Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-10-29 Thread steve-ayatana
On 28/10/10 12:49, frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you! That's why we want to move the desktop to human language. Words like application, service or process have nothing to do with writing a letter, watching a movie or listening to music. Certainly the words Service or Process may not

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-10-29 Thread Joern Konopka
The Fact that everyone and His Mom know what an App is can mostly be credited to the Fact that Apple created some of the most simple advertisements in History with strong visual emphasis on how to use the aforementioned Apps. Think of it this way, you know what's an App cause? There simply

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-10-29 Thread frederik.nn...@gmail.com
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 22:31, Joern Konopka cldx3...@googlemail.comwrote: The Fact that everyone and His Mom know what an App is can mostly be credited to the Fact that Apple created some of the most simple advertisements in History with strong visual emphasis on how to use the

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-10-29 Thread frederik.nn...@gmail.com
Hello Steve, welcome, sorry about my formulation sometimes, i was never much of a poet ;) On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:22, steve-ayat...@hst.me.uk wrote: On 28/10/10 12:49, frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you! That's why we want to move the desktop to human language. It's a bit hard

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-10-28 Thread frederik.nn...@gmail.com
On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 15:46, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: People know what a web browser is. By far, most of them do not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEt0N3xu0Do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH5ZIXItkS8

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-19 Thread Allan Caeg
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote: Me neither :-( For a while, I thought a windicator would work, but I can't think of a relevant status that covers the use cases of the menu other than a tools icon, which isn't status at all. Functionally, I

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-19 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
On 19/08/10 10:48, Allan Caeg wrote: That could work for Unity (though I'm not very familiar with it), but we also have to think about other platforms. Got to think about something that will work upstream (GNOME). Ah, you touch on my sensitivities! From our perspective, Unity is upstream,

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-19 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
On 19/08/10 12:54, Allan Caeg wrote: Oops! That's not what I meant, good sir! I just wanted to make sure that we're not forgetting other platforms. I love what you and the rest of the Ubuntu team do. We sometimes just have miscommunications because of semantics and stuff. Perhaps, what I

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-09 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Vishnoo wrote on 07/08/10 19:59: On Sat, 2010-08-07 at 14:46 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas ... In Ubuntu 9.10 and later, the application icon does not appear in the window title bar, partly for the same reason (it's not relevant to user goals).

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-09 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ryan Peters wrote on 07/08/10 20:12: On 08/07/2010 08:46 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: ... In this scenario someone is using (for example) Calculator, Banshee, Empathy, Gmail, Amazon, CNN, Farmville, the Gundam AnimeSuki Forum, and Hulu

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-09 Thread Ryan Peters
On 08/09/2010 05:56 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ryan Peters wrote on 07/08/10 20:12: On 08/07/2010 08:46 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: ... In this scenario someone is using (for example) Calculator, Banshee, Empathy, Gmail, Amazon, CNN,

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-09 Thread Martin Owens
Ryan, On Mon, 2010-08-09 at 11:22 -0500, Ryan Peters wrote: While browsers might not be focused on branding, that branding is still there. My point, however, isn't the branding, but the fact that there is a brand. If we treated every web browser as web browser or every email client as

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-09 Thread Allan Caeg
Not showing the branding while the app is running may reduce cognitive load, just like what MPT said. However, there are issues with this. *Apps that are supposed to do the same things have differences that many people know or need to know.* Whenever I'm browsing, I have to know that it's Firefox,

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-07 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ryan Peters wrote on 06/08/10 17:15: On 08/06/2010 06:17 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: ... What sense does it make to have a menu that's labelled Calculator when doing a calculation, Banshee when you're playing music, and Empathy when you're

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-07 Thread Remco
On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 15:46, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: In this scenario someone is using (for example) Calculator, Banshee, Empathy, Gmail, Amazon, CNN, Farmville, the Gundam AnimeSuki Forum, and Hulu respectively. That they are using Firefox for 70% of these things does

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-07 Thread Vishnoo
On Sat, 2010-08-07 at 14:46 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: ... What sense does it make to have a menu that's labelled Calculator when doing a calculation, Banshee when you're playing music, and Empathy when you're chatting with friends -- but Firefox when you're writing e-mail,

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-07 Thread Ryan Peters
On 08/07/2010 08:46 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: ... Or to put it another way: The Gnome Shell application menu mimicks the Mac OS X application menu almost exactly. It may seem "shiny" or "familiar" to those designers who use a Mac, but it is

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-06 Thread Ryan Peters
On 08/06/2010 06:17 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ryan Peters wrote on 30/07/10 21:05: ... GNOME 3 comes out next year. With it comes many new technologies including the Application Menu, a message tray for

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-06 Thread Allan Caeg
Here's Alex Faaborg's view on Firefox menu on the toolbar and the menu that Ryan Peters suggested the app menu looks like it is exactly the type of control we are interested in having (both for our own use, and because we think it is a good direction for the general design of desktop

Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

2010-08-06 Thread Allan Caeg
To make things clearer, when he said the app menu looks like it is exactly the type of control we are interested in having (both for our own use, and because we think it is a good direction for the general design of desktop applications). he was referring to this