On Lu, 30 iun 14, 01:56:20, Thomas Goirand wrote:
You're not seriously suggesting dpkg would sneak a package on your
system behind your back, do you?
I believe he's only suggesting that having a package installed with a
Conflict: is harder to break (even by mistake) than just some apt
Hi Matthias (2014.06.26_08:38:09_+0200)
Of these, roughly 20% have switched to systemd. And they apparently did not
and do not have any problem with it, otherwise we'd hear about it. Here and
other places. Quite loudly.
Not necessarily.
My laptop won't boot with systemd, although other
On Sb, 28 iun 14, 21:42:47, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
Andrei POPESCU dixit:
Yes, I know everything in Debian is a package, but APT *is* the master
of all packages :p
Wrong:
• dpkg (directly or via dselect) does not use APT’s system
(well, not necessarily, anyway)
You're not seriously
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 10:01:00 +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
… We have decided to use systemd as the default. …
s/We have/The tech-ctte has/.
Regards,
Guillem
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Hi,
Guillem Jover:
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 10:01:00 +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
… We have decided to use systemd as the default. …
s/We have/The tech-ctte has/.
… and everybody else decided to not challenge their resolution,
at the very least. Anti-systemd(-author) rants nonwithstanding.
On 06/29/2014 05:21 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Sb, 28 iun 14, 21:42:47, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
Andrei POPESCU dixit:
Yes, I know everything in Debian is a package, but APT *is* the master
of all packages :p
Wrong:
• dpkg (directly or via dselect) does not use APT’s system
(well, not
On Jo, 26 iun 14, 14:33:49, Wookey wrote:
Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable
number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly
when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it from a
separate repo should not be necessary.
No need
On Sat, 2014-06-28 at 09:50 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Jo, 26 iun 14, 14:33:49, Wookey wrote:
Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable
number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly
when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to
❦ 28 juin 2014 10:56 +0200, Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com :
systemd-must-die_8_all.deb already conflicts with nine packages:
Conflicts: libpam-systemd, live-config-systemd, python-systemd, systemd,
systemd-cron, systemd-gui, systemd-shim, systemd-sysv, systemd-ui
Why systemd-shim?
On Sb, 28 iun 14, 10:56:24, Svante Signell wrote:
The disadvantage with this approach is that you need an entry for every
package you don't want installed.
No, you want to make use of the support for globs or regexes, see
apt_preferences(5).
systemd-must-die_8_all.deb already conflicts
Le samedi 28 juin 2014 à 11:08 +0200, Vincent Bernat a écrit :
Why systemd-shim?
Do you really need to ask why?
There’s systemd in the name, therefore it must be *evil*, man. It has to
be part of a conspiracy to take over the world and remove our freedom to
make all executables setuid root!
--
❦ 28 juin 2014 12:19 +0200, Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org :
Why systemd-shim?
Do you really need to ask why?
There’s systemd in the name, therefore it must be *evil*, man. It has to
be part of a conspiracy to take over the world and remove our freedom to
make all executables setuid
Andrei POPESCU dixit:
Yes, I know everything in Debian is a package, but APT *is* the master
of all packages :p
Wrong:
• dpkg (directly or via dselect) does not use APT’s system
(well, not necessarily, anyway)
• aptitude has been known to ignore the view dpkg/apt have
on the system, e.g.
+++ Marco d'Itri [2014-06-26 16:29 +0200]:
On Jun 26, Wookey woo...@wookware.org wrote:
Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable
number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly
when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it from
The interesting dependency chain is:
Simon, thank you very much for this mail and the two ones following it.
Your objectiveness and choice of words in this heated debate is really
appreciated!
Cheers,
Fabian
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Hi,
Norbert Preining:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrcshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1
Unfair - because it is in the most cases not on free will.
Everyone using Gnome -
Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 18:53 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
And logind replacements have not appeared yet, as expected.
Because this is a misstatement of the problem. Logind works systemd-shim
today.
If it works as well as logind without systemd as pid 1 in earlier
versions (leading
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 08:41:17AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 18:53 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
And logind replacements have not appeared yet, as expected.
Because this is a misstatement of the problem. Logind works systemd-shim
today.
If it works as
On 26 June 2014 01:36, Marco d'Itri m...@linux.it wrote:
I used the word Insidious as I would have use Stealth, because it's
happening slowly, without us noticing, that everything in Debian is
being locked with systemd. Soon, we'll have no choice.
This is why you should stop fighting: systemd
Hi,
Andrew Shadura:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+sysvinitshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%Y-%mbeenhere=1
Sorry, but this only demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about.
For a comparison
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-24 19:57 +0200]:
I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd
components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user being
aware.
Where is this package? I'm not finding it in testing or the pts?
Wookey
--
Principal hats: Linaro,
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:20 +0100, Wookey wrote:
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-24 19:57 +0200]:
I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd
components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user being
aware.
Where is this package? I'm not finding it in
+++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]:
Hi,
Andrew Shadura:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+sysvinitshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%Y-%mbeenhere=1
Sorry, but this only demonstrates that you
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:45 +0100, Wookey wrote:
+++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]:
Hi,
Which shows about a change from 'peak sysvinit-core' in mid-april:
Mid april Now
sysvinit-core:89% 81%
systemd-sysv: 6% 19%
A question: If you uninstall a
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-26 12:31 +0200]:
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:20 +0100, Wookey wrote:
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-24 19:57 +0200]:
I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd
components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user being
In other news for Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 02:33:49PM +0100, Wookey has been seen
typing:
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-26 12:31 +0200]:
Not in any official Debian repo unfortunately:
http://users.unixforge.de/~tglaser/debs/dists/etch/wtf/Pkgs/mirabilos-support/
Can it be uploaded please?
On Jun 26, Wookey woo...@wookware.org wrote:
Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable
number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly
when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it from a
apt-get install equivs
--
ciao,
Marco
On 06/25/2014 02:23 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Are you going to recommend a $package-must-die for each of them?
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by insidious reverse
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote:
Are you going to recommend a $package-must-die for each of them?
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by insidious reverse
Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 14:29 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by insidious reverse dependencies?
“Insidious reverse dependencies”?
You are
Hi,
Thomas Goirand:
On 06/25/2014 02:23 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Are you going to recommend a $package-must-die for each of them?
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by
On 06/25/2014 03:59 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 14:29 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by insidious reverse
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 22:01 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 06/25/2014 03:59 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
You are insinuating that people are surreptitiously adding dependencies
on systemd components their packages don’t need, just so that they get
installed on your system to piss you
On 25/06/14 15:43, Svante Signell wrote:
Regarding mate desktop policykit-1 build-depends on libsystemd-login-dev
only for linux-any. What functionality is missing for other
architectures?
The interesting dependency chain is:
policykit-1 Depends libpam-systemd [linux-any] (degraded
On Tue, 2014-06-24 at 20:23 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mardi 24 juin 2014 à 19:57 +0200, Svante Signell a écrit :
Are there any chances that some version of policykit-1 could stay free
from any *systemd* dependency?
PolicyKit needs a session tracking mechanism, and with ConsoleKit
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 17:38 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
On 25/06/14 15:43, Svante Signell wrote:
Regarding mate desktop policykit-1 build-depends on libsystemd-login-dev
only for linux-any. What functionality is missing for other
architectures?
The interesting dependency chain is:
On 25/06/14 19:51, Svante Signell wrote:
Looks like consolekit is the package fork if such a thing ever happens.
There are still patches, mainly for kFreeBSD, from 2013-2014 in the
freedesktop BTS since the last release. When was the Debian switch from
consolekit to policykit-1 made?
On 25/06/14 20:03, Svante Signell wrote:
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 17:38 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
Upstream developers in various projects increasingly oppose group-based
access, because membership of many desktop stuff groups essentially
means can ssh in and do bad things to a local user. For
Hi,
Thomas Goirand:
If you don't like that depencendy, it's your job to offer a patch
which supports an alternative to that maintainer.
It's not reasonable to tell I'm responsible for all of this.
This you was meant to refer to the collective set of people who want a
supported
Simon McVittie s...@debian.org writes:
Orthogonal to that, startx is basically terrible. It only works because
/usr/bin/X is setuid root, and that seems Bad™. Also, if you run it from
a virtual console, a locked X screensaver is worthless, because someone
can just switch virtual console with
On Jun 25, Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
I used the word Insidious as I would have use Stealth, because it's
happening slowly, without us noticing, that everything in Debian is
being locked with systemd. Soon, we'll have no choice.
This is why you should stop fighting: systemd has won.
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrcshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1
Unfair - because it is in the most cases not on free will.
Everyone using Gnome - and that are a lot of users
On 2014-06-25 14:03:20 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote:
This doesn't change anything else that you point out, but that's
why you run startx and then log out of the virtual console.
On my workstations and travel machines I have:
alias x='startxexit'
...in my ~/.bash_aliases file. Works
On Jun 26, Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrcshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1
Unfair - because it is in the most cases not on free
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 03:22:50AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Jun 26, Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote:
Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org writes:
On 06/25/2014 03:59 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 14:29 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always
On Sat, 2014-06-07 at 13:20 +, Mike Gabriel wrote:
Hi Gunnar,
The new LONG_DESCRIPTIONs start with:
The MATE Desktop Environment is the continuation of GNOME 2. It provides an
intuitive and attractive desktop environment using traditional metaphors for
Linux and other Unix-like
Le mardi 24 juin 2014 à 19:57 +0200, Svante Signell a écrit :
Are there any chances that some version of policykit-1 could stay free
from any *systemd* dependency?
PolicyKit needs a session tracking mechanism, and with ConsoleKit no
longer maintained, the only one available is systemd-logind.
Svante,
On 06/24/2014 07:57 PM, Svante Signell wrote:
I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd
components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user being
aware.
I'd appreciate if you kept your anti-systemd rants off this list.
Thanks!
Adrian
--
Hi Gunnar,
On Do 05 Jun 2014 15:33:23 CEST, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
Package: mate-desktop-environment
Version: 1.8.0+2~bpo70+1
Following up on the thread in the mailing list:
are there any reasons for the »strange« package description in
mate-desktop-environment (and more)
The MATE Desktop
Mike Gabriel dijo [Sat, Jun 07, 2014 at 01:20:59PM +]:
A fix for it has been uploaded just now.
The new LONG_DESCRIPTIONs start with:
The MATE Desktop Environment is the continuation of GNOME 2. It provides an
intuitive and attractive desktop environment using traditional metaphors
are there any reasons for the »strange« package description in
mate-desktop-environment (and more)
The MATE Desktop Environment, a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop
for users, using traditional computing desktop metaphor.
bye
Joe
Danish
Den
Hi Joe,
On Do 05 Jun 2014 14:03:13 CEST, Joe Dalton wrote:
are there any reasons for the »strange« package description in
mate-desktop-environment (and more)
The MATE Desktop Environment, a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop
for users, using traditional computing desktop metaphor.
On 2014-06-05 15:15, Mike Gabriel wrote:
I have adopted this a little self-ironic description from the meta
package mate-desktop-environment that has been provided on the
upstream package site so far.
The description comes from the first message in a forum about the fork:
Package: mate-desktop-environment
Version: 1.8.0+2~bpo70+1
Following up on the thread in the mailing list:
are there any reasons for the »strange« package description in
mate-desktop-environment (and more)
The MATE Desktop Environment, a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop
for users,
thanks,
I must agree with Gunnar. The self-ironic is fine in the original context
(forging), but not in the package descriptions.
bye
Joe
Den tors 5/6/14 skrev Mike Gabriel mike.gabr...@das-netzwerkteam.de:
Emne: Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully
This is great news. Thanks. MATE is for me the best choice.
Den tirs 3/6/14 skrev Mike Gabriel mike.gabr...@das-netzwerkteam.de:
Emne: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian
Til: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Cc:
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