On Tue, July 15, 2014 11:01, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:50 PM, Keith Keller
kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us wrote:
1. See the systemd myths web page
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
In the interest of full disclosure, that page is written by
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 09:50:18PM -0700, Keith Keller wrote:
On 2014-07-15, Jonathan Billings billi...@negate.org wrote:
I've been using systemd ever since it was introduced in Fedora, and
the RHEL7 beta and CentOS7 final since it came out. I could tell you
about all the positive and
On 07/15/2014 09:38 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 09:50:18PM -0700, Keith Keller wrote:
I think this could be very useful, especially coming from someone who
was initially reluctant (as I and clearly others are).
Ok, I'll give some examples of my experiences. Warning:
On 15 Jul 2014 14:38, Jonathan Billings billi...@negate.org wrote:
4.) Debugging. Why is my unit not starting when I can start it from
the command line? Once I figured out journalctl it was a bit easier,
and typically it was SELinux, but no longer being able to just run
'bash -x
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:50 PM, Keith Keller
kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us wrote:
1. See the systemd myths web page
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
In the interest of full disclosure, that page is written by one of the
primary authors of systemd, so we
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 9:46 AM, James Hogarth james.hoga...@gmail.com wrote:
4.) Debugging. Why is my unit not starting when I can start it from
the command line? Once I figured out journalctl it was a bit easier,
and typically it was SELinux, but no longer being able to just run
'bash -x
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:01:34AM -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:50 PM, Keith Keller
kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us wrote:
1. See the systemd myths web page
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
In the interest of full disclosure, that
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Jonathan Billings billi...@negate.org wrote:
1. See the systemd myths web page
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
In the interest of full disclosure, that page is written by one of the
primary authors of systemd, so we shouldn't
Jonathan Billings wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 09:50:18PM -0700, Keith Keller wrote:
On 2014-07-15, Jonathan Billings billi...@negate.org wrote:
I've been using systemd ever since it was introduced in Fedora, and
the RHEL7 beta and CentOS7 final since it came out. I could tell you
On 07/15/2014 11:33 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
This one does bother me. I may not want to restart a production
instance of apache, when all I want it to do is reload the
configuration files, so that one site changes while the others are all
running happily as clams.
systemctl reload
Lamar Owen wrote:
On 07/15/2014 11:33 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
This one does bother me. I may not want to restart a production
instance of apache, when all I want it to do is reload the
configuration files, so that one site changes while the others are all
running happily as clams.
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:57:10AM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Lamar Owen wrote:
On 07/15/2014 11:33 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
This one does bother me. I may not want to restart a production
instance of apache, when all I want it to do is reload the
configuration files, so that one
On 07/15/2014 11:57 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Which contradicts the long post from the guy I was responding to, who
said it *only* did start, stop, restart
I figured it was a typo on his part, leaving out 'reload' like that, as
condrestart is also missing, and it's part of the standard
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:32:16AM -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Jonathan Billings billi...@negate.org
wrote:
I think the point is that systemd unit file syntax is significantly
simpler than shell syntax -- can we agree on that?
No. Everything you type on
...@centos.org] On Behalf Of
Jonathan Billings
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 12:01 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Cemtos 7 : Systemd alternatives ?
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:57:10AM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Lamar Owen wrote:
On 07/15/2014 11:33 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 10:32:16 -0500
Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Jonathan Billings
billi...@negate.org wrote:
It also is
significantly less-featureful than a shell programming language.
Yes, you're going to be using shell elsewhere, but in my
On Tue, 2014-07-15 at 10:32 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
spending
that time learning a new way to make your program start at boot will
just get you back to what you already could do on previous systems.
So what is the advantage of systemd? I accept we have to use it in C7,
but how is
On Tue, 2014-07-15 at 12:00 -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
What I meant is that it doesn't support extra action verbs, such as
'service httpd configtest'. I didn't mean to indicate that it ONLY
supported start, stop, restart and status.
So, in C7, how do I do a
system httpd configtest ?
On Tue, 2014-07-15 at 11:33 -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
This one does bother me. I may not want to restart a production instance
of apache, when all I want it to do is reload the configuration files, so
that one site changes while the others are all running happily as clams.
That's easy.
On 7/15/2014 10:00 AM, Always Learning wrote:
So what is the advantage of systemd? I accept we have to use it in C7,
but how is systemd going to improve the usability and reliability of
Centos ?
the big thing with any of these new service managers (I'm more familiar
with Solaris SMF than
On 2014-07-15, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
So, in C7, how do I do a
system httpd configtest ?
Am I going to lose that facility in C7?
apachectl configtest
(which is all the init script does anyway)
--keith
--
kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, reusing common code and knowledge is a good thing. But spending
a bit of time learning shell syntax will help you with pretty much
everything else you'll ever do on a unix-like system, where spending
that time
On 2014-07-15, Jonathan Billings billi...@negate.org wrote:
Ok, I'll give some examples of my experiences. Warning: long post.
Long, but really helpful. Thank you so much for putting your time in!
So, the things that have bothered me so far:
1.) The order of the 'service SERVICENAME
On Jul 15, 2014, at 4:16 PM, Keith Keller kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
wrote:
On 2014-07-15, Jonathan Billings billi...@negate.org wrote:
2.) Daemons under systemd don't really need to daemonize anymore. In
the past, to start up a daemon process, you'd need to fork (or
double-fork)
On Tue, 2014-07-15 at 10:25 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
the big thing with any of these new service managers (I'm more familiar
with Solaris SMF than systemd, but I believe it does the same thing), is
that it determines whether the service properly starts and tracks
service dependencies.
On Tue, 2014-07-15 at 11:00 -0700, Keith Keller wrote:
apachectl configtest
(which is all the init script does anyway)
Thanks. Its useful information.
--
Regards,
Paul.
England, EU.
Centos, Exim, Apache, Libre Office.
Linux is the future. Micro$oft is the past.
On 07/12/2014 11:08 AM, Lamar Owen wrote:
[I wasn't going to reply; but after thinking about it for quite a while,
there are a few points here that deserve just a bit of level-headed
attention.]
On 07/11/2014 10:53 AM, David G. Miller wrote:
Les Mikesell lesmikesell@... writes:
Or, if you
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 06:42 -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
Having been working with UNIX like systems since 1985
my biggest complaint with systemd is it so intrusive, it wants to be
everything which makes
it vulnerable to bugs and exploits - umm.. like Windoze!
My $.02
+ $ 10.00 :-)
--
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 06:42 -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
Having been working with UNIX like systems since 1985
my biggest complaint with systemd is it so intrusive, it wants to be
everything which makes
it vulnerable
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 07:18 -0500, William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 06:42 -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
Having been working with UNIX like systems since 1985
my biggest complaint with systemd is it so
William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 06:42 -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
Having been working with UNIX like systems since 1985
my biggest complaint with systemd is it so intrusive, it wants to be
everything which makes
Like OpenSSL ?
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 06:42 -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
Having been working with UNIX like systems since 1985
my biggest complaint
William Woods wrote:
Please stop top posting.
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net
wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 06:42 -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
Having been working with UNIX like systems
On Jul 14, 2014, at 10:19 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
Please stop top posting.
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net
wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 06:42 -0400, Steve
On 07/14/2014 11:26 AM, William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 10:19 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
Please stop top posting.
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Steve Clark scl...@netwolves.com wrote:
On 07/14/2014 11:26 AM, William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 10:19 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
Please stop top posting.
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:19 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
Please stop top posting.
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net
wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 06:42
On Jul 14, 2014, at 11:19 AM, Andrew Wyatt and...@fuduntu.org wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:19 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
Please stop top posting.
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always
Steve Clark wrote:
On 07/14/2014 11:26 AM, William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 10:19 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
Please stop top posting.
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Always Learning
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:38 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Steve Clark wrote:
On 07/14/2014 11:26 AM, William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 10:19 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
Please stop top posting.
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William
Andrew Wyatt wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:38 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Steve Clark wrote:
On 07/14/2014 11:26 AM, William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 10:19 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
Please stop top posting.
On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM,
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:52 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Andrew Wyatt wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:38 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Steve Clark wrote:
On 07/14/2014 11:26 AM, William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 10:19 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
William Woods wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Andrew Wyatt and...@fuduntu.org wrote:
Anyway, he also seems determined to see it all as black and white, rather
than looking at the *much* larger set of bugs and vulnerabilities that
Windows Server has had than any version of 'Nix. Sure, we have some... but
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Andrew Wyatt and...@fuduntu.org wrote:
Anyway, he also seems determined to see it all as black and white,
rather
than looking at the *much* larger set of bugs and vulnerabilities
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 11:19 -0500, Andrew Wyatt wrote:
Windows is no more or less secure than anything else out there.
Not with so many of Windoze world-wide users getting viruses all the
time. Centos is inherently more secure than Windoze.
--
Regards,
Paul.
England, EU.
Centos, Exim,
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 12:02 -0500, Andrew Wyatt wrote:
5.x is ancient and had its own set of flaws over its lifecycle.
1/3 of my servers use C 5.10, 2/3 use C 6.5. I use C 5.10 as my
individual development server and desktop.
C 5 works well for me.
Centos 5 Fan :-)
--
Regards,
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 12:02 -0500, Andrew Wyatt wrote:
5.x is ancient and had its own set of flaws over its lifecycle.
1/3 of my servers use C 5.10, 2/3 use C 6.5. I use C 5.10 as my
individual development
On Jul 14, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 12:02 -0500, Andrew Wyatt wrote:
5.x is ancient and had its own set of flaws over its lifecycle.
1/3 of my servers use C 5.10, 2/3 use C 6.5. I use C 5.10 as my
individual development
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:05 PM, William Woods wood...@gmail.com wrote:
1/3 of my servers use C 5.10, 2/3 use C 6.5. I use C 5.10 as my
individual development server and desktop.
C 5 works well for me.
Centos 5 Fan :-)
That is probably the most pointless comment you have made yet. Just
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 14:05 -0500, William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
C 5 works well for me.
Centos 5 Fan :-)
That is probably the most pointless comment you have made yet. Just because
you use something, and you are a fan
Always Learning wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 11:19 -0500, Andrew Wyatt wrote:
Windows is no more or less secure than anything else out there.
That is a false statement.
Not with so many of Windoze world-wide users getting viruses all the
time. Centos is inherently more secure than
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 11:19 -0500, Andrew Wyatt wrote:
Windows is no more or less secure than anything else out there.
Not with so many of Windoze world-wide users getting viruses all the
time. Centos is inherently
On 7/14/2014 12:48 PM, Always Learning wrote:
On the contrary it means a discerning user like me, never adverse to
complaining, is satisfied with the quality product C 5 undoubtedly is.
And satisfied sufficiently to use it instead of C6 and C7.
perhaps you should change your username from
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 14:05 -0500, William Woods wrote:
On Jul 14, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
C 5 works well for me.
Centos 5 Fan :-)
That is probably the most pointless
John R Pierce wrote:
On 7/14/2014 12:48 PM, Always Learning wrote:
On the contrary it means a discerning user like me, never adverse to
complaining, is satisfied with the quality product C 5 undoubtedly is.
And satisfied sufficiently to use it instead of C6 and C7.
perhaps you should change
On 7/14/2014 1:56 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
c) We have some production boxes that are 5.10.*YOU* go and tell managers
that we're going to take down their production boxes and upgrade them,
or were*you* personally going to assure that their budgets would be
upped to
John R Pierce wrote:
On 7/14/2014 1:56 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
c) We have some production boxes that are 5.10.*YOU* go and tell
managers that we're going to take down their production boxes
and upgrade them, or were*you* personally going to assure that
their budgets would
On 07/14/2014 02:03 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
On 7/14/2014 1:56 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
c) We have some production boxes that are 5.10.*YOU* go and tell managers
that we're going to take down their production boxes and upgrade them,
or were*you* personally going to assure
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 12:59 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
On 7/14/2014 12:48 PM, Always Learning wrote:
On the contrary it means a discerning user like me, never adverse to
complaining, is satisfied with the quality product C 5 undoubtedly is.
And satisfied sufficiently to use it instead of
On Mon, 2014-07-14 at 15:10 -0500, Andrew Wyatt wrote:
William didn't say that it was ancient, I did. If you think that 5.x is
ancient and had its own set of flaws over its lifecycle is derogatory,
it should come as no surprise to us that you've mixed up who you were
talking too.
I was
On 7/14/2014 2:30 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Do I? I'm just a sysadmin. Perhaps you should reread the above... or maybe
you're not familiar with working in a organizational environment.
I work in a corporation, supporting software development for
manufacturing. unsupported hardware/software
On 2014-07-07, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
Reading about systemd, it seems it is not well liked and reminiscent of
Microsoft's put everything into the Windows Registry (Win 95 onwards).
Has anyone here actually interacted with systemd, and if so could you
perhaps provide a writeup
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 03:52:10PM -0700, Keith Keller wrote:
On 2014-07-07, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
Reading about systemd, it seems it is not well liked and reminiscent of
Microsoft's put everything into the Windows Registry (Win 95 onwards).
Has anyone here actually
On 2014-07-15, Jonathan Billings billi...@negate.org wrote:
I've been using systemd ever since it was introduced in Fedora, and
the RHEL7 beta and CentOS7 final since it came out. I could tell you
about all the positive and negative experiences I've had.
I think this could be very useful,
[I wasn't going to reply; but after thinking about it for quite a while,
there are a few points here that deserve just a bit of level-headed
attention.]
On 07/11/2014 10:53 AM, David G. Miller wrote:
Les Mikesell lesmikesell@... writes:
Or, if you want things to respawn, the original init
Am 12.07.2014 um 17:08 schrieb Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu:
[I wasn't going to reply; but after thinking about it for quite a while,
there are a few points here that deserve just a bit of level-headed
attention.]
On 07/11/2014 10:53 AM, David G. Miller wrote:
Les Mikesell lesmikesell@...
Les Mikesell lesmikesell@... writes:
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 8:39 AM, David G. Miller dave@... wrote:
Generally speaking, if a service is broken to the point that it needs
something to automatically restart it I'd rather have it die
gracefully and not do surprising things until someone
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 10:33 +0530, Arun Khan wrote:
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 2:02 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
'Ey! What'cho got 'gainst punch cards?
and let's not forget the punched tapes :)
5 hole or 7 hole ?
--
Regards,
Paul.
England, EU.
Centos, Exim, Apache, Libre Office.
On 07/10/14 06:42, Always Learning wrote:
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 10:33 +0530, Arun Khan wrote:
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 2:02 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
'Ey! What'cho got 'gainst punch cards?
and let's not forget the punched tapes :)
5 hole or 7 hole ?
Sorry, but when I hear that, I
Les Mikesell lesmikesell@... writes:
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@... wrote:
Am 08.07.2014 17:58, schrieb Les Mikesell:
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn
dennisml@... wrote:
Also the switch from messy bash scripts to a declarative
On 07/10/2014 07:55 AM, mark wrote:
On 07/10/14 06:42, Always Learning wrote:
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 10:33 +0530, Arun Khan wrote:
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 2:02 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
'Ey! What'cho got 'gainst punch cards?
and let's not forget the punched tapes :)
5 hole or 7 hole ?
On 07/10/2014 09:39 AM, David G. Miller wrote:
Can't find the original post so replying and agreeing with Les. Have the
same ongoing problem with radvd. When My IPv6 tunnel provider burps, the
tunnel drops. The tunnel daemon usually reconnects but radvd stays down.
Solution:
*/12 * * * *
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
On 07/10/2014 07:55 AM, mark wrote:
On 07/10/14 06:42, Always Learning wrote:
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 10:33 +0530, Arun Khan wrote:
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 2:02 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
'Ey! What'cho got 'gainst punch cards?
and let's not forget the punched tapes
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 8:39 AM, David G. Miller d...@davenjudy.org wrote:
Generally speaking, if a service is broken to the point that it needs
something to automatically restart it I'd rather have it die
gracefully and not do surprising things until someone fixes it. But
then again,
On Tue, July 8, 2014 08:09, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
That presumes that your conservative attitude is the majority opinion
though. Systemd is one of the features that I have been looking forward
to in CentOS 7 because of the new capabilities it provides so while this
will surely drive
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 10:39 -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
mark we won't talk about the month I punch Addressograph plates
Addressograph plates? That is really ancient ! but they were
incredible useful in those days.
--
Regards,
Paul.
England, EU.
Centos, Exim, Apache,
Always Learning wrote:
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 10:39 -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
mark we won't talk about the month I punch Addressograph
plates
Addressograph plates? That is really ancient ! but they were
incredible useful in those days.
Yeah... but did you ever do it, or
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 12:47 -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Always Learning wrote:
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 10:39 -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
mark we won't talk about the month I punch Addressograph
plates
Addressograph plates? That is really ancient ! but they were
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 12:47 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Always Learning wrote:
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 10:39 -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
mark we won't talk about the month I punch Addressograph
plates
Addressograph plates? That is really ancient ! but they were
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 14:48 -0400, Mauricio Tavares wrote:
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 12:47 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Always Learning wrote:
On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 10:39 -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
mark we won't talk about the month I punch Addressograph
plates
On 07/08/14 21:45, Hal Wigoda wrote:
On Jul 8, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Always Learning cen...@u62.u22.net wrote:
On Tue, 2014-07-08 at 17:10 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
The read up on Grace Hopper and how she 'discovered' an unknown opcode
when a mispunch she glued in with nail polish. They
On 07/08/2014 01:19 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
And can you explain the difference between cloud and time-sharing
on a mainframe
Sure.
Cloud is much more dynamic, for better or for worse, than mainframes
in ye olde days. Cloud takes advantage on smart clients, and, well, is
a bit of a
On 07/08/2014 01:22 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
On 7/8/2014 9:25 AM, Lamar Owen wrote:
Physical servers can be told to skip certain parts of their POST,
especially the memory test. Memory tests are redundant with ECC.
but, you HAVE to zero ALL of memory with ECC to initialize it.
True enough;
On 07/08/2014 01:27 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu wrote:
Memory tests are redundant with ECC. (I
know; I have an older SuperMicro server here that passes memory testing
in POST but throws nearly continuous ECC errors in operation; it does
On 7/9/2014 8:34 AM, Lamar Owen wrote:
True enough; but this shouldn't take five minutes on a server with
multiple GB/s memory bandwidth. My Dell 6950's take a full five minutes
to POST, and that's ridiculous. There's eight cores; each core has
enough bandwidth to its local RAM (NUMA, of
On 07/08/2014 01:14 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu wrote:
But the answer is still the same. It's sort of the same as asking
that about getting a shiny new car with a different door size that
won't carry your old stuff without changes and
On 07/08/2014 09:27 PM, Always Learning wrote:
Everything, except the kernel, dependent on
Poettering's (employed by Red Hat) windows-style gigantic systemd.
Nothing can run without systemd's prior consent. One tiny bug in systemd
and everything crashes.
How is this any different from any
On 07/09/2014 01:00 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
i find the biggest part of server POST is all the storage and network
adapter bios's need to get in there, scan the storage busses,
enumerate raids, initialize intel boot agents, and so forth.
I've found that disabling all but the boot device's
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu wrote:
That was back when
people actually using the systems contributed their fixes directly.
I had a couple of 4+ year uptime runs on a system with RH7 + updates -
and only shut it down to move it once.
I remember the
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu wrote:
But an init that takes a bit more
care to its offspring, making sure they stay alive until such time as
they are needed to die (yuck again!) is a vast improvement over 'start
it and forget it.'
So your solution to the problems
Lamar Owen wrote:
On 07/09/2014 01:00 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
i find the biggest part of server POST is all the storage and network
adapter bios's need to get in there, scan the storage busses,
enumerate raids, initialize intel boot agents, and so forth.
I've found that disabling all but
On 07/09/2014 01:31 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
I'm not convinced that being open and receptive to changes from people
that aren't using and appear to not even like the existing, working
system is better than having a single community, all running the same
system because they already like it,
On 07/09/2014 01:38 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
Remind me why
Sure.
(a) you think that will be perfect,
Nothing is ever perfect, and I didn't use that word. I think it will
be, after some bug-wrangling, an improvement for many use cases, but not
all.
and (b) why you think an unpredictable
Lamar Owen wrote:
On 07/09/2014 01:38 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
snip
and (b) why you think an unpredictable daemon should be resurrected to
continue its unpredictable behavior.
I have had services that would reliably crash under certain
reproduceable and consistent circumstances that were
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu wrote:
On 07/09/2014 01:38 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
Remind me why
Sure.
(a) you think that will be perfect,
Nothing is ever perfect, and I didn't use that word. I think it will
be, after some bug-wrangling, an improvement for many
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 2:00 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Lamar Owen wrote:
On 07/09/2014 01:38 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
snip
and (b) why you think an unpredictable daemon should be resurrected to
continue its unpredictable behavior.
I have had services that would reliably crash under
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu wrote:
On 07/09/2014 01:31 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
I'm not convinced that being open and receptive to changes from people
that aren't using and appear to not even like the existing, working
system is better than having a single
It's old but there is still some rumours that freebsd will get Launchd
ported from OS X some day
On 07/07/2014 10:34 PM, Scott Robbins wrote:
On Tue, Jul 08, 2014 at 02:26:59AM +0100, Always Learning wrote:
On Mon, 2014-07-07 at 20:59 -0400, Scott Robbins wrote:
To the tune of YMCA
So
On 9.7.2014 22:00, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Lamar Owen wrote:
On 07/09/2014 01:38 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
snip
and (b) why you think an unpredictable daemon should be resurrected to
continue its unpredictable behavior.
I have had services that would reliably crash under certain
reproduceable
On 07/09/2014 03:03 PM, Mauricio Tavares wrote:
Since I missed most of the story, can you specify that it is ok for
this program to restart whenever it crashes, but this one you will
stop restarting after N crashes (N=0) and then report?
While I am certainly not an expert with systemd, it
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