On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 08:27:59 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:25:47PM +, Felipe Sateler wrote:
Another way to look at it is the number of maintainers, as recorded in
the Packages and Sources files. I've done a bit of scripting and came
with these numbers:
Did
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:25:47PM +, Felipe Sateler wrote:
Another way to look at it is the number of maintainers, as recorded in
the Packages and Sources files. I've done a bit of scripting and came
with these numbers:
Did you look only at Maintainer, or also at Uploaders? In the
Hi,
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 08:10:54PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
But they're not as good at the things that large pools of
volunteers are good at, like maintaining lots of packages that are of
interest to small groups of people.
I'm following the example of others by cherry picking from
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 02:53:43AM +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
Then again,... I wonder why Ubuntu exists, if they allegedly anyway want
their changes into Debian.
And still sounds like a fork in a respect that forks usually don't
change everything.
But I mean that discussion
On Friday 19 October 2012 00:53:43 Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
Another reason could be, that people have problems with the BTS.
Don't get me wrong, I personally like it a lot... and I wouldn't want to
have e.g. launchpad (if at all,... I'm quite a bugzilla fan)... but
especially for
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 01:26:56PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
generalisation of application stores. How can we attract the creative people
who entered the field of software development and distribution on Android or
iOS ?
Worse, because of the fragmentation of the « Linux » landscape, if
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 07:33:28PM +0200, Enrico Zini wrote:
We won't attract the people you're looking at, until we can actually
come up with a standard, cross-distro toolchain that:
- is actually useful to build games, UIs, whatever you want people to
build;
- provides an API[1] that
Le dimanche, 21 octobre 2012 19.33:28, Enrico Zini a écrit :
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 01:26:56PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
generalisation of application stores. How can we attract the creative
people who entered the field of software development and distribution on
Android or iOS ?
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 10:33:36PM +0200, Didier Raboud wrote:
Isn't that what LSB is meant to provide?
I guess it is, but as far as I understand, it kind of fails on the point
is actually widely adopted by the community. Unfortunately.
Besides that is suffers from another type of
On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 19:18:07 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
As I agree with Christian that the most important factor is our ability
to attract contributors, I've tried to gather data about the number of
people that decide to join Debian per year. The easiest data to found
was those about
Quoting Thomas Preud'homme (robo...@debian.org):
This is sometimes hidden by the incredible work and investment of
several people in the project (yes, that's probably mean whoever is
reading this).
I don't think it's mean to recognize the amazing work some people do. At
least
I don't
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 09:40:12AM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
I will take this last sentence from Russ' mail to give out my own
feeling about these issues.
Thanks for this in-depth view on your feeling on this matter. I've been
following with interest your blog posts on the decline of
On Thu, 2012-10-18 at 20:10 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
I'm not seeing any signs that Ubuntu actually wants to take over what
Debian is the best at, which is maintaining a very broad range of packages
at high quality. Notice the number of folks who start doing Debian
packaging because they
Le Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 09:40:12AM +0200, Christian PERRIER a écrit :
But, still, yes, I feel we are in danger in some way. That may sound alarming
(death of Debian predicted, film at 11), but, really, getting new
blood is important for usif we don't want to shrink into a club of
old
Quoting Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org):
distribution that make it more popular. But, unlike commercial
distributions, we don't *have* to be popular to succeed. We have a much
broader range of successful outcomes than a business that has to make
money.
I will take this last sentence from
Le vendredi 19 octobre 2012 09:40:12, Christian PERRIER a écrit :
Greetings Christian,
First, let me take advantage of this mail to thank you for your tireless work
on localization.
Nowadays, would someone bet a coin that the same is happening? I would
not. In my daily job, I see students
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 03:04:45AM +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
On Wed, 2012-10-17 at 17:43 +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
Ah, well, I think you misunderstood me here. What I meant is that ubuntu
is gaining ground on things like Windows and MacOS. I didn't mean to
refer to non-free
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:40 AM, Christian PERRIER bubu...@debian.org wrote:
For sure, this kind of decline is not that visible. We still have
new contributors, we still manage to do releases, we still have an
ever growing number of packages. But, we have less bug reports. We have
partly
[Kelly Clowers]
But I basically never report bugs. I have used Sid for years, and in
fact I often don't notice bugs in my personal workflow (maybe if I
can think of myself as a user? I notice end-user-impacting bugs in
other areas). If someone comes over and sees me working the might
say,
I will fill your bugreports for $1.99 per bug :-)
2012/10/19 Peter Samuelson pe...@p12n.org:
[Kelly Clowers]
But I basically never report bugs. I have used Sid for years, and in
fact I often don't notice bugs in my personal workflow (maybe if I
can think of myself as a user? I notice
On Sun, 2012-10-14 at 22:01 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Except it's not, because that's not what Ubuntu does. Most of the
packages are imported into Ubuntu unmodified. Among those that are
modified, most of the modifications are exactly the minor changes that
Debian makes to upstream, and
On Mon, 2012-10-15 at 08:11 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
Do you remember the sorry state of, for instance hotplugging of devices
and the utterly poor integration with desktops back in 2004 when Ubuntu
first started? It was a _huge_ step forward.
I didn't say everything was Ubuntu made or
On Wed, 2012-10-17 at 17:43 +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
Making opensource more open for proprietary stuff is sometimes simply
necessary... but this may ultimately also become a big threat for the
free software world, namely then when that non-free stuff plays such an
important role that
Christoph Anton Mitterer cales...@scientia.net writes:
And still sounds like a fork in a respect that forks usually don't
change everything.
I think of a fork as a permanent division of the code base, with possibly
some importing of code back and forth but with major development happening
On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 02:46:18 +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer
cales...@scientia.net wrote:
First declining bug numbers are not necessarily a problem, because it
could just mean that we're getting better and better, or that more and
more upstream issues are reported upstream (which would be a good
On Wed, 2012-10-17 at 08:58 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 02:46:18 +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer
cales...@scientia.net wrote:
First declining bug numbers are not necessarily a problem, because it
could just mean that we're getting better and better, or that more and
more
On 2012-10-17, Svante Signell svante.sign...@telia.com wrote:
Even some bugs _with_ patches are treated the same way or kept open and
never acted on. Shouldn't the number of open bugs be decreasing with
time, not being constant or increasing as is the case for some packages?
in many cases, the
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 03:25:21AM +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
On Sat, 2012-10-13 at 20:35 +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
[...]
If anything, Ubuntu is
gaining ground on non-free software. You can't be angry about that.
That's a tricky question... ask yourself what RMS would
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:53:01 + (UTC), Sune Vuorela
nos...@vuorela.dk wrote:
On 2012-10-17, Svante Signell svante.sign...@telia.com wrote:
Even some bugs _with_ patches are treated the same way or kept open and
never acted on. Shouldn't the number of open bugs be decreasing with
time, not
]] Christoph Anton Mitterer
[...]
In the case of *buntu... well to be honest I don't really see a reason
unless someone wanted to create a company behind his distro, which
wasn't possible with Debian.
Do you remember the sorry state of, for instance hotplugging of devices
and the utterly
On Sat, 2012-10-13 at 20:35 +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
No. However, Debian is an upstream to many other distributions, just as
upstream developers are to us.
Don't think that's true.
When Debian takes software from upstreams, it's majorly a case of making
a collection (of course with
Christoph Anton Mitterer cales...@scientia.net writes:
When Debian takes software from upstreams, it's majorly a case of making
a collection (of course with adaptions).
When a derivative take Debian, it's - compared to single software - more
like forking it.
Except it's not, because that's
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 10:13:51PM +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 13:40 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
I wonder: did upstream developers start to worry when the number of bugs
report they received *directly* started to decrease, due to Debian
distributing
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 09:45:58PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
Marco Nenciarini mnen...@debian.org writes:
I've seen recently several company I'm working with getting away from
Debian in favor of Ubuntu because they have a LTS version. However I
don't know if this is a general trend.
I
On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 21:45 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
IMHO, supporting an OS release for only 3 years is not long enough.
I think that such very-long-term security support is quite an illusion.
Of course, problems found get then back-ported,... but software changes
so rapidly while usually
On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 13:40 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
I wonder: did upstream developers start to worry when the number of bugs
report they received *directly* started to decrease, due to Debian
distributing their software?
Well but that's a different situation isn't it? I mean Debian
Le Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:47:30AM +0300, Riku Voipio a écrit :
While people want LTS, they still want latest version of various apps
they use (browser, new gcc and python for some inhouse development, etc),
as well as support for all the new hardware they buy. Solving these two
goals at the
Hi.
Some days ago Christian reported[0] about #69 with the feeling that
bug report numbers in Debian were declining, which Don’s post[1] later
seemingly confirmed.
I wondered myself whether this is a problem for Debian and if so, what
we can do against it?
First declining bug numbers are
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 2:46 AM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
cales...@scientia.net wrote:
Some days ago Christian reported[0] about #69 with the feeling that
bug report numbers in Debian were declining, which Don’s post[1] later
seemingly confirmed.
I believe the script is incorrect. It does
On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 09:15 +0200, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
I believe the script is incorrect. It does not count ubuntu bugs that
gets fixed in debian, without ever being referenced in debian BTS...
Well but it's up to interpretation, whether that wouldn't be a worrying
sign, too. I mean that
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
Well but it's up to interpretation, whether that wouldn't be a worrying
sign, too. I mean that bugs are fixed rather via Ubuntu.
Where bugs are reported doesn't matter, as long as they get fixed.
Personally I look at the bug
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:51:50AM +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 09:15 +0200, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
I believe the script is incorrect. It does not count ubuntu bugs that
gets fixed in debian, without ever being referenced in debian BTS...
Well but it's up to
Il giorno gio, 11/10/2012 alle 02.46 +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer ha
scritto:
On the other hand, some worries are there that this could imply some
decline in Debian itself.
Well I still think Debian is the best distro out there for most (if not
all cases), even though I'd like to see it
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Le 11/10/2012 13:40, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit :
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:51:50AM +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer
wrote:
On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 09:15 +0200, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
I believe the script is incorrect. It does not count ubuntu
]] Thibaut Paumard
Users who get software through the Debian packages are still 100%
users of said software.
This might be your impression. It does not at all match my impression.
Quite a few upstreams thinks Debian are working contrary to their design
and their goals and are actively
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Le 11/10/2012 17:29, Tollef Fog Heen a écrit :
]] Thibaut Paumard
Users who get software through the Debian packages are still
100% users of said software.
This might be your impression. It does not at all match my
impression.
Quite a
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 05:29:51PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
This might be your impression. It does not at all match my impression.
Quite a few upstreams thinks Debian are working contrary to their design
and their goals and are actively hindering adoption of their software.
If you're
]] Steve Langasek
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 05:29:51PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
This might be your impression. It does not at all match my impression.
Quite a few upstreams thinks Debian are working contrary to their
design and their goals and are actively hindering adoption of
Marco Nenciarini mnen...@debian.org writes:
Il giorno gio, 11/10/2012 alle 02.46 +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer ha
scritto:
On the other hand, some worries are there that this could imply some
decline in Debian itself.
Well I still think Debian is the best distro out there for most (if
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 09:45:58PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
Marco Nenciarini mnen...@debian.org writes:
Il giorno gio, 11/10/2012 alle 02.46 +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer ha
scritto:
On the other hand, some worries are there that this could imply some
decline in Debian itself.
Am Donnerstag, den 11.10.2012, 16:14 -0400 schrieb Paul Tagliamonte:
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 09:45:58PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
Marco Nenciarini mnen...@debian.org writes:
Il giorno gio, 11/10/2012 alle 02.46 +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer ha
scritto:
On the other hand,
Simon Josefsson si...@josefsson.org writes:
Marco Nenciarini mnen...@debian.org writes:
I've seen recently several company I'm working with getting away from
Debian in favor of Ubuntu because they have a LTS version. However I
don't know if this is a general trend.
I can confirm the trend
❦ 11 octobre 2012 20:26 CEST, Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org :
Quite a few upstreams thinks Debian are working contrary to their design
and their goals and are actively hindering adoption of their software.
If you're interested in examples, just take a look at how rubygems was
handled in
❦ 11 octobre 2012 22:33 CEST, Benjamin Drung bdr...@debian.org :
I can confirm the trend for a couple of organisations. The primary
reason that I identified was the retirement of security support for
Lenny and that Lenny packages are removed from many Debian mirrors which
made it
Am Freitag, den 12.10.2012, 00:00 +0200 schrieb Vincent Bernat:
❦ 11 octobre 2012 22:33 CEST, Benjamin Drung bdr...@debian.org :
I can confirm the trend for a couple of organisations. The primary
reason that I identified was the retirement of security support for
Lenny and that Lenny
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:57:24PM +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote:
❦ 11 octobre 2012 20:26 CEST, Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org :
Quite a few upstreams thinks Debian are working contrary to their design
and their goals and are actively hindering adoption of their software.
If you're
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Simon Josefsson wrote:
I can confirm the trend for a couple of organisations. The primary
reason that I identified was the retirement of security support for
Lenny and that Lenny packages are removed from many Debian mirrors which
made it difficult to use
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