[Bug 927636] Re: plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in script_obj_deref_direct()
Still happens on 16.04, on multiple machines, all fresh installs. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/927636 Title: plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in script_obj_deref_direct() To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/plymouth/+bug/927636/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Well. Apparently this bug was partially fixed for 16.04 by Marco Trevisan, in a hidden way: http://news.softpedia.com/news/it-s-official-ubuntu-16-04-lts-now-lets- you-move-the-unity-launcher-to-bottom-501932.shtml https://plus.google.com/u/0/+MarcoTrevisan/posts/X46usgf7gSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpOJJZFnv4s And it only took six years. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1511002] Re: Computer freezes/crashes while using GNOME
Some people think it's this kernel bug, related to Intel Bay Trail: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051 The workaround is to boot your kernel with the following parameter: intel_idle.max_cstate=1 (Add it to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in /etc/default/grub, and then run update-grub). -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1511002 Title: Computer freezes/crashes while using GNOME To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/1511002/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1550789] [NEW] Apt supports only up to 40 GPG keys and provides unhelpful error messages when there are more than 40
Public bug reported: First of all, the 40 key limit is unrealistic for heavy Ubuntu users. None of my 40+ keys is meaningless. I use many repositories, including PPAs, for various reasons. But, when you do hit the limit, you get very unhelpful error messages, such as this: W: GPG error: http://mirrors.gigenet.com trusty Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 40976EAF437D05B5 NO_PUBKEY 3B4FE6ACC0B21F32 Nowhere are you told that you have too many keys, and nowhere do you get a suggestion no how to solve this error. See, for example, this bug for the confusion that this causes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1263540 ** Affects: apt (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1550789 Title: Apt supports only up to 40 GPG keys and provides unhelpful error messages when there are more than 40 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1550789/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1313032] Re: Compose key is not working in Xubuntu 14.04
I solved this problem for myself by installing IBus. IBus is not installed by default in Xubuntu 14.04. (I then had to configure Xfce to use IBus via Settings - Input Method, and then logout/login.) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1313032 Title: Compose key is not working in Xubuntu 14.04 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1313032/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1313032] Re: Compose key is not working in Xubuntu 14.04
I agree with that decision, however it did break the compose key. This is thus still a bug. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1313032 Title: Compose key is not working in Xubuntu 14.04 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1313032/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 522509] Re: [FFE] tftpd-hpa doesn't start on boot
Richard Sarkis is exactly correct: the problem exists in 14.04, and his solution works. The problem indeed did not exist in 12.04. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Server Team, which is subscribed to tftp-hpa in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/522509 Title: [FFE] tftpd-hpa doesn't start on boot To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/522509/+subscriptions -- Ubuntu-server-bugs mailing list Ubuntu-server-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server-bugs
[Bug 522509] Re: [FFE] tftpd-hpa doesn't start on boot
Richard Sarkis is exactly correct: the problem exists in 14.04, and his solution works. The problem indeed did not exist in 12.04. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/522509 Title: [FFE] tftpd-hpa doesn't start on boot To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/522509/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1313032] [NEW] Compose key is not working in Xubuntu 14.04
Public bug reported: Setting the compose key in xfce4-keyboard-settings seems to have no effect. This worked fine in Xubuntu 13.10. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 14.04 Package: xfce4-settings 4.11.2-1ubuntu2 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 3.13.0-24.46-generic 3.13.9 Uname: Linux 3.13.0-24-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia ApportVersion: 2.14.1-0ubuntu3 Architecture: amd64 CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Apr 26 15:31:30 2014 InstallationDate: Installed on 2014-04-20 (5 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 14.04 LTS Trusty Tahr - Release amd64 (20140416.2) SourcePackage: xfce4-settings UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) ** Affects: xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New ** Tags: amd64 apport-bug trusty -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1313032 Title: Compose key is not working in Xubuntu 14.04 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1313032/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking its Launcher Icon
I'm sorry, but it's hard for me to be happy with this fix. Why hide it away? Why not make it a public option in Unity settings? Most Ubuntu users will have no idea that this option is available. Those who will discover it will be baffled by how hard it is to enable (or disable) it. We are trying to make Ubuntu better for everyone, not just fulill the needs of a few users. The only thing being compromized here is user friendliness. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking its Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Really appreciate your updating us on the vision. You're mistaken about the modularity of Unity7: it's impossible right now pick and chose components. Unity7 is an either-or affair: if you want to use Launchy, you will have to deal with the Unity Launcher still being on screen, which is of course unfeasible, which in turn is why for many of us posting had to switch, with sadness, to a different, less beautiful, less ergonomic desktop environment (Xfce for me). The last version of Unity that supported modularity was Unity2D, for which each component was its own executable launched at startup: thus easy to turn off the Launcher and run something else instead. It was great! I even wrote a guide for how to replace the Launcher. Now, that was a Unity I could use in my everyday work. (The component I most want to replace is the Dash, actually: I yearn for the simple functionality of Whisker Menu.) As far as I can tell, Unity 8 is also monolithic. *Unless* you, as SABDFL, decree that there should be a checkbox (even a hidden system setting) that allows individual Unity components to be turned off. To paraphrase Mao Zedong: Let 100 desktop configurations blossom! Also: I have to disagree about hardcoding user expectations -- I'm left-handed myself (also a right-to-left native language speaker!) -- and appreciate the ability to flip these things around. I hold my phone with my left hand, and things are always a bit more difficult for me than for others. Allowing users to assign any one functionality to any one edge would be best. I also think hardcoding developer expectations can end up shooting you in the foot -- what if some day you want to expand the Unity experience? Say, Unity running inside Oculus Rift with an entirely different UX? Would developers have to rewrite all apps for the new API? It's best to keep the API as generic *as possible* and not let developers program towards UI expectations, especially for things as ephemeral as screen locations. I wish you a delightful, troll-free holiday season! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Thanks, Mark! Can't speak for everyone else here, but I think being able to use an alternative Launcher would provide a partial workaround for this bug, allowing for it to be closed as fixed. However, I still think it's important to allow the other components to be turned off (Dash and top Panel). I hope you won't be opposed to that. I see this simple feature (modularity) as a big advantage at very little cost to the Unity project. It will allow other creative developers to create alternative ways to using Unity. And who knows, you might really like some of these alternatives. It's great that you've prototyped various ideas -- but those were just the ideas your team came up with. The big world out there might offer something new and refreshing that none of us can foresee. And it will also allow us to implement a classic desktop remix of Unity: something would shut up all us whiners for good. ;) Remember, it's you that's been touting Ubuntu Phone as a truly open phone. Sure, people might write new skins for it to replace Unity, but having Unity itself be open would allow for potentially awesome remixes. Again, at trivial cost to the Unity project. You would be able to continue going deep with your vision. I know I'll be the first in line for a mobile device that I can plug into a big monitor and get a full desktop! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 577919] Re: chromium-browser fails to start (guest account, OpenVZ): Failed to move to new PID namespace: Operation not permitted
Can this fix *please* be backported to Precise? We follow the Ubuntu recommendations in using LTS releases for our large computer, but we are hurting right now because we are unable to offer Google Chrome to our guest users. This is a major bug! It breaks one of the most commonly used programs in Ubuntu. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/577919 Title: chromium-browser fails to start (guest account, OpenVZ): Failed to move to new PID namespace: Operation not permitted To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/+bug/577919/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 850229] Re: Unread email count in thunderbird shown wrongly in messaging menu and launcher icon
Bug still exists in Ubuntu 13.04, Thunderbird 17.0.5 (clean install). -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/850229 Title: Unread email count in thunderbird shown wrongly in messaging menu and launcher icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/messagingmenu-extension/+bug/850229/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@Adam You make some strange arguments here. FOSS philosophy has nothing to do with customization. It's about providing access to the source code. The Unity project is 100% FOSS (GPL/LGPLv3). Ubuntu's goals might be different from yours. You might want to have a desktop perfectly configured for your needs. The Ubuntu project is trying to make a free operating system for the masses. Mark is clear that in trying to achieve these goals he will 1) be taking bold risks, and 2) he will not meet everybody's needs. Time will tell if he's on the right path. I personally have many doubts, because when I've introduced Ubuntu and Unity to new people -- and I've done this a lot, in professional and personal contexts -- I've heard a lot of frustrations about its usability, configurability and stability. And so I've stopped recommending the regular Ubuntu, and instead recommend Xubuntu, which is *awesome*. But, maybe we got it all wrong and Mark got it right and Unity will make people flock to Ubuntu. Adam, you make a comparison to Apple: well, the Apple UI has proven itself very popular with the masses. So, maybe Mark (and GNOME) is on to something in trying to emulate their approach. To the Ubuntu project's *great* credit, it offers support (in terms of computing, bandwidth and other resources, if not personnel) to *several* different flavors. While GNOME 3 seems to have the same general goals as Unity, the others absolutely do not, and will likely better suit your personal needs. Xubuntu is still Ubuntu, with the excellent repositories, PPA, and the entire ecosystem. It is an excellent and free operating system. My problem, and it is central to this particular bug about making the Launcher movable, is not Unity's philosophy but the fact that it's essentially *broken* for certain setups, such as multimonitor and right- to-left setups. Unity should not be the default desktop, or at least it should have a big disclaimer up front that it is an experimental desktop interface, with an easy path (one click!) to let users install and use something that is proven to work. Actually, there is a second problem: Mark has made me not want to help the Unity project. He has alienated many long-time Ubuntu supporters by his abrupt closure of bugs like this, with little or misleading communication about the reasons. So, yeah, no way I will contribute my programming skills to it. But I do love Xfce and will do my best to open bugs, submit patches, and spread the love. :) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Pavel Golikov (Paullo) worked hard and created a patch. His code is still available here: https://code.launchpad.net/~paullo612/unity/unityshell-rotated As to whether it was not good enough quality to be merged into Unity, well, nothing about that was updated in this bug. There may have been personal communications with Pavel which we were not privy to. The episode definitely dissuaded anybody from doing any further work on it. (I was personally working on a similar patch when Pavel made his public.) Actually, Mark did not call for patches, but suggested that we fork Unity instead. But that's not really what dissuaded us: as so many have pointed out, whenever Mark intervened in this bug it was to *discourage* us from fixing it. The bottom line seemed to be not quality or manpower (red herrings) but mysterious design goals. No amount of patching could fix those. :/ An executive decision was set that this simply won't be fixed. Mark, it's unfortunate that you always seem to take these things personally and think that it is a matter of not appreciating the work being done. In interviews, too, you always imply that we complainers just want some pet features fix and whine about it while not wanting to do the work. That's a caricature of what's going on. Some of us do indeed whine, but you are picking at these few examples as a straw target and ignoring the core criticisms: 1) the flippant rejection of this feature request, 2) the lack of a transparent explanation for the decision, and 3) the rejection of advice from long-time Ubuntu users and supporters -- critical as an ongoing mass of good will proliferating Ubuntu in the office and at home (and soon, on the go) -- in favor of a set of newbs participating in usability testing. It hurts, man. We've supported this project for years, and now we're being called children. One thing I agree with you strongly: everybody should read through the long history of this bug. It will remain as a monument, and hopefully a lesson to others, for how not engage your community of supporters. It created unfortunate ill will. Mark blames us, but the record is here and anyone can judge for themselves. It could have been so easy to do things differently: instead of won't fix, there could have been a call for people to submit patches to test the viability of a fix, even with a long-term timeline. This could have been a wonderful moment for community involvement, bringing more people into the project with enthusiasm and excitement. Anyway, the record is here. Thank you for your efforts. I and most people posting here deeply appreciate them, whether you believe it or not. You've done great things for free software, and I believe for freedom generally. I sincerely hope that your gamble on manic innovation at the cost of pleasing the long-term community of Ubuntu supporters will pay off in the long run, and will bring truly free software to the masses. That is a goal we all share. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Now it's clear that instead of being transparent the whole time and just telling the community why decisions were being made, we were fed vague explanations that made us feel disrespected and excluded from the process. -- The Community (well, me speaking for it... ;) Mark, nice of you to chime in, but too bad it's just to oddly pat yourself on the back -- you haven't really vindicated yourself by announcing that it works -- and have not answered the many very reasonable questions and comments in this very long bug report. (Yes, there are some shrill comments that deserve ignoring, but not the whole bug.) I guess we know the answer now: desktop users have had a bad idea inflicted on them because Canonical was aiming for a consistent experience across all devices. I guess it would be confusing if phone users would be able to switch around the use of the different edges. (Looking at the Ubuntu Phone videos, it already seems like it may take some learning to get used to the gestures and edges.) I guess the aim is for anyone to be able to pick up an Ubuntu device and expect the Launcher to be on the left. I guess managing this expectation, which is something of a branding issue as much as a usability issue, is more important than personal customizability. Just as phone users have come to expect that notifications are always at the top (on all OSes), Canonical hopes they will come to expect that the Launcher is on the left. OK, I kinda get all that, though I expect many phone/tablet users will disagree. (I own a Nexus 10, which has a very elongated aspect ratio. I expect that in portrait modem having the Launcher on the left will just take up too much real estate, and that I would want to -- but won't be able to -- put it on the top or bottom.) But this bug was opened for the desktop. I won't reiterate the many reasons that it's a bad idea to lock the Launcher to the left on the desktop, it's all in this bug. Community members have taken the time to carefully explain the issue at length. For me, the real bafflement of this long bug is not that it was summarily shut down, but how Mark and the Ubuntu team have responded to it. We were told about vague broader design goals, but weren't told exactly what Canonical was thinking about in terms phones and tablets. Of course, we know exactly why we weren't told this: desktop users would have *roasted* the Ubuntu team for sacrificing an essential desktop feature on the altar of the Ubuntu brand and managing user expectations on phones. So, I guess Mark was just thinking that he would be roasted either way, and preferred not to provide details. Well, he's earned his roasting fair and square now, and I hope to community will continue to dog him and Canonical on the quality of the desktop experience. Less baffling and more insulting were the red herrings we were tossed: lame, transparent excuses about having to have the Launcher integrated with the BFB, or complaints about how much work it would take to make the Launcher movable, or after that complaints about how much QA it would take -- after a community member tried to provide a patch that allowed movement. An insulting waste of time for all off us, when the real issue all along was Mark thinking about user expectations on the phone. It's like we're just this annoyance, and we're told anything at all to make us go away. We're not whining (as Mark calls it) because we want a pet feature for ourselves. We're sincerely worried about Ubuntu's ability to compete, succeed and conquer. And it's not just the Launcher issue, but also the meta-issue of listening to community concerns, treating us with respect, and especially treating our *informed opinions* with respect, informed through years of use of the operating system that you stapled together from thousands of free software projects. We use Ubuntu every day, at home and at our workplaces, across hundreds of desktops in the enterprise, thousands of VMs in the cloud. We know what we're talking about and you should listen to us. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@Benajmin, Unfortunately your attitude exemplifies the problem. I don't know how you define community, but Launchpad and all the people posting here (and on the related bugs) are an obvious part of the community of Ubuntu users. As are journalists, bloggers, and managers of such sites as Distrowatch. Your blatant disrespect for all of these -- while at the same time claiming victory! -- is a sure sign of being out- of-touch, and ultimately failing. What happened is that the Unity team has surrounded itself with yes-men, contributers who are pre-selected for supporting the decisions, and so for insiders there is an illusion that everything is great. This was the core of my argument with Shuttleworth: he really dislikes my using the terms insider vs. outsider in discussing the Unity and Ubuntu community, but statements such as yours, Benjamin, make it crystal clear that these terms have legs. Look, people like me are never going to be insiders. I'm too busy with other things (mostly in free software) to join all the internal mailing lists and discussions. But I depend on Ubuntu for myself and many of my clients, and I evalute, blog and proseltyze where appropriate. And, of course, I open bugs, and follow through on them, which I personally think is a very, very important community contribution, and I'm constantly exaspertated by how flippantly these bugs are closed. It's your decision to push people like me to the outside. We're sensationalists? We flip flop? Well, OK, but we're your community, and we're the key to your ongoing success... or eventual failure. Ignore us at your own risk. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@mr.goose, Marius These are good options for power users, but do not solve the core issues raised by this bug. To revise an idea I raised here before: Perhaps on the login screen (LightDM) there should already be an option to install additional desktops, using a very easy interface. Each desktop should get a description for the kind of users and workloads it is best suited for. Even better would be a screenshot-guided tour, similar perhaps to what you see during the Ubuntu Installer. Especially important (and more relevant to this bug about communication with the community) is that the description for Unity should be HONEST about its cons. I maintain that poor marketing and too high expectations are one of the main reasons Unity has been receiving so much negativity. Unity is truly a terrific desktop shell, but it's still a work in progress, and is awkward for many kinds of work habits that many computer users have. As long as users know this, they would be more inclined to experiment, more forgiving, and more ready to move to a more mature solution if they need it. This option to install additional desktops should be very prominent! You should not have to dig deep into a Launchpad issue in order to discover that you have other options... -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@Axel Napolitano I think this plea from you is the most succinct summary we've seen of the attitude problem: I hope that canonical can be a bit less dogmatic and a bit more pragmatic. A quick update: Issac Joseph has created a project called Unity Revamped which seems to address some of these pragmatic concerns (though it doesn't incorporate the movable-Launcher patch): https://launchpad.net/~ikarosdev https://launchpad.net/~ikarosdev/+archive/unity-revamped As I mentioned before, forks of Unity are not great solutions: the burden is on the dev to keep merging in the mainline code and testing it thoroughly before each release. I find it unfeasible in the long run, unless the Unity team itself incorporates these enhanced versions into their main dev/test process. Mark's comment about celebrating forks is thus a bit glib -- and non-pragammatic. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
So, with Unity 5 officially out with Ubuntu 12.04, I thought I'd test its multi-monitor support. The good news is that it is no longer totally broken. The ability to put a Launcher on each monitor *is* a solution. The option to have the Launcher only on the primary monitor (called laptop mode, for some reason) is also great for people who happen to have their primary monitor on the left, but that option always existed. There is some bad news, too. This solution is mind-boggingly awkward: 1) Waste of space! Why do I need multiple Launchers when I have one clear primary monitor? 2) Distracting! When I have an alert (wiggle), it appears on *all* Launchers. I never know quite where to look. It's like my whole setup is demanding attention from me at once. 3) Gets in the way! The default is for the mouse pointer to delay a bit on the Launcher, to make it easier for you not to miss it when you need to access it. When the Launcher is on the left side of the screen of your right-most monitor ... this is an exercise in futility. Every time I move the mouse between monitors, it seems to stick on that middle Launcher. After trying this for a day (I wanted to give Unity UX developers the benefit of the doubt), I felt like poking a stick in my eye. The whole point of having multiple monitors is for working easily with windows on all of them. But if my mouse pointer keeps sticking in the middle, this is anything but smooth. I quickly entered CCSM and disabled this heurstic (thanks for letting me!). The final judgment is this: 1) thanks for finally thinking about multi- monitor solutions, but 2) your solution is so unbelievably awkward. It seems like you would go to any bizarre lengths just to not let users decide where the best location for the Launcher in their setup would be. Lurking behind this is the fact that testing this solution with its heuristic must be incredibly difficult: you have to test both appears on all monitors and laptop (?) mode. And didn't you say that the whole reason you don't want to support a movable Launcher is that it would involve too many testing scenarios? (Well, after you said that the whole reason is that it doesn't fit your vision). It's high time we got some straight answers on this, instead of excuses. It would be even nicer to hear from the UX developers that their approach might have been wrong. But I'm not holding my breath: we live in an a bizarre era in which UX developers are given full executive power, and they're enjoying this ego-fest to the max. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@Danillo What about respect for us? What about the trouble, time and effort so many members of the community have put into commenting on this bug report? What about the years of effort we put into promoting Ubuntu in our workspaces, and among families and friends? Nobody has come out to thank us. On the contrary, we've been called nags and nuisances. Wors,t we've been told quite clearly that we just don't count: Ubuntu is designed for future users, and the usability tests are done on non- Ubuntu users. So, yeah, thanks for all the help, community, in getting Ubuntu up and running for the first few years! But, apparently, we're not so welcome anymore. Furthermore, I have to disagree with your evaluation of the arguments provided for closing this bug as reasonable. They have been shifty, contradictory, defensive, and - most importantly - opaque. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@SRoesgen Wow. And to think that all this work (on both sides) could have have been spent on: 1) working with Pavel Golikov to get his patch accepted, with it being released on the dev PPA; and 2) testing and reporting real bugs by the community to get the movable Launcher feature to full quality. Actually, scratch that. I'm confident it would have taken *less* time and effort. When did Ubuntu become such a bloated, irrational, inefficient corporate machine? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@David I've seen enough free software projects come and go in my day such that 1) I have a good sense of when leadership problems are endemic, as in Unity, and 2) I have an appreciation for the messy diversity of people involved in any given project. The combination of these two contradictory factors means that nothing is truly endemic, and a year later everything might change, either for the better or for the worse. This gives lots of reasons for hope, and also a general anxiety about free software. I lot of us were hoping that Canonical would lessen some of these anxieties, but in fact Canonical is managing Ubuntu true to the spirit of free software. Compare, for example, with Android, which is free software but managed as proprietary: once in a few months, Google dumps out some source code and that's that. So when Mark talks proudly of his commitment to community, he's entirely right to, from his perspective. My criticism is very specific, about his inability to go the extra mile towards engagement with the *user community*, not just the insider developers. The failure is collective for Unity project, and not just his, but he insists always on taking final responsibility, so there it is. I remain optimistic: Ubuntu is going through a rough patch now, due to its high ambitions and refreshingly bold approach, which presents challenges rarely seen in free software projects. The Unity project, in particular, is not handling these challenges very well, but it might get better. People will come and go, the tone may change, and in a year we might get a decision from the inside that Unity should be far more customizable. (I've predicted before that they'll *have* to make that decision.) So, David, don't think that all Ubuntu doesn't care about you. Many other projects under the Ubuntu umbrella are doing a great job, due to the particular people leading them. I'm going to continue promiting Ubuntu, but I'll also be very clear about Unity's limitations, and promote alternative desktops. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@SRoesgen Sigh. I said it before, but it's worth repeating (isn't this whole bug report about repitition? from both sides?) -- it's astounding that after all the hand-wringing about the lack of manpower available to enable a movable Launcher, the proposed solution for multi-monitor support is an order of magnitude more complicated and bug-prone. It's just sheer, childish stubborness at this point. All of the reasons provided for the won't fix on this bug (and let's remember: those kept changing) turned out to be excuses. They decided not to make the Launcher movable, and they're going to stick to that decision whatever the cost, because they're too proud. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
In my ongoing quest to find a solution for the brokenness Unity causes in my multimonitor setup -- without throwing *all* of Unity out the window -- I've been exploring LXDE and liking it a whole lot. For those who would like to try it, I wrote a guide: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11592793 It's so lean and mean! A refreshing change from the bloat (XFCE is nice, but it's not as small as you might think). The remaining option is that I break the walls in my office and staple my desk to the ceiling so that I can make sure that the leftmost monitor is my primary monitor, because that's the only configuration Unity supports. :/ -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 830333] Re: randomly, update-apt-xapi will take 100% cpu for an extended period of time
More information about the fix -- it helps, but does not solve the problem. I still get jittery video about once a day when using the netbook. I'm sure a lot users on weaker machines are having this problem, but don't know enough to diagnose what's causing it, and thus just think Ubuntu is very slow. This bug, including its older dupes, is *years* old. Can someone who knows anything about Xapian fix this? Can we at least assign it to someone who can help? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/830333 Title: randomly, update-apt-xapi will take 100% cpu for an extended period of time To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-xapian-index/+bug/830333/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@SRoesgen With 269 comments (mine is 270!), *every* aspect of this bug has been mentioned already, at least once. :) I suggest we all give it a rest. It is very clear that this bug report is not helping one bit. Mark has not budged since comment 2, and in the plans for 12.04 we see that the Unity team is prepared to go to great and bizarre lengths to make sure that the Launcher will not be movable. All we're doing by nagging is fitting in Mark's view of the community, that we are part of a minority of users who refuse to accept that their pet bug won't be fixed. This, I insist, is an error in understanding the reason for nagging: the community is in fact worried about Unity's usability and potential, and is every bit concerned about future Ubuntu users as he is. We tell our stories here, as anecdotal evidence, and provide our opinions, as longtime computer users. Come to think of it, he has not *once* come out and thanked us for posting on this bug. He sees this whole bug as a nuisance and distraction from his real work, rather than a valuable source of input from people who use Ubuntu everyday. (He has stated explicitly that he doesn't care about our opinion: he is targeting people who never used computers before, or who have barely used them.) Locking a huge, important UI element like the Launcher to a specific part of any and all displays will hurt that future. The sheer diversity of computer displays out there -- so many different sizes, resolutions, aspect ratios, viewing angles, multiple display setups, touch vs. non- touch, eInk vs. LCD, including new display technologies that we don't know about yet -- demands that Unity maintain flexibility. And then there's a diversity of users: left-handed, right-handed, speakers of right-to-left languages (like me). You want to run Unity in a car computer? Well, in your country do you driving on the left or right side of the road? There are just so many aspects to this that it seems like shooting yourself in the foot by not planning for such futures. The vision of an operating system for human beings can only work if it takes into account the diversity of humans and the diversity of their experience. Otherwise, it will be an operating system for a lucky group of human beings who happen to fit a specific mold. I have no doubt that in a year or two, Unity will have no choice but to make the Launcher movable, introducing considerable breakage and change to a bug-free product. And then all our comments on this bug will remain as archaeological evidence that perhaps the community should have been listened to. :) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
I found some information about planned multi-monitor support in 12.04, and how it would impact the Launcher. The bottom line is that the Unity team is dead serious about not making the Launcher movable. So, how are they going to solve the current bugs? By having the Launcher on all monitors! The implication is that you would always want auto-hide turned on, otherwise you will be wasting space on all your monitors, not to mention having a very confusing experience seeing multiple Launchers at the same time. And this bizarre setup, with an increasingly complex auto-hide/edge- detection heuristic, is supposed to involve less work than simply having a single Launcher which the user can place on any edge of any monitor? What do you think? The document is here: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/unity-multi-monitor- interactions/ The relevant text from section 2.6: The Launcher is now available on all displays. Each Launcher contains the same set of application icons, showing both pinned and running applications. The same unfilled indicator arrow, used to identify applications which have all of their windows on a different workspace, is also used to identify applications which have all of their windows on a different display. Otherwise, filled indicator arrows are used, to show whether the application has one, two, or three-or-more windows on the current display. The behaviour upon clicking Launcher icons remains the same as in 12.04. Where the Auto-hide behaviour is specified (this is the default behaviour and can be changed from System Settings-User Interface), the Launcher will be shown whilst it does not obscure any windows, otherwise it is hidden and revealed by targeting the left edge of the display. When targeting a Launcher, the mouse cursor is held briefly at the left- edge of a display (as it passes from right to left across display boundaries), to make it possible to target the Launcher in Auto-hide mode. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
There are two elephants in the room for this bug. The first is the poor job the Unity team is doing in explaining their position to the community, for which I opened this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/882274 The second is the inconsistency and implausibility of the explanation. The broader design goals Mark mentions all the way up in comment 2, the original stated reason for closing this bug, have not been true since the release of Ubuntu 11.10. What worries me more is the implausibility. Some of the people adding their opinion to this bug are casual users. Some are power users. Some are seasoned software developers with quite a bit of experience in delivering working products with human-facing interfaces, as well as working with quality assurance. I'm one of them, and your explanation just does not gel. Yes, extra features add more testing scenarios. Yes, that requires more resources to manage. But ... come on, folk, all of this is totally manageable, even with the most elaborate and ornate testing methodologies. After all, you've managed the ability to change the width of the Launcher, right? Bugs may ensue with a movable Launcher, but they will be solved. It's not like you haven't taken risks with buggy features in the past: in fact, you took a huge risk with making Unity as a whole the default experience when there were plenty of *known* bugs. And bugs have a much better chance of getting solved if you cultivate good will with the community. Let us all remember: Pavel Golikov's patch was rejected. I was actually starting work on a similar patch at about the same time Pavel was, but obviously I have no interest in doing that now. I'll be frank, with the risk of hitting a nerve: I think the Unity team has climbed up a tree and can't come down. They've been too quick to dismiss this bug, and overly defensive about their initial decision. After making such a defiant stand about the won't fix, and after (some of) the community has responded with its own defiant stand, it's now impossible to back out without somehow appearing weak and undetermined. Mark keeps stressing how important it is to make focused decisions in order for Ubuntu to lead, even if they are unpopular. But that's true only as long as the decisions are good. Another sign of successful leadership is listening to criticism, climbing down that tree, and admitting mistakes. So, let's admit that the community's point of view might be the better one for Ubuntu right now and Ubuntu in the future. Canonical might not have the resources to fix this bug right now, but how about we remove the won't fix and plan a way to fix it sometime in the future? (I can't speak for Pavel, but I believe he would be happy to help!) Better late than never. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
Oops! I'm embarrassed: in my previous comment (112) I refer to the Mark. It is a typo; I simply meant Mark. Unfortunately, the typo is suggestive of the angle of criticism that sees Unity as Mark's ego trip. I'll state clearly that I firmly reject such criticism. I see no evidence that any of the problems are driven by Mark or anybody else's inflated sense of importance. All that's going on is the usual mess that inflicts large-scale projects: people get overly focused on their specific roles and cultivate necessary blind spots over other parts of the project. In this case, the blind spot covers Ubuntu's early adopters and their need for transparency. The only healthy way to deal with such problems is to bring them into the open, discuss them as broadly as possible, and have the leadership cultivate anti-mechanisms that intentionally shine light on the blind spots. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
Mark, You keep putting the blame on a straw target: people who refuse to accept that their one pet bug is not being addressed. Sure, those people exist, and you attitude concerning them is correct, if too abrupt in tone. But, looking at the vast majority of the comments on these bugs, the substance of the complaint seems entirely different: a strong sense of being left behind by Ubuntu. And, you keep going back to the same line of defense: the statistics. You're proud of the 15/16 number, for good reasons. But it's all about the substance of these bugs, not the number of them, and the way in which they are being closed. (Which is the line of defense that *I* keep going back to...) It's not that you're saying we can't fix this, it's that you're saying, quite explicitly: We won't; and we won't accept patches; and we won't acknowledge the underlying problems; and we won't offer alternative solutions; and we won't tell you what our plans are, if any, that disallow this; and we won't tell you why. In GNOME 3, they can close a bug by saying Well, this is outside of our vision, so it's better handled as an extension. And now they're even actively endorsing these extensions, with an impressively friendly site. But, there's no such thing as Unity extensions. (There is such extensibility when it comes to application indicators, another part of the Ayatana umbrella, and there's indeed a healthy community effort to develop more and more of these, many which solve usability problems inherent in the default desktop experience: for example, a classic menu for those who find it hard to use the Dash with a mouse. It would be nice if Ubuntu engaged these devs and integrated indicators better into Ubuntu, like GNOME has. But, remember, I opened the community engagement bug originally for Unity, and it's there that the problem is most severe, for technical as well as project- management reasons.) Moreover, I think I can safely say that there will not be Unity extensions. That would fly in the face of everything you said about programmer availability, testability in the long run, etc. Opening the door to extensions, with a supported open-ended API, seems far more problematic than merely allowing the Launcher to be movable. I would be very surprised, pleasantly so, if this would ever become a priority. An extension API *is* community engagement in the most material way. Pavel Golikov is an unsung Ubuntu hero, and I doubt he will be acknowledged as a hero by the Mark and other insiders. He is the sole person behind the fork to allow the Launcher to be movable to the bottom: https://code.launchpad.net/~paullo612/unity/unityshell-rotated Look at all those commits! But, it's doomed to fail, and we all know it: he will not be able to always keep his fork well-merged with the Unity trunk. Forks are great in many cases, but this is exactly that situation where you want to keep the main binary intact and allow for extensions. But, Golikov did not stop at the won't fix. He saw a community need, and stepped up to the plate on his own time. I've been following the multiple-monitor issue as closely as I can as an outsider, and I still have absolutely no idea how Unity is going to solve it, if at all, for 12.04. You originally closed the bug for the movable Launcher because you said you wanted to keep the Dash button close to the Launcher. Since they are now united, it seems that your original reason is gone. But, nobody has told *us* what the new reason is for the Launcher to stay on the left. What is this vision? And, nobody told *us* what people with multiple monitors (or speakers of right-to-left languages) should do. This, of course, reminded me of when Ubuntu moved the window decoration button to the left, opaquely talking about a vision that was never elaborated. And that was the point where I suddenly realized the real, endemic problem, and opened this bug about community engagement. Final note -- I would suggest that the 15/16 fix rate is due not only to the diligence of the programmers, but also to the care by which the Ubuntu community opens these bugs on Launchpad, tends to them, responds, etc. I participate in many free software projects, and of course much of that work is in bug triaging, but a lot of effort goes to communicating with the opener of the bug. (Some would call that effort wasted, but that's exactly the attitude that I'm trying to fight here.) I can honestly say that I'm impressed by how well, on a whole, bugs are *opened* in Ubuntu. I can't find the citation right now, but I remember you saying a long time ago that Launchpad was one of the most important parts of the Ubuntu vision. It was one of your many statements that made me commit much of my professional (and personal!) life to Ubuntu. This was a commitment to the community. Moreover, it was reaching out and telling you that you needed us. Unsurprisingly, many answered the call. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member
[Bug 830333] Re: randomly, update-apt-xapi will take 100% cpu for an extended period of time
I can confirm that the fix mentioned above helps. It seems that the Xapian updater is running for a much shorter time due to using '--update' instead of a full recreation of the index. However, since I don't really understand Xapian, I can't be sure that this doesn't create other problems. However, my netbook still stutters while watching a video during this shorter period of time in which the Xapian updater is running. I think that all the nice use in the world won't help this sore go away. I hope Ubuntu can find an alternative solution. Until then, can someone with authority look into confirming this fix and patching it? Credit for the fix goes to Ubunu Forums user 'selanit': http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=361185 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/830333 Title: randomly, update-apt-xapi will take 100% cpu for an extended period of time To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-xapian-index/+bug/830333/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@Randall Good point, and a helpful intervention. Individuals might define their community differently, but piecing together the many voices, and applying some of your language, I'd say that community here means: The current set of long-time, heavy users, as well as advocates, of Ubuntu's main distribution line (as opposed to Kubuntu and Xubuntu). I think the term user can also be blown up a bit: it includes a diverse mix of home users, computer enthusiasts, people who work in enterprise IT, and who build, deploy and support software on top of Ubuntu. And they each offer a different flavor of concern and criticism. I emphasized long-time because it seems that this community has already seen some of Ubuntu and free software desktops evolve, enough that they can articulate an informed opinion about the process. And I emphasized heavy because I imagine most light users would be more likely to take a wait-and-see approach rather than participate. Their stakes are lower. And that's my main point: I believe that this community has real stakes in Ubuntu's future, in some cases backed by real money, possibly a lot of it. And I believe that perhaps these heavy users have been discounted. Possibly for good reasons, as they are weighed down with past bias, outdated habits and legacy applications. But, I'll also point out that Microsoft has been a great choice for enterprises for a long time, specifically due to their proven commitment to the legacy userbase. Ubuntu's LTS commitment is one great way to do the same, but the devil is in the details. Recall how long it took Microsoft to push NT technology through: a few attempts proved problematic (Windows NT 4), so they kept providing more OSes in the half-way legacy line (Windows 95, 98, Me) before the user community could meet them fully at Windows XP. You can have a vision, and it can be a great vision, but you can't force your community into it without disaster. Will Ubuntu 12.04 be a Windows NT 4? A Windows Me? A few people have pointed towards Linux Mint's refreshing (get it? mint?) attitude in this, as they have worked hard to provide a friendly, welcoming path of familiarity from GNOME 2 to GNOME 3: http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_lisa_whatsnew.php#gnome3 That short paragraph there sums out very elegantly everything I've been trying to put forward here. Perhaps Ubuntu should package and ship MGSE with 12.04 for its GNOME Shell login session. Or perhaps MGSE should be remixed to work as Unity plugin instead of a GNOME 3 plugin. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 830333] Re: randomly, update-apt-xapi will take 100% cpu for an extended period of time
Someone posted what appears to be a fix in the forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10453047postcount=15 Can we verify this and patch? Three years and this bug is still plaguing us... -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/830333 Title: randomly, update-apt-xapi will take 100% cpu for an extended period of time To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-xapian-index/+bug/830333/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 773578] Re: Switching to Thunderbird via SUPER+# does not switch workspace
This seems not specific to Unity, but to Thunderbird and possibly a few other apps. I've noticed the same exact effect when using DockbarX on Compiz to switch to Thunderbird when it's not in the right workspace. The workspace is not being switched. Note, though, that the global menu does switch to Thunderbird's, so it does seem like Thunderbird is the active window. Could this be a Compiz issue? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/773578 Title: Switching to Thunderbird via SUPER+# does not switch workspace To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/773578/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@Reuben Again and again people forget the other Ubuntus: Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and -- hopefully soon -- Lubuntu. They are very much supported by the Ubuntu project and by Mark personally. It's curious that when people are disappointed by Unity they turn not to the other Ubuntus but to other operating systems entirely. What is the conclusion? Apparently, supporting alternative official Ubuntus is not working well. Either the community doesn't care for these, appreciate them, or just has very low expectations (after being burned by the main Ubuntu) and won't give them a chance. The Ubuntu project may need to do a better job at raising the profiles of these. But, even the ability to use GNOME Shell instead of Unity is often overlooked, and it's right in the box. So, what's the problem? I tend to think about usability problems in the simplest terms. What would work for me is this: when you turn on your Ubuntu computer, and are ready to login, you are greeted with this screen: Welcome to Ubuntu! Ubuntu comes with several desktop experiences to match the diverse needs of its community of users. You need to pick one now, but know that you can always logout and try a different one. We recommend trying them all, and welcome your feedback on each. * Unity: If you don't know where to start, try this! It's polished, fuss-free, and can satisfy those who prefer the mouse and also those who prefer the keyboard. Unity does its best to stay out of your way and keep you focused on your work and play. Unity is currently a work in progress, but millions of users consider it done. Please let us know how we can improve it! Note that at this time Unity has limited support for multiple monitor setups. * XFCE: A friendly variation of the classic desktop. Recommended if you've used computers for years and don't want to change your habits. * KDE: The most advanced integrated desktop environment in the world. Enough said! * LXDE: Another lean and mean variation of the classic desktop, optimized for older computers. Also recommended for users seeking the most lightweight desktop. * GNOME Shell: Another innovative attempt to simplify the desktop paradigm. Very mouse-friendly. Check this box [x] if you don't want to see this message again. You can always click on [button] to select a different desktop experience when you login. Of course, I don't expect the base Ubuntu install to include all desktops, but it shouldn't be hard to install them off the Internet when the user selects them. All flavors of Ubuntu could come with this welcome screen, whatever their base desktop experience is. It's not too easy to accomplish: right now, the desktop meta-packages also pull in a lot of default apps (browsers, word processors, games, etc.), which would make it far too heavy to easily switch. So, there need to be simpler meta-packages that only install the shell and let you keep the apps you are already are using. This will mean more work to maintain them. But, I would suggest that maintaining these packages might be a better idea than maintaining separate other Ubuntus officially. If Ubuntu can deliver such an experience, and make sure that each of the desktops maintains high standards (with consistent Ambience and Radiance themes?), then I don't see why anybody would ever dream of *not* using Ubuntu. For reals. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@Bazon Thanks! As I keep trying to emphasize, I did not open this bug because I think Unity is bad, nor because I want Unity to be something that's it not supposed to be, nor because I'm unaware that there are many other terrific free software alternative, in Ubuntu and beyond. This bug is not about the software. This bug is about making the Unity project more welcoming -- or at least less alienating. Too many people feel that Unity has been shoved down their throats. Too many people feel that they have been tricked into being beta testers. Too many people feel that their legitimate complaints, suggestions and even patches are unwelcome. Too many people, who have devoted years of outsider effort to promote Ubuntu are feeling like Ubuntu is treating them more as a nuisance than a boon. Mark keeps listing the very convincing reasons for all of this, that are beyond Ubuntu's control: it's not Ubuntu's fault that GNOME 3 did not offer a GNOME-2-like fallback experience at the same time as Oneiric came out; Ubuntu can't please everyone and Unity must remain focused in order to maintain quality moving forward; there's simply not enough time to answer every single complaint. That's all true. But it doesn't make our sense of alienation any less legitimate. On the other hand, it may not be Ubuntu's responsibility to fix this situation. Moreover, the sad fact may be that it's just not a priority: perhaps we, a few loudly unhappy members of the Ubuntu community, are deemed expendable. At the time of this writing, this bug is still marked new, unassigned and of undecided importance. I'm sure we're just counting the days until it is closed as won't fix. Oh, well. I'm willing to admit that I'm blowing a lot of hot air here over nothing at all. This might just be a time of difficult (and necessary?) transition, and by 12.04 Ubuntu will ship to broad popular enthusiasm on all fronts: from people who have never been exposed to free software and are delighted by the purple-and-orange wonder, and from us old fuddy duddies who learned to use a mouse with Windows 95 and refuse to change our crochety habits. ;) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@Allison Great news! I think most of us are confident that this bug will be solved, it's just that we're worried about the loss of momentum in the interim. Mark and others keep talking about the future, but I see no reason why some of the damage can't be addressed right now. Let's ensure that 12.04 will be greeted with hope rather than suspicion. I would just add a touch of realism to your plea: the community *does* bite, always has and always will. It is by definition diverse in needs, wants, sensitivity and levels of civility (some of which is related to the especially multicultural composition of the Ubuntu community). Unity designers entering the fray, especially right now, are guaranteed to get some unpleasantness flung their way. I would say that the best advice for those wanting to engage the community is: develop a thick skin. Being offended is a choice: so choose that you will not get offended by any harsh words. Look behind the words towards the pattern of use they represent. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
Here's a recent Slashdot writeup of the situation, with many great comments as usual (a.k.a., whining): http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/11/11/1752226/linux-mint-the-new- ubuntu It's a depressing read. (Also, of course, sensational: there's no actual proof that Ubuntu users are switching to Mint in droves.) Again, I don't think any fault here is Unity itself, which I am convinced is a terrific and well thought-out shell, but in the abject failure of the Ubuntu project to satisfyingly explain Unity and its evolution to Ubuntu's own community of users. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Sorry, Mark. I did forget that some people can't un-subscribe from this bug. I've collected some ideas mentioned here and moved them to the forums. I hope we can continue there: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11431881 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@Robin Unfortunately, mentioning Pantheon *is* on topic. Because this bug won't be fixed, there is a need for alternative solutions, workarounds, plans, and even shreds of hope; and a few good ones were posted here. As someone else has pointed out, there are two kinds of users commenting on this bug: 1) users who dislike Unity and are using this space as a way to express their dislike; and 2) users who like a lot of things about Unity, and want to use it, but are frustrated because this bug breaks their ability to do so. There's no easy solution for the first group. Sure, they can easily switch to a different desktop in Ubuntu or even to a different free operating system, but the sad way in which this bug is mishandled makes it hard for them to keep faith in Ubuntu and to advocate it to others. Mark has explicitly asked them, in various ways, to just go away. There's also no easy solution for the second group. Infuriatingly, the Unity team has consistently ignored multiple requests here and in other places to explain how users of multiple-monitor setups and right-to-left languages are going to be able to use Unity without a movable launcher. There are vague acknowledgements that a problem exists, but no solution is offered, and especially no timeline. As far as anybody who is not an insider can tell, it's likely that 12.04 LTS will be released, again, with a default desktop experience that does not work in multi-monitor setups and for the many, many millions of RTL language users. So, we'll; be seeing millions of desktops running with this major breakage well into the year 2014. I still have faith (based on no actual knowledge) that this issue will be resolved. Until then, I find it very helpful when people post workarounds or temporary solutions, which keep us mostly within the Unity paradigm but fix some of the breakage. Pantheon may prove such a temporary fix, once it's ready. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
This glimpse of multi-monitor support for Pangolin just came in from OMG Ubuntu: www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/multi-monitor-support-to-improve-in- ubuntu-12-04-video I'm not sure what I'm seeing, exactly, but it looks as if the Launcher is being duplicated on *all* monitors. This seems to fly in the fact of Unity's claim to maximize screen real estate: here, we're swallowing screen real estate everywhere. I makes more sense to me to let the user decide which monitor the Launcher should go, and on which screen edge it should appear. But, yeah, won't fix, I get it. I realize this is just an early demo, but at the very least it shows that the Unity team is not ignoring multi-monitor support for the future, and Pangolin may deliver ... something. And I guess OMG Ubuntu is taking the role of community engagement that Ubuntu is not doing itself. Why couldn't Ubuntu folk just told us that they are experimenting with alternative solution, and linked us to a wiki somewhere, instead of the curt won't fix? Look at this hundreds of negative comments... So much ill will could have been averted by just being more transparent with us. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@einhverfr I think some people are interpreting Mark's announcement through their own bias. Unity may be friendlier towards tablets than most desktop interfaces, but there's still a long way to go, and indeed that's why the Unity team is setting such a far-off date for tablet support. Try for yourself: install Unity on a tablet and see. I did it, and it's horrible. A lot of the problem is not Unity itself, so much as GTK and the mouse-oriented design of every important desktop application. You might be able to launch GIMP on a tablet, but you can forget about doing anything useful with it without connecting at least a mouse, and hopefully a keyboard, too. Indeed, there's a very good reason why both Apple and Google decided a fresh start was needed. Current apps are simply broken on tablets, and there's no meta-way to make them just work. The whole free software community needs to make the shift. Standards need to be set. APIs. I have no doubt that Ubuntu will take the lead on this. (I just keep hoping they'll include more of the community of their supporters in the effort.) In their rush to hate on Unity, people are forgetting how keyboard- centric Unity is. It's more keyboard-centric than GNOME 2, GNOME 3, and really almost every desktop shell out there. This came as a pleasant surprise to me when Unity first came out, and indeed Mark is entirely correct when he says that Unity very much takes power users, who are CLI freaks, in mind. A great amount of effort has been put into making sure that Unity indeed would unify everything from keyboard to mouse to touch in the future, with the same exact base feature set, and it shows very well. Nobody has done so well in this task before, and Unity designers deserve the full credit for this breakthrough. I keep emphasizing this: but I'm nagging on this bug so much because I really do love Unity, and would like to see it go the extra mile towards unifying all my computers. As of now, I have to do weird things on my multi-monitor desktop in order to use it. But, again, I'm willing to make the effort in order to stay as close to the Unity paradigm. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Hi everyone, I'd encourage you all to take a look at the terrific stuff coming from the Elementary OS folk: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/02/elementarys-slingshot-plank-apps- just-what-are-they-and-why/ It's still not ready, but it seems that Elementary's Pantheon will offer a very nice, more modular alternative to Unity. I can't wait! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
-- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
Friends, I think most of us know how easy it is to switch to GNOME Shell, or even XFCE (or LXDE -- let's not forget it, it's wonderful in its minimalism) in Ubuntu and still stay in a mostly GTK-and-GNOME-like paradigm. For some, that's a perfect solution! But, please try to understand why this is not a good enough solution for some of us. The problem is the bitter taste it leaves in our mouth: a lack of trust in Ubuntu as a whole and its leadership. We have many, many choices for complete operating systems in the free software world, so why advocate and push for Ubuntu if we cannot trust that the project is going in the right direction? Mark has accused some of us of being selfish in trying to push for a specific bug fix. What he fails to understand is that it's not for ourselves that we're pushing. Our personal problems are easily solvable in the free software world in so many other ways. We are frustrated because we think one of the best opportunities we've ever had for a free operating system for everyone might be squandered. It's the same with the threats of That's it! I'm switching to Mint! I think Mark and others just roll their eyes when they see such threats. The threats are indeed a bit pathetic... But, to me they are very worrying because they show that Ubuntu is not doing well enough in the battle for hearts and minds. Famously, the first bug open in Launchpad is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 Microsoft Windows won the desktop not because of quality, but because of good business positioning. Will Ubuntu win only because it's free software? RedHat is doing OK, but hasn't really conquered. Ubuntu may have to win on a combination of factors: of being good enough as a replacement (meaning it will support all standards), of actual merit and added value it could bring to enterprises and home users, and also some good business deals. But I also believe that popular support, advocacy, and a strong community will be a factor. For example, consider how well the iPhone and Macs have done in replacing BlackBerry and Windows in their traditional corporate turf. The reason is advocacy by private people who love Apple devices so much and keep pushing for them. The I'm switching to Mint! folk are not going to be such people for Ubuntu. Losing them is just really too bad. So, yeah, we can just move on and stop bothering the Unity folk. We know that. But we keep nagging because what is at stake is bigger than just a moveable Launcher. What's at stake is Launchpad bug #1. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
Here's a write up on this issue by Bruce Byfield, with many excellent comments following: http://www.linux-magazine.com/content/view/full/51293 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
-- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
-- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
-- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
I think some of you don't understand what was meant by won't fix -- it's not that this issue is a low priority, it's that the team has no intention of fixing at all. It has nothing to do with them being too busy for it right now. If they were too busy, they would have left the bug open until it would be fixed. The Unity Launcher is *not* going to be movable, so we all have to get used to it. Mark has made it 100% that this is his final decision and that he has moved on. I can only hope that an alternate solution will be available for people with multiple monitors and people who use right-to-left languages. However, I do not know of any plans to accommodate us, and it's indeed hard for me to even imagine a solution for us within Unity's current vision. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
On 10/30/2011 08:15 AM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: Yeah, it's hard work to include the community. It takes a lot of time. Welcome to free software! Mark, you set the ball rolling, but perhaps the project you created doesn't have what it takes to face the consequences of managing free software in the long haul. Let's fix this. Do you seriously suggest I don't know anything about free software, or working to include the community? No, but I'm suggesting that this is a point where your patience has run too thin and you refuse go the extra mile. I can't believe it makes you feel good about Ubuntu to witness these riots, as you call them. You have to admit that something isn't working quite right: on the one hand, the Ayatana mailing list is open for everyone to read, but on the other hand, there seems to be a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding of what goes on inside. Perhaps you thrive on antagonism, or perhaps you have convinced yourself that loud detractors are inevitable and harmless to any large projects. But I know that if this were my project, and I were reading some of the comments, I would feel a sense that something is broken. I believe this situation is fixable, or I would not have opened this as a bug. I read your blog and have been following Ubuntu for years. You have injected your persona into the project, so, like or not, you are going to get some personal attacks. I would imagine you're used to that by now. But, it's that particular role you fulfil that makes me wonder if you're the right man to be managing or even opining about the community process. In your engagement of the community, you are too easily tempted to confrontation. Everything is going to go downhill once you start calling our requests selfish. I see the conflict of goals as analogous to that between QA and the programmers: there's a reason you don't want the programmer doing the usability testing. The programmers will, unknowingly, test only what they know is working. Their imagination is constrained by the challenges of their work. Ubuntu is in some ways your personal project: you are predisposed to get overly defensive and even testy when its direction is criticized. There's been a discussion in this bug about whether Unity should gain a feature or two. At first I thought this discussion was distracting (like you, I see that a decision has been made and would like to just move on), but it's actually instructive in seeing how you respond to the community: you carefully tell us why we are wrong, that we don't have a clue how developing software really works, and suggest that we leave it up to the adults to do things properly. Unsurprisingly (to me, at least) this condescension only causes more angst. Let me give you an example of going this extra mile. My pet bug is the movable Launcher bug. I love Unity! Love it on my netbook and laptops, and on many desktops I use in various places. I love how it combines my favorite desktop UI elements from recent years: the Windows-7-type icon-based launcher, the Quicksilver-like keyboard- based launcher/finder, and finally cleaning up that miserable mess that was GNOME 2's panel. I particularly love how Dash unabashedly values the keyboard at a time when many desktops are embracing touch at the cost of usability. (It takes so many clicks to get anything done on GNOME Shell.) The clean use of screen real estate is easy on the eyes. And I do love that I don't have to fiddle with settings to just getting work done. (As a side note, I also deploy large-scale grids on Amazon's EC2, and swear by Ubuntu server there.) So why would I need to move the Launcher? Unity is broken on my main multi-monitor setup, and I would say it simply does not support multi- monitor except in a few extreme cases. Or, I can twist my neck to my leftmost, bottommost monitor every time I need to launch an app, and break my neck. Also, my native language is read right-to-left. Over the years, I have gotten used to this working poorly on computers, and simply use English, but not everyone in my community can do this. (There are murmurs that Unity might support mirroring as a solution for RTL languages. I cringe at the thought; it has always worked miserably in Windows.) Mark, you closed that bug with a curt won't fix and called us a bunch of whiners. It's really that more than anything else that caused the riot, as you call it. Going the extra mile would be to acknowledge the problem, and tell us how you're planning on addressing it. I can't see how the multi-monitor problem can be fixed without moving the Launcher, but it may be my own failure of imagination. ( Note: I created this guide as a workaround: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11368937 . I've also downloaded the Unity source code and evaluated the effort it would take to patch it, which in my opinion is not too much due to the high quality of the source code, though I'm not going to waste my time on learning Nux now that it's
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
On 10/30/2011 04:58 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: It doesn't feel good, no. What is missing is a mutual willingness to agree to disagree and continue to work together. So, what are we left with? You've acknowledged that there is a problem with community engagement, however it doesn't seem overly serious to you. You see it mostly as a distraction, a time waste. As for the causes of the problem, you've put them squarely on a few community members. You do not think the Ubuntu project is mismanaging the community. In fact, you are rightfully proud of the effort that has been done so far to keep the community involved. Even if the Ubuntu project is not part of the problem, you are still not interested in doing any more work to alleviate it. You've ignored all suggestions offered for FAQs, for increased detail in responses, and for changing the tone of responses. In summary, this is yet another won't fix bug. Community engagement might not be optimal, you acknowledge, but there's nothing the Unity team is going to do about it. As with other closed bugs, I'll move on and keep trusting in you and the team to deliver the future. It's been terrific so far. And, when a bug is too serious for me to just move on (the multi-monitor issue, for example) I'll research a workaround and post it to Ubuntu Forums, like I always do. I feel a little dirty doing so (my preference is always to open a formal bug) but I'm happy to do what it takes to help other Ubuntu users around the pain points that crop up once in a while. I wish I could be more involved, but I'm already overly extended in mine and other free software projects, consulting, and university studies. I can only afford to be an active outsider at this point. I know you dislike the distinction between inside and out, and I do, too, but I think it's a necessary consequence of this bug that we're all going to have to live with. The fact is that many of us do not feel included or valued. Or rather, it's that we're valued only if we do exactly what would qualify us to become insiders. This statement of yours is the essence of this sentiment: I'm just unimpressed by people who grandstand about a particular bug when they could be helping to fix others with that energy. See, some of us think that reporting bugs is actually a very valuable use of energy. And what you call grandstanding, some of us would call advocacy. You've set a bar here to impress you, and it's higher than what most of us can afford to reach. We can't all join the Unity team, and I can't believe you would even want that. It would be interesting to hear from you (perhaps in a blog post?) what you think the role of a productive, constructive, supportive Ubuntu community would be. I've read almost every comment the community has posted on these issues, on forums, blogs and Launchpad, and despite the occasional vitriol, I have to say that I am quite proud to be a part of it. Even when we feel that we are outsiders, most of us continue to have a stake in Ubuntu's success, and do what we can within our time limits and skills to make it better. You call it nagging -- I see it as passion for Ubuntu. Perhaps even a passion for freedom. As you recommend, I'm going to stop putting time into this and redirect my efforts elsewhere. The free software I work on is not directly for Ubuntu, but it is part of the grand free ecology to which it belongs. I'm an outsider, but I think I do good for it. Thanks, Mark. I really appreciate the personal attention you've given this bug. We'll agree to disagree, as you say, and I'll stay hoping on my end that some of the issues we've raised here will stay with you and have a constructive effect. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@Fernando I nominate your statement as Quote of the Year in free software: Think of this as if you are going to date Catherine Zeta-Jones and she is bed smelling. Despite she is a pretty beautiful woman, many people would prefer another girl that at least don't kill his nose. Thank you for making my day bright. :) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@Aaron I think Mark was clear: you can have access to all these documents and participate in the discussions about priorities, implementation, etc., if you formally join the Unity team. In fact, he welcomed us to do so, and berated those of us who complain from the outside for making demands but not willing to do the work required in the long haul as the consequence of the features we demand. I think that's reasonable for the purpose of getting work done, but -- again -- I think it's detrimental to the community process. It devalues the work the community does on the outside: alpha testing, beta testing, evaluating, posting, helping each other out, blogging, advocating, reaching out to non-Ubuntu users, and sometimes opening bugs on Launchpad that are curtly closed. Mark seems to think that such work is all easy for us to do, because we don't have to face the consequences of the real programming-design- testing cycle, but in fact we're in it for the long haul and do face the consequences of decisions. Including such a decision as not supporting multiple-monitor setups or right-to-left languages in Unity (for three releases of Ubuntu thus far). As a side-note, I think you've misrepresented the inside process a bit: Mark is not a benevolent dictator in any sense. In fact, his leadership is all about empowering and totally trusting the people who are responsible for their domains to make decisions. Mark *never* overrides these decisions, even if he disagrees with them. That means that whoever is in charge of designing the Dash gets total control over all design decisions, even though the team (and the community) as a whole will face the consequences later on. Mark's role is merely as an arbiter: to step in and make a decision one way or another when teams *cannot* agree. Compare this to, say, Linus Torvalds' role in Linux, and it's hard not to be inspired by the Ubuntu way of governing. I don't think that process is broken. Specifically what is broken is the process involving the outside community, on Launchpad and beyond. Mark has been very focused on perfecting the internal team process -- and has done an astoundingly productive job with it -- but the remaining problem is how to properly include us outsiders. Unfortunately, I don't see this problem fixed given Mark's current attitude. He just doesn't think what we do is very valuable for Ubuntu at large. Apparently we're a tiny minority of nerdy curmudgeons who hate change and love to whine. Not only does he devalue our work, but he seems to find it distracting and a waste of his and his teams' time. It seems he would be happy if we abandoned Ubuntu and went off to bother a different free operating system. Then the small team of Ubuntu programmers could do their work in peace and quiet. Except that some of us think that such quiet would end up hurting our favorite operating system. Yeah, it's hard work to include the community. It takes a lot of time. Welcome to free software! Mark, you set the ball rolling, but perhaps the project you created doesn't have what it takes to face the consequences of managing free software in the long haul. Let's fix this. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@Mark Thanks for responding to this, even after pointing out that it could be a waste of time to respond to every request. Unfortunately, your response proves that this bug is endemic. As you say, you and senior Ubuntu developers to respond to bugs. The problem is not that you don't respond, but in how you respond. I'm going to be constructive here and offer solutions. The first problem is tone: you're being impatient with and unsympathetic to community woes. One example is that your requirements for constructive solutions from the community seem exceedingly high. Isn't opening a bug constructive? It takes time and effort to do so. This is free QA work done for Canonical. The language some people use is strong -- but remember that usually people open a bug as a last resort, after trying numerous things and searching the Internet for solution. In fact, this is what you reasonably require of us *before* opening a bug? The result is that bugs are often open in a state of frustration, so harsh words are said, and it may appear selfish. And there are language and cultural differences. May I suggest that you develop a tougher skin? That you be more forgiving and sympathetic to strong words? Even if you don't appreciate the sentiment, I suggest you take the high road: answer the disgruntled user by graciously thanking them for the time and effort they took to report the bug, and explain to them why it can't be solved right now, what solutions are being planned, and what alternative solutions are available right now. You can have a stock answer that you copy and paste for this, and modify a bit for the circumstance. (More on this below.) The second example of very high standards for constructive solutions is rejected patches. A patch is a constructive solution if there very was one. Woe to the free software project that curtly rejects patches! You will develop such ill will that nobody will want to even try to fix bugs for you. The second problem is detail: you're not being detailed enough in your answers when you do answer. (And that's a mild way of putting it...) I understand the lack of time, as I'm very busy, too. Then how about you write a FAQ and direct users to it? My fear, though, is that your FAQ would reflect your impatience: Q: Why can't I customize aspect X of Unity? A: You don't like it? Use GNOME Shell or KDE or KFCE or LXDE! Goodbye! Mark, this might be a reasonable solution for a user trying to get work done, but an unreasonable response to the community wanting to embrace Unity and improve it. If there's one point I want to get across here, it's that distinction. The community is not just a few users with a few problems. The community is your human scaffolding. Striking a deal with Dell might seem more important for Ubuntu's success in the short run, but without community Ubuntu's soul will be lost, and I believe it may fail in the long term. Ubuntu is for humans, and so it is named. Unity unites, and so it is named. These inspirations are rare in software, make me proud to promote Ubuntu, and will be not be so easy to recover if they are lost. It took 7 years to build this community: it would be a pity to have to start from scratch. It's discouraging to hear from you that cultivating this community is deemed a waste of time. If it's a full-time job to do so, I would think it worthwhile to hire someone for it. Here's my suggestion for a community FAQ structure (as opposed to a user FAQ): Q: Why can't I customize aspect X of Unity? A: Thank you for asking a legitimate question! We welcome this and all feedback from the community. In the meantime, until we find a solution, we recommend alternatives A, B and C. Please let us know if you have other suggestions for alternatives and we'll post them here. As for a solution: We have a better one planned. It's going to take some time to get it in, but to get a sense of how it will work, check out link. Please subscribe here: link to be notified for when beta testing for this feature will begin. Also, please feel free to comment here: link to forum discussion, and try to be respectful and patient. We'll try, too. or: At the moment we can't solve this problem due to lack of manpower. If you can, please write a patch and submit it. Moreover, we want to be convinced of your commitment to continue maintaining this feature as Unity continues to evolve. It's important to think of you how this feature would fit in our overall plan: link. or: We believe that this is not really a problem, and only seems so due to bad user habits acquired from other software. Our usability studies have shown that link to studies with an analysis of the results. or: At the moment we believe that it's better not to solve this problem because it doesn't fit our vision for Unity's evolution, and we believe that doing so would limit that vision. We understand that this is a contentious answer, and so will go into some detail here. We want Unity to be A, B, C.
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
Thanks to everyone for adding their opinion! To keep this bug report effective, I hope we can all: 1) Stick to suggestions rather than opinions. Also, let's keep suggestions as short as possible. I know we all have a lot of emotion to vent, but it's more effective to be succinct. With a caveat: I believe that the lack of attention to the community's *feelings* is part of the problem. Sure, we might be unreasonable, loudmouthed and selfish sometimes -- but that's how people are sometimes when their feelings are hurt. It doesn't mean those feelings aren't valid. 2) Stay focused on the issue: community engagement. This is not about Unity missing one or two features that we want. Isn't that true, after all, for *all* software, whether it's free or proprietary? The issue is the lack of transparency about the decision-making process, and the widespread feeling of exclusion in the community. How can we fix that? (Without reiterating the complaint about it?) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken
@SRoesgen I'm going to take the dev teams (and Mark Shuttleworth) at face value: if they say a bug will not be fixed because it's a design decision, then I believe them. Why shouldn't I? I do not think they are hiding behind it. Hiding from what, exactly? They obviously do have a coherent, evolving vision, and it's great to see the Ubuntu desktop becoming more coherent and integrated with every release. The specific bug in this case is that the community is not involved in this process. The community is composed of mostly reasonable people. Really, we would totally understand an argument for why a bug cannot be fixed. But, we're not getting an argument! We're getting curt, even rude dismissal. Not only we reasonable, we are biased fans, predisposed to agree with and support Ubuntu, to defend it against detractors, and to patiently wait for fixes and features to arrive. We've been doing this for years, after all! And its not just for Unity. It goes for all Ubuntu-related projects. Again and again we hear from fans that they are having difficulty converting people to Ubuntu. This is a very serious, and fixable issue. It's really quite simple: if the dev teams *clearly* told us why they won't fix certain issues, and *clearly* told us where they are heading in the future, we would very likely agree, and we would be able to disseminate these arguments widely. We want to help: please use us! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882274 Title: Community engagement is broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/882274/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Hello everyone. I've opened a separate bug on this, in hopes of addressing the underlying issue: Community engagement is broken: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/882274 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/null/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Hi all you complainers! ;) I've created a detailed guide on how to achieve a decent workaround for this problem, by using DockbarX, Synapse and Unity's 2D Panel in Compiz: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11368937 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/null/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Sigh! Oneiric made things worse for me -- the Launcher and Dash are now pushed always to the far left, no matter which monitor is primary. I guess this fixes some issues, but it makes it quite unusable in my multi-monitor setup. Because I don't want to abandon Unity entirely (there's a lot to love about it), I'd like to suggest these workarounds for the Launcher/Dash, which are good enough for me, kinda. Use DockbarX instead of the Launcher (and set the Launcher to autohide). DockbarX supports Unity quicklists! And of course is very configurable. The folk at WebUpd8 keep an up-to-date PPA for it: https://launchpad.net/~nilarimogard/+archive/webupd8 Note that you want to launch dockx for the standalone dock (DockbarX can also work inside the AWN dock). Also, BigRZA made a nice Unity theme for it: http://bigrza.deviantart.com/art/unite-11-04-theme-197980167 There are a few alternatives for the Dash, and all are available in the Ubuntu repositories: GNOME Do, Kupfer, Synapse, Launchy. My favorite is Synapse: it's minimal and looks good. Unfortunately, none of these support the Unity Lens feature. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/null/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 857668] Re: Launcher shows on the primary monitor instead of the left most monitor
I'm glad to see that bugs are being fixed, but the bug I originally opened (which was marked as a duplicate of this) was just made worse. My multi-monitor setup is such that it's very inconvenient to do any work on the leftmost monitor. It's true that I had issues with having the launcher on the monitor on the right, but at least I could easily access it! With the launcher on the leftmost monitor, there's simply no way I can use comfortably use Unity. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/857668 Title: Launcher shows on the primary monitor instead of the left most monitor To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/857668/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@nick-xrva A GNOME2-like desktop *is* available in Oneiric, if you install the package gnome-panel. This comes from the GNOME project, as they're also trying to give users an easier transition. However, from what I've seen so far, this GNOME Classic is very limited. The panels only mimic the GNOME2 look, and do not support panel applets. So, if you install that and gnome-shell in Oneiric, you have the following login options: * Unity * Unity 2D * GNOME Shell * GNOME Classic I think 4 options for is not bad! And this list is just for GNOME; you also have KDE, XFCE and LXDE desktops, which are also fully supported and easy to install in Ubuntu. All the people threatening to switch to other operating systems because of a few limitations in Unity really need to chill. I should note that both gnome-shell and gnome-panel are very small installations! Since Ubuntu already is based on GNOME 3, the vast majority of the desktop is already there. The desktop shell is really a very small component compared to other parts of the desktop. Still, it's obviously very important and emotional. ;) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/null/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@leaf-2: See my comment above re: the movement of the BFB from the Panel into the Launcher. It seems to me that the main reason the Launcher had to be stuck on the left was that the BFB was on the beginning of the Panel (which is also why flipping *everything* to the right seemed to be the only choice for right-to-left languages). That means that the Launcher was always locked in a 90-degree angle to the Panel, with the BFB as axis. A very severe limitation! Now that the BFB is *in* the panel (on Oneiric), this limitation seems to have disappeared. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/null/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
@magnes: For what seems to be the first time ever in open source, Unity is actually being designed in conjunction with usability studies, which involve a close look at the habits of a sampling of users interacting with the desktop. Statistics are gathered on things like where their mouse pointer moves and where they click, where they pause and where they spend time. This is a more scientific approach to usability than the community is used to. It doesn't mean there's no overall vision, but it does mean that the weight of a lot of design decisions ends up being external to any one person's opinion. Of course, you also look at statistics and not just the average: if you seem that half of the test sample exhibits one habit and the other exhibits the opposite habit, you need to take that into account in your design. I don't think this is blind, I think it's actually perceptive. The limitations of this approach are that you need to present the test sample users with an actually running desktop to play with. So, it takes a few iteration until things are perfected. I definitely applaud the Unity team for this innovation, and hope other open source projects learn from it. @paul: Market rules and leadership notwithstanding, Launchpad is an integral part of the process of improving Ubuntu. Some of the complaints here are indeed over-the-top (people threatening to move to XFCE, oh noes!) but there are a few reasonable arguments, too. Everyone here wants Ubuntu to succeed. The irony is that you are whining about our whining. If you don't agree with this effort, just get over it. :) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/null/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
This bug has been made don't fix and is ignored by the Unity team. However, it has been an important discussion forum for the (often frustrated) community of users! And so, I'd like to point everyone to a relevant change in Unity coming for Oneiric: the BFB in the top left corner is moving into the launcher. More on this here: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/08/revamped-dash-lands-unity-2d/ This has lots of advantages in my view (no more clicking it by mistake when you are trying to click on the File menu of an app). But, the most important one for this won't fix bug is that it now makes more sense to be able to move the launcher other parts of the screen without breaking the association with the BFB. The whole shell structure could exist anywhere while staying 'unified'. I don't know if there are plans to allow for this, but it's a move in the right direction for us. I also want to point out that apparently Unity's vision is not so much a unified idea sprouting from Mark Shuttleworth's brain, but instead a product of ongoing usability research by hired 3rd party teams. This is good because it allows for evolution, but bad because it seems arbitrary. Our won't fix bug might end up getting fixed because some research intern point out the obvious issues that have been filling these 84 comments, not because a leader steps up and says these guys are right. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/null/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 773578] Re: Switching to Thunderbird via SUPER+# does not switch workspace
Its too bad that this bug expired, because it still an issue, even with Thunderbird 5 (and a few other applications). Switching to applications on a different workspace is simply unreliable. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/773578 Title: Switching to Thunderbird via SUPER+# does not switch workspace To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/773578/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
This bug has been closed as Won't Fix and is unassigned. Nobody is working on it. Not only that, Mark Shuttleworth has said that it's not a bug, and that it's part of Unity's vision, and so it seems unlikely that any patches that do enable this behavior will be accepted. A possible option is for the community to fork Unity and create a different version that is more customizable, but it's not something I would personally do, because it would mean constantly chasing and merging fixes from the official version. My conclusion is that Unity is and will continue being a frustrating choice for multi-monitor desktop setups and for users of right-to-left languages. I do enjoy it on my English laptop, but it's frustrating to have to keep switching paradigms when I move to working on my desktop. I really hope to be able to run Unity everywhere. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/null/+bug/668415/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
Melroy, If they refuse to fix this, then it should be seen as a different kind of bug: If Unity detects that it's in a multi-monitor setup and that the primary monitor is not the leftmost, then it should display a warning to the user that this is not a fully supported setup, perhaps helpfully offering to automatically switch the primary monitor to the leftmost for the user. (Though this may be difficult to do with proprietary drivers that have their own monitor setup tools.) The current situation is very clearly broken, because everything seems to be OK (no warnings) and yet this setup is not properly supported. This has nothing to do with design goals: this is objectively a bug. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 720446] Re: possible memory leak in compiz when using places, dashboard
I'll add that I use the same indicators in Unity and Gnome Classic with Compiz, and the memory leak does not seem to happening in the latter case. If it is something with the indicators, then it's specific to Unity. Any word from the devs on clues for this issue? Even a workaround would be much appreciated. This is a serious problem on a few different machines of mine with very different hardware and configurations. :( -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/720446 Title: possible memory leak in compiz when using places, dashboard -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 772889] Re: Launcher does not hide/unhide properly in dual monitor setup
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 757652 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/757652 Sebastian, this is not the same bug as 757652! The launcher *does* appear in the correct position for me. The issue is hiding/unhiding it via the mouse. I will try to create a screenshot as suggested, although it's difficult because this is animation. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/772889 Title: Launcher does not hide/unhide properly in dual monitor setup -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 773578] Re: Switching to Thunderbird via SUPER+# does not switch workspace
New information: this bug does NOT appear when using Thunderbird 3.3 alpha 3 (Namaroka). This bug ONLY appears for me when using the version of Thunderbird provided in the Ubuntu repositories. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/773578 Title: Switching to Thunderbird via SUPER+# does not switch workspace -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 772889] Re: Launcher does not hide/unhide properly in dual monitor setup
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 757652 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/757652 OK, I have a screenshot for you! But it requires some explanation. :) What you see is the border between my two monitors, with the Launcher on the left edge (as usual) of the right monitor. The screenshot did not capture my mouse pointer, but imagine that it is right now on the middle of the BFB. You are seeing the Launcher in the middle of fading in to full view, so it is half-transparent. The thing is, it stays in exactly that half-transparent state until I move my mouse pointer left a few pixels, so that it would land exactly in the hot spot which is at the top left of the BFB. Until I move the mouse pointer there, not only is the Launcher half-transparent, but it is also not clickable. I absolutely have to hit that hot spot for it to become useful. Second issue: I also reported that setting the Launcher to never hide mode was also broken for me (windows all got pulled towards the area between the two Launchers and were un-reachable). I tried to duplicate it again in order to create a screenshot for you, but this time it didn't happen, and never hide works OK! Maybe I changed a setting somewhere, or an update came in? I do not know. I'm glad, though, that my bug report is up, and hopefully is someone else has the same issue they can find it and help us triage. ** Attachment added: screenshot.png https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/772889/+attachment/2108068/+files/screenshot.png -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/772889 Title: Launcher does not hide/unhide properly in dual monitor setup -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 668415] Re: Movement of Unity launcher
I'm writing to support Liamo comment #60. I have that exact setup: two monitors, where my right monitor is primary. Because of the way my desk is arranged, the left monitor is not in front of me, and having the Launcher there would be a pain -- literally, to my neck. The best option I have now is the Launcher on the left of my right screen. It's a rather sad option. I've tried to make the launcher to never hide, which would be better, but that creates another bug, which I've reported separately: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/772889 It seems that this rather common use case has been overlooked! The design concept is perfect on my single-screen laptop, but for my desktop environment Unity is frustrating. While it's possible for me to use other shells or desktops, as Mark suggests, it would require me to use an entirely different workflow for my desktop and my laptop, not to mention the 5 other Ubuntu computers I use. Not a lot of unity in that experience. ;) A comment to Mark: your very terse won't fix response here is not one of your finest moments of engaging the community. Some people may be clamoring for customization for its own sake, which doesn't make sense to me and may try your patience, but some of us are pointing out a serious usability problem. Mark, perhaps the design vision for this particular issue could use some rethinking? To add insult to my injury: my native language is written right-to-left. But, I'm not even going to try it with Unity, and stick to English. (Even if Unity worked nicely, other parts of the desktop would surely break from my experience!) So, is part of Unity's vision to enforce a left-to-right world? I'll just add that I happen to love Unity's vision generally. It's a refreshing pleasure to use on my (English) laptop, and I would love to have the same on my desktop. I just don't see this happening without the Launcher being movable to the right, but would happy to hear a different solution (other than to rebuild my office!). -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668415 Title: Movement of Unity launcher -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 773578] Re: Switching to Thunderbird via SUPER+# does not switch workspace
It is reproducible. 1. Natty Narwhal, clean install. 2. Use two monitors. (NVIDIA propriety drivers in Twin mode.) In my case, the primary monitor is the right one. 3. I've installed Thunderbird from the Ubuntu repository, and run it. I have it on Workspace #1 on the left monitor. 4. Go to Workspace #2 and run any application. Click on it to make it active. 5. Press SUPER key for a second, to have the numbers show up on the Unity Launcher. Press the number for the Thunderbird window (in my case it was 5). The workspace will NOT switch to Workspace #1, even though Thunderbird has the focus. When I use any application other than Thunderbird, the workspace does switch correctly. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/773578 Title: Switching to Thunderbird via SUPER+# does not switch workspace -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 558750] Re: [lucid] edge scrolling does not work anymore
Exactly the same for me. HP Mini 311. -- [lucid] edge scrolling does not work anymore https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/558750 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
