Hi,
On Thu, 2008-12-18 at 23:04 +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad
behaviour in other forums also hurts the project.
I think that flame-war
Quoting Steve McIntyre st...@einval.com:
[snip]
Here's the full body of the message I sent to Sam. He contacted me
asking for my thoughts and I wrote the following:
===
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 08:53:24AM +1100, Sam Varghese
Hi, people. I'm not a DD here, so let that colour your opinions of
what I will say however it will.
I am, however, deeply interested in Debian and have done wee bits of
coding for it in the past, and keep meaning to do so more for it.
It is an unfortunate situation that often people when they're
On Friday 19 December 2008 19:56, Johannes Wiedersich
johan...@physik.blm.tu-muenchen.de wrote:
What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
that the French appear so arrogant as to think what happened on a world
wide announcement is fine, just because the French
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 08:31:15PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:11:25AM +0100, Thomas Weber wrote:
No, the problem is that certain of our French developers *think* that the
rest of the world just doesn't understand their French humor and that
something has been
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 07:07:35PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
On Friday 19 December 2008 19:56, Johannes Wiedersich
johan...@physik.blm.tu-muenchen.de wrote:
What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
that the French appear so arrogant as to think what
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 09:12:46AM +0100, Thomas Weber wrote:
Or do you need to let of some steam here, because such behaviour is
unacceptable on Ubuntu lists?
There's no ubuntu-legal list infested with leeches who think it's their
business to tell Ubuntu how to interpret its own
Eduard Bloch e...@gmx.de (18/12/2008):
* Russell Coker [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 11:04:24PM]:
http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29t=7991
I would like to know what exactly Steve told them. The major tone WRT
OSS on that page seems to be pretty harsh, close to FUD and trolling.
So how did
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Romain Beauxis wrote:
Le Friday 19 December 2008 01:04:05 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
Joss, it is disappointing that after all that time since your faux pas
[1], you still seem to fail to understand that what might be acceptable
within
Am Donnerstag, den 18.12.2008, 22:51 -0800 schrieb Steve Langasek:
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:04:05AM +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
I am really speechless The French seem to have a completely
different understanding of the English language used in all these
matters than almost every
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
that the French appear so arrogant as to think what happened on a world
wide announcement is fine, just because the French think it is fine.
the French = FAIL; thanks.
--
Le Friday 19 December 2008 09:56:21 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
that the French appear so arrogant as to think what happened on a world
wide announcement is fine, just because the French think it is fine.
I you
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Loïc Minier wrote:
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
that the French appear so arrogant as to think what happened on a world
wide announcement is fine, just
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Romain Beauxis wrote:
I start a discussion trying to explain how misunderstanding can happen and it
ends up claiming that french are arogant.
I am sorry, if I misunderstood your point as defending Joss's
announcement, while you were just trying to
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 05:00:47AM +0100, Harald Braumann wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:04:05 +0100
I am really speechless The French seem to have a completely
different understanding of the English language used in all these
matters than almost every one else in the world.
Well, the
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org wrote:
Homosexuality can be an *accusation* ‽
It still is in some countries. That's why mature people don't play
with that openly in international projects.
Perhaps you didn't know.
cheers,
martin
--
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 10:01 -0200, Martin Langhoff a écrit :
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org wrote:
Homosexuality can be an *accusation* ‽
It still is in some countries. That's why mature people don't play
with that openly in international
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 13:30 +0100, Olivier Berger a écrit :
For instance see our Secretaire d'Etat's declaration at :
http://gayswithoutborders.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/france-rama-yade-will-appeal-at-the-united-nations-for-the-universal-decriminalisation-of-homosexuality/
OK, OK,
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
I am sorry. I meant 'some French'. It was not my intention to give the
impression that this applies to all the French. Please accept my apologies.
We're almost all humans, thanks for retracting. :-)
--
Loïc Minier
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org wrote:
Our country is very far from exempt of human rights violations. Those
trying to frame the current discussion in terms of cultures or countries
are forgetting that every culture and country has its share of
intolerant
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 11:39 -0200, Martin Langhoff a écrit :
The mission of Debian is not spot the bigot. Debian embraces people
of many beliefs, customs and ways of life under one shared belief --
about an OS.
Precisely. And in such a project, you need to work together with people
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 11:39 -0200, Martin Langhoff a écrit :
The mission of Debian is not spot the bigot. Debian embraces people
of many beliefs, customs and ways of life under one shared belief --
about an OS.
Precisely. And in such
Dear Norbert,
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do so, but somewhere
else.
Please use gender-neutral language when addressing a diverse audience.
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 06:13:57PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
Dear Norbert,
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do so, but somewhere
else.
Agustin Martin agmar...@debian.org writes:
For the record, a similar expression also exists in Spanish, either with
a broomstick or with an umbrella. Both ends are used in the
expression. No sexual connotation implied at all.
World is not that different,
For the record, the same is true in
On Fr, 19 Dez 2008, Michael Banck wrote:
Dear Norbert,
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do so, but somewhere
else.
Please use
On Fri, Dec 19 2008, Russ Allbery wrote:
Agustin Martin agmar...@debian.org writes:
For the record, a similar expression also exists in Spanish, either with
a broomstick or with an umbrella. Both ends are used in the
expression. No sexual connotation implied at all.
World is not that
On Fri, Dec 19 2008, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 11:39 -0200, Martin Langhoff a écrit :
The mission of Debian is not spot the bigot. Debian embraces people
of many beliefs, customs and ways of life under one shared
Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org writes:
On Fri, Dec 19 2008, Russ Allbery wrote:
For the record, the same is true in American English (the colloquial
phrase being a stick up your ass and regularly used without any sexual
connotation whatsoever). I don't know if Russell's objections are
#include hallo.h
* Michael Banck [Fri, Dec 19 2008, 06:13:57PM]:
Dear Norbert,
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do so, but somewhere
else.
#include hallo.h
* Cyril Brulebois [Fri, Dec 19 2008, 09:35:24AM]:
Eduard Bloch e...@gmx.de (18/12/2008):
* Russell Coker [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 11:04:24PM]:
http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29t=7991
I would like to know what exactly Steve told them. The major tone WRT
OSS on
On 12/19/08 17:18, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Fri, Dec 19 2008, Russ Allbery wrote:
Agustin Martin agmar...@debian.org writes:
For the record, a similar expression also exists in Spanish, either with
a broomstick or with an umbrella. Both ends are used in the
expression. No sexual
On 12/19/08 17:47, Eduard Bloch wrote:
#include hallo.h
* Michael Banck [Fri, Dec 19 2008, 06:13:57PM]:
Dear Norbert,
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit,
Eduard wrote:
#include hallo.h
* Russell Coker [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 11:04:24PM]:
http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29t=7991
From the above news article:
# Debian Project Leader Steve McIntyre told iTWire that after Mouette's
abuse
I would like to know what exactly Steve told them.
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:11:25AM +0100, Thomas Weber wrote:
No, the problem is that certain of our French developers *think* that the
rest of the world just doesn't understand their French humor and that
something has been lost in translation.
When the reality is that we understand it
http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29t=7991
From the above news article:
# Debian Project Leader Steve McIntyre told iTWire that after Mouette's abuse
# of the ability to post to the d-d-a mailing list, I asked our mailing list
# administrators to remove that privilege for in future.
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:04:24PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
As the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, I believe that such posts do
not belong on Planet Debian - which is for many people the public face of
Debian.
To be clear, this means that as the Debian culture is opposed to
Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 23:04 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit :
The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad
behaviour in other forums also hurts the project.
What do you want to say,
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:04:24PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
As the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, I believe that such posts do
not belong on Planet Debian
This sounds like an oxymoron to me.
FWIW, I'm way more annoyed by _frequent_ OT blog posts totally
unrelated to Debian on
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 13:04:24 Russell Coker, vous avez écrit :
The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian,
bad behaviour in other forums also hurts the project.
I have that feeling
* Russell Coker:
The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
Debian project.
I don't think it's fair to hold Josselin responsible for what that
particular author writes, no matter what you think of his actions.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote:
Hi,
them. Your implicit assumption that Planet Debian conveys an
official message to our community is totally unsound IMO. We have
d-d-a for our official message (yes, Joss abused that, and has been
Official announcements to the outside world
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 02:34:09PM +0100, Julien BLACHE wrote:
them. Your implicit assumption that Planet Debian conveys an
official message to our community is totally unsound IMO. We have
d-d-a for our official message (yes, Joss abused that, and has been
Official announcements to the
Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote:
Hi,
Official announcements to the outside world actually appear in
debian-announce; debian-devel-announce is a developer list.
You are a bit picky, you know? :-)
I don't think so; setting the record straight isn't being picky :)
Yes: I know the
On 12/18/08 06:26, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 23:04 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit :
The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad
behaviour in other forums also
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 03:15:38PM +0100, Julien BLACHE wrote:
Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote:
Hi,
Official announcements to the outside world actually appear in
debian-announce; debian-devel-announce is a developer list.
You are a bit picky, you know? :-)
I don't think
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 15:45:05 Michael Banck, vous avez écrit :
I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to
qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by
developers.
Wrong. While in /theory/ it might be for developers, in /practise/,
d-d-a is
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 03:53:09PM +0100, Romain Beauxis wrote:
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 15:45:05 Michael Banck, vous avez écrit :
I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to
qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by
developers.
Wrong. While
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Julien BLACHE wrote:
I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to
qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by
developers. I'm not sure what's official in there. I'd tend to say
anything official is project
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008, Russell Coker wrote:
He has stated that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems
to be the censorship of people who disagree with him by continually
offending them until they stop disagreeing.
Come on, you're defacing reality and Josselin's statements...
What
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:45:07PM +0100, Mohammed Adnène Trojette wrote:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008, Russell Coker wrote:
He has stated that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems
to be the censorship of people who disagree with him by continually
offending them until they stop
Michael Banck mba...@debian.org wrote:
Like it or not, messages to d-d-a are frequently forwarded verbatim to
LWN and other major IT-centered news sources. This happen much less
Pretty much everything and anything ends up there, so that's hardly a
criterion for relevance or whatever.
JB.
--
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 16:37:38 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
Julien BLACHE wrote:
I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to
qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by
developers. I'm not sure what's official in there. I'd tend to say
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Romain Beauxis wrote:
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 16:37:38 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
The point is it was an 'announcement' and it
was perceived as inappropriate (not only OT) by many.
I fully disagree.
Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 17:49 +0100, Romain Beauxis a écrit :
I eat kittens at breakfast
How do you cook them?
I like European cats a lot, but I heard the Siamese meat is more tender.
Do you have some advice?
--
.''`.
: :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
Hi,
kindergarten and western civilisation indeed would be a good idea.
To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. Trolling on
purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in Debian
nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour.
regards,
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 18:21:48 Holger Levsen, vous avez écrit :
To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. Trolling
on purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in
Debian nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour.
You can't be serious.
Holger Levsen hol...@layer-acht.org (18/12/2008):
To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now.
OOH, that's the season, maybe?
Trolling on purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want
to see in Debian nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour.
Just for
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 18:08:00 Josselin Mouette, vous avez écrit :
Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 17:49 +0100, Romain Beauxis a écrit :
I eat kittens at breakfast
How do you cook them?
I like European cats a lot, but I heard the Siamese meat is more tender.
Do you have some advice?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote:
Manners, Josselin, and discretion. There are some places where it's just
not appropriate to blurt out whatever you're thinking.
+10 from here.
Of course, Josselin thinks and jokes differently from others, as it's
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 19:12:29 Martin Langhoff, vous avez écrit :
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote:
Manners, Josselin, and discretion. There are some places where it's just
not appropriate to blurt out whatever you're thinking.
+10 from here.
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 08:28:21PM +0100, Romain Beauxis wrote:
And if the jokes don't make you laugh, just ignore them.
Which of course would be easier to do if the jokes were not told in the
first place. There's a time and place for everything, it's a shame
that a few seem to think that this
On Friday 19 December 2008 06:28, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org wrote:
The initial proposition of this thread was this idea of code of conduct..
I don't like it either. If you believe someone is being too rude, why
don't you simply tell it to him, in public or in private ?
(I answer since there is a question adressed..)
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 22:01:17 Russell Coker, vous avez écrit :
On Friday 19 December 2008 06:28, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org
wrote:
The initial proposition of this thread was this idea of code of conduct..
I don't like it
#include hallo.h
* Russell Coker [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 11:04:24PM]:
http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29t=7991
From the above news article:
# Debian Project Leader Steve McIntyre told iTWire that after Mouette's abuse
I would like to know what exactly Steve told them. The major tone WRT
On Friday 19 December 2008 08:53, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org wrote:
http://np237.livejournal.com/20741.html
That method was attempted, the response from Josselin was I will go on
shocking these people, along with several references to sodomy with a
broomstick and a link to a
On 2008-12-18, Russell Coker russ...@coker.com.au wrote:
culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation
of homosexuality.
Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to
offend.
I think you are seeing ghosts or just being prejudistic
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:28:09PM +, Russell Coker wrote:
On Friday 19 December 2008 08:53, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org wrote:
Being french too, I can assure you that pretending that someone has a
broomstick in its ass is a very common expression for someone who it too
much
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 09:28 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit :
The expression broomstick in their arse is also common in Australian
culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation
of homosexuality.
Homosexuality can be an *accusation* ‽
The creation of a
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 23:46:25 Josselin Mouette, vous avez écrit :
So, if I follow you:
leather - homosexuality
homosexuality - offense
And by saying both of these, you dare say that I am offensive ‽
Well, you could also argue that in intend to offend means present
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008, Russell Coker wrote:
The expression broomstick in their arse is also common in Australian
culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation
of homosexuality.
However Josselin made it quite clear that he was not using the term as a
Pierre Habouzit wrote:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:28:09PM +, Russell Coker wrote:
The creation of a fake picture of Manoj wearing leather makes it clear that
Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to
offend.
I'm really speechless... I mean, even from you
On Do, 18 Dez 2008, Russell Coker wrote:
The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad
behaviour in other forums also hurts the project.
Oh bummer. Normally I never write something in
On Friday 19 December 2008 10:01, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org wrote:
Well, you could also argue that in intend to offend means present things
as if it was offensent, much like when calling someone a geek is meant as
an insult...
Exactly.
Also I had a brief off-list discussion with
Le Friday 19 December 2008 01:04:05 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
Joss, it is disappointing that after all that time since your faux pas
[1], you still seem to fail to understand that what might be acceptable
within one culture (I don't speak or understand 'French') will not
On Dec 18, Russell Coker russ...@coker.com.au wrote:
He has stated
that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems to be the censorship
of people who disagree with him by continually offending them until they stop
disagreeing.
I am quite sure that this is not a new meaning of
On Dec 18, Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote:
FWIW, I'm way more annoyed by _frequent_ OT blog posts totally
unrelated to Debian on Planet Debian (even though I enjoy _sporadic_
OTs) than by Joss posts.
Me too! I really do not feel the need to learn how much the personal
life of other
On Dec 18, Russell Coker russ...@coker.com.au wrote:
The Ubuntu community includes many former and current members of the Debian
community. It seems that they don't have a problem with the code of conduct.
Why do you think that a code of conduct which works well for Ubuntu would
fail for
On Dec 18, Holger Levsen hol...@layer-acht.org wrote:
To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. Trolling on
purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in Debian
nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour.
Come on... We had a DPL who hosted
Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Dec 18, Russell Coker russ...@coker.com.au wrote:
The Ubuntu community includes many former and current members of the Debian
community. It seems that they don't have a problem with the code of conduct.
Why do you think that a code of conduct which works well for
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:04:05 +0100
Johannes Wiedersich jow...@googlemail.com wrote:
Pierre Habouzit wrote:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:28:09PM +, Russell Coker wrote:
The creation of a fake picture of Manoj wearing leather makes it
clear that Joss was intending to make an insinuation of
Simon Huggins wrote:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:04:24PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
As the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, I believe that such posts do
not belong on Planet Debian - which is for many people the public face of
Debian.
To be clear, this means that as the Debian
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:04:05AM +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
I am really speechless The French seem to have a completely
different understanding of the English language used in all these
matters than almost every one else in the world. I guess it is really
time that Joss realizes
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