Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Neal Becker]

On Sat, May 6, 2023 at 4:04 AM Barry  wrote:

>
>
> > On 5 May 2023, at 21:48, Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 4:04 PM Tim via users
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Tim:
>  Are you falling foul of the recent Gnome change that puts a machine
>  to sleep if it considers that it's been idle for about 15 minutes?
> 
>  One of the all-time *DUMB* moves by Gnome.
> >>
> >> George N. White III:
> >>> Not at all.  Large organizations are trying to reduce power
> >>> consumption by workstations sitting idle overnight, during meetings,
> >>> lunch breaks, etc.
> >>
> >> And what do you think they're going to do?  Undo that setting, so that
> >> they don't have to deal with employees annoyed at having to wake up
> >> their PCs all day long because they don't actually use the PC
> >> constantly to keep it awake, but do need to refer to it a lot, and the
> >> wait for resumption while trying to keep a customer on the phone is
> >> being a pain, an inability for IT to remotely manage PCs when they
> >> want, and debugging PCs that don't wake from suspend/hibernation.
> >>
> >> Greenwashing...
> >
> > The most annoying thing (to me) was, Fedora maintainers did not make
> > the setting default for new installs. Instead, they changed the
> > setting for existing installs, like  a F37 -> F38 system upgrade.
>
> I read elsewhere that the setting change is to the default.
> If you had ever changed the power settings the default is not used
> apparently.
>
> The default is used on new installs, and because it is the default also
> applies to upgrades, as i say, if you had not changed the default power
> settings.
>
> I am not a gnome used so have no direct experience of this change.
>
> Barry
>
> >
> > It really annoyed me when a couple of my machines went to sleep and I
> > had to drive across town to wake them and reconfigure them.
> >
> > Jeff
>

Same here, I guess it didn't happen on my test machine that I updated first
because that was switched to sddm, another way to avoid this.
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Barry]

> On 5 May 2023, at 21:48, Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 4:04 PM Tim via users
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Tim:
 Are you falling foul of the recent Gnome change that puts a machine
 to sleep if it considers that it's been idle for about 15 minutes?
 
 One of the all-time *DUMB* moves by Gnome.
>> 
>> George N. White III:
>>> Not at all.  Large organizations are trying to reduce power
>>> consumption by workstations sitting idle overnight, during meetings,
>>> lunch breaks, etc.
>> 
>> And what do you think they're going to do?  Undo that setting, so that
>> they don't have to deal with employees annoyed at having to wake up
>> their PCs all day long because they don't actually use the PC
>> constantly to keep it awake, but do need to refer to it a lot, and the
>> wait for resumption while trying to keep a customer on the phone is
>> being a pain, an inability for IT to remotely manage PCs when they
>> want, and debugging PCs that don't wake from suspend/hibernation.
>> 
>> Greenwashing...
> 
> The most annoying thing (to me) was, Fedora maintainers did not make
> the setting default for new installs. Instead, they changed the
> setting for existing installs, like  a F37 -> F38 system upgrade.

I read elsewhere that the setting change is to the default.
If you had ever changed the power settings the default is not used
apparently.

The default is used on new installs, and because it is the default also
applies to upgrades, as i say, if you had not changed the default power
settings.

I am not a gnome used so have no direct experience of this change.

Barry

> 
> It really annoyed me when a couple of my machines went to sleep and I
> had to drive across town to wake them and reconfigure them.
> 
> Jeff
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 4:04 PM Tim via users
 wrote:
>
> Tim:
> >> Are you falling foul of the recent Gnome change that puts a machine
> >> to sleep if it considers that it's been idle for about 15 minutes?
> >>
> >> One of the all-time *DUMB* moves by Gnome.
>
> George N. White III:
> > Not at all.  Large organizations are trying to reduce power
> > consumption by workstations sitting idle overnight, during meetings,
> > lunch breaks, etc.
>
> And what do you think they're going to do?  Undo that setting, so that
> they don't have to deal with employees annoyed at having to wake up
> their PCs all day long because they don't actually use the PC
> constantly to keep it awake, but do need to refer to it a lot, and the
> wait for resumption while trying to keep a customer on the phone is
> being a pain, an inability for IT to remotely manage PCs when they
> want, and debugging PCs that don't wake from suspend/hibernation.
>
> Greenwashing...

The most annoying thing (to me) was, Fedora maintainers did not make
the setting default for new installs. Instead, they changed the
setting for existing installs, like  a F37 -> F38 system upgrade.

It really annoyed me when a couple of my machines went to sleep and I
had to drive across town to wake them and reconfigure them.

Jeff
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Tim via users]

Tim:
>> Are you falling foul of the recent Gnome change that puts a machine
>> to sleep if it considers that it's been idle for about 15 minutes?
>> 
>> One of the all-time *DUMB* moves by Gnome.

George N. White III:
> Not at all.  Large organizations are trying to reduce power
> consumption by workstations sitting idle overnight, during meetings,
> lunch breaks, etc.

And what do you think they're going to do?  Undo that setting, so that
they don't have to deal with employees annoyed at having to wake up
their PCs all day long because they don't actually use the PC
constantly to keep it awake, but do need to refer to it a lot, and the
wait for resumption while trying to keep a customer on the phone is
being a pain, an inability for IT to remotely manage PCs when they
want, and debugging PCs that don't wake from suspend/hibernation.

Greenwashing...
 
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[George N. White III]

On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 6:50 PM Todd Zullinger  wrote:

> Tim via users wrote:
> > On Thu, 2023-05-04 at 16:20 -0400, Neal Becker wrote:
> >
> >> I may have another problem but time will tell (running on the newer
> >> kernel connecting via ssh several times I've walked away and then the
> >> machine is nonresponsive to ping, have to force power cycle to
> >> recover.)
> >
> > Are you falling foul of the recent Gnome change that puts a machine to
> > sleep if it considers that it's been idle for about 15 minutes?
> >
> > One of the all-time *DUMB* moves by Gnome.
>

Not at all.  Large organizations are trying to reduce power consumption by
workstations sitting idle overnight, during meetings, lunch breaks, etc.

>
> And if so, this post in the Common Issues area should help
> adjust the settings:
>
>
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/gnome-suspends-after-15-minutes-of-user-inactivity-even-on-ac-power/79801
>
> This doesn't affect Fedora Server, so if the system is only
> used as a server, installing from the Server image instead
> of Workstation might help avoid any future changes which are
> aimed at laptop/desktop users. (I don't care for this change
> either way -- but it's much easier to deal with on a local
> system than a remote server.)
>

Wake-om-lan fits many use cases (user needs network access to
a "sleeping" system.  My "daily driver" is an old iMac that lives in an
outbuilding.   I often use ssh from a laptop after doing "wake-on-lan".

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[George N. White III]

On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 5:22 PM Neal Becker  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 3:09 PM Tim Evans  wrote:
>
>> On 5/4/23 14:37, Neal Becker wrote:
>> > Just updated my server F37->F38.  The display doesn't start (black
>> > screen after boot).
>> >
>> > journalctl shows many messages like:
>> >
>> > May 04 14:32:00 nbecker8 kernel: nouveau :01:00.0: bus: MMIO read
>> of
>> >  FAULT at 616330 [ PRIVRING ]
>> >
>> > nouveau?  This was running nvidia driver before the update (from
>> rpmfusion).
>> > Any ideas?
>>
>> Had this happen to me as well.  Booted back to the last F37 kernel and
>> problem went away.  Current F38 kernel (6.2.14-300.fc38.x86_64) works ok.
>>
>
> Well I did boot from previous kernel, in this case 6.2.14-200.fc37.x86_64
> (don't have an older fc38 kernel, I wasn't able to update to F38 until
> today), and display is working fine.  I may have another problem but time
> will tell (running on the newer kernel connecting via ssh several times
> I've walked away and then the machine is nonresponsive to ping, have to
> force power cycle to recover.)
>

Fedora has changed default power management (because large organizations
are
watching power consumption of systems left idle for long periods.  You
should try
wake-on-lan when a system stops responding to remote network access (ping,
ssh,
etc.).

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Joe Zeff]

On 05/04/2023 04:13 PM, Neal Becker wrote:


This is used as a server and only usually accessed remotely.


In that case, why have a GUI active at all unless you're on site? 
Having it boot to a CLI eliminates the problem, doesn't it?

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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Samuel Sieb]

On 5/4/23 15:14, Neal Becker wrote:


On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 6:13 PM Neal Becker > wrote:


On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 5:50 PM Todd Zullinger mailto:t...@pobox.com>> wrote:
This doesn't affect Fedora Server, so if the system is only
used as a server, installing from the Server image instead
of Workstation might help avoid any future changes which are
aimed at laptop/desktop users. (I don't care for this change
either way -- but it's much easier to deal with on a local
system than a remote server.)

This is used as a server and only usually accessed remotely.  Would
this shutdown the machine even if nobody had logged in at the
console display?


Just to clarify, it is used as a server but workstation edition is 
installed on it.


If it's sitting at the GDM login screen, then it will automatically 
suspend after 15 minutes.

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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Neal Becker]

On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 6:13 PM Neal Becker  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 5:50 PM Todd Zullinger  wrote:
>
>> Tim via users wrote:
>> > On Thu, 2023-05-04 at 16:20 -0400, Neal Becker wrote:
>> >
>> >> I may have another problem but time will tell (running on the newer
>> >> kernel connecting via ssh several times I've walked away and then the
>> >> machine is nonresponsive to ping, have to force power cycle to
>> >> recover.)
>> >
>> > Are you falling foul of the recent Gnome change that puts a machine to
>> > sleep if it considers that it's been idle for about 15 minutes?
>> >
>> > One of the all-time *DUMB* moves by Gnome.
>>
>> And if so, this post in the Common Issues area should help
>> adjust the settings:
>>
>>
>> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/gnome-suspends-after-15-minutes-of-user-inactivity-even-on-ac-power/79801
>>
>> This doesn't affect Fedora Server, so if the system is only
>> used as a server, installing from the Server image instead
>> of Workstation might help avoid any future changes which are
>> aimed at laptop/desktop users. (I don't care for this change
>> either way -- but it's much easier to deal with on a local
>> system than a remote server.)
>>
>> This is used as a server and only usually accessed remotely.  Would this
> shutdown the machine even if nobody had logged in at the
> console display?
>

Just to clarify, it is used as a server but workstation edition is
installed on it.
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Neal Becker]

On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 5:50 PM Todd Zullinger  wrote:

> Tim via users wrote:
> > On Thu, 2023-05-04 at 16:20 -0400, Neal Becker wrote:
> >
> >> I may have another problem but time will tell (running on the newer
> >> kernel connecting via ssh several times I've walked away and then the
> >> machine is nonresponsive to ping, have to force power cycle to
> >> recover.)
> >
> > Are you falling foul of the recent Gnome change that puts a machine to
> > sleep if it considers that it's been idle for about 15 minutes?
> >
> > One of the all-time *DUMB* moves by Gnome.
>
> And if so, this post in the Common Issues area should help
> adjust the settings:
>
>
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/gnome-suspends-after-15-minutes-of-user-inactivity-even-on-ac-power/79801
>
> This doesn't affect Fedora Server, so if the system is only
> used as a server, installing from the Server image instead
> of Workstation might help avoid any future changes which are
> aimed at laptop/desktop users. (I don't care for this change
> either way -- but it's much easier to deal with on a local
> system than a remote server.)
>
> This is used as a server and only usually accessed remotely.  Would this
shutdown the machine even if nobody had logged in at the
console display?
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Todd Zullinger]

Tim via users wrote:
> On Thu, 2023-05-04 at 16:20 -0400, Neal Becker wrote:
> 
>> I may have another problem but time will tell (running on the newer
>> kernel connecting via ssh several times I've walked away and then the
>> machine is nonresponsive to ping, have to force power cycle to
>> recover.)
> 
> Are you falling foul of the recent Gnome change that puts a machine to
> sleep if it considers that it's been idle for about 15 minutes?
> 
> One of the all-time *DUMB* moves by Gnome.

And if so, this post in the Common Issues area should help
adjust the settings:

https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/gnome-suspends-after-15-minutes-of-user-inactivity-even-on-ac-power/79801

This doesn't affect Fedora Server, so if the system is only
used as a server, installing from the Server image instead
of Workstation might help avoid any future changes which are
aimed at laptop/desktop users. (I don't care for this change
either way -- but it's much easier to deal with on a local
system than a remote server.)

-- 
Todd


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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Tim via users]

On Thu, 2023-05-04 at 16:20 -0400, Neal Becker wrote:

> I may have another problem but time will tell (running on the newer
> kernel connecting via ssh several times I've walked away and then the
> machine is nonresponsive to ping, have to force power cycle to
> recover.)

Are you falling foul of the recent Gnome change that puts a machine to
sleep if it considers that it's been idle for about 15 minutes?

One of the all-time *DUMB* moves by Gnome.
 
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Neal Becker]

On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 3:09 PM Tim Evans  wrote:

> On 5/4/23 14:37, Neal Becker wrote:
> > Just updated my server F37->F38.  The display doesn't start (black
> > screen after boot).
> >
> > journalctl shows many messages like:
> >
> > May 04 14:32:00 nbecker8 kernel: nouveau :01:00.0: bus: MMIO read of
> >  FAULT at 616330 [ PRIVRING ]
> >
> > nouveau?  This was running nvidia driver before the update (from
> rpmfusion).
> > Any ideas?
>
> Had this happen to me as well.  Booted back to the last F37 kernel and
> problem went away.  Current F38 kernel (6.2.14-300.fc38.x86_64) works ok.
>

Well I did boot from previous kernel, in this case 6.2.14-200.fc37.x86_64
(don't have an older fc38 kernel, I wasn't able to update to F38 until
today), and display is working fine.  I may have another problem but time
will tell (running on the newer kernel connecting via ssh several times
I've walked away and then the machine is nonresponsive to ping, have to
force power cycle to recover.)
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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Tim Evans]

On 5/4/23 14:37, Neal Becker wrote:
Just updated my server F37->F38.  The display doesn't start (black 
screen after boot).


journalctl shows many messages like:

May 04 14:32:00 nbecker8 kernel: nouveau :01:00.0: bus: MMIO read of 
 FAULT at 616330 [ PRIVRING ]


nouveau?  This was running nvidia driver before the update (from rpmfusion).
Any ideas?


Had this happen to me as well.  Booted back to the last F37 kernel and 
problem went away.  Current F38 kernel (6.2.14-300.fc38.x86_64) works ok.

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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Joe Zeff]

On 05/04/2023 12:37 PM, Neal Becker wrote:


nouveau?  This was running nvidia driver before the update (from rpmfusion).
Any ideas?


Do you run kmod-nvidia or akmod?  If the former, the appropriate kmod 
might not be ready yet.  Just boot into the previous kernel, and stay 
there until the new kmod shows up.  If you're using the akmod, boot into 
a CLI so that neither Xorg or Wayland is running and as root run (I 
think) akmod --force and see what happens.  If it works, reboot; if 
there are errors, boot into the previous kernel and report this to the 
rpmfusion bugzilla.

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Re: nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 2:38 PM Neal Becker  wrote:
>
> Just updated my server F37->F38.  The display doesn't start (black screen 
> after boot).
>
> journalctl shows many messages like:
>
> May 04 14:32:00 nbecker8 kernel: nouveau :01:00.0: bus: MMIO read of 
>  FAULT at 616330 [ PRIVRING ]
>
> nouveau?  This was running nvidia driver before the update (from rpmfusion).
> Any ideas?

I thought RPM Fusion released updates today. Have you updated today?

If not, then many folks are using `dnf update --allowerasing`.

Jeff
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nvidia problem F37->F38 update

[Neal Becker]

Just updated my server F37->F38.  The display doesn't start (black screen
after boot).

journalctl shows many messages like:

May 04 14:32:00 nbecker8 kernel: nouveau :01:00.0: bus: MMIO read of
 FAULT at 616330 [ PRIVRING ]

nouveau?  This was running nvidia driver before the update (from rpmfusion).
Any ideas?

Thanks,
Neal
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