Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Михаил Гаврилов]

I'm afraid that we have never agreed until someone misused .

Let's first decide what numbers is meant by number type.
If our answer would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_number
The years is the smallest part of all the numbers.
Anyway always can use  for them.

Also a special case is the number of a credit card and any number with
leading zero. Because leading zero no have significance and will
always be clipped in numbers. For such cases, it is necessary always
use text or masked text.





--
Best Regards,
Mike Gavrilov.


2015-10-14 18:11 GMT+05:00 Boris Zbarsky :
> On 10/14/15 5:47 AM, Михаил Гаврилов wrote:
>>
>> 2015-10-14 0:41 GMT+05:00 Boris Zbarsky :
>>>
>>> See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=974175 for details.
>>
>>
>> I think the problem with the display of the year with the help of
>>  far-fetched.
>
>
> In what sense?  People are doing it right now, and people do not expect to
> see "2,015" as the year.  They just don't.
>
>> Sooner or later year will be five-digit and more
>
>
> You mean "later", right?  ;)  Seriously, I expect the computer interaction
> modalities to be quite different by then, assuming the concept even makes
> sense at that point.
>
>> And in general I think for selecting date should be used for
>> special types of input: type="month" type="year".
>
>
> That's great, and I agree, but that's not what people are doing in practice.
>
> -Boris

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Boris Zbarsky]

On 10/15/15 9:58 AM, Михаил Гаврилов wrote:

I understand an option to add an attribute to manually specify a
delimiter is not considered here.


I think this is the thing that has the best chance of success: having 
explicit opt-in to various different formatting behaviors based on 
knowledge of what sort of "number" you're showing.


-Boris

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Boris Zbarsky]

On 10/15/15 2:35 AM, Михаил Гаврилов wrote:

Let's first decide what numbers is meant by number type.


Good luck with that.  Everyone seems to feel it's a different thing.


Also a special case is the number of a credit card and any number with
leading zero. Because leading zero no have significance and will
always be clipped in numbers. For such cases, it is necessary always
use text or masked text.


And yet people consistently try to use  for these. 
 For credit card numbers it's silly, but for hours/minutes it's not 
unreasonable, if only to get the little up/down spinners.


Yes, the fact that people are trying to shoehorn a wide variety of quite 
different use cases into  is unfortunate.


-Boris

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Ian Hickson]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015, Михаил Гаврилов wrote:
>
> Frankly I do not understand it means, yes or no?
> I am first time here.
> How did approval procedure takes place?
> Anything else I need to do or describe final idea? Any examples how
> make this better.

You may find more details about how things work here in our 
FAQ: https://whatwg.org/faq

HTH.

-- 
Ian Hickson   U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/   U+263A/,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Михаил Гаврилов]

Frankly I do not understand it means, yes or no?
I am first time here.
How did approval procedure takes place?
Anything else I need to do or describe final idea? Any examples how
make this better.
Thanks.





--
Best Regards,
Mike Gavrilov.


2015-10-15 20:30 GMT+05:00 Boris Zbarsky :
> On 10/15/15 9:58 AM, Михаил Гаврилов wrote:
>>
>> I understand an option to add an attribute to manually specify a
>> delimiter is not considered here.
>
>
> I think this is the thing that has the best chance of success: having
> explicit opt-in to various different formatting behaviors based on knowledge
> of what sort of "number" you're showing.
>
> -Boris

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Михаил Гаврилов]

2015-10-14 0:41 GMT+05:00 Boris Zbarsky :
> See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=974175 for details.

I think the problem with the display of the year with the help of
 far-fetched. Sooner or later year will
be five-digit and more, and 85321 year will be better to look like
85,321. And in general I think for selecting date should be used for
special types of input: type="month" type="year".



--
Best Regards,
Mike Gavrilov.

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Ashley Sheridan]

On 14 October 2015 10:47:43 BST, "Михаил Гаврилов" 
 wrote:
>2015-10-14 0:41 GMT+05:00 Boris Zbarsky :
>> See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=974175 for details.
>
>I think the problem with the display of the year with the help of
> far-fetched. Sooner or later year will
>be five-digit and more, and 85321 year will be better to look like
>85,321.

I think we have 8000 years to worry about 5-digit years. We might not even be 
using HTML by then…

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Boris Zbarsky]

On 10/14/15 5:47 AM, Михаил Гаврилов wrote:

2015-10-14 0:41 GMT+05:00 Boris Zbarsky :

See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=974175 for details.


I think the problem with the display of the year with the help of
 far-fetched.


In what sense?  People are doing it right now, and people do not expect 
to see "2,015" as the year.  They just don't.



Sooner or later year will be five-digit and more


You mean "later", right?  ;)  Seriously, I expect the computer 
interaction modalities to be quite different by then, assuming the 
concept even makes sense at that point.



And in general I think for selecting date should be used for
special types of input: type="month" type="year".


That's great, and I agree, but that's not what people are doing in practice.

-Boris

[whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Михаил Гаврилов]

Hi to all!
Excuse me I am newbie here.
I want make a proposal for displaying thousand separator in numeric
input fields.
Most users would be more satisfied if in any  would seen as 1 234 567 890.012 345
678 9
of course thousand separator must depend of local settings.
1234567890.0123456789 = 1,234,567,890.012,345,678,9
Anyway thousand separator will not be sended to the server when the
form is submitted and not be accessed from Javascript for example:


console.log(document.getElementById('input1').value);
//return: 1234567890.0123456789

Ie thousand separator affects only the display of numbers for
improving readability.


--
Best Regards,
Mike Gavrilov.

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Boris Zbarsky]

On 10/13/15 3:35 PM, Domenic Denicola wrote:

S ... any implementers interested in solving this problem?


Note that Gecko used to show such separators, then stopped doing that. 
See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=974175 for details.


It might be worth having some way to opt in to this sort of formatting, 
but the issues raised regarding editing in that bug report would still 
need to be sorted out...


-Boris

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Jonas Sicking]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Domenic Denicola  wrote:
> especially since custom elements are unable to participate in the form 
> control ecosystem

That is very fixable though. There have been good proposals made.

/ Jonas

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for showing thousand separator in form controls.

[Domenic Denicola]

This has come up before; I think 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2014Feb/0075.html is 
the most recent thread on the subject. In general, the spec does not mandate 
such UI features of browsers, but the input types are somewhat of a gray area 
in that regard, since part of their purpose is specifically to give better UI 
presentation.

My suggestion during that thread was to delegate to ES's i18n API: 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2014Feb/0094.html

In general, this type of thing is hard to get support for these days. 
Implementers are more interested in getting stuff like web components in place 
so that authors can produce better controls, without waiting for them to be 
debated, standardized, and implemented everywhere. I think it'd be a worthwhile 
improvement, especially since custom elements are unable to participate in the 
form control ecosystem (constraint validation, form submission, etc.). But 
we're going to need implementer interest before anything gets done here.

S ... any implementers interested in solving this problem?