Those involved in this discussion may enjoy Gabriel Fackre's defense of the
exclusivity and finality of Christianity: Gabriel Fackre, Claiming Jesus as
Savior in a Religiously Plural World, Journal for Christian Theological
Research 8 (2003) 1-17 (Andover Newton Theological School)
IMO, Baha'i soteriology is both particularist and inclusivist. That is because the particularity of the Baha'i primary sources admit the possibility of redemption for those who are not Baha'is. It is difficult to make a similar case, although some have tried, from the texts incorporated into the
Mark: IMO, Baha'i soteriology is both particularist and inclusivist. That is because the particularity of the Baha'i primary sources admit the possibility of redemption for those who are not Baha'is. It is difficult to make a similar case, although some have tried, from the texts incorporated
Dear
Gilberto in
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43297.html
I wrote
with great love, humility and in a spirit of dialogue
Gilberto Simpson
Point 3]
And in the Quran it says:
We did not leave anything out of this Book, then all will be gathered
before their Lord
Gilberto, Khazeh, Mark, Susan, et al.,
How long after the passing of the Prophet was the Authentic Holy Qur'an compiled?
Thanks.
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Hi, John,
At 09:22 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
Mark, Doesn't this also fit, from Baha'u'llah?
Thanks. I just finished writing a short paper on this subject, and I added it.
With regards, Mark A. Foster 15 Sites: http://markfoster.net
Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger -- Abbie Hoffman
It seems like something very different is being claimed by Bahais
though. I don't think I've ever heard a Muslim call Muhammad the
Revealor. God was the source of the revelation, it was conveyed by
Gabriel, and given to Muhammad. (Saaws) Muhammad was more a passive
recipient in the process. That
Hi, John,
At 09:33 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
Have you seen anyone do it from Islamic primary sources. I'd say it would be
easier because it is wholly authentic, and much longer.
Yes, especially in certain branches of Tasawwuf (Sufism). Gilberto has also
given some examples of texts which could
Hi, Khazeh,
At 09:40 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
This list is open and both of these scholars have great wisdom and ability.
I have made the archives public, but only subscribers can post to the list. If
they like, I can subscribe them in nomail mode.
With regards, Mark A. Foster 15 Sites:
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:50:10 -0800 (PST), John Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto, Khazeh, Mark, Susan, et al.,
How long after the passing of the Prophet was the Authentic Holy Qur'an
compiled?
From what I've read it was completely memorized and completely written
down on various
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:33:56 -0800 (PST), John Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mark: IMO, Baha'i soteriology is both particularist and inclusivist. That is
because the particularity of the Baha'i primary sources admit the
possibility of redemption for those who are not Baha'is. It is difficult to
In a message dated 1/9/2005 3:58:23 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Maybe it's just me, but from my perspective, humanity's
biggest problem isn't ignorance as much as
forgetfulness.
No offense, Gilberto, but is that your *personal* perspective. It looks
likethe
Gilberto,
At 09:51 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
It seems like something very different is being claimed by Bahais though.
Very much so. Here are my own understandings:
The Baha'i concept of divine Manifestation is probably closer to the mainline
christologies of Protestantism, Roman Catholicism,
Oops!
The Angel Gabriel does not refer to something apart from Muhammad. It was a
metaphor for His divine nature, His Holy Spirit, which enabled Him, Mirza
Husayn Ali (Baha'u'llah's human side), to deliver His message.
I forgot I was talking about Muhammad.
With regards, Mark A. Foster 15
Dear Khazeh:
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:40:51 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43297.html
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43305.html
Gilberto:
One issue which should be raised however, is that the Torah was
a revelation
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 11:18:52 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 09:51 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
It seems like something very different is being claimed by Bahais though.
Mark:
Very much so. Here are my own understandings:
The Baha'i concept of divine
Hi, Gilberto,
At 11:39 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
So since the Penteteuch clearly identifies the son as Isaac, then somehow
there is a discrepancy here unless you want to say that the revelation of God
given to Moses had a mistake in it.
Yes, but the issue may be a bit more complex:
In one of
Hi, Gilberto,
At 11:47 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
But if there is this real distinction between the Manifestation and the
Essence of God, what reason would there be to blur that distinction with
language which could lead to confusion?
What language?
Is it in order to make it easier for people
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 12:08:31 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
At 11:47 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
But if there is this real distinction between the Manifestation and the
Essence of God, what reason would there be to blur that distinction with
language which could
Based on Khazeh and Mark's comments, I've summarized them, in my view of course,below. No disrespect or exclusivism or superiority is intended.
-
"We did not leave anything out of this Book, then all will be gathered before their Lord [for judgement]. (Qur'an 6:38)"
This statement emphasizes
Hi, folks,
Someone asked me today to discuss further the philosophia perennis. I am not
sure if I can add anything to what I, Gilberto, and others have said, but I
will try.
The problem is that there is not just one perennial philosophy. Treating this
subject in an email message is difficult
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:32:14 -0800 (PST), John Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Based on Khazeh and Mark's comments, I've summarized them, in my view of
course, below. No disrespect or exclusivism or superiority is intended.
We did not leave anything out of this Book, then all will be gathered
At 01:25 PM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
When you say that the Manifestations can be called God.
Oh, okay. It is because Baha'u'llah has said that the Prophets can call
Themselves God:
Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: I am
God, He, verily, speaketh the truth, and
My beloved Gilberto:
You wrote today in
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43327.html
**Dear Khazeh, you are correct that those are the words I wrote. But you
chose to put the last part in all capital letters (I didn't). ...
You are obviously emphasizing a part of what I said in order to
And since in some ways I have been the one waving the Perennialist
flag in here, let me say that I would not call myself a card-carrying
Platonist. But I think that there are deep underlying and recurring
similarities in various religions. And that in general I wouldn't say
that a religion is
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:16:57 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 01:25 PM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
When you say that the Manifestations can be called God.
Oh, okay. It is because Baha'u'llah has said that the Prophets can call
Themselves God:
Sure I understand that. And what I'm
Gilberto,
At 02:30 PM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
Sure I understand that. And what I'm saying is that it seems like there is a
high potential for confusion.
And there are different viewpoints on this subject among Baha'is. However, I am
not sure that confusion is always a bad thing.
With regards,
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:18:33 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Khazeh:
I have begged you so many times to read the Writings of Baha'u'llah
directly as you have read the other Writings and I will end with the same.
I've looked at them (along with other writings)
In each
In a message dated 1/9/2005 3:08:29 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What great spiritual truth of one religion was missing from the previous ones?
This is much like saying: "So what in particular were you never told?"
Regards,
Scott
Gilberto,
Do you know anything about Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf ? He is the founder of ASMA -
the American Sufi Muslim Muslim Association:
http://www.asmasociety.org/
His publications are here:
http://www.asmasociety.org/shop/
I just saw him (15 minutes ago) as a member of a panel of religious
Gilberto,
At 03:07 PM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
But it seems like Bahais actually are saying that the Quran is incomplete in
the present day.
Each Revelation is regarded as complete for the duration of a particular
Dispensation, but I don't think we should then conclude that previous
Revelations
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 16:55:44 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
Do you know anything about Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf ?
I do now... lol...
Actually, I've seen his recent book in bookstores, but I honestly
haven't seen more than that.
Peace
Gilberto
He is the founder of
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 16:11:21 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/9/2005 3:08:29 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What great spiritual truth of one religion was missing from the previous
ones?
This is much like saying: So what in particular
"We did not leave anything out of this Book, then all will be gathered before their Lord [for judgement]. (Qur'an 6:38)" This statement emphasizes that the gathering of the Lord will come about after the revelation of this Book, the Qur'an. This verse is in complete harmony with Baha'i view,
In a message dated 1/9/2005 5:39:45 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
actually think that the different bags are going to mostly have thesame contents. I would be hard pressed to find something which is onebag and not in the others. The contents might be arranged
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:59:41 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/9/2005 5:39:45 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
actually think that the different bags are going to mostly have the
same contents. I would be hard pressed to find something which
In a message dated 1/9/2005 10:13:36 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I"m not sure what you mean. The Bahai faith claims to be a progressionor advancement over Islam and other religions, no? If so, wouldn'tthat imply that there is something in the Bahai bag, which isn't inthe
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:46:49 -0800 (PST), John Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We did not leave anything out of this Book, then all will be gathered
before their Lord [for judgement]. (Qur'an 6:38)
This statement emphasizes that the gathering of the Lord will come about
after the
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 23:14:50 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/9/2005 10:13:36 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Im not sure what you mean. The Bahai faith claims to be a progression
or advancement over Islam and other religions, no? If so,
In a message dated 1/9/2005 10:39:47 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Nevertheless its a sincere response. Instead of resorting toname-calling you should just say where the mistake is.
To call a response "obtuse" is not calling anyone a name, Gilberto. No offense was
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