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On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 06:45:21PM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 09:55:52AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
Ideally have some way for the user to override the default choice if
automatic selection fails...
Can you detect smp from non-smp kernel?
i would guess not...
On Wed, 2002-11-27 at 12:37, Mateusz Papiernik wrote:
But unlike dpkg-source v2, you can start using CBS right now. Sound
interesting? Here's the URL where you can download CBS:
http://cvs.verbum.org/debian/rules
Yes, it sounds interesting, but I had a problems with CBS and two
Colin Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
your upstream's Makefile isn't properly
coded to keep other flags like -I around when CFLAGS is set.
the real solution is to fix the Makefile so that this works.
Human users will also appreciate such a fix...
-Miles
--
`Life is a boundless sea of
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Surely you aren't suggesting that everyone has a right to post opinions
about any subject on debian-devel, on the grounds that the mailing list
is open to the public? We already have extensive filters in place on
our mailing lists to block messages
On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 12:01:15PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 11:55:56AM +0100, Roberto Suarez Soto wrote:
On Nov/27, Emile van Bergen wrote:
What about Avalon? Both a composer (well, hmm) and the place where
Excalibur was forged.
Being
sean == sean finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
sean i would guess not...
/proc/cpuinfo.
Of course if the user doesn't start out using an smp kernel, they
clearly don't need one.
--
Stephen
So if she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood And
therefore?... A witch!
I just wanted to wish all those who celebrate Thanks Giving today and
wish everyone a happy and safe day. Eat lots of turkey...drink lots of
beer...and watch football!
--
Sean Harshbarger (NO I DIDNT BURN CARS AFTER THE OSU VS MICHIGAN GAME YOU
FOOLS!
I AM A CALM BUCKEYE!) harsy
On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 19:00, Stephen Zander wrote:
sean == sean finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
sean i would guess not...
/proc/cpuinfo.
Of course if the user doesn't start out using an smp kernel, they
clearly don't need one.
Not necessarily. One obvious application for this would
also sprach Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2002.11.28.0441 +0100]:
By this I assume you mean it does something like store the passphrase in
non-swappable memory and then when requested use some form of IPC to
feed it into a /usr/bin/gpg process. I assume it hardcodes the path,
which would
On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 05:11:26PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
[...]
And of course base-config is in debian cvs where anyone can check in a
translation
[...]
Being able to automatically extract upstream homepage URL from package
meta-data has already been discussed (even if I don't remember clearly
Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-28
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: snortconf
Version : 0.4.2
Upstream Author : A.L. Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* URL : http://www.xjack.org/snortconf
* License : GPL
Description : A menu based
Hi Oohara!
You wrote:
Why does Debian host the Sourceforge site? I don't see anything
between sf.net and debian.org .
You misunderstand. Debian will host _its_own_ sourforge-like
environment, for developers.
--
Kind regards,
* Stephen Zander [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2002-11-28 09:05]:
sean == sean finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
/proc/cpuinfo.
it doesn't work with a non-smp kernel.
but
dmesg | grep Processors seems to work (on x86, 2.4 kernel).
Of course if the user doesn't start out using an smp kernel, they
On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 10:13:22AM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
Em Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:21:47 -0600, Chris Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED]
escreveu:
Yes, some sort of su to root prompt is probably a good idea; dunno
if I can reuse the existing code or what. If not, something similar
On 2002-11-27, Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That would still let root replace /usr/bin/gpg with such a program
though. So something like this is of some value, but only manages to
narrow the window that lets someone who has temporary access to, say,
a laptop with an agent running and a
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:53:00 -0500
Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 04:23:51PM -0500, Jim Penny wrote:
I see no problem with this license as far as it goes, but it
doesn't go far enough.
There is no permission granted to make modifications (and
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:41:29 EST, Joey Hess writes:
q-agent is a PITA to get working with stuff like mutt though, so I do
look forward to using gpg-agent.
ad type=self
What for? signing/encrypting stuff? if so, maybe have a look at kuvert.
/ad
I just think I'd guard my laptop with
my mail
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 06:42:27PM +1100, Drew Parsons wrote:
How about hollin.debian.org, or eregion.debian.org, the Elfen kingdom
outside Moria (what language was speak friend, and enter written in?)
Elfic?
The line below the heading is written in Sindarin, the language of the
elves, in
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:54:52AM +0100, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
Why does Debian host the Sourceforge site? I don't see anything
between sf.net and debian.org .
You misunderstand. Debian will host _its_own_ sourforge-like
environment, for developers.
Not just for developers, for everyone
Hello,
a friend of mine recently bought some Debian woody CDs.
Because the CDs do not look very official she wants to
verify that these are really Debian CDs and not something
trojanized.
I suggested to her to compare the output of
md5sum /dev/cdrom
with the corresponding values from
Tim Dijkstra wrote:
So doesn't this mean it's time to change the social contract or the DFSG
(are standards software?) to make an exception for 'documents and files
describing standards'. It's clear that we can't live without them (hence
should be in main), and it is also clear there is no use in
Josip Rodin wrote:
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:54:52AM +0100, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
Why does Debian host the Sourceforge site? I don't see anything
between sf.net and debian.org .
You misunderstand. Debian will host _its_own_ sourforge-like
environment, for developers.
Not just for
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:55:31 +0100
Giacomo Catenazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, we can live without standard in main. I never read ISO C and POSIX
standards (because these was non free (like free beer)). But
I program GNU/Linux in C. Also the RFC are not enough free, but I see
no problem
Hi Martin!
You wrote:
- If you have updated your entries following my mail, these changes
have been lost. Please login again and update your entries. Those
who have requested a new password following my mail should have
received a new passwd by email by now (If not, just
* Bas Zoetekouw [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2002-11-28 15:00]:
Could you please send me a new password?
done.
--
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Andreas Fuchs wrote:
I find it interesting that you point this out, because I was just
wondering wether it would be possible to just open(2) the file
/usr/bin/gpg and exec(2) this file via the file descriptor from this
open(2) calland not the path name.
Yeah, you could do that (on linux
On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 05:34:20PM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
hey how about something much less cryptic like forge. Nothing worse than
having to guess what woman's name some silly coder named the program I am
looking for.
And since most of us aren't French the names mean very
* Ben Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2002-11-28 10:49]:
Bah, that's what CNAME is for. We have www. cvs. etc. Sure, give
the system hosting the service a generic CNAME pointer, but a
system's canonical name itself has to have some character.
The machine itself has a name already (quantz).
--
If a packaged program contains a Suggests:ed feature that is linked at
runtime when a user does something special, perhaps via dlopen(3), then
the program may appear to fail mysteriously if the library the feature
depends on has different calling conventions or symbols from the one the
program
quote who=Sean Harshbarger
I just wanted to wish all those who celebrate Thanks Giving today and wish
everyone a happy and safe day. Eat lots of turkey...drink lots of
beer...and watch football!
And, for the Americans in the crowd: http://gnome.org/
- Jeff
--
PHP, when it first came
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:11:26PM +0100, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
The machine itself has a name already (quantz).
Oh, I retract my objection then. If the machine has a name already, why
bother naming the service something obscure? Service names should be easy to
remember.
Ben
--
nSLUG
The machine itself has a name already (quantz).
yes :) but maybe it will be better to do some IN A records? In this way,
ping cvs.sth.debian.org will ping cvs.sth.debian.org, not
quantz.debian.org (I mean address which ping show).
--
Mati ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Sounds like a Windows problem,
Ben Armstrong (2002-11-28 11:14:50 -0400) :
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:11:26PM +0100, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
The machine itself has a name already (quantz).
Oh, I retract my objection then. If the machine has a name already,
why bother naming the service something obscure? Service names
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:34:45PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
Ben Armstrong (2002-11-28 11:14:50 -0400) :
Oh, I retract my objection then. If the machine has a name already,
why bother naming the service something obscure? Service names
should be easy to remember.
Think non-us or
Sebastian Henschel (2002-11-28 10:08:11 -0500) :
* Added an empty postinst to prevent dh_installdocs from deprecated
linking from /usr/doc to /usr/share/doc.
That's an ugly hack. Please use DH_COMPAT=4 instead.
Roland.
--
Roland Mas
Food, shelter, source code.
-- Cyclic Software
Hi,
been playing with deb-src to see how it works.
Interesting little utility. I noticed when it started
the old ./configure that the arch was set to i386, but
I prefer to have this set to my arch. I can't find
anything in the docs that says if this is possible or
not, anyone have any ideas?
Ben Armstrong (2002-11-28 11:37:44 -0400) :
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:34:45PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
Ben Armstrong (2002-11-28 11:14:50 -0400) :
Oh, I retract my objection then. If the machine has a name already,
why bother naming the service something obscure? Service names
should be
#include hallo.h
* Roland Mas [Wed, Nov 27 2002, 11:03:58AM]:
The code is almost ready, the server itself should be OK soon (if
not already), and Wichert and I even managed to find a time where both
of us can be on the same IRC network at the same time.
Now for the *real* important
Le jeu 28/11/2002 à 16:11, Andrew Chadwick a écrit :
Would it make sense for these cases to be covered by extra debian
packages, perhaps with a -feature suffix to the name, which contain
concrete dependencies? That way the admin will be able to assure his
users that an upgrade won't
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 02:58:38PM +0100, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
UnicodeData is different, because we need the data in our program,
not only the ideas. And it this case we see that as software!
Maybe you're right that we don't really need the rfc's in main. They
actually are now and it would
Richard Braakman writes:
But do you think it's _okay_ for such a file not to be free?
/usr/share/perl/5.8.0/unicore/UnicodeData.txt, which I assume is the file
you are talking about, contains just a table of data. Unless its creation
involved creativity rather than just sweat of the brow it is
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:58:38 +1100
Andrew Lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 12:21:40PM -0800, Jim Lynch wrote:
A bit hypocritical of you pointing out that I was
participating in my own thread late.
Not at all. The thread I refer to is the now-very-large Are we
Hi,
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:45:48AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Richard Braakman writes:
But do you think it's _okay_ for such a file not to be free?
/usr/share/perl/5.8.0/unicore/UnicodeData.txt, which I assume is the file
you are talking about, contains just a table of data. Unless
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:54:04PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
Oh, and by the way, it can't be quantz, since it won't have the same
IP address.
IMHO we should go with a french composer (or whatever the scheme was) as
the machine name, and something simple like 'sf' as the service name.
Michael
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 06:07:57PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
However, in these perverse times, where companies patent hyperlinks, I
honestly have no idea whether Unicode itself is owned but licensed
royalty-free, or as free as say, ASCII or English.
These days I wouldn't be eager to rely
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:33:43PM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote:
These days I wouldn't be eager to rely on the limits of copyrightability.
CNN.com - Composer pays for piece of silence - Sep. 23, 2002
http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/23/uk.silence/
It's worth pointing out that
Le Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:57:16PM +0100, Jérôme Marant écrivait:
I hope it is for packaging activities and debian-related stuff only.
Not really. It is for any free software related project launched by
a Debian developer (ie the project request should come from a Debian
developer).
Of course,
Emile van Bergen writes:
I'd say that the definition of Unicode, heck even ASCII, involves a fair
amount of creativity.
I don't doubt that the development of Unicode involved creativity: under
current law it probably qualifies as a patentable invention. Inventions
and ideas, however, cannot be
Hi,
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:52AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Emile van Bergen writes:
I'd say that the definition of Unicode, heck even ASCII, involves a fair
amount of creativity.
I don't doubt that the development of Unicode involved creativity: under
current law it probably
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:51:02PM +0100, Jochen Voss wrote:
Is this a good way to check wheter the CDs are official Debian CDs?
Yes! Except md5sum should be called differently, see below.
The result was that the checksums did match for CD #1, but did NOT
match for the remaining CDs. When she
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:53:53AM -0800, Jon Kent wrote:
been playing with deb-src to see how it works.
Interesting little utility.
What and where is deb-src?
--
- mdz
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:57:35 +0200
Richard Braakman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 02:58:38PM +0100, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
UnicodeData is different, because we need the data in our program,
not only the ideas. And it this case we see that as software!
Maybe you're
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:42:30PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
Sebastian Henschel (2002-11-28 10:08:11 -0500) :
* Added an empty postinst to prevent dh_installdocs from deprecated
linking from /usr/doc to /usr/share/doc.
That's an ugly hack. Please use DH_COMPAT=4 instead.
The
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:53:53AM -0800, Jon Kent wrote:
Hi,
been playing with deb-src to see how it works.
Interesting little utility.
apt-src?
I noticed when it started the old ./configure that the arch was set to
i386, but I prefer to have this set to my arch.
Don't fool with the
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Thursday 28 November 2002 15:42, Roland Mas wrote:
Sebastian Henschel (2002-11-28 10:08:11 -0500) :
* Added an empty postinst to prevent dh_installdocs from deprecated
linking from /usr/doc to /usr/share/doc.
That's an ugly hack.
Jim Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:58:38 +1100
Andrew Lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was referring to your own post to my DAM approval wait time
outburst. Before this email, I had made some attempt at contributing
to the discussion with two posts in the little
Colin Watson (2002-11-28 18:40:28 +) :
[...]
You need Build-Depends{,-Indep}: debhelper (= 4.1.0) for this, not
a particular setting of DH_COMPAT.
Well, to be frank, I think you need both :-)
Roland.
--
Roland Mas
Why did the elephant cross the road?
Because it was the chicken's day
Hi,
apt-src?
yup, sorry shouldn't write mail and do other stuff @
the same time.
Don't fool with the Debian architecture name. It
might be better to
install pentium-builder instead.
got that installed I pretty sure. Actually I was
talking rubbish about it building against i386 arch,
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 08:36:20PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
Colin Watson (2002-11-28 18:40:28 +) :
You need Build-Depends{,-Indep}: debhelper (= 4.1.0) for this, not
a particular setting of DH_COMPAT.
Well, to be frank, I think you need both :-)
Why? (If it's a joke and I'm not
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:02:07PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:52AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
I'm arguing that the _creation_ _of_ _that_ _table_
involved no creativity, not that the invention of Unicode didn't.
Well, so you say that if I write a novel, all
Hi,
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:47:02PM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote:
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:02:07PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:52AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Is it possible to create other Unicode tables that serve the same purpose
as that one
Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-28
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: cryptplug
Version :
Upstream Author :
Klarälvdalens Datakonsult AB
- Design and implementation.
g10 Code GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Packaging and bug
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:45:48AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Richard Braakman writes:
But do you think it's _okay_ for such a file not to be free?
/usr/share/perl/5.8.0/unicore/UnicodeData.txt, which I assume is the file
you are talking about, contains just a table of data. Unless its
On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 08:33:44AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
This is the question that hasn't been addressed yet. Is the Release
file that Karl posted correct?
I'm still waiting for an answer on this from some guru, I've an
apt-gettable repository but I haven't yet looked at the pinning stuff.
Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
Indeed, the Debian home page is so well organized and so easy to find
and get around in, that people don't *need* so many secondary sources
of information. Our success at doing our job well has meant that the
distrowatch counter is especially inaccurate in our
Karl M. Hegbloom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian/~njordan
Pin-Priority: 989
!!! Will those who know please check the above and see if my
understanding of how apt/preferences is supposed to be used is correct?
I'd hate to give misinformation and have a lot of
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 05:13:01PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
People report this to the web team all the time.
And every time they get a negative response, because we cannot fix something
that other people broke: the CD images distribution system. When woody was
released, the CD images were not
On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 10:41:29PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
That would still let root replace /usr/bin/gpg with such a program
though. So something like this is of some value, but only manages to
narrow the window that lets someone who has temporary access to, say, a
laptop with an agent
Hi aj,
Anthony Towns wrote:
It's disabled due to non-US moving hosts (satie to klecker), it hasn't
been re-enabled yet since there's still some worries about whether non-US
has been recovered adequately; and the glibc issue means there's not a
huge amount of point to re-enabling it. :-/
Eh,
Roland Mas wrote:
Colin Watson (2002-11-28 18:40:28 +) :
[...]
You need Build-Depends{,-Indep}: debhelper (= 4.1.0) for this, not
a particular setting of DH_COMPAT.
Well, to be frank, I think you need both :-)
No, you don't.
Regards,
Rene
--
.''`. Rene Engelhard -- Debian
Hi,
I work with locale en_US and keyboard layour us_intl, and frequently
have to type special characters in portuguese. The problem is that with
both multi-gnome-terminal and gnomeicu I wasn't able to type these
characters. With gnome-terminal it works fine. The version of
multi-gnome-terminal
On Thursday 28 November 2002 16:02, Bruno Diniz de Paula wrote:
Another question: is this question proper to this list, or I should have
tried debian-user? Sorry if it is unproper... (in fact, I also sent to
that list)
debian-user is the support list while debian-devel is for the day to day
Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-11-29
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: tsclient
Version : 0.56
Upstream Author : Erick Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* URL : http://www.gnomepro.com/tsclient/
* License : GPL
Description : GNOME2 frontend for rdesktop
I'm in Debian also because I like cooperative work and I hope Debian
Project is not a competition, but I had to change my opinion because I
did not receive respect from new maintainer Ari Pollak; and Debian did
not receive any respect too.
I maintain logjam (a client for livejournal web site
* Colin Walters ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Wed, 2002-11-27 at 12:37, Mateusz Papiernik wrote:
But unlike dpkg-source v2, you can start using CBS right now. Sound
interesting? Here's the URL where you can download CBS:
http://cvs.verbum.org/debian/rules
Yes, it sounds
On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 21:09, Andrew Lau wrote:
Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-11-29
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: tsclient
Version : 0.56
Upstream Author : Erick Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* URL : http://www.gnomepro.com/tsclient/
* License
Ben Armstrong wrote:
Bah, that's what CNAME is for.
that is _NOT_ what a CNAME is for. a CNAME is for when the hostname is
in a domain that is OUTSIDE of your control.
ie: evil.debian.org - www.msn.com = CNAME (we don't control the msn.com
domain)
forge.debian.org - quantz.debian.org = A (we
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 05:46:04PM +, Mark Brown wrote:
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:33:43PM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote:
These days I wouldn't be eager to rely on the limits of copyrightability.
CNN.com - Composer pays for piece of silence - Sep. 23, 2002
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:02:07PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:52AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Emile van Bergen writes:
I'd say that the definition of Unicode, heck even ASCII, involves a fair
amount of creativity.
I don't doubt that the
I've uploaded a test version of the tool at:
deb http://people.debian.org/~taru/deb/apt-listbugs/ ./
I'd like you to check it.
Currently, it retrieves bug reports from not bugs.debian.org,
but hanzubon.debian.gr.jp, which does proxy-caching of
bugs.debian.org temporary. This keeps a query to
Paul Hampson writes:
Patents are civil actions, while copyright violation is criminal,...
In the US copyright infringement is usually (not always anymore, but still
usually) civil as well.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
Firstly, I don't think this is a matter for debian-devel as it doesn't
involve the project as a whole and would best be dealt with privately.
Secondly, I'd like to apologize to Christian and the Debian project for
not following exact policy. However, in my defense, I did contact
Christian
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:22:01PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
How about: Windows Terminal Services (RDP) client for GNOME 2
Thanks for the comments Kamion. I normally take a lot more care in the
actual package description before finalising packages. I only noticed
today that I hadn't yet filed
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Format: 1.7
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:56:48 +0100
Source: libnet
Binary: libnet1 libnet1-dev
Architecture: source i386
Version: 1.1.0-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Domenico Andreoli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Changed-By: Domenico Andreoli
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Format: 1.7
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:52:53 -0800
Source: aspell
Binary: aspell-en aspell-doc libaspell-dev libaspell10 aspell
Architecture: source i386 all
Version: 0.33.7.1-12
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Brian Nelson [EMAIL
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