Re: [CF-metadata] ice_sheet/land_ice confusion

2018-10-09 Thread Karl Taylor
Thanks, Sophie, for your quick response.  Given your clarification, perhaps we might replace the description of ice_sheet, which currently reads: > ice_sheet: An area type of "ice sheet" indicates where ice sheets are > present. It includes both grounded ice sheets resting over bedrock

Re: [CF-metadata] Precipitation fractions for LS3MIP

2018-06-25 Thread Karl Taylor
:45 + From: Alison Pamment - UKRI STFC To: 'Karl Taylor' , Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC , "CF-metadata (cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu)" Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Precipitation fractions for LS3MIP Dear Martin, Jonathan, Karl, I have had another look at these two names a

Re: [CF-metadata] Standard names for RFMIP and GeoMIP

2018-06-13 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Alison and Martin, I haven't confirmed this with a web search, but I think albedo is generally reserved for the ratio of reflected solar radiation to incident solar radiation, considering the full spectrum.   It is a special case of "reflectance" restricted for use with the full spectrum

Re: [CF-metadata] Final 17 terms for CMIP6 LS3MIP.

2018-06-09 Thread Karl Taylor
be some "heat flux" of interest.   This would mean "added at a different temperature" may not be quite the right way to describe things.  Again not sure of this. best regards, Karl On 6/9/18 8:23 AM, Karl Taylor wrote: Hi Martin, Regarding heat_flux_into_snow_and_ice_on_

Re: [CF-metadata] Final 17 terms for CMIP6 LS3MIP.

2018-06-09 Thread Karl Taylor
to refer to the body of snow and ice on land which is the recipient of the heat here -- my last suggestion was "snow_and_ice_on_land", but that discussion is still open. Here, we could use "heat_flux_into_snow_and_ice_on_land_due_to_rainfall". (4) On reflection it may be clearer to say surface_upward_latent_heat_f

Re: [CF-metadata] Final 17 terms for CMIP6 LS3MIP.

2018-06-08 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Alison, Martin, and Jonathan, I just spent the last hour going over Alison's email and composed the following comments before seeing Martin's response and not being aware of Jonathan's comments on Tuesday.  I think most of my comments are still relevant. best regards, Karl Hi Alison

Re: [CF-metadata] Precipitation fractions for LS3MIP

2018-06-05 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, I think in common usage  "mass fraction" is the ratio of the mass of a particular species to the total mass of all species combined (e.g., the mass fraction of oxygen molecules in air).  For the variable considered here, the fraction refers to the ratio of the mass of as particular

Re: [CF-metadata] Precipitation fractions for LS3MIP

2018-06-01 Thread Karl Taylor
ase already used. Thus I end up with fraction_of_precipitation/rainfall/snowfall_amount_falling_onto_surface_snow and if that's still not quite transparent to parse, we could consider saying which_falls instead of falling. Neither is yet used in standard names. Best wishes Jonathan - Forwarde

Re: [CF-metadata] Precipitation fractions for LS3MIP

2018-05-31 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Martin, For  CMIP6, I think we define  precipitation = rainfall + snowfall . So do you want to collect "precipitation amount" or "rainfall amount" (in addition to "snowfall amount")?  You first mention "rainfall" below, but later propose a name for "precipitation". I also think it is a

Re: [CF-metadata] PMIP: standard names for the CMIP6 data request: tws, lighning flashes, wetland emissions, etc

2018-05-21 Thread Karl Taylor
05 +0000 From: Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC <martin.juc...@stfc.ac.uk> To: Karl Taylor <taylo...@llnl.gov>, Jonathan Gregory <j.m.greg...@reading.ac.uk>, "cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu" <cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu> CC: "yves.balkan...@lsce.ipsl.fr&

Re: [CF-metadata] Standard name and area type tables May update

2018-05-17 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, Thanks to everyone making the push to get all the names defined for CMIP6.  Alison, who must be working close to full time on this, deserves special recognition. best wishes, Karl On 5/17/18 7:41 AM, Alison Pamment - UKRI STFC wrote: Dear All, The standard name and area type

Re: [CF-metadata] PMIP: standard names for the CMIP6 data request: tws, lighning flashes, wetland emissions, etc

2018-05-17 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Alison, Martin, and all On the last point commented on by Martin: "4.3-4.7 Perturbed radiation calculations" I wonder if it is wise to assign a new name every time experiment conditions change.  I would limit names to quantities that are calculated independently by a physics model or

Re: [CF-metadata] PMIP Standard names: isotopic fluxes, mass contents and ratios.

2018-05-08 Thread Karl Taylor
Haven't been following this, but how about isotope_ratio_of_18O_to_16O_in_H2O (or H2O_molecules or water_molecules) best, Karl On 5/8/18 7:26 AM, Jonathan Gregory wrote: Dear Martin and Alison 10, 11: yes, this is the ratio of oxygen isotope atoms in the sea water molecules. It is true

Re: [CF-metadata] use of integral_wrt_depth_of_sea_water_practical_salinity

2018-04-16 Thread Karl Taylor
in our efforts to improve the situation. regards, Martin From: CF-metadata <cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of Sebastien Villaume <sebastien.villa...@ecmwf.int> Sent: 13 April 2018 17:30 To: Karl Taylor Cc: cf-metadata

Re: [CF-metadata] use of integral_wrt_depth_of_sea_water_practical_salinity

2018-04-13 Thread Karl Taylor
in favour of proposing new standard names by prefixing existing standard names with "ocean_" ! /Sébastien - Original Message - From: "Karl Taylor" <taylo...@llnl.gov> To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Sent: Wednesday, 11 April, 2018 18:

Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP6 data request: Precipitation of solid phase water

2018-04-13 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, Just to summarize some of what has been said before I think it is pretty clear that the solid phase can take several forms, as Martin points out.  I think the more subtle issue is that frozen water is not quite the same as solid water, if we take the strict definition of

Re: [CF-metadata] use of integral_wrt_depth_of_sea_water_practical_salinity

2018-04-11 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Sebastien, One option would be to include in cell_methods the following: cell_methods = "depth: mean (from surface to sea floor)" where depth is the standard name for the vertical coordinate, as provided for  in

Re: [CF-metadata] two standard names for same quantity?

2018-03-29 Thread Karl Taylor
Tel: +44 1235 778065 NCAS/Centre for Environmental Data ArchivalEmail: alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory R25, 2.22 Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K. -Original Message- From: Karl Taylor [mailto:taylo...@llnl.gov] Sent: 15 March 2018 23:58 To: P

Re: [CF-metadata] bounds variable & closed-open intervals

2018-03-27 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Erik, If the mean is a straightforward average of the 600 per-second samples (at 23:10:00, 23:10:01, 23:19:59), then this most accurately represents (according to the "Midpoint Rule") a mean for the period extending from 23:09:59.5 to 23:19:59.5, so those should be your bounds.

Re: [CF-metadata] bounds variable & closed-open intervals

2018-03-27 Thread Karl Taylor
the interval represented by the mean you are reporting (23:10:00 - 23:20:00), and you should estimate that mean using 601 samples, but weighting the first and last sample half as much as the others. best regards, Karl On 3/26/18 9:00 AM, Karl Taylor wrote: Dear Erik, I think one could argue

Re: [CF-metadata] bounds variable & closed-open intervals

2018-03-26 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Erik, I think one could argue that a "sample" taken *on* the second is most representative of an interval extending from half a second prior to the sample time and half a second following the sample time, so, for example, a sample at 1 sec represents the interval from 0.5 to 1.5

Re: [CF-metadata] two standard names for same quantity?

2018-03-15 Thread Karl Taylor
ers agree? Best wishes, Alison -- Alison Pamment Tel: +44 1235 778065 NCAS/Centre for Environmental Data ArchivalEmail: alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory R25, 2.22 Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K. -Original Message--

Re: [CF-metadata] New standard names for C4MIP

2018-03-12 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Chris and Alison, Thanks to both of you for all the good progress and considerable thought required to approve all these new names.  Thanks also to anyone else how contributed. Perhaps it will inspire others to engage in the processing of other proposed names. cheers, Karl On 3/12/18

[CF-metadata] two standard names for same quantity?

2018-02-02 Thread Karl Taylor
I noticed that "subsurface_litter_carbon_content" has the same "definition" as "surface_litter_carbon_content":  "Content" indicates a quantity per unit area. "Litter carbon" is dead plant material in or above the soil quantified as the mass of carbon which it contains. The surface called

Re: [CF-metadata] Standard_name proposal for volcanic ash and radioactive particles

2018-01-05 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear all, I think what Roy proposes is o.k., but I would worry if we allowed the use of "-" (hyphen) in standard_name.  I think that could be a mistake, even though I can't come up with a strong argument. (perhaps something about parsing being more difficult?  or reserving hyphens for

Re: [CF-metadata] grid cells with a varying number of cell bounds

2018-01-02 Thread Karl Taylor
with the CF-mandated attributes.  Does anyone disagree? thanks, Karl On 1/1/18 4:47 PM, Chris Barker wrote: On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Karl Taylor <taylo...@llnl.gov <mailto:taylo...@llnl.gov>> wrote: My sense is that no one violently opposes the use of missing_value

Re: [CF-metadata] grid cells with a varying number of cell bounds

2017-12-20 Thread Karl Taylor
ame number of vertices. Consistent with the last paragraph, I suggest that we should recommend the use of the existing convention for that case, rather than the simple geometries convention. Best wishes Jonathan - Forwarded message f

Re: [CF-metadata] typo Re: New standard names for OMIP: physics

2017-10-24 Thread Karl Taylor
Forgive me.  Since "X" and "Y" are just placeholders for the actual variables, it's obviously not important if they were exchanged from normal practice in the discussion.  The important thing is whatever follows "of" in the construct is the integrand. thanks, Ka

Re: [CF-metadata] typo Re: New standard names for OMIP: physics

2017-10-24 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, I think "X" should be the independent variable and "Y", the dependent variable (appearing as the integrand).  I would then prefer "integral_over_X_of_Y" or "integral_of_Y_over_X" (although I wouldn't object if the consensus is that "wrt" should replace "over").  [I don't like

Re: [CF-metadata] grid cells with a varying number of cell bounds

2017-09-08 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Jonathan and all, Regarding the options for representing polygon cells with varying number of sides (see below), I agree that the "simple geometries" proposal can indeed handle this case. ( It of course could also handle the case when all grid cells have the same number of sides.) I

[CF-metadata] grid cells with a varying number of cell bounds

2017-09-05 Thread Karl Taylor
HI all, Consider a grid consisting of both triangular and rectangular grid cells with n total grid cells. In this case the cell_bounds for longitude could be dimensioned (n, 4) because there are a maximum of 4 cell vertices. My question is, for the triangular grid cells do we *require* the

Re: [CF-metadata] Congratulations to Jonathan Gregory

2017-07-27 Thread Karl Taylor
not to mention your tremendous direct contributions to climate science. Congratulations and best wishes, Karl On 7/27/17 9:59 AM, V Balaji - NOAA Affiliate wrote: ... on being elected a Fellow of the AGU! CF would not be even a smidgen as useful in enabling so much science without your

Re: [CF-metadata] Sign convention of upwelling and downwelling fluxes

2017-07-21 Thread Karl Taylor
Yes I agree. Karl On 7/21/17 2:41 AM, Jonathan Gregory wrote: Dear Martin The words upwelling and downwelling were chosen specifically with the intention of indicating the sign convention! Upwelling means positive upwards, downwelling means positive downwards, in standard names. If that's not

Re: [CF-metadata] Standard name for direction of wind gust

2017-06-22 Thread Karl Taylor
that, for the moment, this discussion won't prevent the creation of this new standard_name ! Best regards Stéphane Tarot Le 21/06/2017 à 17:57, Karl Taylor a écrit : Hi all, I don't like "from_direction" as a construct (I know it's already accepted for "wind_from_direction&quo

Re: [CF-metadata] Standard name for direction of wind gust

2017-06-21 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, I don't like "from_direction" as a construct (I know it's already accepted for "wind_from_direction" and it is clearly explained in the notes but wouldn't "direction_of_wind_vector_tail" or "wind_vector_tail_direction or "tail_direction_of_wind_vector" be more obvious? (for the

Re: [CF-metadata] Standard names for CF trac ticket #143

2017-05-26 Thread Karl Taylor
level_for_geoid:m s-1 surface_geostrophic_northward_sea_water_velocity_assuming_sea_level_for_geoid:m s-1 surface_geostrophic_sea_water_x_velocity_assuming_sea_level_for_geoid:m s-1 surface_geostrophic_sea_water_y_velocity_assuming_sea_level_for_geoid:m s-1 Best wishes Jonathan - Forwarded message from Karl Taylor <taylo...@llnl.go

Re: [CF-metadata] Standard names for CF trac ticket #143

2017-05-25 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear all, I kinda like the idea of changing "above sea level" to "above mean sea level", but it still remains somewhat vague, since the period over which the mean is computed isn't specified. Or is there some accepted time? In any case maybe it is o.k. to be vague best regards, Karl

Re: [CF-metadata] axis attribute

2017-04-04 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, I don't think the issue of 2-d auxiliary coordinates entered the discussion leading to their allowance by CF 1.6 (but I only quickly reviewed the discussion). I think that allowing the axis attribute to be attached to an auxiliary coordinate that is 1-d can be useful (e.g., when a

Re: [CF-metadata] CF compliant tripolar grid representation

2017-03-30 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Sebastien, More than one group stored output on a tripolar grid in CMIP5. I'm pretty sure they did it in a CF-conforming way. I know at least some of the GFDL model output was reported on a tripolar grid, as described at http://nomads.gfdl.noaa.gov/CM2.X/oceangrid.html (or search on

Re: [CF-metadata] New standard names for OMIP biogeochemistry and chemistry

2017-03-28 Thread Karl Taylor
ttom of the atmosphere > differently. > > Having said that, I can't recall the discussion about the new OMIP surface > names, so I think we should wait for Alison's summary. > > Best wishes > > Jonathan > > - Forwarded message f

Re: [CF-metadata] New standard names for OMIP biogeochemistry and chemistry

2017-03-23 Thread Karl Taylor
rently. Having said that, I can't recall the discussion about the new OMIP surface names, so I think we should wait for Alison's summary. Best wishes Jonathan - Forwarded message from Karl Taylor <taylo...@llnl.gov> - Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:27:08 -0700 From: Karl Taylor <taylo

Re: [CF-metadata] geoid, sea surface, height, and standard names

2017-03-21 Thread Karl Taylor
On 3/21/17 9:20 AM, Jonathan Gregory wrote: Dear Karl sea_surface_height_above_geoid I'm not sure it's true that "In an ocean GCM the geoid is the surface of zero depth". Many ocean models have an ocean surface that rises above the geoid in some areas and falls below in other areas.

[CF-metadata] geoid, sea surface, height, and standard names

2017-03-17 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, I've been looking at the standard names used to describe the vertical location of the sea surface and have some questions. sea_surface_height_above_geoid The geoid is a surface of constant geopotential with which mean sea level would coincide if the ocean were at rest. (The volume

Re: [CF-metadata] Pre-proposal for "charset"

2017-03-09 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Bob and all, I have not had time to follow this thread in detail, but a remark (in the most recent email) that seemed unnecessarily sarcastic caught my eye, and impelled me to look into what might have led to this dip in our normally courteous, respectful discourse. As Chair of the CF

Re: [CF-metadata] additional standard name for ISMIP6

2017-01-25 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Alison and Jonathan, I'm confused by the following discussion: 17. land_ice_mass_not_displacing_sea_water (kg) The name and units are agreed. I suggest the following as the definition: ' "Land ice not displacing sea water" means land ice that would not alter sea level if removed. It

Re: [CF-metadata] Composite area types in CMIP6 data

2017-01-06 Thread Karl Taylor
From my perspective, it would make sense to use the existing convention and look into a more structured encoding if there is a specific requirement for it. regards, Martin ________ From: Karl Taylor [taylo...@llnl.gov] Sent: 06 January 2017 17:29 To: Jonathan Gre

Re: [CF-metadata] Composite area types in CMIP6 data

2017-01-06 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Martin and Jonathan, An alternative would be to (generally) allow elemental area_types to be combined with logical not/and/or connectors. area_types are used either as labels (stored in a variable pointed to by the coordinates attribute) or in cell_methods. In both cases parsing combined

Re: [CF-metadata] Missing data bins in histograms

2016-10-11 Thread Karl Taylor
Hello, The histogram records frequencies of a single characteristic of a variable (in this case for cloud top height). I think that information about whether or not a cloud exists should not be formally a part of the histogram. We could adopt the convention for this variable that in the

[CF-metadata] string variables and netCDF4

2016-08-12 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, I have a question from Robert Pincus that I don't know that answer to: Is it ok to use a one-dimensional “string” variable instead of a two-dimensional character variable to encode expt_label? This might be asking whether it’s ok to use netCDF4, which I certainly hope is the case.

Re: [CF-metadata] Use of CF standard name region

2016-05-21 Thread Karl Taylor
strings as numbers in a data variable, but since the process is reversible the mechanism works both ways! If you think that this use of the convention is not obvious as it stands, then I would propose that we insert an extra sentence in Sect 3.5 pointing out the use of this mechanism to encode strin

Re: [CF-metadata] Use of CF standard name region

2016-05-20 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, Perhaps we should define a new standard_name: e.g., basin_index (or region_index) to replace the misused "region" standard_name. I would note that in the conventions document in example 3.3 there is a standard name: "sea_water_speed status_flag" "status_flag" is a standard "name

Re: [CF-metadata] weighted time mean vs. conditional time mean.

2016-05-20 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi All, Note that "cloud" is listed as a valid area_type in http://cfconventions.org/Data/area-type-table/4/build/area-type-table.html In CMIP5 I used the following to describe the time mean surface temperature of sea ice. cell_methods = "time: mean (weighted by area of sea ice)" At the

[CF-metadata] cells with different numbers of vertices

2016-04-05 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, For unstructured grids when some cells are quadralaterals and others are pentagons, the convention stipulates that bounds should be dimensioned (n,5) so that the lat and lon locations of all 5 penatagon vertices can be recorded. My question is what to do about the extra vertex for

Re: [CF-metadata] Negative emissions?

2016-03-08 Thread Karl Taylor
ng, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CF-metadata digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Confusing skin temperature and interface temperature (Karl Taylor) ------ M

Re: [CF-metadata] Confusing skin temperature and interface temperature

2016-03-08 Thread Karl Taylor
each the person managing the list at cf-metadata-ow...@cgd.ucar.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CF-metadata digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Co

Re: [CF-metadata] Confusing skin temperature and interface temperature

2016-03-07 Thread Karl Taylor
re for Environmental Data Analysis Email: alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk <mailto:j.a.pamm...@rl.ac.uk> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory R25, 2.22 Harwell Campus, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K. *From:*CF-metadata [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] *On Behalf Of

Re: [CF-metadata] Confusing skin temperature and interface temperature

2016-03-02 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Alison and all, For "sea_surface_temperature", there is a problem stating definitively that it is "not the skin or interface temperature". In most models the skin and interface temperatures over ice-free (i.e., open) ocean are indeed the same as sea_surface_temperature (by

Re: [CF-metadata] How to build CF-compliant seasonal climatology when data begins within a season

2016-02-11 Thread Karl Taylor
agreed a convention for doing that, as extra info. Alternatively you could record it as unstandardised info as a comment in () in the cell_methods, as you note. Best wishes Jonathan ----- Forwarded message from Karl Taylor <taylo...@llnl.gov> - Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 15:37:01 -0800

Re: [CF-metadata] How to build CF-compliant seasonal climatology when data begins within a season

2016-02-11 Thread Karl Taylor
the climatologies? best regards, Karl On 2/11/16 10:15 AM, Jim Biard wrote: Karl, I think you should be able to handle this in the bounds variable. If you write the first entry as "2000-12-1", "2010-03-01", doesn't that describe things correctly? Grace and peace, Jim On 2

Re: [CF-metadata] How to build CF-compliant monthly mean diurnal cycles

2016-02-10 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Alejandro, I hope someone else will also check this, but I'm pretty sure you've done it correctly. I would note that "time: mean within days time: mean over days" implies in your example that fluxes are 1-hour mean amounts averaged for each hour of the day over all days in the month.

[CF-metadata] How to build CF-compliant seasonal climatology when data begins within a season

2016-02-10 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear CF community, In representing the seasonal climatology based on data available for the period January 1, 2000 through December 31 2010, what would be the correct climatology_bounds? climatology_bounds = "1999-12-1", "2011-3-1", "2000-3-1", "2010-6-1",

Re: [CF-metadata] [CF Metadata] Question about ancillary variables/formula terms variables

2015-12-22 Thread Karl Taylor
ket #98 could be reopened as an enhancement ... All the best, David Original message from Karl Taylor (01PM 21 Dec 15) > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:59:33 -0800 > From: Karl Taylor <taylo...@llnl.gov <mailto:taylo...@llnl.gov>> > To: cf-metadata@cgd.uc

Re: [CF-metadata] [CF Metadata] Question about ancillary variables/formula terms variables

2015-12-22 Thread Karl Taylor
points out that this is not a convention. That's as close as it gets. If it was there in the past it is gone now. Grace and peace, Jim On 12/22/15 12:07 PM, Karl Taylor wrote: Hi John, this is a bit of a tangent, but you state: "Another possible use case is to represent contiguous bounds, where l

Re: [CF-metadata] [CF Metadata] Question about ancillary variables/formula terms variables

2015-12-21 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi David, I can't think of anyone needing these constructs, although there are cases when both the "parent" and ancillary or formula_terms variable might *both* have a scalar dimension. Karl On 12/21/15 7:41 AM, David Hassell wrote: Hello, I was wondering if anyone has ever had use for an

Re: [CF-metadata] Climatological Stats

2015-09-11 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Ajay, Since "month" is not a proper unit of measure, convert your times to days and use a unit "days since ...". Also, it is normally a bad idea to have your base time set to a date before the switch from Julian to Gregorian calendar. I suggest using a base time of "1955-01-01" (i.e.,

Re: [CF-metadata] Duplicate VARIABLE:standard_name attributes

2015-08-05 Thread Karl Taylor
Yes. Karl On 8/5/15 3:12 PM, John Kerfoot wrote: Hello, This is likely a noob question, but I'm wondering if CF conventions allow for multiple variables to have the same standard name in the same NetCDF file? Thanks, John ___ CF-metadata

Re: [CF-metadata] original_ensemble_size

2015-07-23 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, This addresses the issue of how to associate an ensemble size with a variable. It also suggests an alternate way of proceeding that is more general and will allow us to record, for example, which models were included in a multi-model mean. First to consider Jim's suggestion: I

Re: [CF-metadata] How to define time coordinate in GPS?

2015-07-20 Thread Karl Taylor
in the CF documentation. Jim On 7/20/15 12:51 PM, Karl Taylor wrote: Dear Jim, Yes, there are definitely cases like the one you mention where one shouldn't use the simple (approx.) gregorian calendar. Any measurements taken during the leap second would have to be either shifted in time or dropped

Re: [CF-metadata] Specifying latitude and longitude of transects and regions

2015-07-17 Thread Karl Taylor
...@cgd.ucar.edu] on behalf of Karl Taylor [taylo...@llnl.gov] Sent: 08 July 2015 01:26 To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Specifying latitude and longitude of transects and regions Hi Martin, Mark, and all, I can see that theoretically one might want to define a transect

Re: [CF-metadata] How to define time coordinate in GPS?

2015-07-15 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Jonathan and Jim, Thanks for bearing with me as I educate myself and think about this stuff. I rethought further about what I said yesterday and realized that maybe we were still making this too complicated. Jonathan's discussion helped me to come up with the following: Starting with

Re: [CF-metadata] How to define time coordinate in GPS?

2015-07-13 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Jim and Jonathan, Having tried to learn about UTC and GPS time systems, I think we'll need to find a way to explain to CF users in a simple way what calendar they should use and when. The GPS system relies on 24-hour (exactly 86400 sec) wall-clock without leap seconds added, which

Re: [CF-metadata] How to define time coordinate in GPS?

2015-07-10 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Jonathan and Jim, I'm o.k. with placing UTC or GPS as part of the calendar attribute (rather than in the units). Your arguments in favor of that option make sense to me now. Jim, I think the second bullet (*) point is important and makes sense to me. I hope this doesn't mean we're

Re: [CF-metadata] Specifying latitude and longitude of transects and regions

2015-07-07 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Martin, Mark, and all, I can see that theoretically one might want to define a transect, but do we have any compelling use case to do this at the moment? I don't think CMIP6 is such a case. cheers, Karl On 7/1/15 6:33 AM, Hedley, Mark wrote: Hello Martin, If the two end points can be

Re: [CF-metadata] How to define time coordinate in GPS?

2015-06-29 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, I haven't followed all this as closely as I would have liked, but will hazard some comments anyway: 1. I think we should require that elapsed time (recorded by the time-coordinate in CF files) be correct no matter what the calendar. So samples taken at a specific interval have

Re: [CF-metadata] How to define time coordinate in GPS?

2015-06-29 Thread Karl Taylor
, Jim Biard wrote: Karl, On 6/29/15 2:00 PM, Karl Taylor wrote: Hi all, I haven't followed all this as closely as I would have liked, but will hazard some comments anyway: 1. I think we should require that elapsed time (recorded by the time-coordinate in CF files) be correct no matter what

Re: [CF-metadata] Specifying latitude and longitude of transects and regions

2015-06-29 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Martin, I guess the question is why the longitude and latitude of end points would be of interest to anyone. I guess you could make a case for seeing whether a modeler had computed the transect for some region that doesn't correspond to the strait (or comparable feature) of interest, but

Re: [CF-metadata] cell_methods for climatology?

2015-06-25 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Charlie (Carlos), I'm pretty sure the cell_methods should only be an attribute of a non-coordinate variable (*not* an attribute of time). Your 1-step and 2-step methods will yield the same answer (if you keep track of how long each season is when you do the averaging, and you weight the

Re: [CF-metadata] Page with searchable UDUNITS tables now available

2015-06-16 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Jim, Looks helpful. I wonder if you could convince the unidata folks to link to this from their udunits webpage. That would be quite useful. It would of course have to be kept up to date. cheers, Karl On 6/12/15 6:27 AM, Jim Biard wrote: Hi. I have just made a web page that contains

Re: [CF-metadata] Are cell_methods attributes OK for coordinate variables?

2015-06-01 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, Normally CF doesn't prohibit extra attributes being defined, so I'm not sure whether the checker should be objecting. That being said, I don't think the convention should sanction attaching a cell_methods to a coordinate variable *instead* of attaching it to a regular variable

Re: [CF-metadata] How to define time coordinate in GPS?

2015-05-20 Thread Karl Taylor
In a similar position (of understanding) as John, I agree with him. Karl On 5/20/15 7:43 AM, John Graybeal wrote: Without fully appreciating _all_ the particulars (sorry!), I think Jonathan's diagnostic (that people would tend to keep using gregorian) is correct. I like the idea of a warning

Re: [CF-metadata] How to define time coordinate in GPS?

2015-05-14 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear all, I have not followed all the arguments over the last few weeks, but the summary below seems sensible to me. I don't think it will cause significant harm to eliminate standard calendar as an option and restricte the gregorian calendar to be one without leap seconds. best regards,

Re: [CF-metadata] Is there ambiguity in labelling climatological time. Was: CF-metadata Digest, Vol 144, Issue 25

2015-05-05 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear all, I agree with this view. Karl On 5/5/15 9:52 AM, Jonathan Gregory wrote: Dear all I agree with the view that we shouldn't be more restrictive about which year should be chosen for supplying climatological time coords. It is an arbitrary choice (in fact the coord is always arbitrary

Re: [CF-metadata] CF Metadata Mailing List Archives

2015-04-21 Thread Karl Taylor
thanks, Brian, for attending to this. We'll hold off. Let us know if we need to make changes once you've got things in order on your end. best regards, Karl On 4/21/15 9:57 AM, Brian Eaton wrote: Hi John, Thanks for your comments. I completely agree. The archive should be public, and

Re: [CF-metadata] CF trac server

2015-04-20 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear all, Just to confirm, that I've verified there's a problem and we're looking into it. thanks, Karl On 4/20/15 8:54 AM, Jonathan Gregory wrote: Dear all I can't access the CF trac ticket server http://cf-trac.llnl.gov/trac at present. Is it having problems, does anyone know? Cheers

Re: [CF-metadata] standard_name: 'ensemble', was RE: realization | x of n

2014-11-11 Thread Karl Taylor
techniques) but 1.I'm not sure there has been much exchange of non-model data using 'realization' (please correct me if I'm wrong) 2.The term 'realization' has caused confusion Jamie *From:*CF-metadata [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] *On Behalf Of *Karl Taylor *Sent:* 07 November 2014

Re: [CF-metadata] string valued coordinates

2014-10-03 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Mark, One example I know of: area_type is a string type variable with standard values taken from: http://cfconventions.org/Data/cf-standard-names/27/src/area-type-table.xml This was used in CMIP5. The units in the standard name table are given as 1. best regards, Karl On 10/3/14, 3:59

Re: [CF-metadata] Daily mean temperature

2014-09-11 Thread Karl Taylor
further comments or ideas then please let me know. Thanks, Dan *From:* CF-metadata [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] *On Behalf Of *Karl Taylor *Sent:* 11 September 2014 00:44 *To:* cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu *Subject:* Re

Re: [CF-metadata] CF Conventions and netCDF-4 enhanced model

2014-09-10 Thread Karl Taylor
Russ and all, One aspect of netCDF-4 we almost certainly expect to make use of for CMIP6 is the automated compression option. As far as I know, this does not affect the conventions. If you see a problem with this, please let me know right away. Karl lem any On 9/10/14, 9:16 AM, Russ Rew

Re: [CF-metadata] Daily mean temperature

2014-09-10 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Dan, Seth, and all, I'm not sure I understand what the practice is; do you calculate the daily mean from the max and min temperature that you read at 0900 GMT. If so, then I think it is straight-forward: the max and min temperatures occurred in the 24 hour period ending at 0900 GMT, and

Re: [CF-metadata] volume integral

2014-07-30 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Mark, I agree with Jonathan, that it is a different quantity and needs a different standard name. Since it is extensive, the default (and correct) cell_methods is sum. Although no longer a function of lat, lon, and depth, you would probably want to define those as (scalar) coordinate

[CF-metadata] Fwd: Re: Request for new standard-names: graupel, wind_gust, inland_water_area_fraction

2014-05-22 Thread Karl Taylor
I forgot to reply to list. Here it is. Original Message Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Request for new standard-names: graupel, wind_gust, inland_water_area_fraction Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 09:47:37 -0700 From: Karl Taylor taylo...@llnl.gov To: John Graybeal john.grayb

Re: [CF-metadata] climatological statistics

2014-04-24 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Natalia, Jonathan, and all, I don't think maximum (interval: 1 day) would be explicit enough for the variable precipitation_amount. It wouldn't distinguish between precipitation_amounts accumulated over each 24 hour period or some shorter interval (say, from 8 to 11 each morning).

Re: [CF-metadata] Where does the CF standard name list live now?

2014-04-15 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Rich and all, PCMDI lost its server a while back and we're in the process of migrating to github: http://cf-convention.github.io/ where much of the website has been reconstructed (but we're still working on the standard names doc). In the meantime the standard name table can be

Re: [CF-metadata] Update on ncdismember (+CFchecker) for hierarchical files

2014-01-15 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi Stephen, Charlie, and all, I was unaware that there was a cfchecker based on cdat. Is that the one at the CF Trac site or the one at https://bitbucket.org/mde_/cfchecker ? Does anyone know whether one of the cfcheckers is more complete/correct/robust than the other? If one is superior,

Re: [CF-metadata] CF upgrade to netCDF variable names

2014-01-15 Thread Karl Taylor
All, Yes, that statement seems quite definitive and unambiguous, and for the reasons stated in other emails, I support retaining it. regards, Karl On 1/15/14 9:37 AM, Steve Hankin wrote: On 1/15/2014 9:24 AM, Jim Biard wrote: Chris, The point is, the Conventions themselves state that

Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names: day, night, and day/night terminator area_fractions

2014-01-14 Thread Karl Taylor
10, 2014, at 11:30 AM, Karl Taylor taylo...@llnl.gov mailto:taylo...@llnl.gov wrote: Dear Randy, Jonathan, and all, I agree that the hybrid choice with twilight rather than terminator, is clearest. Just to cover all the options (or maybe to revisit a suggestion I missed earlier), could new

Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names: day, night, and day/night terminator area_fractions

2014-01-10 Thread Karl Taylor
Dear Randy, Jonathan, and all, I agree that the hybrid choice with twilight rather than terminator, is clearest. Just to cover all the options (or maybe to revisit a suggestion I missed earlier), could new area_type(s) be defined -- day, night, twilight -- and then we could just use the

Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names: day, night, and day/night terminator area_fractions

2014-01-03 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, I don't find area_fraction_of_solar_zenith_angle to be understandable and I'm not sure the phrase makes sense. I don't see how you can have an area of a solar zenith angle (or an area_fraction of an angle). One could also be misled into thinking this was somehow related to the

Re: [CF-metadata] Surface temperatures

2013-10-03 Thread Karl Taylor
directions lately. Hopefully, it is possible to bring back to life a submission that I had made for the land_surface_skin_temperature. Revisiting my previous proposal and a few e-mails by Karl Taylor and Evan Manning, I have made some modifications to the definition of this standard name so that I

Re: [CF-metadata] Towards recognizing and exploiting hierarchical groups (Charlie Zender - Steve Hankin - Richard Signell)

2013-09-19 Thread Karl Taylor
Hi all, Again, I may be unaware of all the possible uses of hierarchies, but here's our experience with CMIP. It seems to me if hierarchies are for the purpose of organizing datasets (or organizing a bunch of files), this should fall outside CF's purview because a single hierarchy is rarely

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