Don wrote:
How about linking the return to
overview to the place that refers
to that particular paragraph in the
text instead of all the way back
to the beginning.
Thank you for your interest, and for your suggestion.
That will have to wait until I learn more about JavaScript, or until I
On 12/3/05, firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
at the risk of being myself, i am going to offer that the issue is not faith in Baha'u'llah, but rather love for Him.faith is blind. love is a deed.Actually, what I have in mind might be something that is called faith in the Book of God, the
I think that more faith in the Master's Will will also come through more faith
in Baha'u'llah.
I'm thinking that to promote more faith in the House of Justice, I want to
start by learning how to promote more faith in Baha'u'llah. Of course that's
been my goal all along, ever since I recognized
so step by step i pray that you be confirmed to help people see that in
accepting Baha'u'llah and His Faith and Institutions they are being faithful to
the One Religion of God.
Thank you. That is my hope too.
Jim
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
Contents of this post:
* Harrowing consequequences of unchecked sectarian hatreds
* Responsibility of religious leaders
* Need and hope for fundamental change
* Responsibility of Baha'is
* Need for deep understanding
* Responsibility to seek insights in the writings of Baha'u'llah
* Purpose of
In my view there is an enormous wealth of wonderful possibilities waiting to
come to life, in all our pursuits, including scholarship, that will come about
only when Baha'is in each field learn to have more faith in the Guidance of the
House of Justice, to carefully and thoughtfully study its
This is about some of my projects in my neighborhood. I'm using some new ideas
that are partly inspired by my study of One Common Faith.
One of my projects is learning to bring more of the spirit of God into
community life. One of my strategies is to bring more of the spirit of God into
my
Thanks, Don!
Jim
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by
Jeanne, I'm so glad! Thanks for telling me!
Jim
I appreciated how positive it was and am inspired by the concrete examples
that you shared. I had started to read ONE COMMON FAITH, but ended up putting
aside. You've inspired me to pick it up again with an aim to put some of your
ideas
I'm looking for a document which spelled out what laws and ordinances are
obligatory for Occident.
I know the Huquq and laws regarding devotional activities are now obligatory
for Occident so far, anyone knows which more?
Laws from the Kitab-i-Aqdas Not Yet Binding
1974-06-09
Susan, I'm sorry I trouble you so much.
This climber says with some dismay,
I must leave this mountain for another day.
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I want to put my posts in this thread in perspective.
I'm not convinced it's right to permanently exclude women from the Universal
House of Justice. I'm not convinced that it's wrong. I'm not worried about it.
In my view, the equality of women and men that we need to promote is not
whatever
I'm responding here to some of Susan M's posts in the thread UHJ membership
and women, because the issue for me, in responding to those posts, is not
women on the Universal House of Justice. The issue for me is the allegation
that the Universal House of Justice has been trying to censor and
Susan, I've thought some more about including what you've said, about the House
objecting to the presentation of the Women's Service paper and prohibiting its
publication, in my list of possible reasons for thinking that there are limits
to the kinds of ideas we can promote.
I'd like
Susan, when I said that I'm wondering if I should include what you said about
the House prohibiting discussion of women on the House of Justice, in my list
of writings that might limit what kinds of ideas we can promote, I was talking
about the list that I've posted in this thread. I've said
A minor point, but the above letter is dated 3 June 1997, not Dec. 10, 1992.
Thanks, Susan. I need to remember to verify all of my references.
Jim
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of those decisions available on request? If so, can I see them?
sincerely,
Jim Habegger
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Susan, thank you for your responses to my questions. That helps.
The information I provided you was to inform your own thinking on this matter.
Thank you.
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Dear brother Khazeh, greetings!
Here are my axioms:
- Baha'u'llah is always right.
What I am suggesting is that we each have a responsibility to promote the best
interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth, to the best of our
knowledge, understanding, and capacity, even if it means
Again, I am not trying to demonstrate that, or to provide evidence for it. I'm
only saying what I think, and asking for any reasons anyone sees, to disagree
with me.
Jim
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Sorry! I'm posting on the Web, and I keep forgetting that this is a mailing
list.
I'm suggesting that it pleases God for each of us to promote the best interests
of the peoples and kindreds of the earth, to the best of our knowledge,
understanding, and capacity, even if it means promoting
Khazeh, do you see any reason in the Constitution of the Universal House of
Justice, to disagree with my view that it pleases God for each of us to promote
the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth, to the best of our
knowledge, understanding, and capacity, even if it means
Has anyone here ever read the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys?
Jim
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I'm deeply grateful to everyone who has responded to me in this thread, and in
the threads Limits on promoting ideas and UHJ membership and women. Thank
you for your friendliness, helpfulness, patience, courtesy, and kindness. This
has been very enlightening for me.
Jim
Susan, I'm sorry I was impatient with you. Thank you for your patience with me.
Jim
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Iskandar, you are very welcome to jump in!
As you know, the whole theme of the Bayan, the Aqdas, and just about all of
our Sacred Writings is that acquiring or attaining the good pleasure of God is
the only thing that counts. Right?
Absolutely.
Jim
The denizens of this plane speak no words -- but they gallop their chargers.
They see but the inner reality of the Beloved. To them all words of sense are
meaningless, and senseless words are full of meaning. They cannot tell one limb
from another, one part from another. To them the mirage is
. . . it appears to be dancing on the edge
of a very slippery slope.
Do you mean that it would be dancing on the edge of a slippery slope for
someone to do that, or that I'm dancing on the edge of a slippery slope by
saying that it wouldn't be contrary to the Covenant, or both?
Jim
Thank you, Richard.
Jim
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Susan B said: For now, I have a book monograph that needs to be finished and
at the publisher in June, and a number of other large projects that need to be
completed before I can turn to new projects.
Take your time. I'm in no hurry. Like I said, it's not a burning issue for me.
Jim
Susan M, yes I'm aware of the circumstances behind the House's letter to the
NSA of New Zealand.
Jim
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Updated list of writings that might place limits on the *kinds* of ideas we can
promote:
Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom
whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the
Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead.
-
Then you know they objected to the presentation of the Service of Women paper
at the New Zealand ABS and prohibited it's publication?
I'm aware that you think so. I haven't seen anything in any message from any
Baha'i institution, that says so.
Here is how the letter to the NZ LSA begins:
We
Susan, I'll rephrase my question.
Are you pointing to that letter, and your conviction that the Universal House
of Justice prohibited the publication and distribution of that paper, as
reasons for thinking that the House has tried to repress the topic of women on
the Universal House of
Susan, are you saying that the Universal House of Justice made a formal
decision, in accordance with its constitution, to prohibit the publication of
that paper? If so, is there some way for me to verify that? If you say to write
and ask, I will.
Jim
Susan, I'm wondering if I should include this in my list of writings that might
limit what kinds of ideas we can promote. What do you think?
According to Susan Maneck, the Counsellors, the ABMs, those serving on the
Executive Committee of the ABS and Tony Lee said that the Universal House
At 0:01 + 5/26/05, Jim Habegger wrote:
I'm saying that if that's what she thinks, even
though you and I agree she's wrong, it would not
be contrary to Baha'u'llah's purposes and
prescriptions for her to try to find people
whose ideas the members of the Universal House
of Justice might
Limits on promoting ideas
http://list.jccc.net:8080/read/messages?id=119783
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Dear Susan B.,
I'm glad to know that you found encouragement in my posts. Thank you for
telling me.
In case there was any misunderstanding, I used the topic of women on the
Universal House of Justice, as an example in my discussion of limits to
promoting ideas, because I thought it would be a
http://bahai-library.com/forum3/
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Jim said: I think we all have a God-given responsibility to promote whatever
we see as being in the best interests of all people, and I don't think an
appearance of contradicting the Universal House of Justice relieves anyone of
that responsibility.
Susan said: Are we talking about 'an
Susan said: When you raised this issue on TRB you listed among the actions
which you thought acceptable, taking a complaint regarding the exclusion of
women from the Universal House of Justice to the United Nations. Perhaps Brent
or some others might commnent as to whether such action would be
Susan, I think I understand. I had an idea that you were reading promote that
way, and I'm glad to have confirmation of that.
It might help if I give more concrete examples of what I think may or may not
be in accordance with Baha'u'llah's prescriptions, in discussing our views.
The first
Again, using the inclusion of women on the Universal House of Justice as an
example, I think the following would *not* be contrary to Baha'u'llah's
purposes and prescriptions:
- Discussing it with other Baha'is, online or offline, to get ideas about how
to make a better case for it.
-
But here you are talking about 'teaching' these ideas which does strike me as
a form of promotion, no matter how well it is done.
Exactly. That's why I've been using the word promote, when I raise this
question.
Jim
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More examples:
- Imagine someone who disagrees with the reasoning of the Universal House of
Justice about excluding women from its membership, and thinks that the real
reason is simply sexism, and that the members haven't really given the idea a
fair chance. Imagine that one way she sees for
Susan, when I said to imagine someone who disagrees with the reasoning of the
Universal House of Justice about excluding women from its membership, and
thinks that the real reason is simply sexism, and that the members haven't
really given the idea a fair chance, I didn't mean that I thought it
Vaughn, that makes very good sense to me. I've never thought of it quite that
way before. Thank you!
Jim
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Since you quote from the letter written in regards to Michael McKenny's
removal from the rolls, what do you think was unacceptable about the *manner*
in which he was expressing his views?
He continued a series of open Internet postings in which he challenged the
authority of Bah institutions
Thank you, Vaughn.
Have you ever seen any decision by the Universal House of Justice, that forbids
us to promote the inclusion of Women on the Universal House of Justice, or a
Guardian after Shoghi Effendi, or any other view in particular?
Have you ever seen any decision by the Universal
Rather, I think, the Master is forbidding the promotion of
interpretations/opinions/ideas which are understood by the person himself to be
contrary to guidance from the Guardian or the House of Justice, because the
person has turned elsewhere for his light.
Vaughn, I see two ways of reading
Brent, thank you for that post. I was very glad to see that.
Jim
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Brent, thank you. That's very helpful. Well done. All of that is part of the
context in which I would want my ideas about this to be understood.
I've seen some reputed defenders of the Faith reinforcing the allegations of
detractors, that the Universal House of Justice has drawn boundaries
Don, that's perfect! Wonderful! Thank you!!!
Jim
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As I understand it, some people think the Covenant, as it is applied by the
Universal House of Justice, draws boundaries around the kinds of ideas we can
promote. In that view, it might be contrary to the Covenant, for example, to
promote the inclusion of women on the Universal House of
Thank you, Mark.
I am not aware of any limitations on the sorts of ideas which may be promoted.
I'm very glad to know that. Neither am I.
However, there are limitations on the means by which one may promote those
ideas.
A agree!
In other words, the House is thankfully not asking for Baha'is
Dick, I hope you will read what I posted to you in the other thread.
Jim
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Thank you, Mark.
When I say that I see sectarianism, personality cults, and mind control in the Baha'i
community, I don't mean to say that the community is sectarian, or that it's a cult,
or that it supports mind control, as a whole. I mean that I see sectarianism, and
personality cults, and
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