> Over the past few months I've been sorting & adding detail to the UK's 
> National Rail railway stations so that OSM has the correct amount.
> 
> I'm unsure of the benefits of tagging some of them as 'halts'. I'm 
> proposing they should all be 'station'.
> 
> All 2567 NR Stations with 96 halts in blue: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qik
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dhalt
> Determining based on size, as the wiki suggests, is too subjective IMO.  
> How is 'size' determined? The number of platforms? Tracks? Passenger 
> usage (which fluctuates)? Note, OSM doesn't have an equivalent tag to 
> distinguish really big stations..
> 
> Another factor is if they're request stops. This is a much more 
> appropriate criteria. I've now added them with the more explicit tag 
> 'request_stop=yes'.
> 
> All 137 Request Stops in blue: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qil
> 65 of these are already tagged a stations.
> 
> British Rail remove all references to halts (1974?)
> There are only two which have since been renamed to include halt. It 
> appears to be for purely cosmetic reasons. (The locals probably think 
> it'll increase property values).
> 
> I've contacted Thunderforest and OpenRailMap. Neither make a distinction 
> between halts & stations in their renders.
> Carto label them the same but display halts at a higher zoom level, 
> which personally, I find irritating.
> 
> Opinions/Suggestions?
> 
> Cheers
> DaveF
> 
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>

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