Re: arm64 Debian/Ubuntu port image available

2013-02-28 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Nice work, Wookey! If experience cross-building for armhf is any guide, all you need for NSS is a host build of shlibsign; see https://github.com/mkedwards/crosstool-ng/blob/master/patches/nss/3.12.10/0001-Modify-shlibsign-wrapper-for-cross-compilation.patch. There's also scriptage in that repo

Re: Bruce Perens hosts party at OSCON Wednesday night

2005-08-02 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 8/2/05, Adam Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unsolicited Commercial Email. Please pay the standard $2000 fee for advertisments on Debian mailing lists. Adam, I'm kind of curious what you mean by that. What, if any, actual or proposed statutory standard for UCE did you have in mind when you

Re: OT: debian mentors ubuntu

2005-07-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/19/05, Ben Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 12:21 +0200, Nico Golde wrote: Heyho, why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu? http://mentors.debian.net/ About this repository Welcome to the debian-mentors public software repository.

Re: libcurl3-dev: A development package linked again gnutls needed

2005-07-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/17/05, Marco d'Itri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Upstream developers should get a clue and either properly license their software, stop using libcurl or adding gnutls support to it. Upstream developers (and a lot of other people) should stop believing the FSF's FUD about how it's not legal to

Re: unreproducable bugs

2005-07-16 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/15/05, Manoj Srivastava va, manoj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [cranky but funny stuff] If there ever is a blackball commitee, Manoj of all people belongs on it. :-) Cheers, - Michael

Re: unreproducable bugs

2005-07-15 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/15/05, Manoj Srivastava va, manoj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's with the recent push to get every little things written down into policy, so the developer no longer is required to have an ability to think, or exercise any judgement whatsoever? Welcome to the software industry

Re: shared library -dev package naming proposal

2005-07-15 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/15/05, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jul 15, 2005 at 05:30:44PM +0900, Junichi Uekawa wrote: An alternate solution is to have a database for that kind of thing, but I forsee that it requires effort to maintain and keep up-to-date. Like the database I just queried

Re: unreproducable bugs

2005-07-15 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/15/05, Rich Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 7/15/05, Manoj Srivastava va, manoj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's with the recent push to get every little things written down into policy, so the developer no longer is required

Re: unreproducable bugs

2005-07-15 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/15/05, Rich Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am having a hard time reading this as anything but a non sequitur. Umm; it follows more from Manoj's comment than yours. Ah. OK. Personally, I prefer for a solution to be demonstrated to work, both socially and technically, before it

Re: unreproducable bugs

2005-07-15 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/15/05, Rich Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (As a practicing SubGenius, I like to think of the ornery, cussing Debian, up there with the Two-Fisted Jesus, and the Butting Buddha. Others may have other views) As a practicing Episcopatheist, I like to murmur, There is no God, and

Re: skills of developers

2005-07-14 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/14/05, Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In sum. Maybe it's time to create additional positions in Debian project? Maybe something like Packager (with knowledge about Bash and Debian Policy), Translator (with knowledge about some particular language and English), Helper

Re: Bug#301527: ITP: mazeofgalious -- The Maze of Galious

2005-07-13 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Added debian-legal; please drop debian-devel on follow-ups. On 7/9/05, John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is still using a copyrighted/trademarked (don't know which) name There is no such thing as a copyrighted name. The name does appear to have been a trademark at one time, but if

Re: Ongoing Firefox (and Thunderbird) Trademark problems

2005-07-03 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/3/05, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 05:35:09PM -0700, Michael K. Edwards wrote: On 7/2/05, Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 09:43:04PM +0100, Gervase Markham wrote: These are two very different cases, though

Re: Ongoing Firefox (and Thunderbird) Trademark problems

2005-07-02 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 7/2/05, Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 09:43:04PM +0100, Gervase Markham wrote: These are two very different cases, though. If a local admin installs a new root cert, that's cool - they are taking responsibility for the security of those users, and they

Re: Ongoing Firefox (and Thunderbird) Trademark problems

2005-06-27 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/27/05, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 02:34:00AM -0400, Eric Dorland wrote: Presumably isn't good enough IMHO. If they cared about fairness they would develop a trademark policy that could be applied to everyone, based on the quality criteria that is

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/20/05, Ian Murdock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/18/05, Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In any case, Ubuntu packages aren't Debian packages any more than Mandrake packages are Red Hat packages. If Ubuntu sees itself to Debian as Mandrake was to Red Hat

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/18/05, Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt Zimmerman wrote: Practically speaking, the differences in compatibility between Ubuntu and Debian is of as much concern as those between Debian stable and Debian unstable. New interfaces are added in unstable constantly, and software is

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/19/05, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of 596 lib packages in woody (loosely identified), 325 are still present in sarge. That's after three years of more or less constant development. Where did you come up with this absurd idea that all binary packages of any great complexity

Re: Mozilla Foundation Trademarks

2005-06-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/19/05, Eric Dorland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Michael K. Edwards ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I wouldn't say accept it, I would say acknowledge the safety zone offered unilaterally by the Mozilla Foundation, and as a courtesy to them make some effort to stay comfortably within it while

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/19/05, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 01:41:47AM -0700, Michael K. Edwards wrote: The examples that come to mind immediately are those with substantial components in both native code and an interpreted or bytecode language, such as Perl XSUBs and Python

Re: Mozilla Foundation Trademarks

2005-06-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/17/05, Eric Dorland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Exactly. If Debian doesn't need such an arrangement, neither do our users. And if our users don't need such an arrangement, our accepting it does not put us in a privileged position with respect to

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/18/05, Ian Murdock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm more worried about the future; and I still haven't seen anyone address my initial question, which is why Ubuntu is tracking sid on core things like libc in the first place. The value you add is around the edges with stuff like X.org and

Re: Ongoing Firefox (and Thunderbird) Trademark problems

2005-06-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/18/05, Eric Dorland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're skipping the crucial point here. Under the publicly available licenses/policies, we *cannot* call it Firefox. The MoFo is offering us an agreement that allows us to use the mark. I think agreeing to this is against the spirit of DFSG #8,

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/17/05, Ian Murdock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/16/05, Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking as someone with no Ubuntu affiliation (and IANADD either), I think that statement is based on a somewhat shallow analysis of how glibc is handled. [...] I don't doubt

Re: Mozilla Foundation Trademarks

2005-06-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/17/05, Gervase Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Hasler wrote: Alexander Sack writes: In general the part of the MoFo brand we are talking about is the product name (e.g. firefox, thunderbird, sunbird). From what I can recall now, it is used in the help menu, the about box, the

Re: Question regarding 'offensive' material

2005-06-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/17/05, Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you'll find that porn is the majority industry on the internet. The Internet is, to zeroth order, useful only for the same four things that interactive TV is well suited for: video games, gambling, pornography, and pornographic

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-16 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/16/05, Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:54:08PM -0500, Ian Murdock wrote: Daniel Stone wrote: libc6 added interfaces between 2.3.2 and 2.3.5 and made several other major changes, so all packages built with .5 depend on .5 or above, in case you use

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-16 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/16/05, Ian Murdock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: glibc. Shipping X.org and GNOME 2.10 adds value, since sarge doesn't ship them. Shipping glibc 2.6.5 vs. glibc 2.6.2 just adds incompatibilities. Speaking as someone with no Ubuntu affiliation (and IANADD either), I think that statement is based

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-16 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/16/05, Matthias Klose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Python is basic for Ubuntu. Given the long freeze of sarge, Debian had to support 2.1 (jython), 2.2 (for zope 2.6) and 2.3 for sarge. I'm happy we did have a possibility to ship 2.4.1 with sarge. Maybe not with the best packaging, but it's

Re: Debian concordance

2005-06-16 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/16/05, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 04:03:32PM -0700, Michael K. Edwards wrote: On the Ubuntu side, divergences from the last Debian glibc drop that was merged into hoary (2.3.2.ds1-20) include subtle but important fixes to NPTL/TLS (with particular

Re: Ports helping in World Domination? (was: Re: Canonical and Debian)

2005-06-07 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/6/05, Christian Perrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Julien BLACHE ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Eh, to achieve Total World Domination, we need to support every architecture out of there. Looks like a step in the wrong direction ;) Well, frankly speaking, Julien, last time I checked most

Re: Canonical and Debian

2005-06-06 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/5/05, Tollef Fog Heen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Michael K. Edwards | So either Debian collectively is | willing to labor to maintain a high standard of portability and | stability, or we need to focus on a few arches and ignore | bugs-in-principle that don't happen to break on those

Re: Canonical and Debian

2005-06-05 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 6/5/05, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can either step up and make sure the architectures you care about are in good shape for etch, or you can be a whiny brat expecting everything to be handed to you on a silver platter and accusing people of being members of a

Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

2005-06-01 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/31/05, Stephen Birch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay - you have my attention. If you are right etch will be as beautiful as Hoary within a few weeks of the sarge release. I think it's been so long since Debian started having pre-sarge freeze-spasms that we've all forgotten what it's like

Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

2005-05-31 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/31/05, Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, when Ubuntu makes improvements to packages how do those improvements flow back to Debian? They generally don't. Ubuntu considers it more effective to spend their time on PR to make people think they are giving stuff back, than to

Re:

2005-05-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/19/05, Thomas Bushnell BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip arguments that might have been worthy of rebuttal on debian-legal five months ago] I'm not trying to be snotty about this, but if you want to engage in the debate about the proper legal framework in which to understand the GPL, I

Re:

2005-05-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/19/05, Thomas Bushnell BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At this point, there seem to be quite a few people who agree that the FSF's stance (copyright-based license) and the far-from-novel one that you advance (unilateral license / donee

Re:

2005-05-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/20/05, Thomas Bushnell BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry about that; I skipped a step or two. Your unilateral grant of permission is not in fact a recognized mechanism under law for the conveyance of a non-exclusive copyright license

Re: [WASTE-dev-public] Do not package WASTE! UNAUTHORIZED SOFTWARE [Was: Re: Questions about waste licence and code.]

2005-05-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/18/05, Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Point taken. However, the GPL clearly states the conditions in section 6: 6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to

Re: [WASTE-dev-public] Do not package WASTE! UNAUTHORIZED SOFTWARE [Was: Re: Questions about waste licence and code.]

2005-05-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/19/05, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/19/05, Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GPL is anomalous in that the drafter has published a widely believed, but patently false, set of claims about its legal basis in the FSF FAQ. For the record, I disagree

Re: [WASTE-dev-public] Do not package WASTE! UNAUTHORIZED SOFTWARE [Was: Re: Questions about waste licence and code.]

2005-05-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
is merely an interesting commentary -- it has less weight than professional advice). On 5/19/05, Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The FAQ is not merely an interesting commentary -- it is the published stance of the FSF, to which its General Counsel refers all inquiries

Re: [WASTE-dev-public] Do not package WASTE! UNAUTHORIZED SOFTWARE [Was: Re: Questions about waste licence and code.]

2005-05-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/19/05, Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://web.archive.org/web/20041130014304/http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html http://web.archive.org/web/20041105024302/http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html Thanks, Roberto. The (moderately) explicit bit I had in mind is in

Re: [WASTE-dev-public] Do not package WASTE! UNAUTHORIZED SOFTWARE [Was: Re: Questions about waste licence and code.]

2005-05-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/19/05, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip Raul's honest and polite response] I've been objecting to the nature of the generalizations you've been making. In other words, I see you asserting that things which are sometimes true must always be true. In the case of the contract

Re:

2005-05-19 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/19/05, Thomas Bushnell BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: An action for copyright infringement, or any similar proceeding under droit d'auteur for instance, will look at the GPL (like any other license agreement) only through the lens

Re: Debian as living system

2005-05-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/18/05, Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really don't care. If somebody can't be bothered to write a mail in comprehensible English, they shouldn't expect anybody else to bother to read it. Most won't even bother to say why they didn't bother to read it. He's lucky that I did,

Re: Debian as living system

2005-05-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/18/05, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, well. But he's still right. This once. Is there some reason why eat a dictionary had to be copied to all of debian-devel in order to inform bluefuture of his linguistic difficulties? (I ask this knowing full well that my own pot has

Re: Debian as living system

2005-05-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/18/05, Christian Perrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure. And this list subscribers deserve some apologies for myself being annoyed enough to be impolite to them and write ununderstandable prose hereeven if obviously on purpose. Well, I enjoyed it immensely, despite my execrable French.

Re: Debian as living system

2005-05-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/18/05, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 01:41:34PM -0700, Michael K. Edwards wrote: On 5/18/05, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, well. But he's still right. This once. Is there some reason why eat a dictionary had to be copied to all

Re: [WASTE-dev-public] Do not package WASTE! UNAUTHORIZED SOFTWARE [Was: Re: Questions about waste licence and code.]

2005-05-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/18/05, Peter Samuelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] I know at least one developer on a prominent open source project who believes otherwise, and claims to be prepared to revoke their license to her code, if they do certain things to piss her off. Presumably this is grounded on the

Re: [WASTE-dev-public] Do not package WASTE! UNAUTHORIZED SOFTWARE [Was: Re: Questions about waste licence and code.]

2005-05-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/18/05, Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Samuelson wrote: [snip] Yes, I'm aware that if it's possible to revoke the GPL, it fails the Tentacles of Evil test, and GPL software would be completely unsuitable for any serious deployment. Note, however, that but it *can't*

Re: GPL and linking

2005-05-11 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/11/05, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [an argument, much of which would make sense in a parallel universe where the GPL is on the law books as 17 USC 666] I am not a lawyer (or a fortiori a judge), so all that I can do to explain why this isn't valid legal reasoning is to point you at

Re: GPL and linking

2005-05-11 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/11/05, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, a court case does not have to be argued that way. No, but if it's to have a prayer of winning, it has to be argued in terms of the law that is actually applicable, not as if the court were obliged to construe the GPL so that every word

Re: GPL and linking

2005-05-11 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Fine. I have been goaded into rebutting this specimen. On 5/11/05, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm disputing an argument which seems to require a number of such fine points. It is difficult for me to raise such disputes without mentioning the the points themselves. However, I

Re: GPL and linking

2005-05-09 Thread Michael K. Edwards
I haven't replied in detail to Batist yet because I am still digesting the hash that Babelfish makes out of his Dutch article. And I don't entirely agree that the GPL is horribly drafted, by comparison with the kind of dog's breakfast that is the typical license contract. In the past, I have

Re: GPL and linking

2005-05-07 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/7/05, Batist Paklons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Note: IALNAP (I am lawyer, not a programmer), arguing solely in Belgian/European context, and english is not my native language.] It's really cool to have an actual lawyer weigh in, even if TINLAIAJ. :-) On 07/05/05, Michael K. Edwards

Re: GPL and linking (was: Urgently need GPL compatible libsnmp5-dev replacement :-()

2005-05-06 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/6/05, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/5/05, Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to spam debian-devel -- and with a long message containing long paragraphs too, horrors! -- in replying to this. Who is sorry? How sorry? Let's assume, for the sake of argument

Re: GPL and linking

2005-05-06 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/6/05, Jeremy Hankins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of this discussion of legal minutia misses (and perhaps supports) what, to my mind, is the most compelling argument for accepting the FSF's position on the subject. The fact is that the question does depend on a lot of legal minutia that

Re: GPL and linking (was: Urgently need GPL compatible libsnmp5-dev replacement :-()

2005-05-06 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/6/05, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/6/05, Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Second sentence in Section 0: The Program, below, refers to any such program or work, and a work based on the Program means either the Program or any derivative work under

Re: GPL and linking

2005-05-06 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/6/05, Jeremy Hankins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You may not be qualified (as I am not) to offer legal advice. But you're certainly qualified to have an opinion. Sure. But it's not relevant to this discussion -- despite what many

Re: GPL and linking (was: Urgently need GPL compatible libsnmp5-dev replacement :-()

2005-05-06 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/6/05, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/6/05, Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/6/05, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe you're objecting to the that is to say phrase, which restates what work based on the Program: means. Attempts to, anyway

Re: GPL and linking (was: Urgently need GPL compatible libsnmp5-dev replacement :-()

2005-05-06 Thread Michael K. Edwards
I don't, except insofar as C - the Program attempts to paraphrase E - the Program (= D). Oh for Pete's sake, (E - the Program) (= D). What a great place for a word wrap. - Michael

Packaging audit trail mechanism (was: Ubuntu and its appropriation of Debian maintainers)

2005-05-05 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/2/05, Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another option would be to leave the source package maintainer the same (to retain proper credit, etc.), but override the binary package maintainer during the build (to reflect that it is a different build, and also display a more appropriate

GPL and linking (was: Urgently need GPL compatible libsnmp5-dev replacement :-()

2005-05-05 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On 5/4/05, Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [This part of the thread belongs on -legal] Sorry to spam debian-devel -- and with a long message containing long paragraphs too, horrors! -- in replying to this. But that's where this discussion is actually happening now, and I'm afraid I

Re: How to show $arch releaseability (was: Re: How to define a release architecture)

2005-03-22 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:02:47 +0100, David Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] As Steve mentioned in another mail[1], one of the points where arches offload work onto the release team is 3) chasing down, or just waiting on (which means, taking time to poll the package's status to find out

Re: How to show $arch releaseability (was: Re: How to define a release architecture)

2005-03-22 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 04:58:33 -0800, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eh, not particularly. This inspection can be done on any machine, and there's no reason not to just use the fastest one available to you (whether that's by CPU, or network); what's needed here is to first identify

Re: How to show $arch releaseability (was: Re: How to define a release architecture)

2005-03-22 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:15:13 +0100, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Except that arm doesn't *have* a large number of slow autobuilders, working in parallel. They have four, and are having problems keeping up right now. Precisely. And four is already pushing the point of

Re: How to show $arch releaseability

2005-03-22 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:07:32 +0100, Simon Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That sounds more like a case of too-loose build-dependencies to me rather than architecture specific problems. This can also hit i386, the fact that it hit ARM this time is sheer coincidence. Should the uim maintainer

Re: Bits (Nybbles?) from the Vancouver release team meeting

2005-03-22 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:14:17 +0100, Adrian Bunk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Mar 21, 2005 at 06:50:22PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: ... The top three things I've spent release management time on that I shouldn't have had to are, in no discernable order: 1) processing new RC bug

Re: The 98% and N=2 criteria

2005-03-21 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:02:39 +0100, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Uh. Most porting bugs that require attention fall in one of the following areas: * Toolchain problems (Internal Compiler Errors, mostly) * Mistakes made by the packager. Quite easy to fix, usually. * Incorrect

Re: Bits (Nybbles?) from the Vancouver release team meeting

2005-03-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
AJ's categorization has some traction, but I think it's a somewhat short-term perspective. Just because a full Debian doesn't usually fit today's embedded footprint doesn't mean it won't fit tomorrow's, and in the meantime Debian's toolchain, kernel, and initrd-tools are probably the best

Re: Bits (Nybbles?) from the Vancouver release team meeting

2005-03-18 Thread Michael K. Edwards
AJ's categorization has some traction, but I think it's a somewhat short-term perspective. Just because a full Debian doesn't usually fit today's embedded footprint doesn't mean it won't fit tomorrow's, and in the meantime Debian's toolchain, kernel, and initrd-tools are probably the best

Re: rudeness in general

2005-01-12 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:09:18 +0100, Helmut Wollmersdorfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] My few attempts to step into debian as a contributor ended after some hours of senseless discussions or waste of time against unnecessary barriers. Compared against average OSS, or OSS where I contribute,

Re: Why does Debian distributed firmware not need to be Depends: upon? [was Re: LCC and blobs]

2005-01-10 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 22:01:52 -0800, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is not enough to say that you *could* create free firmware files. As a user of xpdf, I can unequivocally say that there are pdfs that I have full rights to, because *I created them*. I cannot say that about firmware

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Hopefully this continues to be interesting to debian-devel readers. Perhaps replies should go to debian-legal; GMail doesn't seem to let me set Followup-To, but feel free to do so if you think best. I have copied Eben Moglen (General Counsel to the FSF) at Bruce's suggestion. Mr. Moglen, I am

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On re-reading the sequence of events, it looks like I was the one who switched the context of the hypothetical reproducible build tools obligation from GPL to LGPL. Bruce, my apologies for implying that you were the one who switched contexts. So we seem to agree that the support for this

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
I'll try to address the Specht case and summarize, and we can call this an end to the discussion if that's what you want. Bruce You can read a case on the nature of consent such as Specht v. Netscape, Bruce which might convince you that we don't necessarily get sufficient consent on Bruce the

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-16 Thread Michael K. Edwards
me binutils and modutils both depend on it. Bruce On flex? No. At least not in unstable. sorry, I meant to write Build-Depend. me Or is the LCC proposing to standardize on a set of binaries without me specifying the toolchain that's used to reproduce them? Bruce Linking and calling conventions

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-16 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:25:38 +0100, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Well, frankly, I don't care what [ISVs] think is 'viable'. I do care. Apparently some ISVs think a common binary core is viable. I think they might change their minds if the argument against golden binaries is

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-16 Thread Michael K. Edwards
This probably belongs on debian-legal, but let's go one more round on debian-devel given the scope of the LCC's potential impact on Debian. (Personally, I'm more interested in the question of whether agreeing to consecrate particular binaries contravenes a distro's commitment to the Four Freedoms

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-15 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Bruce Well, please don't tell this to all of the people who we are attempting to get to use Linux as the core of their products. core (software architecture) != core (customer value). Also, please make sure to tell the upstream maintainers that we aren't going to use their code any longer,

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-15 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Whoops, I guess that's what I get for trying to be concise for once. I'll try again. Bruce Well, please don't tell this [i. e., outsourcing your core is a bad idea] Bruce to all of the people who we are attempting to get to use Linux Bruce as the core of their products. me core (software

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-15 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Bruce Fortunately, flex isn't in the problem space. If you stick to what Bruce version of libc, etc., it'll make more sense. Flex isn't in the problem space if we're talking core ABIs. But it certainly is if we're talking core implementations, as binutils and modutils both depend on it. Or is

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-14 Thread Michael K. Edwards
me Ian Murdock (quotes out of order) If the LSB only attempts to certify things that haven't forked, then it's a no-op. Well, that's not quite fair; I have found it useful to bootstrap a porting effort using lsb-rpm. But for it to be a software operating environment and not just a

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-09 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Name changes are a superficial design flaw that obscures the fundamental design flaw in this proposal -- sharing binaries between Linux distributions is a bad idea to begin with. Fixing ABI forks, and articulating best known practices about managing ABI evolution going forward, that's a good

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-09 Thread Michael K. Edwards
If ISVs want exactly the same, they are free to install a chroot environment containing the binaries they certify against and to supply a kernel that they expect their customers to use. That's the approach I've had to take when bundling third-party binaries built by people who were under the

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-09 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:20:00 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: libfoo 1.7 fixes a non-security bug in v1.6. bar segfaults when running libfoo 1.6. But libfoo 1.6 is in Sarge, and the bug won't be fixed because it's not a security bug. Having a formal GNU/Linux Distro Test Kit

Re: Ubuntu discussion at planet.debian.org

2004-10-25 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Steve Langasek It is not correct. At the time testing freezes for sarge, there are likely to be many packages in unstable which either have no version in testing, or have older versions in testing. The list of such packages is always visible at

Re: Ubuntu discussion at planet.debian.org

2004-10-24 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:04:41 +0200, Jérôme Marant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As soon as testing is strictly equal to unstable regarding package versions, testing is roughly ready for release. I think this observation is acute -- as applied to the _current_ testing mechanism. Personally, I view

Accepted cryptokit 1.2-1 (i386 source)

2004-01-28 Thread Michael K. Edwards
] Changed-By: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: libcryptokit-ocaml - cryptographic algorithm library for OCaml - runtime libcryptokit-ocaml-dev - cryptographic algorithm library for OCaml - development Closes: 203256 Changes: cryptokit (1.2-1) unstable; urgency=low . * First

Accepted libimager-perl 0.42-1 (powerpc source)

2004-01-28 Thread Michael K. Edwards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 01:44:53 -0800 Source: libimager-perl Binary: libimager-perl Architecture: source powerpc Version: 0.42-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Michael K

Accepted libobject-multitype-perl 0.04-1 (all source)

2004-01-28 Thread Michael K. Edwards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:21:28 -0800 Source: libobject-multitype-perl Binary: libobject-multitype-perl Architecture: source all Version: 0.04-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed

Accepted libxml-smart-perl 1.5-1 (all source)

2004-01-28 Thread Michael K. Edwards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:36:14 -0800 Source: libxml-smart-perl Binary: libxml-smart-perl Architecture: source all Version: 1.5-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Michael K

Accepted numerix 0.19-1 (i386 source all)

2004-01-28 Thread Michael K. Edwards
OCaml Maintainers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: libcnumx0 - Numerix big integer library for C - runtime libcnumx0-dev - Numerix big integer library for C - runtime libnumerix-ocaml - Numerix big integer library for OCaml - runtime libnumerix

Accepted libxml-sax-writer-perl 0.44-3 (all source)

2004-01-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:41:30 -0800 Source: libxml-sax-writer-perl Binary: libxml-sax-writer-perl Architecture: source all Version: 0.44-3 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed

Accepted libxml-libxml-perl 1.56-6 (powerpc source)

2004-01-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:28:59 -0800 Source: libxml-libxml-perl Binary: libxml-libxml-perl Architecture: source powerpc Version: 1.56-6 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed

Accepted libghttp 1.0.9-15 (powerpc source)

2004-01-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:18:25 -0800 Source: libghttp Binary: libghttp1 libghttp-dev Architecture: source powerpc Version: 1.0.9-15 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Michael K

Accepted libxml-filter-xslt-perl 0.03-4 (all source)

2004-01-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:50:51 -0800 Source: libxml-filter-xslt-perl Binary: libxml-filter-xslt-perl Architecture: source all Version: 0.03-4 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed

Accepted libxml-libxslt-perl 1.53-4 (powerpc source)

2004-01-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:44:24 -0800 Source: libxml-libxslt-perl Binary: libxml-libxslt-perl Architecture: source powerpc Version: 1.53-4 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed

Accepted libhttp-ghttp-perl 1.07-7 (powerpc source)

2004-01-20 Thread Michael K. Edwards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:58:42 -0800 Source: libhttp-ghttp-perl Binary: libhttp-ghttp-perl Architecture: source powerpc Version: 1.07-7 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed

Accepted libxml-libxml-perl 1.56-4 (i386 source)

2003-12-31 Thread Michael K. Edwards (in Debian context)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:21:18 -0800 Source: libxml-libxml-perl Binary: libxml-libxml-perl Architecture: source i386 Version: 1.56-4 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Michael K. Edwards (in Debian context) [EMAIL PROTECTED

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