Hi Mitja
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 20:16, Mitja Pagon mitja.pa...@inueni.com wrote:
Still I fail to see what actual problem(s) windicators are meant solve or
in what way are they supposed to better UX. To me it seem like it's a
solution in of search of a problem to solve.
The initial note
A sound windicator in Banshee seems like an edge case to me, because
Banshee (a) already lives in the system sound indicator, and (b)
usually runs in the background. A better starting point might be to
consider something like a sound windicator in Totem, which doesn't
normally have an entry in
...@inueni.com
Cc: he...@owaislone.org, ayatana@lists.launchpad.net, Carl Simpson
cwd.simp...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 8:08:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Windicators
On 20/02/11 18:39, Mitja Pagon wrote:
Using the example of volume control mentioned below, am I the only one
I think we should provide a standard collapsing approach for things
which could be window indicators and which are commonly system
indicators too, like volume. When maximised, the window indicator is
embedded in the system indicator (so there's only one volume indicator,
and in there you find
...@owaislone.org, ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:57:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Windicators
I think we should provide a standard collapsing approach for things which
could be window indicators and which are commonly system indicators too, like
volume. When maximised
Annoyingly, this somehow ended up in a completely different thread due to
the horrors of human error. I'm reposting here.
Sticking with the examples of Banshee and volume, for the sake of argument,
we also recognise two sorts of window indicator:
a) A window indicator that stands alone as
On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Carl Simpson cwd.simp...@gmail.comwrote:
My concern is that the functionality of changing the volume of Banshee
moves about quite a bit. It does this in two ways:
1) It moves from place to place in the interface- namely between the panel
and the window
On 20/02/11 18:39, Mitja Pagon wrote:
Using the example of volume control mentioned below, am I the only one
who thinks windicators make little sense and are in fact bad UX.
No, of course you are not the only person, there's lots of dissent,
which is fine and stimulates discussion to get a
2011/1/4 Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com
When maximised, they go into the panel, on the right, left of any
app-indicators.
Can we can assume from this that per-application functions, such as volume
control and network status, wont be tenable uses of the windicator idea,
since this would
To clarify, I mean people tend to want that somewhere in the
front-and-centre interface; I'm aware that it's there in
gnome-volume-control.
2011/1/4 Carl Simpson cwd.simp...@gmail.com
2011/1/4 Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com
When maximised, they go into the panel, on the right, left of any
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Carl Simpson cwd.simp...@gmail.com wrote:
Can we can assume from this that per-application functions, such as volume
control and network status, wont be tenable uses of the windicator idea,
since this would result in duplicates (e.g., two volume controls) or
On 10/12/10 06:52, Shane Fagan wrote:
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 12:04 +0530, Owais Lone wrote:
Just wanted to check. Are Windicators targeted for Natty? How much
work has been done? What if I wanted to play with it a little?
No there was no talk about anything unless canonical have it going on
Hey Mark,
On the design of the windicators, how exactly do they fit? Im not really
getting a good image in my head about how they will be fitting in since
the area that they were supposed to be put into is going to be removed
for maximized windows.
--fagan
On Tue, 2011-01-04 at 00:41 +,
On 04/01/11 02:44, Shane Fagan wrote:
On the design of the windicators, how exactly do they fit? Im not really
getting a good image in my head about how they will be fitting in since
the area that they were supposed to be put into is going to be removed
for maximized windows.
When maximised,
On 30/06/10 14:15, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
I agree that the F-Spot example isn't status; I couldn't think of
anything appropriate for that. :-)
Does F-Spot not have an online / offline mode yet?
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On 18 June 2010 17:12, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
On 18/06/10 15:00, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
What happens if applications have more than 4 or 5 indicators?
We'll have to think about that :-)
Suggestions? Show the ones that most recently changed status?
I like how the Unity launcher solves the
On 24 June 2010 00:28, Apoorva Sharma appi2...@gmail.com wrote:
To get around these problems, I have come up with the following idea.
...
If this is implemented, then all the windicators could have copies of
them already in
the panel. For example, not only would rhythmbox have a
On Jul 7, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Diego Moya turi...@gmail.com wrote:
I think you've just described the rationale for the new Ubuntu panel menus
(Sound-, Network-, Me-menus). So what you're suggesting would be akin to
dismiss the windicator idea and have all windows notifications centralized in
should not
be broken if they did not exist. Let's not bring to the title bar
the same historical abuse of the notification area. :)
...
Good point. I've just added this.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators?action=diffrev2=20rev1=19
- --
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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Luke Benstead wrote on 17/06/10 20:20:
On 17 June 2010 15:58, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com
mailto:m...@canonical.com wrote:
...
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators
...
So... what's the status for the Gimp and F-spot mockups
On 18/06/10 19:42, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
Do you need to interact with them during alt-tab? Remember that your
screen is grabbed and you are busy finding windows, not tweaking them.
I think, if we're going to expose them, we should enable them to be
interactive in order to keep them faithful to
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 18/06/10 19:42, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
Do you need to interact with them during alt-tab? Remember that your
screen is grabbed and you are busy finding windows, not tweaking them.
I think, if we're going to expose them,
Hi,
NOTE: I tried to post this earlier, but I might not have been properly
subscribed, so this may or may not be a duplicate. -- Sorry, this is my
first time using a launchpad mailing list.
First of all, I really like the idea of window status indicators. It could
be an extremely useful feature.
On 18/06/10 15:00, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
Yes, perhaps show them at 1:1 scale as emblems on the window previews,
whatever the underlying window scale is for the reveal / alt-tab.
Mark
I would imagine with 24x24 icons you're going to have enough room for
about 4 of them on each window
We'll have to think about that :-)
Suggestions? Show the ones that most recently changed status?
I think that would introduce an unpredictability factor
that a lot of users wouldn't like.
Like it happens with the panel, I think we should consider
that even without the space problem there is
On 18 June 2010 16:25, Conscious User consciousu...@aol.com wrote:
We'll have to think about that :-)
Suggestions? Show the ones that most recently changed status?
I think that would introduce an unpredictability factor
that a lot of users wouldn't like.
Like it happens with the
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Luke Benstead kaz...@gmail.com wrote:
On 18 June 2010 16:25, Conscious User consciousu...@aol.com wrote:
We'll have to think about that :-)
Suggestions? Show the ones that most recently changed status?
I think that would introduce an unpredictability
erm...Windicator Priorities?
I personally prefer not having to choose when there's excess.
I'm in favor of not allowing excess, period.
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On 6/18/10, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 18/06/10 15:00, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
Yes, perhaps show them at 1:1 scale as emblems on the window previews,
whatever the underlying window scale is for the reveal / alt-tab.
Mark
I would imagine with 24x24 icons you're going to have
have now (mostly) finished a
specification for windicators, with a few examples.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators
- --
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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With help from Ted Gould of the DX team, I have now (mostly) finished a
specification for windicators, with a few examples.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators
Nice work.
I don't know if you simply consider this too obvious, but I think there
should be a guideline recommending
Window indicators, or windicators, are menus that appear at the trailing
end of a window’s title bar, or in the panel when the window is maximized.
Application developers can use windicators for reflecting status, and
allowing change of status, for the item or items presented in the window.
So far, these just seem to be menus, but with an optional icon instead
of text. So I have to ask: Why don't these belong in the regular
application menu bar?
guess
The windicators will also be able to use the icons
to show status, like panel indicators do.
/guess
/archives/333 Mark blogged about.
...
With help from Ted Gould of the DX team, I have now (mostly) finished a
specification for windicators, with a few examples.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators
Oh, nice! Thanks for doing this.
I am still confused about the exact scope of Windicators
/archives/333 Mark blogged about.
...
With help from Ted Gould of the DX team, I have now (mostly) finished a
specification for windicators, with a few examples.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators
Hmm... here is a quote from Mark in an earlier thread that I started:
For designing indicators
Hmm... here is a quote from Mark in an earlier thread that I started:
For designing indicators, ask yourself:
- what is the *status* I am conveying, and
- what options are there to manipulate that status?
If you don't have both, especially the status, don't use an indicator.
Use a
On Thu, 2010-06-17 at 11:13 -0700, Dylan McCall wrote:
(And a quick note about Evolution: 2.30 has evolution-express. Try
evolution --express from the command line. It's used in Meego and it
is awesome).
Express mode will be used in Maverick UNE (expectedly).[1]
El vie, 28-05-2010 a las 03:35 +0200, Frederik Nnaji escribió:
Hey there Oscar,
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 19:04, Oscar RdG oscar...@gmail.com wrote:
[1]
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators/DanielsWindicators?action=AttachFiledo=viewtarget=une_windicators_max.jpg
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 08:59, Oscar RdG oscar...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi!
That is Dani's mockup.
He put together on the panel the window controls, window title and window
menu at the same time.
I just wanted to point out that the original idea that Mark wrote about [1]
was to combine title
Hey there Oscar,
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 19:04, Oscar RdG oscar...@gmail.com wrote:
[1]
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators/DanielsWindicators?action=AttachFiledo=viewtarget=une_windicators_max.jpg
Please explain if you may.. : how does this mockup honor the planned
introduction
The mockups look awesome, excuse me if this is off-topic but I wanted to
comment on the windicators themselves.
I find the saved/unsaved windicator is confusing. Can someone describe the
projected behavior? My questions is this: if multiple documents are open
does it reflect the state of the
). On
the wiki you will find the new mockups and old ones.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators/DanielsWindicators#preview
(wiki)
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators/DanielsWindicators?action=AttachFiledo=viewtarget=une_windicators.jpg
(Light normal)
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana
controls + window menu].
That way, it will look cleaner.
Cheers
[1]
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators/DanielsWindicators?action=AttachFiledo=viewtarget=une_windicators_max.jpg
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 6:21 PM, daniel planas daniplana...@gmail.comwrote:
Hello again, I'm glad they liked
hello, some of you probably know my previous work, for others I am
unknown.
In any case I see that here there is much talk and nothing else, begin
to work seriously.
why I realizdo my first ideas that you can find on the wiki and the
first icons.
hello, some of you probably know my previous
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 16/05/10 08:17, Akshat Jain wrote:
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 09/05/10 07:45, akshat jain wrote:
But what will happen to Windicators when I minimize windows
You
On 17/05/10 09:50, David Siegel wrote:
Windicators would naturally appear in the alt-tab preview, as the
preview is a complete representation of the window including content
and window decorations. Are you thinking that we would make them
larger or somehow emphasize them?
Yes, perhaps show
the automatically-generated windicators (as window decorations) would be was
to small in the preview to be of any real use to most users. Maybe either
emlemized over the preview, or under the preview name? Perhaps the same
could be done when zoomed out in gnome-shell/gnome 3.
On May 17, 2010 5:59
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:59, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 17/05/10 09:50, David Siegel wrote:
Windicators would naturally appear in the alt-tab preview, as the
preview is a complete representation of the window including content
and window decorations. Are you thinking
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 01:47, Brandon Watkins bwa...@gmail.com wrote:
Interesting idea but I am not sure I grasp the real usability application
for it. What point exactly would seeing the application indicators large
have?
well, if you need to ask like that, check:
Somewhat contrived user story: suppose I have a whole bunch of applications
open, and all of them have some sort of audio playing, and all of them have
a volume level windicator. If one application starts playing some sound too
loud, I can see -- while I'm alt-tabbing -- what the respective sound
Fair point :D I was basing that on Shuttleworth's blog post about
windicators, an example given was a volume indicator.
Regardless, I feel like anything that is small, used to convey information
to the user, and tied to a window should be made larger when the window is
thumbnail-ized (better
But still, your point stands, and I agree. Another example is when working
with a large number of documents, getting a quick view to see if they are
all saved/synced with UbuntuOne or DB before logging off for the day.
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Alex Schoof alex.sch...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 09/05/10 07:45, akshat jain wrote:
But what will happen to Windicators when I minimize windows
You minimise them too. They are specifically status associated with that
window - so you won't miss them.
But
On 16/05/10 08:17, Akshat Jain wrote:
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com
mailto:m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 09/05/10 07:45, akshat jain wrote:
But what will happen to Windicators when I minimize windows
You minimise them too. They are specifically
On 16 May 2010 14:31, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 16/05/10 08:17, Akshat Jain wrote:
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 09/05/10 07:45, akshat jain wrote:
But what will happen to Windicators when I minimize windows
You minimise
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Sense Hofstede qe...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 16 May 2010 14:31, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 16/05/10 08:17, Akshat Jain wrote:
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com
wrote:
On 09/05/10 07:45, akshat jain wrote:
On 16 May 2010 16:21, Akshat Jain ssj6akshat1...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Sense Hofstede qe...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 16 May 2010 14:31, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 16/05/10 08:17, Akshat Jain wrote:
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Mark
On 16 May 2010 16:37, Akshat Jain ssj6akshat1...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Sense Hofstede qe...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 16 May 2010 16:21, Akshat Jain ssj6akshat1...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Sense Hofstede qe...@ubuntu.com
wrote:
On 16
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 08:54, Gavin Langdon puttabu...@gmail.com wrote:
If this were the case standard widgets could take priority if they're close
to the edge (although a good gui designer shouldn't have anything too close
to the edge anyway)
that part in brackets is what i'm interested in
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 00:11, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 04/05/10 09:03, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Benjamin Humphrey humphre...@gmail.com
wrote:
That's going to mess with user's expectations when they click on a
black space and start resizing a
On 16/05/10 16:51, Frederik Nnaji wrote:
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 00:11, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com
mailto:m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 04/05/10 09:03, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Benjamin Humphrey
humphre...@gmail.com mailto:humphre...@gmail.com
They are on the applications window border so when window is minimized they
go with it.
On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 11:45 AM, akshat jain ssj6akshat1...@gmail.comwrote:
But what will happen to Windicators when I minimize windows
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Mailing list:
On 06/05/10 18:16, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote:
On 4 May 2010 06:32, Diego Moya turi...@gmail.com wrote:
I have some more questions. What will happen with windicators if the
window controls are configured back to the right of the window? Will
they be swapped to the top left corner, or
On 05/03/2010 05:22 AM, Roth Robert wrote:
Otherwise I like the idea to use the right side of the titlebar to show
progress status, app status, share icons, etc.
Does this need to be on the right side of the title bar? It seems like
the location of the windicators could easily be themable,
Alle 08:30 del 6/5/2010, Scott Ritchie ha scritto:
On 05/03/2010 05:22 AM, Roth Robert wrote:
Otherwise I like the idea to use the right side of the titlebar to show
progress status, app status, share icons, etc.
Does this need to be on the right side of the title bar? It seems like
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Luke Morton luke.mor...@internode.on.netwrote:
Ambiance has a 1px border on the left and right--I don't think that's
enough to negate the case for a resize grip. As to your example, I find
resizing the terminal to be particularly frustrating.
The tiny border
Meant to send this to everyone but ended up sending it to Alex only:
Alex,
Ha! The theme I use, and the new default themes, certainly make it very hard
to resize windows. It appears there is only 1px x 1px grab area in Lucid.
There's a bug report somewhere that I was reading a few weeks ago...
Of course the simple fix is to just add in a few pixels of virtual,
invisible grab space around the corner of the window.
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Benjamin Humphrey humphre...@gmail.comwrote:
Meant to send this to everyone but ended up sending it to Alex only:
Alex,
Ha! The theme I
On 4 May 2010 05:48, Tyler Brainerd tylerbrain...@gmail.com wrote:
Actually I believe Mark gave some pretty clear reasons why. They want the
upper right to have a particular analogy, just like they want the upper
left. Right is for notifications, volume, brightness, and similar controls,
the
The Shut Down (etc.) menu is in the top-right. I understand it was put
there by analogy with the windows' close buttons. Should it now be in
the top-left?
lol, oh how right you are.
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Post to :
On 04/05/10 09:03, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Benjamin Humphrey humphre...@gmail.com
wrote:
Of course the simple fix is to just add in a few pixels of virtual,
invisible grab space around the corner of the window.
That's going to mess with user's
On 04/05/10 06:30, Luke Morton wrote:
Ambiance has a 1px border on the left and right--I don't think that's
enough to negate the case for a resize grip. As to your example, I
find resizing the terminal to be particularly frustrating.
Yes, this is a real problem in Ambiance and Radiance. I'd
On Tue, 2010-05-04 at 23:10 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
On 04/05/10 06:30, Luke Morton wrote:
Ambiance has a 1px border on the left and right--I don't think that's
enough to negate the case for a resize grip. As to your example, I
find resizing the terminal to be particularly
Hey,
In terms of the sound indicators id like if all the sound levels could
be controlled from the main sound indicator rather than having 2 sound
level controls. So when an application that uses sound starts playing,
another sound level bar is added with a description above it. Just an
idea but
On 03/05/10 13:22, Roth Robert wrote:
Another tiny detail I have a problem with... having progress status
indicators on the top right side and having the transient status
message appear on the bottom left side seems strange... do the status
messages have to appear on the bottom left? Until now
I did not consider the toolbar being there as a problem, just like there was
no problem with notifyOSD notifications appearing on the top of window
controls, because when the user hovers the mouse over the notification, it
becomes almost invisible, and it sits on top of the toolbar just for a few
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On 03/05/10 13:22, Roth Robert wrote:
Another tiny detail I have a problem with... having progress status
indicators on the top right side and having the transient status
message appear on the bottom left side seems
This depends from my point of view in the way 10.10 will integrate
Gnome-Shell ... because if it will be the main window manager, than only
mutter has to be supported as far as I know, because GS uses only mutter,
and there is currently no possibility of changing the window manager, and
there is
Which is sort of my point. It doesn't seem to me like Ubuntu is ever
planning on using gnome-shell, or they wouldn't be duplicating work on the
exact same areas of the desktop.
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Roth Robert evf...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree, I'm not a Gnome Shell fan either, I like
Rather then adding complexity, windicators
Indicators are icons, different applications have different icons.
http://meson.us/x/gnome/Nautilus.jpg --assume distro polish of course
All the app needs is an minimize icon/close icon. The rest of the
design is up to the app designer, who could
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Tyler Brainerd tylerbrain...@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree. I think it will only be good for the user if we have
consistent rules in the windicator area. Many mans can be moved their
for simplification of control. I'm thinking we'll see a huge explosion
of using
I disagree. I think it will only be good for the user if we have
consistent rules in the windicator area.
Okay, I think I see what your getting at. This is good, and consistent
rules are good at a programing level, however what you see directly
in-front of you is also art, and there are places
On 3 May 2010 12:06, Dylan McCall wrote:
On the other hand, it may be interesting to explore shading as a
complete replacement to minimizing, though there's probably something
else to be done. If my history is right, earlier GUIs did shading
instead of having a window list to minimize to, but
To treat UI as art before usability is the worst idea ever. good,
rational, usability focused design is target number one. Otherwise we
will end up with exactly what we used to have in the notification
area: chaos, dependent on the relative designs of app designers with
different ideas of what is
feel free to make up your mind. - my brain is in quantum flux.
rules, like having icons for everything, ex. nautilus
usability, like only having a home button on an iphone.
Sorry for destroying the thread! :D I will try to proceed more quietly.
btw. can't wait for ff4, it couldn't come soon
On 3 May 2010 22:14, Benjamin Humphrey wrote:
Interesting idea and I'll reserve final judgement till I see it in action,
or some clearer definitions of what would go into the windicator space. I
have a few thinking points, however:
I have some more questions. What will happen with windicators
Actually I believe Mark gave some pretty clear reasons why. They want the
upper right to have a particular analogy, just like they want the upper
left. Right is for notifications, volume, brightness, and similar controls,
the left is for menus, opening and closing, and other window management. It
On Tue, 2010-05-04 at 15:14 +1200, Benjamin Humphrey wrote:
- Would removing the status bar get rid of the grab handle for
resizing windows?
I believe it would. It should, however, still be possible for developers
to add resize handles using gtk.Window.begin_resize_drag.
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:09 AM, Luke Morton luke.mor...@internode.on.netwrote:
I believe it would. It should, however, still be possible for developers
to add resize handles using gtk.Window.begin_resize_drag.
Yes, but it's crazy to ask every developer to implement resizing. That's *
why* we
On Tue, 2010-05-04 at 01:13 -0400, Alex Launi wrote:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:09 AM, Luke Morton
luke.mor...@internode.on.net wrote:
I believe it would. It should, however, still be possible for
developers
to add resize handles using gtk.Window.begin_resize_drag.
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