Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Ian Malone]

On 2 September 2015 at 21:45, Ranjan Maitra
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if it is possible to use a PCI-e SSD for the root and swap 
> partitions of a workstation running F22. I am thinking of installing F22 and 
> my swap here -- the machine has 64GB memory. So I am considering getting a 
> 128 GB PCI-e SSD, and leaving 96 GB for swap and 32 GB for /. /home will be 
> on a different SATA HDD.
>
> Do you have any suggestions and recommendations for a 128 GB PCI-e SSD?
>

Well, since you've had no more useful answers than I can give, 32GB is
just about enough for /. (I've squeezed home and / into that on my
laptop, but need to keep an eye on space). It should work provided the
motherboard supports it and there are modules in fedora for it
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3goigc/anyone_here_running_fedora_22_with_an_nvme_boot/

Out of curiosity, what are you doing that needs that much memory? I
was going to say with 64GB you probably don't need swap until I saw
how much you were planning to allocate...

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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Ian Malone]

On 4 September 2015 at 13:50, Ranjan Maitra
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 10:33:16 +0100 Ian Malone  wrote:
>
>> On 2 September 2015 at 21:45, Ranjan Maitra
>>  wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I was wondering if it is possible to use a PCI-e SSD for the root and swap 
>> > partitions of a workstation running F22. I am thinking of installing F22 
>> > and my swap here -- the machine has 64GB memory. So I am considering 
>> > getting a 128 GB PCI-e SSD, and leaving 96 GB for swap and 32 GB for /. 
>> > /home will be on a different SATA HDD.
>> >
>> > Do you have any suggestions and recommendations for a 128 GB PCI-e SSD?
>> >
>>
>> Well, since you've had no more useful answers than I can give, 32GB is
>> just about enough for /. (I've squeezed home and / into that on my
>> laptop, but need to keep an eye on space). It should work provided the
>> motherboard supports it and there are modules in fedora for it
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3goigc/anyone_here_running_fedora_22_with_an_nvme_boot/
>
> Thanks. Given Fedora mailing list's sudden general lack of activity from 
> around the same time I posted, I was wondering if something had happened to 
> the ML server.
>
> Thank you for the pointer to that webpage.
>
> There are PCI-e SSD slots on the machine, so I will take a look at the 
> motherboard.
>
> Funny, I was looking at a 128 GB Samsung PCI-e SSD referred to in the article 
> -- gLad to know that it works.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147431_re=pci_ssd-_-20-147-431-_-Product
>
>> Out of curiosity, what are you doing that needs that much memory? I
>> was going to say with 64GB you probably don't need swap until I saw
>> how much you were planning to allocate...
>
> I do a lot of computing with my computers. Some of the alternative methods 
> that I may replace requires a lot of memory. I belong to the old school where 
> swap mattered a great deal, and so it was recommended to put 2x memory in 
> there. But I am not sure if that is needed to be 2x as much anymore, This is 
> the first time I will go down to 1.5x, thought 1x may well be adequate.
>

I can think of some things that would run into that kind of memory,
but not many for normal desktop or office use. (My own area is medical
imaging where what we're doing is often 1-2GB per core, though for
some things like statistical analysis you need RAM to load all the
data into memory, then depending on sample size you could get into 10s
GB). Databases and other high end stuff like video editing also eat
RAM, but I think the 2x recommendation is probably outdated for most
cases now. We typically run machines with only a quarter the swap that
they have in RAM, because running into swap on disc is a serious
slowdown anyway, but don't eliminate it altogether as it provides a
softer landing when you run out of RAM, a system running out of memory
when swapping seems to have time to auto kill processes, while one
with no swap more often just sticks hard.

The other place lots of RAM helps is disc caching, which is of course
not helped by swap and less of a benefit if using SSD.

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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Ranjan Maitra]

Hi,

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 10:33:16 +0100 Ian Malone  wrote:

> On 2 September 2015 at 21:45, Ranjan Maitra
>  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was wondering if it is possible to use a PCI-e SSD for the root and swap 
> > partitions of a workstation running F22. I am thinking of installing F22 
> > and my swap here -- the machine has 64GB memory. So I am considering 
> > getting a 128 GB PCI-e SSD, and leaving 96 GB for swap and 32 GB for /. 
> > /home will be on a different SATA HDD.
> >
> > Do you have any suggestions and recommendations for a 128 GB PCI-e SSD?
> >
> 
> Well, since you've had no more useful answers than I can give, 32GB is
> just about enough for /. (I've squeezed home and / into that on my
> laptop, but need to keep an eye on space). It should work provided the
> motherboard supports it and there are modules in fedora for it
> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3goigc/anyone_here_running_fedora_22_with_an_nvme_boot/

Thanks. Given Fedora mailing list's sudden general lack of activity from around 
the same time I posted, I was wondering if something had happened to the ML 
server. 

Thank you for the pointer to that webpage. 

There are PCI-e SSD slots on the machine, so I will take a look at the 
motherboard.

Funny, I was looking at a 128 GB Samsung PCI-e SSD referred to in the article 
-- gLad to know that it works. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147431_re=pci_ssd-_-20-147-431-_-Product
 
> Out of curiosity, what are you doing that needs that much memory? I
> was going to say with 64GB you probably don't need swap until I saw
> how much you were planning to allocate...

I do a lot of computing with my computers. Some of the alternative methods that 
I may replace requires a lot of memory. I belong to the old school where swap 
mattered a great deal, and so it was recommended to put 2x memory in there. But 
I am not sure if that is needed to be 2x as much anymore, This is the first 
time I will go down to 1.5x, thought 1x may well be adequate. 

My plan is to have the "System" in Fedora Anaconda parlance in this SSD (for 
faster response times). The "Data" (/home) will be in the 2TB SATA which will 
be mirrored onto a H/W RAID 1 of another 2TB. And just for people like me who 
also like to see things, I will also have a backup of 2TB SSD, which will be 
backed up every 2 or 4 hourse using rsync with the appropriate options.

Many thanks again!

Ranjan


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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[François Patte]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Le 02/09/2015 22:45, Ranjan Maitra a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if it is possible to use a PCI-e SSD for the root
> and swap partitions of a workstation running F22. I am thinking of 
> installing F22 and my swap here -- the machine has 64GB memory. So
> I am considering getting a 128 GB PCI-e SSD, and leaving 96 GB for
> swap and 32 GB for /. /home will be on a different SATA HDD.
> 
> Do you have any suggestions and recommendations for a 128 GB PCI-e 
> SSD?

I have this: Samsung SSD 840, but I think that it is not what you are
talking about.

- -- 
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UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)1 8394 5849
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
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Version: GnuPG v2

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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Mihamina Rakotomandimby]

On 09/04/2015 03:50 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing that needs that much memory? I
>was going to say with 64GB you probably don't need swap until I saw
>how much you were planning to allocate...

I do a lot of computing with my computers. Some of the alternative methods that 
I may replace requires a lot of memory. I belong to the old school where swap 
mattered a great deal, and so it was recommended to put 2x memory in there. But 
I am not sure if that is needed to be 2x as much anymore, This is the first 
time I will go down to 1.5x, thought 1x may well be adequate.

My plan is to have the "System" in Fedora Anaconda parlance in this SSD (for faster 
response times). The "Data" (/home) will be in the 2TB SATA which will be mirrored onto a 
H/W RAID 1 of another 2TB. And just for people like me who also like to see things, I will also 
have a backup of 2TB SSD, which will be backed up every 2 or 4 hourse using rsync with the 
appropriate options.

Many thanks again!


If I take the traditional computing scheme, such as compiling the Linux 
kernel, much of the need is to also have fast storage in the code source 
tree.


Depending on what compiler you use and what option you give it, the I/O 
generated by object files (just an example) would kill your performances.


My suggestion would be to leave the system on the "slow disk", as you 
boot one time, and put the source tree either in "tmpfs" or SSD.


HTH
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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Joe Zeff]

On 09/04/2015 08:18 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:

There was a time, a long time ago, when I compiled the kernel, -O2 and
-O3 lead me to different misbehaviour.
Being "old" now, I dont compile my kernel anymore ;-


I can remember when the only way to upgrade the kernel was to download 
the source and compile it.  It's been years since I've had to do that, 
and I've no desire to do it again.

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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:20:24 -0700 Joe Zeff  wrote:

> On 09/04/2015 08:18 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
> > There was a time, a long time ago, when I compiled the kernel, -O2 and
> > -O3 lead me to different misbehaviour.
> > Being "old" now, I dont compile my kernel anymore ;-
> 
> I can remember when the only way to upgrade the kernel was to download 
> the source and compile it.  It's been years since I've had to do that, 
> and I've no desire to do it again.

I think you are giving me more credit than you should. I do not compile 
anything to do with the kernel or anything for that matter that comes from the 
Fedora repos. I was just talking about compiling my own source code. 

I usually debug with -g, run valgrind, and then after that recompile with -O3 
send it to do the big stuff. -O3 has appeared to be faster than -O2, and not 
given me weird answers.

Any more suggestions on the PCI-e SSD?

Ranjan


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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 09/04/2015 04:58 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:


I used gcc with -O3 or -Ofast. Any suggestions on this?


Stay with -O2 unless you precisely know what you are doing.

Playing with -O3 and -Ofast may squeeze out some usecs somewhere, but 
because you are using less used and tested paths of the compiler, you're 
at risk of facing bugs/miscompilation etc.



Ralf


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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Ranjan Maitra]

> If I take the traditional computing scheme, such as compiling the Linux 
> kernel, much of the need is to also have fast storage in the code source 
> tree.
> 
> Depending on what compiler you use and what option you give it, the I/O 
> generated by object files (just an example) would kill your performances.

Good point. Perhaps, one way to get around this is to also move executables and 
libraries generated by me to the "System" side of things, using perhaps a make 
install.

I used gcc with -O3 or -Ofast. Any suggestions on this? 

> My suggestion would be to leave the system on the "slow disk", as you 
> boot one time, and put the source tree either in "tmpfs" or SSD.

Any suggestions of a specific PCI-e SSD. I would prefer 128 GB or something not 
larger than that.

Best wishes,
Ranjan


 
> HTH
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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Mihamina Rakotomandimby]

On 09/04/2015 05:58 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

If I take the traditional computing scheme, such as compiling the Linux
kernel, much of the need is to also have fast storage in the code source
tree.

Depending on what compiler you use and what option you give it, the I/O
generated by object files (just an example) would kill your performances.

Good point. Perhaps, one way to get around this is to also move executables and libraries 
generated by me to the "System" side of things, using perhaps a make install.

I used gcc with -O3 or -Ofast. Any suggestions on this?


Not being a specialist, I would say that the safer is the best option. 
Optimisation flags comes with drawbacks on some codebase.
There was a time, a long time ago, when I compiled the kernel, -O2 and 
-O3 lead me to different misbehaviour.

Being "old" now, I dont compile my kernel anymore ;-)


My suggestion would be to leave the system on the "slow disk", as you
boot one time, and put the source tree either in "tmpfs" or SSD.

Any suggestions of a specific PCI-e SSD. I would prefer 128 GB or something not 
larger than that.



I know OVH really liked Intel brand, and they provide dedicated servers 
where you can choose many OSes.

That's just what I know.

But I'm certain your feedback would be interesting.

At least, buy your in a store where you have choice *and* where you can 
replace it if ever fails to run with your OS.

Could be more expensive, but...


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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Joe Zeff]

On 09/04/2015 09:33 AM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

I think you are giving me more credit than you should. I do not compile 
anything to do with the kernel or anything for that matter that comes from the 
Fedora repos. I was just talking about compiling my own source code.


No, not really.  I was just reminded of how things used to be and how 
glad I am that I don't have to go through all that any more.  And, since 
all I had back then was dial-up, I'd only upgrade about every fourth or 
five kernel update.

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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Michael Hennebry]

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015, Ranjan Maitra wrote:


I used gcc with -O3 or -Ofast. Any suggestions on this?


If you mean -ffast-math, I'd recommend against.
Among other things, it enables -funsafe-math,
which means what it says.

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PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Ranjan Maitra]

Hi,

I was wondering if it is possible to use a PCI-e SSD for the root and swap 
partitions of a workstation running F22. I am thinking of installing F22 and my 
swap here -- the machine has 64GB memory. So I am considering getting a 128 GB 
PCI-e SSD, and leaving 96 GB for swap and 32 GB for /. /home will be on a 
different SATA HDD.

Do you have any suggestions and recommendations for a 128 GB PCI-e SSD?

Many thanks,
Ranjan

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