I don't treat the Bible as one book. This argument is specific to
certain commandments.
No the argument was in reference to your general position that unlike the
Qur'an there is alot of stuff in the Bible which isn't inspired and isn't
true.
And in any case, it is not clear why you are
On 10/28/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
I don't treat the Bible as one book. This argument is specific to
certain commandments.
Susan:
No the argument was in reference to your general position that
unlike the Qur'an there is alot of stuff in the Bible which isn't
Gilberto:
Ok. You and I shouldn't talk about this unless there is anything
significantly new to say.
No, I'm saying as list manager we are going to drop the entire thread.
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is sent by the Johnson County Community
You don't get the point, do you. Or, you just play dumb. No difference
anyhow.
One cannot prove a negative. If you want to challenge or disprove Scott's
point, all you need to do is to produce just one Jewish person from the
banu-Qurayzah tribe. That's all. If you cannot do that, then don't
Gilberto is willing to hypothesize that, perhaps, the bani-Qurayzah Jews
got absorbed into other communities (but he doesn't give you any evidence
for that, of course) but he doesn't accept the fact that the banu-Qurayzah
got indeed wiped off the face of the earth. This is good.
Iskandar
On
Hi, folks,
This thread has been closed.
Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. * Prof. of Sociology * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Johnson County Community College, Overland Park, Kansas
913-469-8500 x3376 * Fax 913-469-2589 * VOIP 347-983-0161
Mobile 913-768-4244 * http://MarkFoster.net * Office GEB 151D
The
Again, all you need to do to prove Scott wrong is to produce one (only
one) Jewish person from banu-Qurayzah. You haven't done that. You can't do
that. So, just keep quiet.
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
Look, we are dropping the thread folks.
Gilberto gets to have the last word. So he gets one more post and then we
shut the thread down. No one else should be posting on it at this point.
Let's get back to the list purpose which is Baha'i Studies not Baha'i-Muslim
apologetics.
The
Don't worry, Susan. He will always have the last word; just like his
Prophet is the last Prophet.
Warm regards,
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, Susan Maneck wrote:
Look, we are dropping the thread folks.
Gilberto gets to have the last word. So he gets one more post and then we
shut the
On 10/28/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't worry, Susan. He will always have the last word; just like his
Prophet is the last Prophet.
I think it is fine to drop the thread. I've basically said my peace
for a while.
Peace
Gilberto
The information contained in this
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They agreed on their own judge (who was not the
prophet) and the judge declared that the men should be killed. The
women and children were spared. It was certainly harsh. But it wasn't
genocide.
Dear Gilberto,
By 'spared' you mean the
Dear Gilberto,
Salaamun 'Alaikum...
I was reading the Qur'an today and I came across the story of Khidr and Musa(as) in Suratul Kahf. How would you explain theslaying of the young child? I would love to hear your thoughts.
MonderGilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Susan
On 10/27/05, Monder M Zbaeda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
Salaamun 'Alaikum...
I was reading the Qur'an today and I came across the story of Khidr and
Musa(as) in Suratul Kahf. How would you explain the slaying of the young
child? I would love to hear your thoughts.
Monder
I
In this particular context, the way you are trying to redefine things
is inappropriate to the larger issue. The issue of genocide came up in
the contex of talking about how moral decisions can be made based on
constant ethical values and principles. And in that context, I said
that the Biblical
Dear Gilberto,
Thank you for your insights and for the reminder of what the Qur'an says. I very much agree ith all that you said. Our insignificant minds can never unravel nor comprehend His Wisdom.
Your BrotherGilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Monder M Zbaeda <[EMAIL
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In this particular context, the way you are trying to redefine things
is inappropriate to the larger issue. The issue of genocide came up in
the contex of talking about how moral decisions can be made based on
constant ethical values and
Dear Gilberto,
I really like the fact that you've provided Karen Armstrong's explanation of the account of Banu Qurayzah; I have a suggestion, though. We've long passed the line of scholarly debate and are into the realm of what seems to me purely apologetics, and under these circumstances,
I'm suggesting that your basic thesis is wrong.
What do you think my thesis is?
Dear Gilberto,
That ethical principles and values have been constant over time.
If you aren't even sure if the
Israelites received those commands (which are clearly contained in
Deuteronomy) why argue
On 10/27/05, Benjamin La Framboise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
Aside from the fact that I think we're having a virtually
fruitless conversation here,
Yes.
Benjamin:
I just want to add that if we are going to
include explanations of history so that we can better understand the
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm suggesting that your basic thesis is wrong.
What do you think my thesis is?
Dear Gilberto,
That ethical principles and values have been constant over time.
ok.
If you aren't even sure if the
Israelites received those commands
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Convenience of the definition isn't really the issue. Whether you callit "genocide" or whether you call it "picking flowers" it is stillclear that a certain policy of killing certain nations is found in theJewish Torah, but that the same behavior is
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Convenience of the definition isn't really the issue. Whether you call
it genocide or whether you call it picking flowers it is still
clear that a certain policy of killing certain nations is found
I didn't argue that point 'tooth and nail.'
Not just you but other people in here as well.
Gilberto, you are a assuming there is a single position being argued here in
opposition to your own. That's not the case. We all have different
perspectives. I tend to take each point by itself, whether
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I didn't argue that point 'tooth and nail.'
Not just you but other people in here as well.
Gilberto, you are a assuming there is a single position being argued here in
opposition to your own.
No I realize that there are differences but
Qurayzah, duly noted, sorry for the error.
The treaty and its breaking provided grounds for the Muslims to make war with them, indeed.
The outcome of wiping out the males of mature age (old enough to be capable of bearing arms), then enslaving the women and children DID wipe them out ethnically
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Qurayzah, duly noted, sorry for the error.
The treaty and its breaking provided grounds for the Muslims to make war
with them, indeed.
Ok.
The outcome of wiping out the males of mature age (old enough to be capable
of bearing arms), then
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tribal warfare tends to be BRUTAL warfare. Whether it be Hebrews, Arab, Hutu, or whatever.How are you measuring brutality? There are larger casualties in modernwars. Humans have certainly gotten more efficient at killing. Warstoday still include
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The outcome of wiping out the males of mature age (old enough to be capable
of bearing arms), then enslaving the women and children DID wipe them out
ethnically just as completely as if the
Contradictory Information regarding the Events with Banu Qurayzah...
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=discussiondid=356
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
(e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Scott:
Tribal warfare tends to be BRUTAL warfare.
Whether it be Hebrews, Arab,
Hutu, or whatever.
Gilberto
How are you measuring brutality? There are larger casualties in modern
wars. Humans
On 10/27/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
I'm not going to pretend like I'm some scholarly expert. I've read
alot about religion but I don't want to set myself up as an authority.
And this might sound bad... but if you just now
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
On 10/27/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
Just produce someone from banu-Qurayzah and end the discussion. If you
can't, then just say nothing.
Scott is the one who claimed to know
I know one here in our campus.!
|wasn't wiped out. Wasn't wiped out, my foot. Just show me one
|person. One. Only one, and one person only.
|
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intended
There are no records of the numbers of European Jews who were exterminated in the Nazi camp system - worked to death, liquidated, dead of disease, dead of exposure, dead of brutality, dead by mischance - whatever.
How do we know that about six million died? Because when the war was over they did
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are no records of the numbers of European Jews who were exterminated
in the Nazi camp system - worked to death, liquidated, dead of disease, dead
of exposure, dead of brutality, dead by mischance - whatever.
There actually are. There
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: There are no records of the numbers of European Jews who were exterminated in the Nazi camp system - worked to death, liquidated, dead of disease, dead of exposure, dead of brutality, dead by
Im not
saying today's standards I'm talking about basic moral
considerations.
That's the point of dispute isn't it? Whether or not there is any such thing
as morality apart from the situation, place and time.
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Try to understand what I'm seeing in here. One person likened the
actions of Muhammad to Milosevic and you are accusing Muhammad of
genocide and comparing what was done to Banu Qurayzah (unfavorably)
with the Holocaust.
We are going around in circles Gilberto. The cycle runs something like this.
On 10/28/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Try to understand what I'm seeing in here. One person likened the
actions of Muhammad to Milosevic and you are accusing Muhammad of
genocide and comparing what was done to Banu Qurayzah (unfavorably)
with the Holocaust.
Susan:
We are going
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