Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-06 Thread Ross Walker
On Jan 5, 2012, at 6:34 PM, Johnny Hughes joh...@centos.org wrote: On 01/05/2012 02:51 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/5/2012 6:53 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote: On 01/04/2012 07:47 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/4/2012 1:59 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: [Distilling to the core matter; everything else

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-06 Thread email builder
1.) Attacker uses apache remote exploit (or other means) to obtain  your /etc/shadow file (not a remote shell, just GET the file without that fact being logged); I don't mean to thread-hijack, but I'm curious, if apache runs as its own non-root user and /etc/shadow is root-owned and

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-06 Thread Les Mikesell
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:52 PM, email builder emailbuilde...@yahoo.com wrote: Apache starts as root so it can open port 80.  Certain bugs might happen before it switched to a non-privileged user.  But, a more likely scenario would be to get the ability to run some arbitrary command through an

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-06 Thread Lamar Owen
On Jan 5, 2012, at 11:13 PM, email builder wrote: I don't mean to thread-hijack, but I'm curious, if apache runs as its own non-root user and /etc/shadow is root-owned and 0400, then how could any exploit of software not running as root ever have access to that file?? To listen on the default

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 01/04/2012 07:47 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/4/2012 1:59 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: [Distilling to the core matter; everything else is peripheral.] On Jan 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: To be absolutely clear: Do you, personally, believe there is more than a 1 in a million

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Les Mikesell
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: Yes, the totality of SELinux restrictions sounds like it could make a system more secure if it helps to guard against exploits in the services and the OS.  My point was that some individual restrictions may not make

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Lamar Owen
On Wednesday, January 04, 2012 08:47:47 PM Bennett Haselton wrote: Well yes, on average, password-authentication is going to be worse because it includes people in the sample who are using passwords like Patricia. Did they compare the break-in rate for systems with 12-char passwords vs.

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
On 01/05/2012 07:56 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: On Wednesday, January 04, 2012 08:47:47 PM Bennett Haselton wrote: Well yes, on average, password-authentication is going to be worse because it includes people in the sample who are using passwords like Patricia. Did they compare the break-in rate

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Lamar Owen
On Thursday, January 05, 2012 02:25:50 PM Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: What is sentiment about having dedicated box with only ssh, and then use that one to raise ssh tunnels to inside systems? So there is no exploits to be used, denyhosts in affect? Without being too specific, I already do

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
On 01/05/2012 08:58 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: 1.) Boot and run the bastion hosts from customized LiveCD or LiveDVD on real DVD-ROM read-only drives with no persistent storage (updating the LiveCD/DVD image periodically with updates and with additional authentication users/data as needed; DVD+RW

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/5/2012 6:53 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote: On 01/04/2012 07:47 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/4/2012 1:59 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: [Distilling to the core matter; everything else is peripheral.] On Jan 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: To be absolutely clear: Do you, personally,

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 01/05/2012 02:51 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/5/2012 6:53 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote: On 01/04/2012 07:47 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/4/2012 1:59 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: [Distilling to the core matter; everything else is peripheral.] On Jan 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote:

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread email builder
1.) Attacker uses apache remote exploit (or other means) to obtain your /etc/shadow file (not a remote shell, just GET the file without that fact being logged); I don't mean to thread-hijack, but I'm curious, if apache runs as its own non-root user and /etc/shadow is root-owned and 0400,

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Corey Henderson
On 1/5/2012 9:13 PM, email builder wrote: 1.) Attacker uses apache remote exploit (or other means) to obtain your /etc/shadow file (not a remote shell, just GET the file without that fact being logged); I don't mean to thread-hijack, but I'm curious, if apache runs as its own non-root

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-05 Thread Les Mikesell
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:13 PM, email builder emailbuilde...@yahoo.com wrote: 1.) Attacker uses apache remote exploit (or other means) to obtain  your /etc/shadow file (not a remote shell, just GET the file without that fact being logged); I don't mean to thread-hijack, but I'm curious, if

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-04 Thread Lamar Owen
On Tuesday, January 03, 2012 06:12:10 PM Bennett Haselton wrote: I'm not sure what their logic is for recommending 80. But 72 bits already means that any attack is so improbable that you'd *literally* have to be more worried about the sun going supernova. I'd be more worried about Eta

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-04 Thread Fajar Priyanto
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 1:32 AM, Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu wrote: root:LdP9cdON88yW root:u2x2bz root:6e51R12B3Wr0 root:nb0M4uHbI6M root:c3qLzdl2ojFB root:LX5ktj root:34KQ root:8kLKwwpPD root:Bl95X1nU root:3zSlRG73r17 root:fDb8 root:cAeM1KurR root:MXf3RX7 root:4jpk root:j00U3bG1VuA

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-04 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/4/2012 9:32 AM, Lamar Owen wrote: On Tuesday, January 03, 2012 06:12:10 PM Bennett Haselton wrote: I'm not sure what their logic is for recommending 80. But 72 bits already means that any attack is so improbable that you'd *literally* have to be more worried about the sun going

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-04 Thread Lamar Owen
[Distilling to the core matter; everything else is peripheral.] On Jan 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: To be absolutely clear: Do you, personally, believe there is more than a 1 in a million chance that the attacker who got into my machine, got it by brute-forcing the password?

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-04 Thread Markus Falb
On 4.1.2012 20:58, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/4/2012 9:32 AM, Lamar Owen wrote: The slow brute-forcers are at work, and are spreading. ... Well yes of course an attacker can try *particular* 12-character passwords, I never said they couldn't :) ... If you enforce use of ssh keys an

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-04 Thread Les Mikesell
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Markus Falb markus.f...@fasel.at wrote: To be absolutely clear: Do you, personally, believe there is more than a 1 in a million chance that the attacker who got into my machine, got it by brute-forcing the password? I think it was Lamar trying to point out

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-04 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
On 01/04/2012 10:59 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: [Distilling to the core matter; everything else is peripheral.] snip It is a safe assumption that there are httpd exploits in the wild, that are not known by the apache project, that specifically attempt to grab /etc/shadow and send to the attacker.

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-04 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/4/2012 1:59 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: [Distilling to the core matter; everything else is peripheral.] On Jan 4, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: To be absolutely clear: Do you, personally, believe there is more than a 1 in a million chance that the attacker who got into my machine,

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-04 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/4/2012 3:01 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote: On Wednesday 04 January 2012 11:58:07 Bennett Haselton wrote: If *everyone* used a 12-char random password, then the odds are that *none* of the 10 million machines attacking 100 million servers would hit on a success, not when there are 10^21

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/2/2012 11:04 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: Standard/non-standard isn't the point. The point is to control what an app can do even if some unexpected flaw lets it execute arbitrary code. What's the scenario where

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Nataraj
On 01/02/2012 10:48 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: True but I travel a lot and sometimes need to connect to the machines from subnets that I don't know about in advance. You could secure another system somewhere on the internet (could be a $20/month virtual host), leave no pointers to your

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Leonard den Ottolander
Hello Craig, On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 01:04 -0700, Craig White wrote: Very often, a single user with a weak password has his account cracked and then a hacker can get a copy of /etc/shadow and brute force the root password. This is incorrect. The whole reasoning behind /etc/shadow is to hide the

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Rudi Ahlers
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Leonard den Ottolander leon...@den.ottolander.nl wrote: Hello Craig, On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 01:04 -0700, Craig White wrote: Very often, a single user with a weak password has his account cracked and then a hacker can get a copy of /etc/shadow and brute force

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Benjamin Donnachie
On 3 January 2012 02:30, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: In other words, when SELinux causes a problem, it can take hours or days to find out that SELinux is the cause -- and even then you're not done, because you have to figure out a workaround if you want to fix the problem

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread John R Pierce
On 01/03/12 1:14 AM, Rudi Ahlers wrote: How does something like c99shell allow a local user (not root) to read the /etc/shadow file? presumably it uses a suid utility? i'm not familiar with c99shell, but thats classically how you elevate privileges. -- john r pierce

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/2/2012 11:01 PM, John R. Dennison wrote: On Mon, Jan 02, 2012 at 10:41:15PM -0800, Bennett Haselton wrote: Again, you don't have to take my word for it -- in the first 10 Google hits of pages with people posting about the problem I ran into, none of the people helping them, thought to

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Leonard den Ottolander
Hello Rudi, On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 11:14 +0200, Rudi Ahlers wrote: How does something like c99shell allow a local user (not root) to read the /etc/shadow file? I do not vouch for every app that is written to break good security practices. Try $ ls -l /etc/shadow If the tool you are using

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/3/2012 12:50 AM, Nataraj wrote: On 01/02/2012 10:48 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: True but I travel a lot and sometimes need to connect to the machines from subnets that I don't know about in advance. You could secure another system somewhere on the internet (could be a $20/month virtual

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Les Mikesell
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: But assuming the attacker is targeting my production system, suppose they find a vulnerability and obtain the ability to run commands as root on the system.  Then wouldn't their first action be to remove

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Marc Deop
On Tuesday 03 January 2012 07:57:47 Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: But assuming the attacker is targeting my production system, suppose they find a vulnerability and obtain the ability to run commands as root on the

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread m . roth
Having been on vacation, I'm coming in very late in this Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: snip OK but those are *users* who have their own passwords that they have chosen, presumably.  User-chosen passwords cannot be assumed

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Les Mikesell
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Marc Deop damnsh...@gmail.com wrote: Openvpn runs over UDP.  With the tls-auth option it won't respond to an unsigned packet.  So without the key you can't tell the difference between a listening openvpn or a firewall that drops packets silently.  That is, you

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Les Mikesell
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:48 AM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: You can also set up openvpn on the server and control ports like ssh to only be open to you if you are using an openvpn client to connect to the machine. True but I travel a lot and sometimes need to connect to

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Les Mikesell
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 3:14 AM, Rudi Ahlers r...@softdux.com wrote: Very often, a single user with a weak password has his account cracked and then a hacker can get a copy of /etc/shadow and brute force the root password. This is incorrect. The whole reasoning behind /etc/shadow is to hide

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
On 01/03/2012 04:47 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Having been on vacation, I'm coming in very late in this Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: snip OK but those are *users* who have their own passwords that they have chosen,

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread m . roth
Ljubomir, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: On 01/03/2012 04:47 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Having been on vacation, I'm coming in very late in this Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: snip OK but those are *users* who have their

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread m . roth
Whoops, sorry, thought this was offlist. mark, not reading closely enough. m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Ljubomir, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: On 01/03/2012 04:47 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Having been on vacation, I'm coming in very late in this Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3,

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/3/2012 11:36 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: On 01/03/2012 04:47 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Having been on vacation, I'm coming in very late in this Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: snip OK but those are *users* who

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Pete Travis
On Jan 3, 2012 12:36 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic off...@plnet.rs wrote: On 01/03/2012 04:47 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Having been on vacation, I'm coming in very late in this Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: snip OK

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread m . roth
Bennett Haselton wrote: mark wrote: snip 1. How will you generate truly random? Clicks on a Geiger counter? There is no such thing as a random number generator. snip That there are 10^21 possible random 12-character alphanumeric passwords -- making it secure against brute-forcing -- is a

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/3/2012 12:31 PM, Pete Travis wrote: On Jan 3, 2012 12:36 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevicoff...@plnet.rs wrote: On 01/03/2012 04:47 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Having been on vacation, I'm coming in very late in this Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Bennett

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/3/2012 12:32 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Bennett Haselton wrote: mark wrote: snip 1. How will you generate truly random? Clicks on a Geiger counter? There is no such thing as a random number generator. snip That there are 10^21 possible random 12-character alphanumeric passwords --

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Pete Travis
Here's the qualifying statement I made, in an attempt to preempt pedantic squabbles over my choice of arbitrary figures and oversimplified math: I am not a statistician, but Here is a statement intended to startle you into re-examining your position: Simplistic probability puts the odds of

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Lamar Owen
On Sunday, January 01, 2012 06:27:32 PM Bennett Haselton wrote: (I have already practically worn out my keyboard explaining the math behind why I think a 12-character alphanumeric password is secure enough :) ) Also see: https://lwn.net/Articles/369703/

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread m . roth
Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/3/2012 12:32 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Bennett Haselton wrote: mark wrote: snip 1. How will you generate truly random? Clicks on a Geiger counter? There is no such thing as a random number generator. snip To date, *nobody* on this thread has ever responded

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/3/2012 2:04 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: On Tuesday, January 03, 2012 03:24:34 PM Bennett Haselton wrote: That there are 10^21 possible random 12-character alphanumeric passwords -- making it secure against brute-forcing -- is a fact, not an opinion. To date, *nobody* on this thread has ever

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/3/2012 2:10 PM, Pete Travis wrote: Here's the qualifying statement I made, in an attempt to preempt pedantic squabbles over my choice of arbitrary figures and oversimplified math: I am not a statistician, but Here is a statement intended to startle you into re-examining your position:

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Les Mikesell
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: The critical thing to remember is that in key auth the authenticating key never leaves the client system, rather an encrypted 'nonce' is sent (the nonce is encrypted by the authenticating key), which only the

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/3/2012 2:13 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: On Sunday, January 01, 2012 06:27:32 PM Bennett Haselton wrote: (I have already practically worn out my keyboard explaining the math behind why I think a 12-character alphanumeric password is secure enough :) ) Also see: https://lwn.net/Articles/369703/

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/3/2012 4:21 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: The critical thing to remember is that in key auth the authenticating key never leaves the client system, rather an encrypted 'nonce' is sent (the nonce is encrypted by

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Les Mikesell
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: Of the compromised machines on the Internet, what proportion do you think were hacked via MITM-and-advanced-crypto, compared to exploits in the services? Proportions don't matter.  Unless you have something

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Fajar Priyanto
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote: Do you lock your doors or just leave them open because anyone who wants in can break a window anyway? Hi Benneth, In conclusion, IMHO, I think you are worried too much :) Don't be afraid just because it's a dangerous

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-03 Thread Drew
If attack A is 1,000 times more likely to work than attack B, you don't think it's more important to guard against attack A? It's not either/or here.  You could be the guy who gets hit by lightning. I'm not sure I entirely agree with you there Les. I'm not going to delve into the

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Craig White
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 14:23 -0800, Bennett Haselton wrote: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting company has also apparently been hacked. Since 2 of out of 3 machines hosted at that company have now been

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Bennett Haselton
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 14:23 -0800, Bennett Haselton wrote: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting company has also apparently been

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Bennett Haselton
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic off...@plnet.rs wrote: On 01/02/2012 02:50 AM, Bennett Haselton wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by an exploit from a web board which is apparently designed to pull outside traffic. Like Ljubomir said, it looks like a script that is

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 01/02/2012 02:04 AM, Craig White wrote: On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 14:23 -0800, Bennett Haselton wrote: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting company has also apparently been hacked. Since 2 of out of 3 machines

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Les Mikesell
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:03 AM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: I tried SELinux but it broke so much needed functionality on the server that it was not an option. Pretty much all of the stock programs work with SELinux, so this by itself implies that you are running 3rd party or

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Lorenzo Martínez Rodríguez
Hello, just if it helps, please find below these lines the steps I have used to analyze several suspicious machines in some customers, to check if they have been compromised or not: * Chrootkit rkhunter - To search for known trojans and common linux malware. * unhide

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/2/2012 9:18 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:03 AM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: I tried SELinux but it broke so much needed functionality on the server that it was not an option. Pretty much all of the stock programs work with SELinux, so this by

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/2/2012 9:18 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: There have been many, many vulnerabilities that permit local user privilege escalation to root (in the kernel, glibc, suid programs, etc.) and there are probably many we still don't know about. They often require writing to the filesystem. For example,

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
On 01/03/2012 03:30 AM, Bennett Haselton wrote: In other words, when SELinux causes a problem, it can take hours or days to find out that SELinux is the cause -- and even then you're not done, because you have to figure out a workaround if you want to fix the problem while keeping SELinux

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Harold Pritchett
On 1/2/2012 9:41 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: On 01/03/2012 03:30 AM, Bennett Haselton wrote: In other words, when SELinux causes a problem, it can take hours or days to find out that SELinux is the cause -- and even then you're not done, because you have to figure out a workaround if you

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Les Mikesell
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote:   What apps are those (i.e. the ones that SELinux would have broken) and if they are open source, have those projects updated the app or the underlying language(s)/libraries since you have? So here's a perfect

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread RILINDO FOSTER
On Jan 2, 2012, at 9:37 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/2/2012 9:18 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: There have been many, many vulnerabilities that permit local user privilege escalation to root (in the kernel, glibc, suid programs, etc.) and there are probably many we still don't know about. They

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread RILINDO FOSTER
On Jan 2, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/2/2012 9:18 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:03 AM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: I tried SELinux but it broke so much needed functionality on the server that it was not an option. Pretty much all of

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/2/2012 8:11 PM, RILINDO FOSTER wrote: On Jan 2, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On 1/2/2012 9:18 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:03 AM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: I tried SELinux but it broke so much needed functionality on the server

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/2/2012 7:48 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org wrote: What apps are those (i.e. the ones that SELinux would have broken) and if they are open source, have those projects updated the app or the underlying

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Les Mikesell
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: So I stand by the statement that SELinux is more likely to cause problems that are hard to figure out for people who aren't professional admins. Don't think anyone claims otherwise. Or that security is easy.

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Bennett Haselton
On 1/2/2012 7:29 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote: On 01/02/2012 02:04 AM, Craig White wrote: On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 14:23 -0800, Bennett Haselton wrote: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting company has also apparently

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread John R. Dennison
On Mon, Jan 02, 2012 at 10:41:15PM -0800, Bennett Haselton wrote: Again, you don't have to take my word for it -- in the first 10 Google hits of pages with people posting about the problem I ran into, none of the people helping them, thought to suggest SELinux as the cause of the problem.

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-02 Thread Les Mikesell
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: Standard/non-standard isn't the point. The point is to control what an app can do even if some unexpected flaw lets it execute arbitrary code. What's the scenario where this port restriction would make a

[CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Bennett Haselton
(Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting company has also apparently been hacked. Since 2 of out of 3 machines hosted at that company have now been hacked, but this hasn't happened to any of the other 37 dedicated

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Eero Volotinen
2012/1/2 Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting company has also apparently been hacked.  Since 2 of out of 3 machines hosted at that company have now been hacked, but

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Bennett Haselton
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Eero Volotinen eero.voloti...@iki.fiwrote: 2012/1/2 Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting company has also apparently been hacked.

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Rilindo Foster
On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting company has also apparently been hacked. Since 2 of out of 3 machines hosted at that company

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Les Mikesell
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: So, following people's suggestions, the machine is disconnected and hooked up to a KVM so I can still examine the files.  I've found this file: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1358 Oct 21 17:40 /home/file.pl which appears to

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
On 01/02/2012 12:27 AM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Eero Volotineneero.voloti...@iki.fiwrote: 2012/1/2 Bennett Haseltonbenn...@peacefire.org: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Bennett Haselton
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Rilindo Foster rili...@me.com wrote: On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second machine hosted at the same hosting company has also

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread RILINDO FOSTER
≈On Jan 1, 2012, at 8:24 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Rilindo Foster rili...@me.com wrote: On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: (Sorry, third time -- last one, promise, just giving it a subject line!) OK, a second

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Bennett Haselton
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 5:33 PM, RILINDO FOSTER rili...@me.com wrote: ≈On Jan 1, 2012, at 8:24 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Rilindo Foster rili...@me.com wrote: On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: (Sorry, third

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread RILINDO FOSTER
On Jan 1, 2012, at 8:50 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 5:33 PM, RILINDO FOSTER rili...@me.com wrote: ≈On Jan 1, 2012, at 8:24 PM, Bennett Haselton wrote: On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Rilindo Foster rili...@me.com wrote: On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Bennett

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Bennett Haselton
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Bennett Haselton benn...@peacefire.org wrote: So, following people's suggestions, the machine is disconnected and hooked up to a KVM so I can still examine the files. I've found

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Fajar Priyanto
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 9:33 AM, RILINDO FOSTER rili...@me.com wrote: The script in question is an exploit from a web board which is apparently designed to pull outside traffic. If you had SELinux, it would put httpd in its own context and by default, it will NOT allow connections from that

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
On 01/02/2012 02:50 AM, Bennett Haselton wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by an exploit from a web board which is apparently designed to pull outside traffic. Like Ljubomir said, it looks like a script that is used from machine X to DOS attack machine Y, if machine Y has the VBulletin

Re: [CentOS] an actual hacked machine, in a preserved state

2012-01-01 Thread Bennett Haselton
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Fajar Priyanto fajar...@arinet.org wrote: On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 9:33 AM, RILINDO FOSTER rili...@me.com wrote: The script in question is an exploit from a web board which is apparently designed to pull outside traffic. If you had SELinux, it would put httpd in