Hi,
On 2023-01-17 20:07, Stan Sieler via cctalk wrote:
PLEASE TRIM THE DARN POST BEFORE REPLYING!
Yes, please, please, please!
The basic guideline is to quote *just enough* for the reader to
understand
what you're referring to. (Whether you quote below or above is another
subject
Does it have a floating point unit? You could mine bitcoins
C
On 1/17/2023 8:55 PM, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:52 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
That bwas a good price I think.
Yes, just imagine all the cool things you could do
I don't know about guessing, but ChatGPT can deadpan bullshit with the
best of them...
Prompt: /Describe the purpose of the DC LO signal in the DIGITAL PDP-11
Unibus/
Response:
/The DC LO signal, also known as the "Data Bus Low" signal, is a signal
that is used on the Unibus of the Digital
Hi,
PLEASE TRIM THE DARN POST BEFORE REPLYING!
For example, Bill's interesting post about needing space was 75 lines long
(#1)...
The first reply included the ENTIRE MESSAGE.
The second, from another very long time participant, was TWO !@#$%^& LINES
OF NEW CONTENT, with *TWO COPIES OF THE
On 1/17/23 19:14, Chris via cctalk wrote:
> My worst nightmare is some fiendish AI turning me into a really beautiful
> woman. Maybe with no arms. The Terminator future doesn't seem so bad by
> comparison.
>
My worst nightmare, which is sure to become reality is for it to become
a weapon, like
Correction: Hunt Valley, MD.
On Wed, 18 Jan 2023, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
No, it went to the System Source museum in Huntsville, MD.
On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
So it must have gone to the LSSM. It did not go to kennett classic.
Maybe
the "computer
No, it went to the System Source museum in Huntsville, MD.
On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
So it must have gone to the LSSM. It did not go to kennett classic. Maybe
the "computer church" in Parkesburg bought it.
BIll
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:35 PM Wayne S via cctalk
One might ask what is really worth preserving for millenia? None of my
"treasures" qualify I think.
Tom
On Wed, 18 Jan 2023, 9:05 am Paul Koning via cctalk,
wrote:
>
>
> > On Jan 17, 2023, at 3:34 PM, P Gebhardt via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Am Dienstag, 17. Januar
I don't know about guessing per se, but ChatGPT can deadpan bullshit
with the best of them...
Prompt: /Describe the purpose of the DC LO signal in the DIGITAL PDP-11
Unibus/
Response:
/The DC LO signal, also known as the "Data Bus Low" signal, is a signal
that is used on the Unibus of the
So it must have gone to the LSSM. It did not go to kennett classic. Maybe
the "computer church" in Parkesburg bought it.
BIll
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:35 PM Wayne S via cctalk
wrote:
> Another forum said a museum
> in Pa won it.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 17, 2023, at 17:55,
Another forum said a museum
in Pa won it.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 17:55, Tony Jones via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:52 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> That bwas a good price I think.
>>
>
> Yes, just imagine all the
Seeing the way we often behave, I'll speak for myself, making dumb mistakes
again and again, on some level we aren't much more then organic computers.
People overwhelmingly respond to the way they were programmed.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023, 10:10:43 PM EST, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
Does anyone know if that light bulb is still available? I’m not sure what
the response of that photo sensor is and that might rule out using a led
replacement. The fact that the bulb is almost certainty driven below the
rated voltage also complicates matters.
Marc
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:10
Fred, that outcome may actually be favorable to other possible fates AI could
intend for humanity. Harland Ellison wrote a short story well over 30 years
ago, describing the plight of 4 humans trapped inside a really big AI. The
machine had the ability to alter their dna, turning some of them
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:52 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> That bwas a good price I think.
>
Yes, just imagine all the cool things you could do with it :-)
I planned to bid but forgot...live pretty nearby too I could have picked
up. Oh well. Thatbwas a good price I think.
B
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 8:44 PM Zane Healy via cctalk
wrote:
> Yes, but they have to move it now!
>
> Zane
>
>
>
> > On Jan 17, 2023, at 5:09 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
>
Yes, but they have to move it now!
Zane
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 5:09 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> That LINC-8 sold for $2,150. A total bargain.
>
> https://hibid.com/lot/143159802/digital-equipment-corp-linc-eight-vintage
>
> Sellam
Unlike human students, once it has been informed that in C, etc., an
integer is signed by default, unless specified otherwise, it therefore
knows, and is not surprised at what happens when the int is incremented
past its range.
And, it probably understands that floating point numbers are an
That LINC-8 sold for $2,150. A total bargain.
https://hibid.com/lot/143159802/digital-equipment-corp-linc-eight-vintage
Sellam
On 2023-01-17 4:52 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 1/17/23 15:34, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
On 1/17/23 12:10, Chris via cctalk wrote:
It seems at this point that AI can only look shit up.
Which is all Watson could do when it "beat" humans at Jeopardy.
I don't doubt that
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 3:52 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 1/17/23 15:34, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > Science still has no real idea how we think. Or how we learn. Or much
> > else about the actual functioning of the brain. Until they do how can
>
On 1/17/23 18:52, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 1/17/23 15:34, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
On 1/17/23 12:10, Chris via cctalk wrote:
It seems at this point that AI can only look shit up.
Which is all Watson could do when it "beat" humans at Jeopardy.
I don't doubt that
On 1/17/23 15:34, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> On 1/17/23 12:10, Chris via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> It seems at this point that AI can only look shit up.
>
> Which is all Watson could do when it "beat" humans at Jeopardy.
>
>> I don't doubt that eventually these things will learn how to reason
On 1/17/23 12:10, Chris via cctalk wrote:
It seems at this point that AI can only look shit up.
Which is all Watson could do when it "beat" humans at Jeopardy.
I don't doubt that eventually these things will learn how to reason to whatever degree.
Science still has no real idea how we
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 5:09 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On 1/17/23 13:58, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> No, 844 drives use linear voice coils (linear motors), which seems to have
>> become the norm in the early 1970s. RK05 is another example. The term
>> "voice coil" is
On 1/17/23 13:58, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>
> No, 844 drives use linear voice coils (linear motors), which seems to have
> become the norm in the early 1970s. RK05 is another example. The term
> "voice coil" is used because they look like oversized versions of the coil
> that drives the
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 3:34 PM, P Gebhardt via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>
> Am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 15:54:54 MEZ hat Paul Koning via cctalk
> Folgendes geschrieben:
>
> ...
>> I have an RM03 pack somewhere. There probably are a few places left that
>> could read it. If it were an
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 3:45 PM, P Gebhardt via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Am Montag, 16. Januar 2023 um 17:57:46 MEZ hat Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> Folgendes geschrieben:
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
>> The 844 drives date from the early 70s. I worked for CDC on a military
>> project where these
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 10:17 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> ...
> I found a good general description of how the negative / positive relates
> to the PDP-8 and how peripherals fit into the picture.
> https://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~dwjones/pdp8/models/
>
> "The "negibus" or negative
On 1/17/23 12:35, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote:
> On 1/17/2023 12:21 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> Other than the media size (8" vs. 5.25"), what are the substantial
>> differences between WPS-8 and WPS-200? I'm mostly interested in the
>> software functionality.
>
> Are you actually
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 11:49 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Old stuff being preserved is often a matter of chance or luck rather than
> planning. Consider the Linear B clay tablets; those were preserved because
> they were accidentally baked, in the fires that were
Most grafitti is illegible to me. Still looks groovy. Who cares lol. On
Tuesday, January 17, 2023, 01:44:00 PM EST, Wayne S via cctalk
wrote:
Yeah, but can you read them?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 10:32, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023
Am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 01:20:22 MEZ hat Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Folgendes geschrieben:
On 1/16/23 12:40, Paul Koning wrote:
> On the CERL PLATO system at U of Illinois, around 1977, we had 20-ish
> 844-21 drives, and maybe a few 844-41 as well. Those were roughly the
> same as the
Am Montag, 16. Januar 2023 um 17:57:46 MEZ hat Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Folgendes geschrieben:
Hi Chuck,
>The 844 drives date from the early 70s. I worked for CDC on a military
>project where these were brought in to replace the 821s that were bid
>(yes, I know there's no information on
Am Montag, 16. Januar 2023 um 17:55:22 MEZ hat Jon Elson via cctalk
Folgendes geschrieben:
>Washington University had a magnetic media lab at one time,
>and got several semi loads of gear from an IBM lab. There
>were air bearing spindle tables and many racks of IBM
>circuitry based on
Am Montag, 16. Januar 2023 um 17:30:50 MEZ hat geneb via cctalk
Folgendes geschrieben:
>> I bought RK05 packs from Althea (sp?). I know they make diskettes too.
>> Trying to locate their web site so I must be spelling it wrong :-)
>
>I think you're referring to Athana.
Are there still
On 1/17/2023 12:21 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Other than the media size (8" vs. 5.25"), what are the substantial
differences between WPS-8 and WPS-200? I'm mostly interested in the
software functionality.
Are you actually asking about the WPS operating system? I don't know
many
Am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 15:54:54 MEZ hat Paul Koning via cctalk
Folgendes geschrieben:
>With hard drives you have to worry about mechanical faults, of course. I
>wonder if there are any long term storage issues with the bearings.
To my understanding, during the late 90s, the
Other than the media size (8" vs. 5.25"), what are the substantial
differences between WPS-8 and WPS-200? I'm mostly interested in the
software functionality.
Thanks,
Chuck
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:17 AM Bill Degnan wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 8:39 AM Bill Degnan wrote:
>
>> I am working to understand a TU56 in my possession that came from an
>> unknown environment. A connecting cable that came with it reads "PDP9" on
>> one end so I wondered if this is
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 2:07 PM, Chris via cctalk wrote:
>
> The ones that HAVE survived have kept worthwhile data integrity, granted.
>
> There we go. Just find a big mountain and start etching hex code. Or
> texhtonic plates? They're pretty big. But those damned earthquakes. On
>
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:20 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On a common metalanguage, there was an attempt to define such a thing, to
> allow software to be encoded in a way that could still be understood
> centuries from now. I have a paper about it somewhere but
On 2023-01-17 11:19 a.m., Paul Koning wrote:
Addressing modes barely existed in the 1950s. The PDP11 introduced a bunch of new ones
in 1970; the VAX a bunch more in 1978. "Since 1978" may be true, or at least
closer.
I would rather say, Memory barely existed in the 1950s.
And RISC came
The ones that HAVE survived have kept worthwhile data integrity, granted.
There we go. Just find a big mountain and start etching hex code. Or texhtonic
plates? They're pretty big. But those damned earthquakes. On Tuesday,
January 17, 2023, 01:32:32 PM EST, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 1:32 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 8:57 AM Chris via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>> The bottom line is you have to dispense with the fantasy that any media
>> will reliably keep data for really any length of time.
>
>
> I don't know, man.
Yeah, but can you read them?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 10:32, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 8:57 AM Chris via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>> The bottom line is you have to dispense with the fantasy that any media
>> will reliably keep data for really
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 8:57 AM Chris via cctalk
wrote:
> The bottom line is you have to dispense with the fantasy that any media
> will reliably keep data for really any length of time.
I don't know, man. Those stone walls with carvings in them have carried
data forward so far for
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 12:05 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>
> On 2023-01-16 10:45 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 1/16/23 19:42, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
It didn't fall for your trick question.
>> On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>>> In fact, feed it the
A take (mine) on the backup/archiving problem is that any medium that is used
for this purpose will eventually be rendered obsolete and possibly unusable
without going to extreme measures. My solution is to use whatever (economical)
hard disk device has the most capacity and store stuff there
I disagree. There are educated guesses. Wild guesses. And good guesses.
Chuck, don't know how learned you are in antiquities. But what would be your
answer to the question of a word that's synonymous with "teacher", but in
actualitu it's origin was the name of a literary character from 2500
On 2023-01-16 10:45 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On 1/16/23 19:42, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
It didn't fall for your trick question.
On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
In fact, feed it the object code for a reasonably compatible
architecture and ask it to
On 1/16/23 22:20, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>
> Yes, conversion of FORTRAN-IV to Fortran-77 should be easy.
> And considering that many systems ADD capoabilities, converting
> Fortran-77 to FORTRAN-IV might be a bit harder.
>
If the FORTRAN IV program conformed to the ANSI 66 specification, no
The bottom line is you have to dispense with the fantasy that any media will
reliably keep data for really any length of time. You must habe resundancy. You
could go the optical route, but even witj redundancy I don't recommend it. If
it's a small amount of data, maybe it's not such a bad
On 1/16/23 22:23, Chris via cctalk wrote:
> But which of those constitutes guessing? The computer would likely have
> beaten me to the answer by at least a second :). It's easy enough to look up,
> for a computer that is. But in that instance a computer wouldn't need to
> guess. And for me,
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 11:26 AM, Chris via cctalk wrote:
>
> Why wouldbyou need a whole server? Several 2.5" usb hard drives is all you
> meed.
But then you're dealing with stored media, and their shelf life. USB hard
drives may be ok so long as USB interfaces are available; if they are
At 08:54 AM 1/17/2023, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> To pick one example, I have an 1990s era Dell laptop that no longer passes
> POST (it gives a "beep code" failure that I haven't been able to cure). I
> would like to get whatever is on its hard disk, but that has a proprietary
> interface
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 10:58 AM, Kenneth Gober via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> ...
> There is another significant advantage to focusing on a backup strategy as
> opposed to an archival strategy -- I don't need to worry about tapes I made
> today being readable decades in the future (i.e. I don't need
Why wouldbyou need a whole server? Several 2.5" usb hard drives is all you
meed.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023, 10:59:08 AM EST, Kenneth Gober via cctalk
wrote:
On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 9:48 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
> > What about M-DISC DVDs and BluRays? Archival grade, not
On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 9:48 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
> > What about M-DISC DVDs and BluRays? Archival grade, not susceptible
> to magnetism or EMP. I think BluRay discs are made of a harder material
> than DVDs and don’t scratch as easily.
>
> I have had magnetic, AND optical media
On 1/17/2023 7:54 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
On Jan 16, 2023, at 9:48 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
What about M-DISC DVDs and BluRays? Archival grade, not susceptible
to magnetism or EMP. I think BluRay discs are made of a harder material than
DVDs and don’t scratch as
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 8:39 AM Bill Degnan wrote:
> I am working to understand a TU56 in my possession that came from an
> unknown environment. A connecting cable that came with it reads "PDP9" on
> one end so I wondered if this is actually associated with the TU56 or just
> sitting in the
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 16, 2023, at 6:48 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
>> wrote:
>>
>> I am interested in whatever media are more likely to still be readable in a
>> few decades.
>>
>> M-Disc claims 100 year life, but, obviously, no M-Disc
> On Jan 16, 2023, at 9:48 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>> What about M-DISC DVDs and BluRays? Archival grade, not susceptible
> to magnetism or EMP. I think BluRay discs are made of a harder material than
> DVDs and don’t scratch as easily.
>
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, Chris via
On Jan 17, 2023, at 2:02 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk
wrote:
>
> If you mean CHKDSK.EXE, it's broadly equivalent to Unix fsck plus a surface
> scan, and all fsck does is check and repair filesystem _metadata_. If the
> metadata is corrupt then that's a good sign that the data itself is also
>
> On Jan 16, 2023, at 6:48 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> I am interested in whatever media are more likely to still be readable in a
> few decades.
>
> M-Disc claims 100 year life, but, obviously, no M-Disc has lasted that long,
> and they are making promises based on what they
On Jan 16, 2023, at 5:11 PM, Chris via cctalk wrote:
>
> Been there. Seen it. It seems paper or tyvek is the way to store these things.
Thankfully most of the disks that I’ve imaged that don’t have jewel cases, are
in paper sleeves. Or even worse, a few have been loose. It looks like this
I am working to understand a TU56 in my possession that came from an
unknown environment. A connecting cable that came with it reads "PDP9" on
one end so I wondered if this is actually associated with the TU56 or just
sitting in the same box before the TU56 came to me. I have read here:
You have to make the best of what you have to work with needless to say. Are
you making arguments im favor of long term optical storage? It doesn't seem so,
but if you were, you lost me.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023, 05:32:33 AM EST, Peter Corlett via cctalk
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 17,
Newsprint from 1800s if stored properly is still white. No sense in getting
all expensive.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023, 07:59:12 AM EST, Diane Bruce via cctalk
wrote:
On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 06:48:11PM -0800, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> > What about M-DISC DVDs and BluRays?
On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 06:48:11PM -0800, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> > What about M-DISC DVDs and BluRays? Archival grade, not susceptible
> to magnetism or EMP. I think BluRay discs are made of a harder material than
> DVDs and don’t scratch as easily.
>
...
>
> I am interested in
Peter Corlett wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:16:18AM +, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:
> [...]
>> How about translating code from Z80 which has several registers to 6502
>> with rather fewer? That would seem to need some more intelligent thinking
>> on how to simulate the unavailable
> On Jan 17, 2023, at 04:52, Peter Coghlan via cctalk
>
> How about translating code from Z80 which has several registers to 6502 with
> rather fewer? That would seem to need some more intelligent thinking on
> how to simulate the unavailable registers without causing additional
>
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:16:18AM +, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> How about translating code from Z80 which has several registers to 6502
> with rather fewer? That would seem to need some more intelligent thinking
> on how to simulate the unavailable registers without causing
Fred Cisin wrote:
How well does it do on something "simple", and less esoteric, such as
translating FORTRAN to BASIC?
On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
How about FORTRAN to RPG?
Certainly more of a challenge!
But, a good way to quanitfy how far along they are getting on it.
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 05:42:55AM +, Chris via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> The only answer that anyone can provide is redundancy. Keep 2 or 3 copies
> of everything on seperate external drives. Every 3 to 5 years buy new
> drives and transfer the data to them. Or just run checkdisk twice a year
>
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