On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 09:28:11PM +0300, Serge wrote:
2012/8/30 Wouter Verhelst wrote:
How do you suppose it's possible to undo arbitrary network
configuration done by arbitrary set of tools when there's no central
place to hold such information (and can't possibly be)?
Actually, the
Serge sergem...@gmail.com writes:
2012/8/30 Wouter Verhelst wrote:
How do you suppose it's possible to undo arbitrary network
configuration done by arbitrary set of tools when there's no central
place to hold such information (and can't possibly be)?
Actually, the kernel holds that
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 09:56:27AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le jeudi 30 août 2012 à 22:19 +0200, Wouter Verhelst a écrit :
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:44:11AM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
How do you suppose it's possible to undo arbitrary network
configuration done by arbitrary set
Le jeudi 30 août 2012 à 22:19 +0200, Wouter Verhelst a écrit :
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:44:11AM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
How do you suppose it's possible to undo arbitrary network
configuration done by arbitrary set of tools when there's no central
place to hold such information (and
On Fri, 2012-08-31 at 09:56 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le jeudi 30 août 2012 à 22:19 +0200, Wouter Verhelst a écrit :
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:44:11AM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
How do you suppose it's possible to undo arbitrary network
configuration done by arbitrary set of
2012/8/30 Wouter Verhelst wrote:
How do you suppose it's possible to undo arbitrary network
configuration done by arbitrary set of tools when there's no central
place to hold such information (and can't possibly be)?
Actually, the kernel holds that information. Any tool can just query the
2012/8/28 Ben Hutchings wrote:
It should not be that hard to fit them all.
All connections I can think of belong to one of two categories:
1. Permanent connections. Those are setup-and-forget connections.
Typical for servers and wired desktops. Can be managed with ifupdown.
2. Temporary
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:44:11AM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
How do you suppose it's possible to undo arbitrary network
configuration done by arbitrary set of tools when there's no central
place to hold such information (and can't possibly be)?
Actually, the kernel holds that information.
On 2012-08-28 22:41:38 +0300, Serge wrote:
All connections I can think of belong to one of two categories:
1. Permanent connections. Those are setup-and-forget connections.
Typical for servers and wired desktops. Can be managed with ifupdown.
2. Temporary connections. Those are
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
There's also usbnet, which is used when I connect my Nokia N900 to
my laptop. There must also be a fixed setup, but I haven't found a
solution to recognize my N900 with ifupdown (the MAC address changes
too often).
I'm using the NM
On 2012-08-29 19:17:36 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
There's also usbnet, which is used when I connect my Nokia N900 to
my laptop. There must also be a fixed setup, but I haven't found a
solution to recognize my N900 with ifupdown (the MAC
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:47:00 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
There's also usbnet, which is used when I connect my Nokia N900 to
my laptop. There must also be a fixed setup, but I haven't found a
solution to recognize my N900 with ifupdown (the MAC address changes
too often).
2012/8/20 Noel David Torres Taño wrote:
Have you all minded that there are several *different* use cases?
* Laptop user going here and there, sometimes with Wireless, sometimes
with cable, sometimes with USB stick
* Desktop user with home ADSL
* Server with several connections
Each use
On Tue, 2012-08-28 at 22:41 +0300, Serge wrote:
2012/8/20 Noel David Torres Taño wrote:
Have you all minded that there are several *different* use cases?
* Laptop user going here and there, sometimes with Wireless, sometimes
with cable, sometimes with USB stick
* Desktop user with
On 2012-08-20 13:08:53 +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
Why do you install gnome-core if you don't want the resulting
package mess?
If it isn't that important, I think the word essential shouldn't
be used.
--
Vincent Lefèvre vinc...@vinc17.net - Web: http://www.vinc17.net/
100% accessible validated
On 2012-08-24 15:03:49 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Fri, 2012-08-24 at 10:44 +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
Hello,
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:51:27 +0100
Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
What I mean is that this still happens:
# ifup eth0
...
# ifconfig eth0 down
Hello,
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:51:27 +0100
Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
What I mean is that this still happens:
# ifup eth0
...
# ifconfig eth0 down
# ifup eth0
ifup: interface eth0 already configured
Why should it happen otherwise? You did *NOT* deconfigure the interface.
Hello,
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:21:18 +0200
Mike Hommey m...@glandium.org wrote:
People talk about how ifupdown works well with other configuration
tools, unlike Network Manager. But it doesn't, it only knows how to
undo the configuration specified in /etc/network/interfaces.
ifupdown
On Fri, 2012-08-24 at 10:44 +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
Hello,
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:51:27 +0100
Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
What I mean is that this still happens:
# ifup eth0
...
# ifconfig eth0 down
# ifup eth0
ifup: interface eth0 already configured
Why
Hello,
On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:03:49 +0100
Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
There is, it's called the kernel.
No, there isn't, and there can't possibly be, as interface's
configuration isn't only what ifconfig/route/ip reports to you (which
is what kernel knows about it).
--
WBR,
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 04:18:12PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
Hello,
On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:03:49 +0100
Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
There is, it's called the kernel.
No, there isn't, and there can't possibly be, as interface's
configuration isn't only what
On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 13:08 +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
Debian need *both*, and any efforts in this area should be put into
making them interoperate.
That's my point! :-)
So for the curious amongst you... I've opened the following
ifupdown-plugin related bugs/improvement-ideas upstream:
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 07:59:00PM -0400, Chris Knadle wrote:
The first suggestion I have is to look at Wouter Verhelst's 'ipcfg' project
[1],
Thanks :-)
which he gave a talk about on the last day of DebConf12 [2], and which is
currently a work-in-progress, thus making it a good time for
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 07:59:00PM -0400, Chris Knadle wrote:
Related note: I likewise repeatedly have confusion over how to deal with
testing Network Status from within shell scripts for doing operations that
require network access. As a for instance a common suggestion for keeping
GPG keys up
On Monday, August 20, 2012 03:29:05, Stephan Seitz wrote:
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 07:59:00PM -0400, Chris Knadle wrote:
Related note: I likewise repeatedly have confusion over how to deal with
testing Network Status from within shell scripts for doing operations that
require network access.
Christoph Anton Mitterer cales...@scientia.net writes:
On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 19:41 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
NM, as a design goal, is not supposed to be able to manage every
possible configuration.
Well but then it shouldn't be kind of a default package.
No it shouldn't. And it isn't
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 01:08:53PM +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
Never mind wireless lan where you've got a well defined kernel API. Try
to configure a modern 3G/LTE modem using ifupdown, and you will see the
Is this something different from an UMTS usbstick? I plug it in, get
a /dev/ttypUSB0 and
On Aug 20, Stephan Seitz stse+deb...@fsing.rootsland.net wrote:
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 01:08:53PM +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
Never mind wireless lan where you've got a well defined kernel API. Try
to configure a modern 3G/LTE modem using ifupdown, and you will see the
Is this something
Stephan Seitz stse+deb...@fsing.rootsland.net writes:
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 01:08:53PM +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
Never mind wireless lan where you've got a well defined kernel API. Try
to configure a modern 3G/LTE modem using ifupdown, and you will see the
Is this something different from an
also sprach Paul Wise p...@debian.org [2012.08.20.0154 +0200]:
Please take over the netconf project and start implementing that
design in C,
Or get it working properly with Python, make use of the simplicity
of interpreted languages until the design is actually proven to
work, and then rewrite
On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 00:04 +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
Hello,
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 19:32:03 +0100
Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
3) ifupdown integration is really bad
ifupdown is really a good framework, it offers hooks and and is
properly integrated in many packages.
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 02:51:27PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
What I mean is that this still happens:
# ifup eth0
...
# ifconfig eth0 down
# ifup eth0
ifup: interface eth0 already configured
People talk about how ifupdown works well with other configuration
tools, unlike Network
On 08/20/2012 01:54 AM, Paul Wise wrote:
Please take over the netconf project and start implementing that
design in C, that would be much more productive than any new thread
about the current and previous deficiencies of NetworkManager.
Or just file bugs against ifupdown, the (new) upstream
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:21:18PM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 02:51:27PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
What I mean is that this still happens:
# ifup eth0
...
# ifconfig eth0 down
# ifup eth0
ifup: interface eth0 already configured
People talk about how
Have you all minded that there are several *different* use cases?
* Laptop user going here and there, sometimes with Wireless, sometimes with
cable, sometimes with USB stick
* Desktop user with home ADSL
* Server with several connections
Each use case has its own needs, and its own best tools.
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 02:19:19PM +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
Stephan Seitz stse+deb...@fsing.rootsland.net writes:
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 01:08:53PM +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
Never mind wireless lan where you've got a well defined kernel API. Try
to configure a modern 3G/LTE modem using
On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 09:18 +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
Or get it working properly with Python, make use of the simplicity
of interpreted languages until the design is actually proven to
work, and then rewrite it…
Ah, I thought it was further along than that.
--
bye,
pabs
On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 02:07 +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
Hey Ben.
On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 19:32 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
To allow users to connect to the NetworkManager daemon they have to be in
the
group netdev.
Like Vincent already pointed out, CK allows it, too.
Oops,
Hey.
I hope this won't become too much of a rant, but IMHO we long ago
crossed the point where something (well actually many things) would have
needed to be seriously done.
My grandparents always warned me about UNIX programs written in capital
letters ;-).
Seriously... I have nothing against a
On Aug 19, Christoph Anton Mitterer cales...@scientia.net wrote:
Where do I see the main problems of NM?
NM, as a design goal, is not supposed to be able to manage every
possible configuration.
I see no reason do /discourage/ it use: it has important use cases where
it works well, the problem
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 07:26:46PM +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
Until recently all that wasn't a big problem, because one was easily
able to simply not install NM, but nowadays more and more packages start
to depend on it (of those I know, most notably gnome-core) or at least
use it's
On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 19:26 +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
[...]
1) In parts it has some security issues.
- At least the default setting seems to be that any user can connect to
any network.
[...]
According to README.Debian:
To allow users to connect to the NetworkManager daemon they
❦ 19 août 2012 20:32 CEST, Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk :
1) In parts it has some security issues.
- At least the default setting seems to be that any user can connect to
any network.
[...]
According to README.Debian:
To allow users to connect to the NetworkManager daemon they have
Hello,
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 19:32:03 +0100
Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
3) ifupdown integration is really bad
ifupdown is really a good framework, it offers hooks and and is
properly integrated in many packages.
ifupdown *was* a good framework, but Linux moved on. ifupdown
Hi Stephan.
On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 19:35 +0200, Stephan Seitz wrote:
I don’t use NM, but I have it installed (you mentioned the dependencies).
I have a „exit 0” in the init script, so NM won’t be started.
Yeah,... or just disable it but then what's the point on it?! I mean
the basic idea
Hi Marco.
On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 19:41 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
NM, as a design goal, is not supposed to be able to manage every
possible configuration.
Well but then it shouldn't be kind of a default package. And yes, I
know, strictly speaking it's neither required nor essential.
But as I
Please take over the netconf project and start implementing that
design in C, that would be much more productive than any new thread
about the current and previous deficiencies of NetworkManager.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100109113017/http://netconf.alioth.debian.org/
--
bye,
pabs
On Sunday, August 19, 2012 13:26:46, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
Hey.
I hope this won't become too much of a rant, but IMHO we long ago
crossed the point where something (well actually many things) would have
needed to be seriously done.
My grandparents always warned me about UNIX
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Chris Knadle wrote:
require network access. As a for instance a common suggestion for keeping
GPG keys up to date is to set a 'gpg --referesh-keys' operation as a cron
I prefer this option for keeping my GPG keyring up to date:
Hey Ben.
On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 19:32 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
To allow users to connect to the NetworkManager daemon they have to be in the
group netdev.
Like Vincent already pointed out, CK allows it, too.
In principle nothing speaks generally against either of the two, but I
guess both
On 20.08.2012 02:07, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
But when I e.g. put WPA credentials into /e/n/interfaces and made the
file specifically readable by root and user foo only, then it still
exports that connection to all other users (e.g. being logged on
locally; at least per default).
That
Dear Michael.
On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 02:13 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
That is simply not true.
NM doesn't by default export any WPA secrets in /e/n/i to any user.
I'm not sure if you don't know any better or if you just want to spread FUD.
I specifcally wrote export _connection_ and not
On 20.08.2012 02:18, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 02:13 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
That is simply not true.
NM doesn't by default export any WPA secrets in /e/n/i to any user.
I'm not sure if you don't know any better or if you just want to spread FUD.
I specifcally
On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 02:41 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
Apparently it is still not clear to you: NM by *default* does not export
any wireless connections from /e/n/i to *any* user by the simple fact
that managed=false by *default*.
Well ok... but that's what one needs to set when one at least
On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 22:02:47 +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote:
But also:
Alternatively you can install the consolekit package which will
grant access for all locally logged in users.
ConsoleKit has already been dropped and deprecated by upstream:
On Sunday, August 19, 2012 20:41:47, Michael Biebl wrote:
[…]
I won't bother following up as I'm really tired of all this BS on
debian-devel regarding NM lately. Sorry.
My guess is, that this will be another of those pointless NM bashing
threads, where nothing useful comes out of it. Actually
❦ 20 août 2012 04:07 CEST, Guillem Jover guil...@debian.org :
But also:
Alternatively you can install the consolekit package which will
grant access for all locally logged in users.
ConsoleKit has already been dropped and deprecated by upstream:
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