Re: [art] ODF icon design
Hi all, just to inform you: I posted a link to the Artist Sandbox and to this thread on disc...@ux.openoffice.org [1], where the ODF icon discussion is evolving very well. At the moment we are collecting design principles from different platforms and distributions to find out, if there is a way to provide a set of icons that might be used without or with minor modifications only on their desktops. If someone is interested in this topic and not already subscribed to disc...@ux.openoffice.org, here is the link to the thread in the archive: http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discussby=threadfrom=2299760 Best regards Bernhard [1] not yet listed in the archives, but it should be probably this mail: http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discussmsgNo=4469 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: art-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [art] ODF icon design
Hi Stefan, * Stefan Taxhet schrieb: Hi, It's interesting and encouraging to see how much activity a proposed change of the set of document icons can trigger. But I think it's unfortunate that the discussion tends to fray out. This is always a problem with topics affecting different teams and projects. If I want to involve experts on a certain subtopic, I have to join their group, ask for their opinion and support and come back with the results to the main discussion list. I know that some of you are already subscribed to disc...@ux and would suggest to others to do so (discuss-subscr...@ux.openoffice.org). Input from an artworker's point of view is certainly welcome there. Even if I support your invitation - not every artist is interested in UX (happens quite often in such a diversified project like OOo - not even all active contributors subscribe to disc...@ooo). Therefore I asked for support on the design here, collected the first ideas and will come back with the results to disc...@ux.ooo during the next days. Of course it means to repeat parts of the discussion held at the other places, but that's exactly the point: A discussion without involving the experts will not be as well funded as on their own list. It is important to keep the main discussion in one place, but for special questions we have to ask the specialists at their project. Like on d...@marketing the result of the work here will be transported to the UX project - and perhaps we'll see one or another Art Project member on disc...@ux.ooo because working on the topic raised his or her attention on the general idea of ODF icons. I don't konw if I can post the mail on disc...@ux.ooo today, but I'll do it as soon as possible. Best regards Bernhard In my eyes it is not possible to get optimal results, if we just If I only could set the reply-to: header, but that's a different story... Thanks Stefan Bernhard Dippold wrote: Martin Hollmichel schrieb: Hi Bernhard, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Jens, Nik, all thanks for joining this task and for uploading your drafts. I'd like to comment on both of your designs and add a few thoughts not mentioned before (at least not here on this list): Jens: Your app icons look great, but I don't think we should change them in such a radical way with a minor release. If people don't recognize their applications and files, they might become upset... I find them interesting as well. On some colors the seagulls could have some more contrast... Representing the different file formats with other symbols might be a good idea (we should involve UX in that question), even if they are quite abstracted. I think the document icons should looks somehow like document, the shape you choose seem also too abstract for me. But for the present question there is one point to mention: ODF is not eye-catching at all - in fact, you have to search a bit to find the letters (this refers to both of your uploaded icons). Maybe this is the idea behind this, one day the users may associate that shape with ODF, but I have to admit that I'm a bit septic in this aspect ;-) For the moment, the goal with the new icons is to improve user knowledge about ODF - that's the reason why ODF is so prominent on the icons Stella designed. These icons might fit to a more general update to OpenOffice.org - when users know about ODF already (perhaps with OOo4?) [...] Even if I'm not able to design as high quality icons as you both, I uploaded what I think might be a basis of icons that could be used by other applications too: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:BeDipp#personal_sandbox but these still contain the seagulls ?! my understanding from what you've said is: ODF document icons should have no seagulls, the app icons should have them. Sorry, if I've not been clear enough: I still want application related symbols on the icons - they can be less prominent than the ODF eye-catcher, but removing them from Stellas iconset was one of the points I disagreed (besides the loss of file format related colors). I nearly don't mind the application on files that stay unchanged: Browser, viewer, player and so on. In these case the file format is the only important information. But if files are going to be modified, the application becomes important to the user: It makes really a difference if I work on an image with MS paint or GIMP. Same with Writer or gedit on a TXT file. And because of the different features of the ODF supporting applications I'd like to know if a double click opens my ODT file in Writer or any other app. Therefore I'd liek to keep the gull (or any other OOo representing symbol) on the document icons. And I can imagine other applications switching easier to a general ODF icon set, if they can add their app symbol to these icons. And: do we really need to go with the OASIS yellow or violet ? On that yellow I don't like either black or white
Re: [art] ODF icon design
Hi, It's interesting and encouraging to see how much activity a proposed change of the set of document icons can trigger. But I think it's unfortunate that the discussion tends to fray out. I know that some of you are already subscribed to disc...@ux and would suggest to others to do so (discuss-subscr...@ux.openoffice.org). Input from an artworker's point of view is certainly welcome there. If I only could set the reply-to: header, but that's a different story... Thanks Stefan Bernhard Dippold wrote: Martin Hollmichel schrieb: Hi Bernhard, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Jens, Nik, all thanks for joining this task and for uploading your drafts. I'd like to comment on both of your designs and add a few thoughts not mentioned before (at least not here on this list): Jens: Your app icons look great, but I don't think we should change them in such a radical way with a minor release. If people don't recognize their applications and files, they might become upset... I find them interesting as well. On some colors the seagulls could have some more contrast... Representing the different file formats with other symbols might be a good idea (we should involve UX in that question), even if they are quite abstracted. I think the document icons should looks somehow like document, the shape you choose seem also too abstract for me. But for the present question there is one point to mention: ODF is not eye-catching at all - in fact, you have to search a bit to find the letters (this refers to both of your uploaded icons). Maybe this is the idea behind this, one day the users may associate that shape with ODF, but I have to admit that I'm a bit septic in this aspect ;-) For the moment, the goal with the new icons is to improve user knowledge about ODF - that's the reason why ODF is so prominent on the icons Stella designed. These icons might fit to a more general update to OpenOffice.org - when users know about ODF already (perhaps with OOo4?) [...] Even if I'm not able to design as high quality icons as you both, I uploaded what I think might be a basis of icons that could be used by other applications too: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:BeDipp#personal_sandbox but these still contain the seagulls ?! my understanding from what you've said is: ODF document icons should have no seagulls, the app icons should have them. Sorry, if I've not been clear enough: I still want application related symbols on the icons - they can be less prominent than the ODF eye-catcher, but removing them from Stellas iconset was one of the points I disagreed (besides the loss of file format related colors). I nearly don't mind the application on files that stay unchanged: Browser, viewer, player and so on. In these case the file format is the only important information. But if files are going to be modified, the application becomes important to the user: It makes really a difference if I work on an image with MS paint or GIMP. Same with Writer or gedit on a TXT file. And because of the different features of the ODF supporting applications I'd like to know if a double click opens my ODT file in Writer or any other app. Therefore I'd liek to keep the gull (or any other OOo representing symbol) on the document icons. And I can imagine other applications switching easier to a general ODF icon set, if they can add their app symbol to these icons. And: do we really need to go with the OASIS yellow or violet ? On that yellow I don't like either black or white letters, and the violet color doesn't seem to work with black Letters. Why do you need black or white on the colored area? Why don't stay with the combination of yellow and violet? These colors are used for representing OASIS ODF since I got notice of ODF. They are quite unique on the desktop, and in combination they are eye-catching. I don't see a reason for OASIS to skip these colors (perhaps in favor of a blue that is quite similar to the OASIS blue group), but I didn't ask them yet. Best regards Bernhard - To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: art-h...@marketing.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: art-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [art] ODF icon design
Hi Bernhard, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Jens, Nik, all thanks for joining this task and for uploading your drafts. I'd like to comment on both of your designs and add a few thoughts not mentioned before (at least not here on this list): Jens: Your app icons look great, but I don't think we should change them in such a radical way with a minor release. If people don't recognize their applications and files, they might become upset... I find them interesting as well. On some colors the seagulls could have some more contrast... Representing the different file formats with other symbols might be a good idea (we should involve UX in that question), even if they are quite abstracted. I think the document icons should looks somehow like document, the shape you choose seem also too abstract for me. But for the present question there is one point to mention: ODF is not eye-catching at all - in fact, you have to search a bit to find the letters (this refers to both of your uploaded icons). Maybe this is the idea behind this, one day the users may associate that shape with ODF, but I have to admit that I'm a bit septic in this aspect ;-) You did send me a more classic approach offlist - containing the gulls and a gradient in the upper area, lines for writer in the middle and a yellow area with ODF at the bottom. It's quite similar to Nik's draft. Nik, your design is great too - works in small sizes as well as in larger scales, eye-catching by the colors and the gull as separator between application color and content symbols. But looking at your design I notice something I didn't mention before: The ODF icons should be used by as many applications as possible (the present ones by abandonment of any app specific symbols). I'd rather would like to have an area dedicated to such a symbol or graphical element. The symbol should not be more prominent than the ODF area, but give additional information on the application. Jens changed the colors of the OASIS logo (background yellow, text violet), this seems to me to be more eye-catching than the violet logo with white text. Especially in very small size (16x16) when the text is not readable at all, the yellow area with violet border might be a good representation. Even if I'm not able to design as high quality icons as you both, I uploaded what I think might be a basis of icons that could be used by other applications too: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:BeDipp#personal_sandbox but these still contain the seagulls ?! my understanding from what you've said is: ODF document icons should have no seagulls, the app icons should have them. And: do we really need to go with the OASIS yellow or violet ? On that yellow I don't like either black or white letters, and the violet color doesn't seem to work with black Letters. Best regards Bernhard Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: art-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
RE: [art] ODF icon design
Hello Bernhard, all, I just collected some of the icon design drafts to our central sandbox: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/Artist_Sandbox because I'd like to show them to the ODF Icon team (discussion takes place on disc...@ux.ooo). At the moment I'm quite short in time, so please add, what you want to be added. Thanks in advance! I love the ODF icons, really nice. I also like the first alt splash screen by Jens; not a big fan of the colored dots. Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 00:56:33 +0100 From: bernh...@familie-dippold.at To: art@marketing.openoffice.org Subject: Re: [art] ODF icon design Hi all, I just collected some of the icon design drafts to our central sandbox: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/Artist_Sandbox because I'd like to show them to the ODF Icon team (discussion takes place on disc...@ux.ooo). At the moment I'm quite short in time, so please add, what you want to be added. Thanks in advance! Bernhard - To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: art-h...@marketing.openoffice.org _ Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive gift. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_7:092009
Re: [art] ODF icon design
Hi Martin, all, Martin Hollmichel schrieb: Hi Bernhard, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Jens, Nik, all thanks for joining this task and for uploading your drafts. I'd like to comment on both of your designs and add a few thoughts not mentioned before (at least not here on this list): Jens: Your app icons look great, but I don't think we should change them in such a radical way with a minor release. If people don't recognize their applications and files, they might become upset... I find them interesting as well. On some colors the seagulls could have some more contrast... Representing the different file formats with other symbols might be a good idea (we should involve UX in that question), even if they are quite abstracted. I think the document icons should looks somehow like document, the shape you choose seem also too abstract for me. But for the present question there is one point to mention: ODF is not eye-catching at all - in fact, you have to search a bit to find the letters (this refers to both of your uploaded icons). Maybe this is the idea behind this, one day the users may associate that shape with ODF, but I have to admit that I'm a bit septic in this aspect ;-) For the moment, the goal with the new icons is to improve user knowledge about ODF - that's the reason why ODF is so prominent on the icons Stella designed. These icons might fit to a more general update to OpenOffice.org - when users know about ODF already (perhaps with OOo4?) [...] Even if I'm not able to design as high quality icons as you both, I uploaded what I think might be a basis of icons that could be used by other applications too: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:BeDipp#personal_sandbox but these still contain the seagulls ?! my understanding from what you've said is: ODF document icons should have no seagulls, the app icons should have them. Sorry, if I've not been clear enough: I still want application related symbols on the icons - they can be less prominent than the ODF eye-catcher, but removing them from Stellas iconset was one of the points I disagreed (besides the loss of file format related colors). I nearly don't mind the application on files that stay unchanged: Browser, viewer, player and so on. In these case the file format is the only important information. But if files are going to be modified, the application becomes important to the user: It makes really a difference if I work on an image with MS paint or GIMP. Same with Writer or gedit on a TXT file. And because of the different features of the ODF supporting applications I'd like to know if a double click opens my ODT file in Writer or any other app. Therefore I'd liek to keep the gull (or any other OOo representing symbol) on the document icons. And I can imagine other applications switching easier to a general ODF icon set, if they can add their app symbol to these icons. And: do we really need to go with the OASIS yellow or violet ? On that yellow I don't like either black or white letters, and the violet color doesn't seem to work with black Letters. Why do you need black or white on the colored area? Why don't stay with the combination of yellow and violet? These colors are used for representing OASIS ODF since I got notice of ODF. They are quite unique on the desktop, and in combination they are eye-catching. I don't see a reason for OASIS to skip these colors (perhaps in favor of a blue that is quite similar to the OASIS blue group), but I didn't ask them yet. Best regards Bernhard - To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: art-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
[art] ODF icon design
Hi all, as you all know, OOo is trying to support the ODF file formats by developing ODF related desktop icons for document representation. The present approach contains: - add ODF on a rectangular area to a detailed (depending on the scale) graphical representation of the file type. - remove all application related information. - remove all color information except the intensive blue tone of the rectangle. The reasons for doing so have been told: - Primary colors are stronger than secondary, therefore blue has been used instead of the actual colors of the ODF community. - By reducing the other information (color and application information) ODF becomes more important. - They think that it would be reasonable not to tell anything about the application opening the ODF documents, because this would be irrelevant to the user. I can't follow these argumentation, therefore I'd like to show the relevant people that it is possible to - combine ODF and OOo information in one icon - keep color information in the icons - use the colors of the official ODF community logo: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/26771/ODF_220-03a.png (and perhaps the text and the form of the lower part) Jens already started some designs to show me that this is possible. Does anybody of you is interested to join this effort? Best regards Bernhard - To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: art-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [art] ODF icon design
2009/11/29 Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at Hi all, Hi Bernhard, You might also want to consider the ODF roundel used by Apache httpd and several other programs: http://opendocumentfellowship.com/icons http://www.catnip.co.uk/opendocument/icons/ Thanks! -- Peter Harlow Catnip Controls - Manage the world from your Web Browser http://www.catnip.co.uk/controls/
