Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
When we did our Res Halls, the requirements I put in place were no more than 30 devices per AP and a minimum RSSI of -63 in 2.4 GHz. It worked out that every 3 rooms had an AP, and I staggered the installation across the hall and between floor to get sort of pyramid shaped coverage zones (if you did connect the dots in 3D). Though we allow students to have up to 4 devices on the WiFi network, students probably average closer to two devices. We try to push static devices with WiFi capability (desktops and game systems) to wired connections (one wired drop per bed). The only issue I've had since fall of 2012 were all client configuration issues (yay Vista!). -- Heath Barnhart ITS Network Administrator Washburn University 785-670-2307 On Wed, 2013-12-11 at 16:27 -0500, Barros, Jacob wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178tel:574.372.5100%20x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning spin-off - Student provided wifi
On Dec 16, 2013, at 06:39 , Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) bosbo...@liberty.edu wrote: Aruba already has their product on the market – the AP93H. http://www.arubanetworks.com/products/access-points/ap-93h/ Biggest difference though is that it’s not dual band. -- Julian Y. Koh Acting Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services Northwestern University Information Technology (NUIT) 2001 Sheridan Road #G-166 Evanston, IL 60208 847-467-5780 NUIT Web Site: http://www.it.northwestern.edu/ PGP Public Key:http://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
And of course having just installed your multi thousand AP wireless network, fully surveyed and planned for data only (as agreed in the scope), you then get told that it will now need to support Lync 2013 VOIP clients on thousands of staff mobiles/cell phones...sigh. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Betr.: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Hi Jennifer, Agreed that these are different requirements but IMHO a well designed HD data WLAN has much of the characteristics of a VOIP wlan although especially roaming is quite a beast to tame... -Kees Jennifer Francis Wilson jfwils...@uclan.ac.uk 12/13/2013 10:50 And of course having just installed your multi thousand AP wireless network, fully surveyed and planned for data only (as agreed in the scope), you then get told that it will now need to support Lync 2013 VOIP clients on thousands of staff mobiles/cell phones...sigh. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. --- Op deze e-mail zijn de volgende voorwaarden van toepassing: The following conditions apply to this e-mail: http://emaildisclaimer.avans.nl --- ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Betr.: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Oh? Which one? I was only aware of the Iphone doing 802.11r. Mike On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 7:39 AM, Jennifer Francis Wilson jfwils...@uclan.ac.uk wrote: Granted, but then you have to try and explain to senior management that most Android phones don't even do Fast roaming (I only know of one for certain that supports 802.11r). Jen. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kees Pronk Sent: 13 December 2013 12:15 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Betr.: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Hi Jennifer, Agreed that these are different requirements but IMHO a well designed HD data WLAN has much of the characteristics of a VOIP wlan although especially roaming is quite a beast to tame... -Kees Jennifer Francis Wilson jfwils...@uclan.ac.uk 12/13/2013 10:50 And of course having just installed your multi thousand AP wireless network, fully surveyed and planned for data only (as agreed in the scope), you then get told that it will now need to support Lync 2013 VOIP clients on thousands of staff mobiles/cell phones...sigh. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. --- Op deze e-mail zijn de volgende voorwaarden van toepassing: The following conditions apply to this e-mail: http://emaildisclaimer.avans.nl --- ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning spin-off - Student provided wifi
Through contacts at my alma mater, I know they were doing what you describe until this year. This is their first year with a managed wifi deployment. I don't know how happy they are with the new system, but I can tell you they had a lot of complaints under the old method. Joel Coehoorn Director of Information Technology York College, Nebraska 402.363.5603 jcoeho...@york.edu *The mission of York College is to transform lives through Christ-centered education and to equip students for lifelong service to God, family, and society* On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: I didn't think this topic would generate that much buzz. Thank you all for your feed back. Allow me to jump tracks here and and throw out a concept that may seem heretical. In res halls, has anyone provided ONLY wired connections and allowed students to bring in their own router(s). From a managed perspective, there are several reasons why it's a bad idea. However I cannot shake the notion that with proper education, the rewards might outweigh the risks. To me, the target reward is that the student receives the level of service they want where they want it. The user can chose what device is desired and upgrade as they see fit and the technology is always current. IT would help with best practices, education and limited support but the student is ultimately responsible. I would really like to pitch this for an apartment style dorm that is being built. Does anyone think this model can work? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning spin-off - Student provided wifi
I forgot to add: that institution is about 5000 residential undergrads, about 12 residence halls, and about 40/60 apartment vs dormitory. Joel Coehoorn Director of Information Technology York College, Nebraska 402.363.5603 jcoeho...@york.edu *The mission of York College is to transform lives through Christ-centered education and to equip students for lifelong service to God, family, and society* On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Coehoorn, Joel jcoeho...@york.edu wrote: Through contacts at my alma mater, I know they were doing what you describe until this year. This is their first year with a managed wifi deployment. I don't know how happy they are with the new system, but I can tell you they had a lot of complaints under the old method. Joel Coehoorn Director of Information Technology York College, Nebraska 402.363.5603 jcoeho...@york.edu *The mission of York College is to transform lives through Christ-centered education and to equip students for lifelong service to God, family, and society* On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.eduwrote: I didn't think this topic would generate that much buzz. Thank you all for your feed back. Allow me to jump tracks here and and throw out a concept that may seem heretical. In res halls, has anyone provided ONLY wired connections and allowed students to bring in their own router(s). From a managed perspective, there are several reasons why it's a bad idea. However I cannot shake the notion that with proper education, the rewards might outweigh the risks. To me, the target reward is that the student receives the level of service they want where they want it. The user can chose what device is desired and upgrade as they see fit and the technology is always current. IT would help with best practices, education and limited support but the student is ultimately responsible. I would really like to pitch this for an apartment style dorm that is being built. Does anyone think this model can work? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning spin-off - Student provided wifi
Sounds like a bad idea.Most SOHO routers/ap's you pick up at bestbuy/fry's run at max Tx power and have lowest supported data-rate of 1Mbps. Your 2.4GHz RF will be likely be unusable. ResHalls are even worse (RF-wise) than apartments, as they are much closer together.Let me know if you'd like me to expand on this but I'd say the following will greatly impact the usability if each suite/room has it's own soho ap:*CCI*ACI (with no channel plan, these devices will be on more than just 1,6,11)*Security (even w/ WPA2-PSK, most of these devices support the broken WPS)My experience is you either pay up-front (in $ or staff-time) to properly survey, or you pay on the back-end in troubleshooting.You are right about Education though. Regardless of the direction you choose, get signage, put it on the welcome packet etc. etc. Setting expectations has helped us a lot, especially when there's a MWO in every room and we are @ 50% 2.4GHz-only clients.Mike AlbanoUNLV-The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU wrote: -To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUFrom: "Barros, Jacob" jkbar...@grace.eduSent by: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUDate: 12/13/2013 09:36AMSubject: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning spin-off - Student provided wifiI didn't think this topic would generate that much buzz. Thank you all for your feed back. Allow me to jump tracks here and and throw out a concept that may seem heretical. In res halls, has anyone provided ONLY wired connections and allowed students to bring in their own router(s). From a managed perspective, there are several reasons why it's a bad idea. However I cannot shake the notion that with proper education, the rewards might outweigh the risks. To me, the target reward is that the student receives the level of service they want where they want it. The user can chose what device is desired and upgrade as they see fit and the technology is always current. IT would help with best practices, education and limited support but the student is ultimately responsible. I would really like to pitch this for an apartment style dorm that is being built. Does anyone think this model can work?Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning spin-off - Student provided wifi
For new residence halls, I would really push the 702W AP. They're not actually out yet, but depending on how far out you are you could still account for them in your plan. If you haven't seen them yet, http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/wireless/ps5678/ps12968/data_sheet_c78-728968.html Each AP is dual band, has a 4 port switch built in. Almost like a SOHO router, but you get the added bonus to be able to manage it through your WLC's, and PoE powered. And at 2dBm at the lowest power level, you can contain the broadcast area. And if your res halls are anything like ours with the walls made of concrete, signals should go beyond each room. Britton Anderson blanders...@alaska.edu | Senior Network Communications Specialist | Office of Information Technology http://www.alaska.edu/oit | 907.450.8250 On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Mike Albano mike.alb...@unlv.edu wrote: Sounds like a bad idea. Most SOHO routers/ap's you pick up at bestbuy/fry's run at max Tx power and have lowest supported data-rate of 1Mbps. Your 2.4GHz RF will be likely be unusable. ResHalls are even worse (RF-wise) than apartments, as they are much closer together. Let me know if you'd like me to expand on this but I'd say the following will greatly impact the usability if each suite/room has it's own soho ap: *CCI *ACI (with no channel plan, these devices will be on more than just 1,6,11) *Security (even w/ WPA2-PSK, most of these devices support the broken WPS) My experience is you either pay up-front (in $ or staff-time) to properly survey, or you pay on the back-end in troubleshooting. You are right about Education though. Regardless of the direction you choose, get signage, put it on the welcome packet etc. etc. Setting expectations has helped us a lot, especially when there's a MWO in every room and we are @ 50% 2.4GHz-only clients. Mike Albano UNLV -The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU wrote: - To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU From: Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu Sent by: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: 12/13/2013 09:36AM Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning spin-off - Student provided wifi I didn't think this topic would generate that much buzz. Thank you all for your feed back. Allow me to jump tracks here and and throw out a concept that may seem heretical. In res halls, has anyone provided ONLY wired connections and allowed students to bring in their own router(s). From a managed perspective, there are several reasons why it's a bad idea. However I cannot shake the notion that with proper education, the rewards might outweigh the risks. To me, the target reward is that the student receives the level of service they want where they want it. The user can chose what device is desired and upgrade as they see fit and the technology is always current. IT would help with best practices, education and limited support but the student is ultimately responsible. I would really like to pitch this for an apartment style dorm that is being built. Does anyone think this model can work? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Thanks to all for your feedback. Max, do you publish these best practices or is it internal? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Max Lawrence Lopez max.lo...@colorado.eduwrote: Hello Jake, Here are our Best Practices: University of Colorado Best Practices Guide for Wireless Design The following is a list of the Best Practices used for creating Wireless Network Designs for the Boulder Campus of the University of Colorado. This design includes optimal coverage cells, power settings and channel configuration for the access points: · All designs are based upon 95% coverage within the coverage areas for an 802.11n 5GHz design @ - 65dBm or better. · Coverage for 802.11n 2.4 GHz with be @ -67dBm or better · Channel Plan for the 2.4 GHz Plan will only use channels 1, 6, 11. · Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will use channels 36+, 44+, 52+, 60+, 149+, 157+. (UNII-2 Extended optional) · Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will be based upon 40 GHz Channel Bonding · User Capacity Requirements of 1 client device per seat in the lecture halls. · User Capacity Requirements of 3 client devices per bedroom in the residence halls. · Access Points will be designed for 40 connections per AP to provide optimal experiences for typical web browsing and email applications. · Make and Model of Client Requested APs: o Cisco Aironet 3500 Series Access Point (AIR-CAP3502I-x-K9) o Cisco Aironet 3600 Series Access Points · Outdoor units will be installed to in climate and weather protected boxes. - Build a WLAN design to incorporate wall attenuation factors based upon on site measurements for absorption (when provided) and industry standards for reflection of the identified building materials - The entire wireless network design will be constructed with uniform transmit power for all Access Points (except in the Lecture Halls where low power APs will be deployed as required for density issues). - Stairwells, storage areas and elevators do not require coverage. *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Barros, Jacob *Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2013 2:28 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point. We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has. What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone. We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet. But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI. I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values. Curious what folks think of that strategy. Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking. I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic. Thanks, -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/11/13, 5:38 PM, Tristan Gulyas wrote: Hi all, What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we’re lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example. We’d like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available. Tristan On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu mailto:jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 tel:574.372.5100%20x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW. Closer to 17. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point. We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has. What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone. We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel(r) Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet. But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI. I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values. Curious what folks think of that strategy. Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking. I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic. Thanks, -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbris...@uvm.edumailto:dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/11/13, 5:38 PM, Tristan Gulyas wrote: Hi all, What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we're lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example. We'd like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available. Tristan On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edumailto:jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178tel:574.372.5100%20x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
This blog post at aerohive has good info on determining transmit power on devices. Interesting that the report lists different power levels at different frequencies. http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-network-revolution/apple-ipad-3-and-other-mobile-device-wi-fi-output-power -- Jason Watts Pratt Institute, Academic Computing Senior Network Administrator Sent from my iPhone On Dec 12, 2013, at 1:54 PM, Turner, Ryan H rhtur...@email.unc.edu wrote: Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW. Closer to 17. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point. We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has. What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone. We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet. But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI. I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values. Curious what folks think of that strategy. Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking. I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic. Thanks, -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/11/13, 5:38 PM, Tristan Gulyas wrote: Hi all, What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we’re lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example. We’d like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available. Tristan On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
As a good example I was down in an area just yesterday that mentioned of poor signal and I initially went down with my nexus 7 and my analyzer program and could barely get -80 dbm. I found it very odd so I went back and got my laptop with Ekahau and my ekahau usb-300(?) nic and was easily getting 65-68 dbm. I too should have surveyed with a lower power setting on my nic. Craig Eyre Network Analyst IT Services Department Mount Royal University 4825 Mount Royal Gate SW Calgary AB T2P 3T5 P. 403.440.5199 E. ce...@mtroyal.ca The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. Vincent T. Lombardi Jason Watts ---12/12/2013 12:07:53 PM---This blog post at aerohive has good info on determining transmit power on devices. Interesting that From: Jason Watts jwa...@pratt.edu To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU, Date: 12/12/2013 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Sent by: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU This blog post at aerohive has good info on determining transmit power on devices. Interesting that the report lists different power levels at different frequencies. http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-network-revolution/apple-ipad-3-and-other-mobile-device-wi-fi-output-power -- Jason Watts Pratt Institute, Academic Computing Senior Network Administrator Sent from my iPhone On Dec 12, 2013, at 1:54 PM, Turner, Ryan H rhtur...@email.unc.edu wrote: Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW. Closer to 17. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson Sent:Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM To:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject:Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point. We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has. What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone. We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet. But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI. I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values. Curious what folks think of that strategy. Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking. I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic. Thanks, -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/11/13, 5:38 PM, Tristan Gulyas wrote: Hi all, What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we’re lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example. We’d like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available. Tristan On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. inline: graycol.gif
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Also, coming in a bit late, but I am beginning to think the best method for my reshalls anyway is to put an AP in every other room, as they run linearly down a hallway. Then stagger the floor above to offset by one room. We've been doing every 3rd room lately and while it seems adequate, I think for density purposes, as well as signal level, moving to the every other room makes sense in the long run. As someone else mentioned, power output levels are one thing, antenna performance is another and then one still doesn't know anything about the device's' receive sensitivity which is another factor in the RF realm. On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Dan Brisson dbris...@uvm.edu wrote: Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point. We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has. What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone. We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet. But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI. I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values. Curious what folks think of that strategy. Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking. I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic. Thanks, -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/11/13, 5:38 PM, Tristan Gulyas wrote: Hi all, What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we’re lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example. We’d like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available. Tristan On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178574.372.5100%20x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. -- Michael Sjulstad -RML 258 Network/Electronics Engineer Information Technology St. Olaf College Northfield, MN 55057 Ph: 507-786-3835 Email: sjuls...@stolaf.edu ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Yikes, didn't think they were weak but it has been a while since I've looked. Based on that, are folks aiming to accommodate that weak of a signal at -65 or close to that? -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/12/13, 1:54 PM, Turner, Ryan H wrote: Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW. Closer to 17. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile *From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Dan Brisson *Sent:* Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point. We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has. What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone. We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet. But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI. I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values. Curious what folks think of that strategy. Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking. I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic. Thanks, -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbris...@uvm.edu mailto:dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/11/13, 5:38 PM, Tristan Gulyas wrote: Hi all, What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we're lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example. We'd like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available. Tristan On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu mailto:jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 tel:574.372.5100%20x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
To put it in perspective, the transmit powers for iPhone 5 (yanked from: http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-network-revolution/apple-iphone-5-wi-fi-specs) Frequency bands supported: *2.4 GHz ISM (Channels 1 - 11), Power Output ~16dBm *5 GHz UNII-1 (Channels 36 - 48), Power Output ~14dBm *5 GHz UNII-2 (Channels 52 - 64), Power Output ~13.5dBm *5 GHz UNII-2Ext. (Channels 100 - 140), Power Output ~12dBm *5 GHz UNII-3 (Channels 149 - 161), Power Output ~13dBm *5 GHz ISM (Channel 165), Power Output ~13dBm - See more at: http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-network-revolution/apple-iphone-5-wi-fi-specs#sthash.8jMYDOni.dpuf Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 2:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Yikes, didn't think they were weak but it has been a while since I've looked. Based on that, are folks aiming to accommodate that weak of a signal at -65 or close to that? -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbris...@uvm.edumailto:dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/12/13, 1:54 PM, Turner, Ryan H wrote: Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW. Closer to 17. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point. We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has. What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone. We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel(r) Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet. But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI. I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values. Curious what folks think of that strategy. Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking. I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic. Thanks, -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbris...@uvm.edumailto:dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/11/13, 5:38 PM, Tristan Gulyas wrote: Hi all, What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we're lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example. We'd like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available. Tristan On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edumailto:jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178tel:574.372.5100%20x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
It seems to me to be completely impractical from a planning and budgetary perspective to be increasing the density of AP's on an annual basis due to poor client design, whether low transmit power, antenna deficiency, or insufficiently well designed front-ends. If a device can't connect to the same wireless network, side by side with last year's device, then from my perspective, that's an issue with the device, not an infrastructure issue. Thanks -- ian Sent from my phone, please excuse brevity and misspelling. From: Turner, Ryan Hmailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu Sent: 12/12/2013 18:54 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW. Closer to 17. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point. We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has. What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone. We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet. But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI. I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values. Curious what folks think of that strategy. Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking. I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic. Thanks, -dan Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbris...@uvm.edumailto:dbris...@uvm.edu On 12/11/13, 5:38 PM, Tristan Gulyas wrote: Hi all, What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we’re lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example. We’d like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available. Tristan On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edumailto:jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178tel:574.372.5100%20x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
On 12/12/2013 5:11 PM, Ian McDonald wrote: It seems to me to be completely impractical from a planning and budgetary perspective to be increasing the density of AP's on an annual basis due to poor client design, whether low transmit power, antenna deficiency, or insufficiently well designed front-ends. If a device can't connect to the same wireless network, side by side with last year's device, then from my perspective, that's an issue with the device, not an infrastructure issue. Well, when most of us started wireless deployment, it was pretty optimistic to plan for a laptop per student / class seat / dorm bed, this was the same time we were doing ResNet plans with a port per pillow -- a plan which game consoles initially wrecked, now followed by BluRays and Smart TVs and femtocells and who-knows-what-else. And now for wireless, it's certainly not just laptops (we have more registered/identified BYODs than computers now). Wireless devices continue to explode... its not last year's device that can't necessarily communicate, it's the 3-4 extras today over the original device that cause the issues. If you designed for 2.4G power/distance back when 2.4G was in vogue, and 5G was either ancient (11a) or new again (11n), it wasn't necessarily a design goal, and 5G doesn't tolerate walls, etc as well. Not sure about 11ac, but 11ad at even higher frequencies will penetrate even less. So yeah, if we had to do it over again AND knew what we know today... sure. How many deployed 11a/b/g over 100Mb ports? And out of those, how many were Cat6/6A? Regretting any of those decisions yet? Just give it time :) Things evolve. I'd agree they should last longer than last year but things change *fast* in this business :) Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
It not just poor client design, however (and I can't really always call it poor design, because who here doesn't get peeved with a short battery life device?? Which is what low transmit power helps). We are really switching from a coverage based design to capacity based design. If we want people to be able to do more with wireless, it can't come from just a change in wireless PHY. It also has to come from increased density, which will in turn lead to less shared bandwidth and higher through-put. I think the days of getting by with a coverage based deployment are coming to an end, and the days of planning for capacity is already here. The big question is how many of us have adjusted for this model? We still haven't. Ryan From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeff Kell Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:30 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning On 12/12/2013 5:11 PM, Ian McDonald wrote: It seems to me to be completely impractical from a planning and budgetary perspective to be increasing the density of AP's on an annual basis due to poor client design, whether low transmit power, antenna deficiency, or insufficiently well designed front-ends. If a device can't connect to the same wireless network, side by side with last year's device, then from my perspective, that's an issue with the device, not an infrastructure issue. Well, when most of us started wireless deployment, it was pretty optimistic to plan for a laptop per student / class seat / dorm bed, this was the same time we were doing ResNet plans with a port per pillow -- a plan which game consoles initially wrecked, now followed by BluRays and Smart TVs and femtocells and who-knows-what-else. And now for wireless, it's certainly not just laptops (we have more registered/identified BYODs than computers now). Wireless devices continue to explode... its not last year's device that can't necessarily communicate, it's the 3-4 extras today over the original device that cause the issues. If you designed for 2.4G power/distance back when 2.4G was in vogue, and 5G was either ancient (11a) or new again (11n), it wasn't necessarily a design goal, and 5G doesn't tolerate walls, etc as well. Not sure about 11ac, but 11ad at even higher frequencies will penetrate even less. So yeah, if we had to do it over again AND knew what we know today... sure. How many deployed 11a/b/g over 100Mb ports? And out of those, how many were Cat6/6A? Regretting any of those decisions yet? Just give it time :) Things evolve. I'd agree they should last longer than last year but things change *fast* in this business :) Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
In certain areas, sure. One more thing we're going to have to divine from our tea leaves is which areas only need coverage, and which need the extra money sunk in for high capacity. Unfortunately, all it takes is a professor who wants in class laptop survey software getting scheduled in the wrong room to blow up your original plan. Personally, I'm still waiting for a vendor to release an AP with dual 5GHz radios, so I can just buy one of those to add capacity in that band instead of buying two dual band units and turning the 2.4 radio off. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Turner, Ryan H rhtur...@email.unc.edu wrote: It not just poor client design, however (and I can't really always call it poor design, because who here doesn't get peeved with a short battery life device?? Which is what low transmit power helps). We are really switching from a coverage based design to capacity based design. If we want people to be able to do more with wireless, it can't come from just a change in wireless PHY. It also has to come from increased density, which will in turn lead to less shared bandwidth and higher through-put. I think the days of getting by with a coverage based deployment are coming to an end, and the days of planning for capacity is already here. The big question is how many of us have adjusted for this model? We still haven't. Ryan From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeff Kell Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:30 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning On 12/12/2013 5:11 PM, Ian McDonald wrote: It seems to me to be completely impractical from a planning and budgetary perspective to be increasing the density of AP's on an annual basis due to poor client design, whether low transmit power, antenna deficiency, or insufficiently well designed front-ends. If a device can't connect to the same wireless network, side by side with last year's device, then from my perspective, that's an issue with the device, not an infrastructure issue. Well, when most of us started wireless deployment, it was pretty optimistic to plan for a laptop per student / class seat / dorm bed, this was the same time we were doing ResNet plans with a port per pillow -- a plan which game consoles initially wrecked, now followed by BluRays and Smart TVs and femtocells and who-knows-what-else. And now for wireless, it's certainly not just laptops (we have more registered/identified BYODs than computers now). Wireless devices continue to explode... its not last year's device that can't necessarily communicate, it's the 3-4 extras today over the original device that cause the issues. If you designed for 2.4G power/distance back when 2.4G was in vogue, and 5G was either ancient (11a) or new again (11n), it wasn't necessarily a design goal, and 5G doesn't tolerate walls, etc as well. Not sure about 11ac, but 11ad at even higher frequencies will penetrate even less. So yeah, if we had to do it over again AND knew what we know today... sure. How many deployed 11a/b/g over 100Mb ports? And out of those, how many were Cat6/6A? Regretting any of those decisions yet? Just give it time :) Things evolve. I'd agree they should last longer than last year but things change *fast* in this business :) Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
We're in the process, right now. We've got basic coverage, and in the classrooms we've tried to accommodate for higher density. However, with 3, 4 or more devices per student - or person really - we're looking at a refresh of the 1,400 APs we have now and effectively doubling that - or more. Sure, this is a back of the envelope budget number, but it's also based on the demands from our user community with multiple devices, buildings with LEED certification that cell phones won't work inside well, and RF doesn't penetrate concrete and rebar filled cinder block walls very well. Shrink the cell, the AP doesn't have to transmit as high of a power, and there's hopefully less interference from the Xbox controllers, microwave ovens, cordless phones, etc. etc. etc. We basically did coverage based design with ROWN v1.0 back in 2005, and have migrated in the new construction to capacity based design. With a refresh of network hardware (due to EOS/EOL notices from multiple vendors on our specific hardware standard models), we're looking to make it another 8 - 10 years with a new focus on capacity. It's not as if users are going to quit having multiple devices. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Well, the problem is with the natural attenuation of the 5 gig band. Since it can only go half the distance that 2.4 can go with the same power level, you are going to have to space these things apart if you want people to move from cell to cell on the 5 gig band and maintain a high data rate. No easy way to skin this cat ☺ From: Frank Sweetser [mailto:f...@wpi.edu] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:41 PM To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv; Turner, Ryan H Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning In certain areas, sure. One more thing we're going to have to divine from our tea leaves is which areas only need coverage, and which need the extra money sunk in for high capacity. Unfortunately, all it takes is a professor who wants in class laptop survey software getting scheduled in the wrong room to blow up your original plan. Personally, I'm still waiting for a vendor to release an AP with dual 5GHz radios, so I can just buy one of those to add capacity in that band instead of buying two dual band units and turning the 2.4 radio off. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Turner, Ryan H rhtur...@email.unc.edumailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu wrote: It not just poor client design, however (and I can’t really always call it poor design, because who here doesn’t get peeved with a short battery life device?? Which is what low transmit power helps). We are really switching from a coverage based design to capacity based design. If we want people to be able to do more with wireless, it can’t come from just a change in wireless PHY. It also has to come from increased density, which will in turn lead to less shared bandwidth and higher through-put. I think the days of getting by with a coverage based deployment are coming to an end, and the days of planning for capacity is already here. The big question is how many of us have adjusted for this model? We still haven’t. Ryan From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeff Kell Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:30 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning On 12/12/2013 5:11 PM, Ian McDonald wrote: It seems to me to be completely impractical from a planning and budgetary perspective to be increasing the density of AP's on an annual basis due to poor client design, whether low transmit power, antenna deficiency, or insufficiently well designed front-ends. If a device can't connect to the same wireless network, side by side with last year's device, then from my perspective, that's an issue with the device, not an infrastructure issue. Well, when most of us started wireless deployment, it was pretty optimistic to plan for a laptop per student / class seat / dorm bed, this was the same time we were doing ResNet plans with a port per pillow -- a plan which game consoles initially wrecked, now followed by BluRays and Smart TVs and femtocells and who-knows-what-else. And now for wireless, it's certainly not just laptops (we have more registered/identified BYODs than computers now). Wireless devices continue to explode... its not last year's device that can't necessarily communicate, it's the 3-4 extras today over the original device that cause the issues. If you designed for 2.4G power/distance back when 2.4G was in vogue, and 5G was either ancient (11a) or new again (11n), it wasn't necessarily a design goal, and 5G doesn't tolerate walls, etc as well. Not sure about 11ac, but 11ad at even higher frequencies will penetrate even less. So yeah, if we had to do it over again AND knew what we know today... sure. How many deployed 11a/b/g over 100Mb ports? And out of those, how many were Cat6/6A? Regretting any of those decisions yet? Just give it time :) Things evolve. I'd agree they should last longer than last year but things change *fast* in this business :) Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
On 13/12/13 07:40, Frank Sweetser wrote: In certain areas, sure. One more thing we're going to have to divine from our tea leaves is which areas only need coverage, and which need the extra money sunk in for high capacity. Unfortunately, all it takes is a professor who wants in class laptop survey software getting scheduled in the wrong room to blow up your original plan. Personally, I'm still waiting for a vendor to release an AP with dual 5GHz radios, so I can just buy one of those to add capacity in that band instead of buying two dual band units and turning the 2.4 radio off. Some vendors have APs with radios that can work on either 2.4 or 5GHz. Meru and Xirrus are the ones that come to mind, I can't remember if any other vendors offer that. -- James Andrewartha Network Projects Engineer Christ Church Grammar School Claremont, Western Australia Ph. (08) 9442 1757 Mob. 0424 160 877 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
The cutoff for Cisco wireless phones in 5Ghz is -67 per their design guide for voice and I use closer to -70 in 2.4 Ghz for data-only deployments. These are all low-density deployments however, so YMMV for dorms. Nathan Hay Network Engineer | NOC WinWholesale Inc. 888-225-5947 From: Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU, Date: 12/11/2013 04:27 PM Subject:[WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. * This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. * ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
As we remodel newer dorms moving forward, we put a network drop above the ceiling tile for every other room and then evaluate as needed for placement. We moved from about 4 to 5 access points per dorm building for legacy deployments over to about 20 in newer construction. -67 to -70 dBi is a good threshold as stated. Our biggest hurdle in the past was the lack of existing infrastructure in old buildings, so we're limited to that in certain spaces that haven't undergone construction. Joe Stewart Network Specialist Claremont McKenna College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Hay Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 1:34 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning The cutoff for Cisco wireless phones in 5Ghz is -67 per their design guide for voice and I use closer to -70 in 2.4 Ghz for data-only deployments. These are all low-density deployments however, so YMMV for dorms. Nathan Hay Network Engineer | NOC WinWholesale Inc. 888-225-5947 From: Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU, Date: 12/11/2013 04:27 PM Subject:[WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. * This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. * ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
We're going down the road to wireless coverage everywhere and are using minimum -65 as our design intent in both 2.4 and 5 Ghz. It's more of a vision right now but there's been a fair amount of new construction recently and we've tried to keep to that plan. We've got two new residences starting construction now (5 floors 272 students, 9 floors 272 students) and they'll be the first with the full coverage. Our wireless coverage in public and classroom space has been pretty good but was based on the laptop user sitting in one location. We're challenged now by the lower power handheld devices and the movement so we're drafting plans to revisit and retrofit building by building. Hugh Hugh Flemington Queen's University Kingston Canada -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Hay Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 4:34 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning The cutoff for Cisco wireless phones in 5Ghz is -67 per their design guide for voice and I use closer to -70 in 2.4 Ghz for data-only deployments. These are all low-density deployments however, so YMMV for dorms. Nathan Hay Network Engineer | NOC WinWholesale Inc. 888-225-5947 From: Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU, Date: 12/11/2013 04:27 PM Subject:[WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. * This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. * ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Remember that while a minimum RSSI is still important; with as dense as things have gotten, the bigger challenge these days is keeping up with density while keeping ACI and CCI to a minimum. Having good a good RSSI is useless if you've got four dozen clients all vying for a time slice to get their frames through. -Luke On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Hugh Flemington hugh.fleming...@queensu.ca wrote: We're going down the road to wireless coverage everywhere and are using minimum -65 as our design intent in both 2.4 and 5 Ghz. It's more of a vision right now but there's been a fair amount of new construction recently and we've tried to keep to that plan. We've got two new residences starting construction now (5 floors 272 students, 9 floors 272 students) and they'll be the first with the full coverage. Our wireless coverage in public and classroom space has been pretty good but was based on the laptop user sitting in one location. We're challenged now by the lower power handheld devices and the movement so we're drafting plans to revisit and retrofit building by building. Hugh Hugh Flemington Queen's University Kingston Canada -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Hay Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 4:34 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning The cutoff for Cisco wireless phones in 5Ghz is -67 per their design guide for voice and I use closer to -70 in 2.4 Ghz for data-only deployments. These are all low-density deployments however, so YMMV for dorms. Nathan Hay Network Engineer | NOC WinWholesale Inc. 888-225-5947 From: Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU, Date: 12/11/2013 04:27 PM Subject:[WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. * This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. * ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luke Jenkins Network Engineer Weber State University ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Hello Jake, Here are our Best Practices: University of Colorado Best Practices Guide for Wireless Design The following is a list of the Best Practices used for creating Wireless Network Designs for the Boulder Campus of the University of Colorado. This design includes optimal coverage cells, power settings and channel configuration for the access points: * All designs are based upon 95% coverage within the coverage areas for an 802.11n 5GHz design @ - 65dBm or better. * Coverage for 802.11n 2.4 GHz with be @ -67dBm or better * Channel Plan for the 2.4 GHz Plan will only use channels 1, 6, 11. * Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will use channels 36+, 44+, 52+, 60+, 149+, 157+. (UNII-2 Extended optional) * Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will be based upon 40 GHz Channel Bonding * User Capacity Requirements of 1 client device per seat in the lecture halls. * User Capacity Requirements of 3 client devices per bedroom in the residence halls. * Access Points will be designed for 40 connections per AP to provide optimal experiences for typical web browsing and email applications. * Make and Model of Client Requested APs: o Cisco Aironet 3500 Series Access Point (AIR-CAP3502I-x-K9) o Cisco Aironet 3600 Series Access Points * Outdoor units will be installed to in climate and weather protected boxes. * Build a WLAN design to incorporate wall attenuation factors based upon on site measurements for absorption (when provided) and industry standards for reflection of the identified building materials * The entire wireless network design will be constructed with uniform transmit power for all Access Points (except in the Lecture Halls where low power APs will be deployed as required for density issues). * Stairwells, storage areas and elevators do not require coverage. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Barros, Jacob Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 2:28 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178tel:574.372.5100%20x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Hi all, What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we’re lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example. We’d like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available. Tristan On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu wrote: We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
We have had to begin installing more APs (we have only 30 APs total). I have attributed this to the fact that newer Apple devices will hang onto a bad 5 Ghz connection over a solid 2.4 Ghz, the introduction of lower powered devices (Apple TVs for example), and metal studs in our newer dorms. It seems keeping my users on 5 Ghz is far more difficult than 2.4 Ghz was. Does the above sound correct? Bob Williamson Network Administrator Annie Wright Schools | 827 N Tacoma Ave, Tacoma, WA 98403 | www.aw.org D: 253.272.2216 | F: 253.572.3616 | bob_william...@aw.org Mission: Annie Wright's strong community cultivates individual learners to become well-educated, creative, and responsible citizens for a global society. Find Annie Wright Schools on Facebook Follow our Head of Schools on Twitter @AWShead Be green; keep it on the screen. ~ AWS Green Team -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 1:47 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning As we remodel newer dorms moving forward, we put a network drop above the ceiling tile for every other room and then evaluate as needed for placement. We moved from about 4 to 5 access points per dorm building for legacy deployments over to about 20 in newer construction. -67 to -70 dBi is a good threshold as stated. Our biggest hurdle in the past was the lack of existing infrastructure in old buildings, so we're limited to that in certain spaces that haven't undergone construction. Joe Stewart Network Specialist Claremont McKenna College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Hay Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 1:34 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning The cutoff for Cisco wireless phones in 5Ghz is -67 per their design guide for voice and I use closer to -70 in 2.4 Ghz for data-only deployments. These are all low-density deployments however, so YMMV for dorms. Nathan Hay Network Engineer | NOC WinWholesale Inc. 888-225-5947 From: Barros, Jacob jkbar...@grace.edu To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU, Date: 12/11/2013 04:27 PM Subject:[WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement. Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space? For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros | Network Administrator | Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary | Winona Lake, IN | 574.372.5100 x6178 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. * This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. * ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
