[cctalk] SMD/ESDI emulator progress report

Hi, I just wanted to provide a bit of a progress report on the SMD/ESDI emulator project. Now that I'm retired I have a bit more time to actually work on it.  Previously I was just doing a bunch of research and writing notes on the design.  I now have a solid design and I'm starting with

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

On 5/25/23 13:21, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On May 25, 2023, at 3:30 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 5/25/23 10:06, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote: The way SPARK works is that you have code and then can also provide proofs for the code. Proofs are you might expect are *hard

[cctalk] Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

On 5/25/23 10:00, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 5/25/23 08:58, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote: ADA and SPARK (a stripped down version of ADA) are used heavily in embedded that has to be "safety certified".  SPARK also allows the code to be "proven" (as in you can

[cctalk] Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

On 5/25/23 07:55, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 5/25/23 04:52, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: For the programming language, I stick with C, not C++, not Python and plain old makefiles--that's what the support libraries are written in. I don't use an IDE, lest I become reliant on one--a text

Re: DEC OSF/1 for i386?

I knew folks who worked on A/UX at Apple, but I don't have any details about it's internals. TTFN - Guy On 4/29/22 11:40, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: but I know at IBM we had 2 principle "ports" that we maintained (PPC Did this have anything to do with Apple's alleged "A/UX for

Re: DEC OSF/1 for i386?

I was at IBM when OSF (and subsequently OSF/1) was created and had a lot of discussions with OSF at that time.  At IBM I was working on the IBM Microkernel.  OSF/1 also used Mach (but a different source base) as the kernel.  The big effort was to keep the APIs and documentation "similar".  We

Re: idea for a universal disk interface

I'm using Zynq SOMs (System on a module) that will plug into a "base board" (with hilrose connectors).  It is the base board that will have the "personality" of the emulator.  The baseboard will be fairly simple (level shifters, a small bit of logic and the drive interface transceivers).  So

Re: idea for a universal disk interface

It's not really fast enough and you'll get into all sorts of complications once you start to think about trying to keep up with simulation rotations.  For example, if someone starts a read at half way through a rotation (e.g. after the index pulse) now you have to have logic/code that can

Re: idea for a universal disk interface

The problem is that you don't get the cylinder and head information in the same command (they are 2 different commands). So when you're doing a seek, you don't know which track(s) to prioritize.  That is why during a seek command I will transfer the entire cylinder so when the head command

Re: idea for a universal disk interface

I have proceeded as far as full block diagrams (still have to write all of the verilog) and basic SW architecture.  This is why I've had this discussion.  I've thought about this *a lot* and have gone through several iterations of what will or will not work given timing constraints. I have

Re: idea for a universal disk interface

I chose ESDI and SMD fundamentally because the interface is 100% digital (e.g. the data/clock separator is in the drive itself). So I don't need to do any oversampling. TTFN - Guy On 4/17/22 11:12, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Apr 17, 2022, at 1:28 PM, shad via cctalk wrote:

Re: idea for a universal disk interface

I think the issue is that you're thinking of somehow emulating the formatted data.  I'm working on just emulating the bit-stream as then it'll work with any controller and sector/track layout so I won't actually know what a sector really is (unless I do "hard sectoring" which some drives did

Re: idea for a universal disk interface

I'm looking at what the spec says.  ;-)  The read command delay from the head set command is 15us (so I was wrong) but still not a lot of time (that is after a head set, a read command must be at least 15us later). Since I'm not looking at formatted data rate (just handling the raw bit

Re: idea for a universal disk interface

I ran the numbers for Zynq FPGAs.  First of all for ESDI and SMD the head switch time is 1-2us (basically the time it takes for the clocks to re-lock on the new data). Two tracks isn't sufficient (which is the "other" track...you will be wrong). So I decided to go and have a full cylinder

Re: idea for a universal disk interface

I've had a similar project in the works for a while (mainly for ESDI and SMD). I think the main issue you're going to face is that what you need to do for something like ESDI or SMD (or any of the bit serial interfaces) is going to be radically different than something like IDE or SCSI.  This

Re: IBM 5110 (5100)

But it has APL (you can tell by the keyboard *and* the BASIC/APL switch). I can't say if the price is worth it for that...but having the APL ROS and the keytops has some value. TTFN - Guy On 3/17/22 17:56, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: On 2022-Mar-17, at 5:02 PM, D. Resor via cctalk

Re: VAX 780 on eBay

On 1/1/22 10:40 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Jan 1, 2022, at 1:12 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: This: https://www.ebay.com/itm/275084268137 The starting price is expensive, but probably not utterly unreasonable, given that: - the 780 was the first VAX, and thus

Re: RC11 controller (Was: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels)

On 12/10/21 6:21 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: On 12/9/2021 11:06 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote: On 12/9/21 8:15 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: One could perhaps emulate the RS64 data stream using a fast-enough micro, ala the MFM emulator. Why does everyone seem to want

Re: RC11 controller (Was: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels)

On 12/9/21 8:15 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: One could perhaps emulate the RS64 data stream using a fast-enough micro, ala the MFM emulator. Why does everyone seem to want to emulate HW like this with a micro when a reasonable FPGA implementation with some external FRAM would do the

Re: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?

of layers...right now it looks like it'll be 4 layers). On 12/6/21 3:50 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: For other boards without gold fingers where would you recommend and how expensive for omnibus size boards? On 12/6/2021 5:07 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote: On 12/6/21 2:45 PM, Mike Katz

Re: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?

On 12/6/21 2:45 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: If I may8 ask a question.  I have never had boards made before. How do I find a good board house that is reasonable and how do I specify the board especially for the PDP-8 Omnibus which should have gold fingers on the edge connectors?

Re: PDP-11/70 Boards

On 11/30/21 10:06 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: From the blog of someone who got a KB11-A working, you'll really need KM11 cards; dunno if Guy Steele still has those clones he was selling. I think you meant me.  Guy Steele is from Common LISP fame.  ;-) I do still have KM11 boards

Re: The precarious state of classic software and hardware preservation

In my case it's stuff that *I* didn't save and just tossed it because "Why would I ever want this anymore?".  I *really* regret tossing all of the source for stuff I wrote while I was at IBM. It was after all IBM's property (since I wrote it all as an IBM employee) and I doubt any of it

Re: Found my favorite DOS editor

On 9/28/21 3:41 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: "I've been using vi for about two years, mostly because I can't figure out how to exit it." :q you're welcome Or having to power cycle the machine to get out of EMACS. On Tue, 28 Sep 2021, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: To Exit EMACS: 

Re: Found my favorite DOS editor

On 9/28/21 3:02 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: On 9/28/2021 2:48 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: "I've been using vi for about two years, mostly because I can't figure out how to exit it." :q you're welcome Or having to power cycle the machine to get out of EMACS. Why would

Re: Multiprocessor Qbus PDP-11

There were a couple of other PDP-11 multiprocessors that I know of (and used): * C.MMP (eventually 16 PDP-11/40e's in an SMP configuration with a crosspoint switch accessing a large memory).  It ran a capability based OS called Hydra. * CM*  this was a cluster of LSI-11s (as I recall)

Re: Reading MT/ST Tapes

On 7/31/21 9:19 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 7/31/21 8:55 AM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: Since there was still a few 360s around when I started I also got to see the inside of a 1052 a few times, they are a really stripped down keyboardless selectric.  They used a function cam to

Re: Looking for VAX6000 items

On 7/14/21 9:50 AM, Paul Koning wrote: On Jul 14, 2021, at 12:33 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote: I've found 2 issues w.r.t. "rotary converters". * They *always* consume lots of power regardless of the actual load Really? That seems odd. A rotary converter is merely a t

Re: Looking for VAX6000 items

On 7/14/21 6:21 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Jul 13, 2021, at 11:34 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: When we got an 8530 at work in the early 90s (needed a machine with a Nautilus bus for specific hardware testing), it was definitely a 3-phase machine and since we were in an

Re: PDP-11/05 (was: PDP-11/05 microcode dump?)

On 6/15/21 12:16 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: On 6/15/21 2:02 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: Just to provide some real-world data, I used a pair of KM11's to debug my 11/05, see the picture here: http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/1105-debug.jpg

Re: Is this a new record?

I have a number of keyboards that folks of this ilk like (several Symbolics keyboards and a number of 3278/9 keyboards). Fortunately, they're all connected to respective machines. I did see that someone (on ebay) had taken an APL 3278 keyboard and converted it to USB!  Grr.  These people make

Re: Anyone know ancient versions of XLC?

On 4/15/21 9:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 16:00, Stefan Skoglund wrote: FRAME from that era was nice and fast. As in FrameMaker? I barely know it. Back in the '80s I was a total Aldus PageMaker fanboy. :-) IMHO one of the greatest GUI apps ever written. I've

Re: 80286 Protected Mode Test

On 3/15/21 7:23 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > From: Guy Sotomayor > the LOADALL instructions including all of it's warts (and its inability > to switch back from protected mode) Good to have that confirmed (for the 286; apparently it works in the 386). The 386 loadall

Re: 80286 Protected Mode Test

On 3/14/21 11:09 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote: On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 04:32:20PM +0100, Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk wrote: On Sun, 7 Mar 2021, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: The 286 can exit protected mode with the LOADALL instruction. [...] The existence of LOADALL (used for

Re: DEC RK11-C Disk Controller - on ebay...or is it?

It looks like it could be an RK11-C.  Are you possibly thinking of the RK11-D which fits in a BA11 chassis? TTFN - Guy On 2/8/21 2:53 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: If you search ebay for "DEC RK11-C Disk Controller", you'll find a listing of a backplane of flipchip cards, but it's not

Re: PDP-11/70 debugging advice

Did you check to make sure that power is wired correctly to the PEP-70/Hypercache?  They are typically installed in "empty" slots and don't have power (or anything else) routed to them.  They require some additional jumpers to be installed on the backplane so that they get power. On 1/31/21

Re: APL\360

On 1/30/21 9:52 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 1/29/21 10:03 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote: And unfortunately some industries it is prohibited.  Those industries *require* conformance to MISRA, CERT-C, ISO-26262 and others.  There is *no* choice since the code has to be audited

Re: APL\360

On 1/29/21 4:32 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: if ( !(myfile = fopen( filename, "r")) On Fri, 29 Jan 2021, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote: In a lot of industry standard coding practices (MISRA, CERT-C) that type of statement is prohibited and *will* result in an error being

Re: APL\360

In a lot of industry standard coding practices (MISRA, CERT-C) that type of statement is prohibited and *will* result in an error being reported by the checker/scanner. The if statement in your example has at least 2 errors from MISRA's perspective: * assignment within a conditional

Re: APL\360

On 1/29/21 12:21 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 1/29/2021 12:59 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Without OTHER changes in parsing arithmetic expressions, that may or may not be warranted, just replacing the '=' being used for assignment with an arrow ELIMINATED that particular confusion. 

Re: DEC backplane power connectors

Could you post the part numbers? Thanks. TTFN - Guy On 1/27/21 7:19 AM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: Thanks much. I think I found the mating plugs I need on the te.com site and digikey has them. --tom On 1/27/21 2:05 AM, Mattis Lind wrote: Den ons 27 jan. 2021 kl 06:59 skrev Tom Uban via

Re: Keyboard storage

No worries. I use Uline for all sorts of stuff and they generally deliver within 2 days (even out here in the boonies). I always find a use for any extras. ;-) I generally avoid USPS partly because they don't deliver to our house, so we have a P.O. Box (which means I have to talk to the shipper

Re: Keyboard storage

Try ULine (uline.com). They have a keyboard shipping box (p/n S-6496). They're only $2.70/ea but the minimum order is 25. :-( TTFN - Guy On Mon, 2020-12-21 at 22:17 -0800, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > I have a bunch of Sun keyboards that I need to store more > efficiently > and don't want

Re: Strange magtape anecdote

We had a similar problem when I was at IBM and we were developing a follow on to the PC/AT (it never shipped). We had a bunch of prototypes in the lab running tests with stepper HDDs (rather than voice coils) We kept having disk errors (failure to find track 0) when running tests. It took us a

Re: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?

On Mon, 2020-10-19 at 20:20 -0400, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > > won't work. Maybe I'll just drag out the 11/05 and get that working > first, it's got a nice front panel that doesn't lock up often :-) > > The 11/05 was the first 11 that I repaired and got working. You should note that the

Re: RL02 Disk and maybe pdp11 something at auction.

On Mon, 2020-10-19 at 17:45 -0400, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > From: Guy Sotomayor ggs at shiresoft.com > > > It looks like it's 11/84 from the badge on the front. > > In a 10-1/2" box. Seen them in the docs (forget the model number), > never seen > a real one. I had a

Re: RL02 Disk and maybe pdp11 something at auction.

On Mon, 2020-10-19 at 13:12 -0700, Wayne Sudol via cctalk wrote: > I spotted this for an auction from the FORMER OYSTER CREEK NUCLEAR > GENERATING STATION. > Looks like a pair of RL02 with a pdp something in the middle. I can't > make out what model it is from the photo. > Anyone know? > > >

Re: 11/84 print set

On Mon, 2020-10-19 at 11:22 -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, 19 Oct 2020, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > yes, I went ahead and got it even though I can't afford to > > paypal is my normal aek@bitsavers adr > > Done $50 > > Me too. TTFN - Guy

Re: Tutor needed for college student

I agree with the others: go look for other textbooks. There are also surprisingly good "webinar's" on various math related topics on YouTube (free), so it might be worthwhile to have him do a bit of searching. Oddly, I never had any discrete math courses in school...it was "old school EE" so

Re: 9 track tapes and block sizes

On Sat, 2020-10-03 at 08:33 -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > In particular, consider a government project where several hundred > millions of 1970s dollars were spent by the government, yet almost > nothing other than a few papers survives. Those involved with > intimate > knowledge are

Re: Small C ver 1.00 source?

Yes, I spent a good amount of my time at CMU in the late 70's re- writing the TOPS-10 version of that compiler with a new P-Code definition so that the target code could be run efficiently on small machines. I did the original work to target the PDP-11s on C.MMP. I still have the compiler

Re: Fixing an RK8E ....

On Fri, 2020-06-19 at 12:24 -0700, Robert Armstrong via cctech wrote: > It appears that my RK8E has a problem - it fails the diskless > control test > with > > .R DHRKAE.DG > SR= > > COMMAND REGISTER ERROR > PC:1160 GD: CM:0001 > DHRKAE FAILED PC:6726

Re: Living Computer Museum

On Wed, 2020-05-27 at 14:57 -0700, geneb wrote: > On Wed, 27 May 2020, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote: > > > I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they > > were > > suspending operations. It wasn't clear from the email what that > > actually

Living Computer Museum

I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were suspending operations. It wasn't clear from the email what that actually means. TTFN - Guy

Re: history is hard (was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC)

On Mon, 2020-05-25 at 14:13 -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > I hadn't thought about IBMCACHE.SYS in *years*. I wrote it in > > its entirety (there's even a patent that covers some of its > operation). > > I was in an AdTech (Advanced Technology) group at the time and > > was looking at

Re: history is hard (was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC)

On Mon, 2020-05-25 at 13:21 -0700, Ali wrote: > > >I hadn't thought about IBMCACHE.SYS in *years*. I wrote it in its > >entirety (there's even a patent that covers some of its operation). > I > >was in an AdTech (Advanced Technology) group at the time and was > >looking at how to make disk

Re: history is hard (was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC)

On Mon, 2020-05-25 at 20:28 +0200, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, 25 May 2020 at 20:22, Guy Sotomayor > wrote: > > > > I hadn't thought about IBMCACHE.SYS in *years*. I wrote it in its > > entirety (there's even a patent that covers some of its operation). > > I > > was in an AdTech

Re: history is hard (was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC)

On Mon, 2020-05-25 at 20:00 +0200, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, 25 May 2020 at 05:30, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > IBMs came with an installable driver called, I think, IBMCACHE.SYS. > This used extended RAM (above 1MB) as a hard disk cache, without XMS > or HIMEM.SYS or

Re: ISO: Diablo 30 heads

I chatted with him on FB earlier in the day and he's doing fine. TTFN - Guy On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 19:45 +, dwight via cctalk wrote: > I just emailed him an hour ago and he replied. I suspect he is fine. > Dwight > > > From: cctalk on behalf of Al Kossow >

Re: APL-11

I don't have an easy way to dump the ROMs at the moment. TTFN - Guy On Mon, 2020-03-30 at 13:49 -0600, Eric Smith wrote: > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 10:24 AM Guy Sotomayor via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I have a DEC Writer III with the APL character s

Re: APL-11

On Mon, 2020-03-30 at 11:07 -0400, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 10:58:46AM -0400, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Haven't given up on DIBOL. May try installing the RT-11 version > > and > > see if it runs. > > > > But now another language of interest has

Re: DIBOL and RPG for RSTS

On Sun, 2020-03-29 at 10:21 -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > On Mar 28, 2020, at 2:55 PM, dwight via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > There are a few reasons most don't like Forth: > > > > 1. no type checking ( suppose to save dumb programmers ) > > 2. Often, no

Re: HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing

Am I forgetting, but isn't BSD (4.3/4.4 as I recall) on the VAX? That seems more suitable for running on classic hardware than moving to something newer. Of course I got rid of all of my 11/780 and 11/785 systems (along with a smattering of VAXStations) years ago so I don't have any particular

Re: Mach

On Sun, 2020-01-05 at 15:21 -0800, Chris Hanson via cctalk wrote: > On Jan 5, 2020, at 2:30 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > It did seem for a while that a lot of things were based on Mach, > > but > > > > > >

Re: Taligent

On Sun, 2020-01-05 at 15:06 -0800, Chris Hanson via cctalk wrote: > On Jan 5, 2020, at 12:56 AM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Does Talingent Pink sound familiar? OS/2 was ported to powerPC, > > and so > > was Netware iirc. The field was quite busy with

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 64, Issue 3

On Sun, 2020-01-05 at 23:41 +0100, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 23:30, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Yes. We first started with Mach 3.0 build MK58. We did our final > > fork at MK68. We made some *significant* changes from what

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 64, Issue 3

On Sun, 2020-01-05 at 21:54 +0100, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 19:02, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk > wrote: > > I had been working on the IBM Microkernel (was one of the original 6 > people onthat team). It was eventually to form the basis of OS/2 for

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 64, Issue 3

On Sun, 2020-01-05 at 03:56 -0500, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote: > A lot of odd PPC work happened in a group a friend worked for > inAustin TX, but not sure if they did Netware work there.? There was > a lot ofOS2 work there as well, but that's off track a bit more. > thanksJim > I was lead

Re: Ordering parts onesie twosie

On Fri, 2020-01-03 at 09:22 -0400, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > On 2020-01-03 2:51 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 2020-01-02 9:58 p.m., Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote: > >Well, Canada Post stopped delivering to individual >houses years > ago. > I assume that rural delivery still

SMD disk specifications

Hi, I’ve been trying to find *detailed* specifications (mainly detailed signal timings) for the SMD disk interface but all I’ve found so far are the interface specifications for individual disks (CDC, Fujitsu, etc). I’ve looked in the usual places (bitsavers mostly) and haven’t found the spec

Identification of an HP minicomputer

Hi, I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I’m trying to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of configuration it might have). As far as I can tell, it’s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should hopefully get us *some* details). The “asset

CDC Cyber 180-960 available

Hi, It has come to my attention that a CDC Cyber 180-960 is available. Apparently this is from a supplier that was supporting Vandenburg AFB (California) with spares. Since Vendenburg is decommissioning it’s Cyber systems, the supplier wants to get rid of the spare machine that they have. I

Keyboard "enthusiasts"

…are the bane of my existence and should all rot in hell. Sorry, I just received an email from a “keyboard enthusiast” who was looking for various IBM 327x keyboards and wanted to know if I could help him and I needed to vent a little. I sent him a polite “no way in hell” response but I’m still

non-PC Floppy imaging

Hi, I now have a number of uCode diskettes for my IBM 4331. I would somehow like to image them so: a) I have backups in case the floppies themselves go bad b) be able to investigate their contents in case I have to “merge” the contents of multiple floppies to make a single good one These

Lisa Source Code

Hi, I don’t know if I missed the announcement on this list but I just saw this article: https://9to5mac.com/2017/12/27/apple-lisa-source-code-to-be-released/ It features quotes from our own Al Kassow. ;-) Way to go Al!!! TTFN - Guy